Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I never said people are talking about book/movie Galadriel. You said that. Why are you projecting that back to me?

And no, this entire roundabout discussion is not about her portrayal in the show, it's about her characterization having similar problems as those other characters, which isn't actually discussing the show at all, it's externalizing the problems through other characters that are unrelated to the show completely.

Which is your point too isn't it? That Rey and Carol aren't Galadriel.

Yes I did bring up the book/movie and your response was “then let them” as if it wasn’t a rhetorical question.

And talking about the characterization of some one in a show and comparing them to other media is absolutely talking about a show.

Like really do you want to try and keep stretching what counts as talking about a show until you get to only direct scene descriptions count? Like you even edited in that “Galadriel's problematic writing is unique to Rings of Power” so Talking about said writing is absolutely talking about rings of power, lol.

[Triceron]

Says the person trying to stop someone from talking about it. Lmao. Just let them talk about it, right?

I'm not stopping anyone, I didn't even make the statement to anyone in particular. I just made an observation on how it's not actually relevant to talking about the show and the discussion is pointless. People can talk about pointless stuff, do you see me stopping anyone doing it?

I can still make the observation that it's pointless.

[Fortress of Arrogance]

Just as soon as you point where I said that you said that.

Let it be known and documented that you refused to back up your claim regarding me.

This is about your specific comments that you stated won't impact an adaptation being good.

I would like you to quote me on that. Specify, please.

Hence why those things shouldn't be brought up and discussion should just be on the things that do impact an adaptation being good or bad.

Did you not read what's been discussed in regards to the quality of the show in question?
Would you like to discuss some specific details?
If yes, what those would be?

[Triceron]

Like really do you want to try and keep stretching what counts as talking about a show until you get to only direct scene descriptions count?

Yes and making comparisons to Rey and Carol Danvers externalizes the problem beyond the show. It's making it an archetypical problem that exists outside the show.

Galadriel's problems aren't comparable to either character. You agree on this right?

Like you even edited in that “Galadriel's problematic writing is unique to Rings of Power” so Talking about said writing is absolutely talking about rings of power, lol.

Yes, because that's what the topic should be about. The show. Talking about Rey and Carol Danvers isn't about Rings of Power. Hell, if anything you agree with my point and are actively trying to steer it back to the show.

[rhorle]

Let it be known and documented that you refused to back up your claim regarding me.

I can't back up a claim I didn't make. You know exactly what comments of yours started this tangent so I'm not sure why you are now asking for a quote or playing dumb. Of course I've read what has been discussed in regards to the quality of the show. I haven't said that there was none of that so again this inquiry of yours is silly and based only in your head. What I said was to focus on that rather then comments about stuff you said wouldn't make an adaptation bad.

"expanding" doesn't necessarily mean "completely disregard all that's been done, all the lore, all the fluff, and push THE MESSAGE of the modern, so very diverse and tolerant times".

Could this have anything to do with that Jackson movies were good, dialogues were good, the plot was good and cohesive, and acting was good to stellar?

- - - Updated - - -

I'm not stopping anyone

You are literally trying to get someone to stop and applying it to a specific poster by continuing to argue with them about why they should stop. Lmao.

[bledgor]

Yes and making comparisons to Rey and Carol Danvers externalizes the problem beyond the show. It's making it an archetypical problem that exists outside the show.

Galadriel's problems aren't comparable to either character. You agree on this right?



Yes, because that's what the topic should be about. The show. I don't understand what you're lol'ing about.

Excuse me it is Galadriel, slayer of orcs, commander of the northern armies to you! How dare a mortal such as you speak about her this way!!!!

/s

But seriously the way she is in the show she would 100% say that.

Also for the love of everyone's sanity can we stop engaging the trolls?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Yes and making comparisons to Rey and Carol Danvers externalizes the problem beyond the show. It's making it an archetypical problem that exists outside the show.

Galadriel's problems aren't comparable to either character. You agree on this right?

Talking about problems you think apply to a show doesn’t mean you aren’t talking about a show. Like really talking about how the show has a revenge arc doesn’t mean your talking about the show because revenge arcs are also external to the show? Talking about dwarfs elfs or even enchanted rings in the show must also mean your not talking about the show because those are also things beyond the show.

And ya Galadriel isn’t like the other characters listed but that doesn’t some one who wrongly compares them isn’t talking about the show that’s just a ridiculous idea.

[Triceron]

You are literally trying to get someone to stop and applying it to a specific poster by continuing to argue with them about why they should stop. Lmao.

Who am I stopping? Tell me clearly which person(s).

[rhorle]

Who am I stopping? Tell me clearly which person(s).

You don't know who you are having a conversation with and who you originally quoted? Wow. Lmao.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I'm not stopping anyone, I didn't even make the statement to anyone in particular. I just made an observation on how it's not actually relevant to talking about the show and the discussion is pointless. People can talk about pointless stuff, do you see me stopping anyone doing it?

I can still make the observation that it's pointless.

We had a whole back and forth about poeple taking about the show, remember where you asked what there was even to talk about in the last ten pages and I gave you a Hefty list of what people found worth taking about out of just five pages?

Why pretend like you weren’t jabbing at that exchange any one who read it knows exactly what your doing.

- - - Updated - - -

Also for the love of everyone's sanity can we stop engaging the trolls?

If you don’t want people to engage with trolls why reply to Triceron your just propagating it.

Heh.

[Triceron]

Talking about problems you think apply to a show doesn’t mean you aren’t talking about a show. Like really talking about how the show has a revenge arc doesn’t mean your talking about the show because revenge arcs are also external to the show? Talking about dwarfs elfs or even enchanted rings in the show must also mean your not talking about the show because those are also things beyond the show.

And ya Galadriel isn’t like the other characters listed but that doesn’t some one who wrongly compares them isn’t talking about the show that’s just a ridiculous idea.

But that's exactly what happened.

No one initiated a direct comparison to Galadriel or Rings of Power in this particular instance. It was someone externalizing the argument by saying the arguments could be swapped with Rey or Carol Danvers and the criticisms are generic and applicable and somehow wrong all the same on principle.

Find a random criticism of Galadriel and replace her name with Rey Skywalker or Carol Danvers and it's functionally the same criticism you can find in the Marvel and Star Wars threads. Bad acting and writing and they're generally dislikable characters as a whole. Sound about right? Yet, you can never actually state in your own words what any of that means.

No one has actually MADE that comment here. It was someone's random example which for some reason is being argued back and forth here without actually being very relevant to the actual show at all. Since no one actually made that comparison here in the first place. I'm actually not sure why people are then arguing about a statement that wasn't actually made, whether in defense or trying to debunk or whatever.

- - - Updated - - -

You don't know who you are having a conversation with and who you originally quoted? Wow. Lmao.

Considering I'm denying what you're accusing me of doing, yes, I wouldn't know who you're talking about that I'm silencing, because I'm even quoting you now and I haven't told you to stop posting have I? Nor have I told anyone else I've replied to recently.

Can you point out who I'm trying to silence? You can't? You're full of bullshit then.
Again, who am I silencing here?


- - - Updated - - -

We had a whole back and forth about poeple taking about the show, remember where you asked what there was even to talk about in the last ten pages and I gave you a Hefty list of what people found worth taking about out of just five pages?

Why pretend like you weren’t jabbing at that exchange any one who read it knows exactly what your doing.

Why are you taking offense to it? Honest question. I didn't say anything that was specific to you, otherwise I would have outright quoted and replied you.

I don't think there's any point to talking about Rey and Carol Danvers when everyone arguing isn't even basing it on any actual criticism made here. It was some throwaway bad example someone put out, a bad example that is intentionally opinionated in the first place.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

But that's exactly what happened.

No one initiated a direct comparison to Galadriel or Rings of Power in this particular instance. It was someone externalizing the argument by saying the arguments could be swapped with Rey or Carol Danvers and the criticisms are generic and applicable and somehow wrong all the same on principle.

The first post was some one saying arguments could be swapped.

Find a random criticism of Galadriel and replace her name with Rey Skywalker or Carol Danvers and it's functionally the same criticism you can find in the Marvel and Star Wars threads. Bad acting and writing and they're generally dislikable characters as a whole. Sound about right? Yet, you can never actually state in your own words what any of that means.

Witch was then followed by another person saying that’s because they are all the same character which is a direct comparison.

They are all the same character. The only way they know how to write female heros is to take the worst traits of men, package them into a female form. Whether it be Rey, Carol, Jen Walters or Galadriel, they are all the same character, played by different actresses doing their best impersonation of a generic male hero with what thye assume generic male hero traits are.

Which was then doubled down on.

That is what you are TOLD these characters are like.... their actions do not tell that story, their actions and their behaviors are so shockingly similar that its like they all were cut from the same mold with different colored clothes tossed on them.

Almost like they are barbies, without any of the appeal of barbies.

- - - Updated - - -

Why are you taking offense to it? Honest question. I didn't say anything that was specific to you, otherwise I would have outright quoted and replied you.

I don't think there's any point to talking about Rey and Carol Danvers when everyone arguing isn't even basing it on any actual criticism made here. It was some throwaway bad example someone put out, a bad example that is intentionally opinionated in the first place.

I’m not taking offence I’m just stating it as it is even if you want to play silly buggers and pretend it’s other wise.

[Triceron]

The first post was some one saying arguments could be swapped.



Witch was then followed by another person saying that’s because they are all the same character which is a direct comparison.



Which was then doubled down on.

And so you don't understand the context of my observation that the whole ordeal is pointless and not actually talking about the show?

Look at Gumble's responses. They aren't actually about Rings of Power. They're a very broad assessment of characterization that isn't specific to any one show. This is an archetypical issue that is being talked about beyond the show, as though one were to even exist. "They are barbies without any of the appeal of barbies" is not a statement about the show, it's a much broader, externalized context. Like taking Rings of Power discussion into talking about broader problems with an entire genre or medium, we wouldn't actually be talking about the show any more. It would relate to the show, but it isn't about the show.

In reality, the show's problems are unique to the show. WHich is why I said I don't even know why this is being discussed.

I literally commented after coming back to this thread and seeing people talk around the show, rather than actually talking about it. I'm not sure why you think this is a jab at you, this is literally the way the discussions you quoted play out and it isn't actually about the show.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

And so you don't understand the context of my observation that the whole ordeal is pointless and not actually talking about the show?

Look at Gumble's responses. They aren't actually about Rings of Power. They're a very broad assessment of characterization that isn't specific to any one show. This is an archetypical issue that is being talked about beyond the show, as though one were to even exist.

In reality, the show's problems are unique to the show. WHich is why I said I don't even know why this is being discussed.

I literally commented after coming back to this thread and seeing people talk around the show, rather than actually talking about it. I'm not sure why you think this is a jab at you, this is literally the way the discussions you quoted play out and it isn't actually about the show.

I understand the context perfectly you made abunch of nonsense claims about how no one was talking about the show even saying “look at the last 10 pages no one is talking about it” you were wrong and then thought you saw an chance to cross your arms and say you were right and when pushed on that you resorted to saying comparing characters from a show doesn’t actually mean your talking about the show as if the characters are just ideas floating in the air not actually linked to any thing or saying they are the same characters and there actions are all similar isn’t a direct comparison.

[Triceron]

I understand the context perfectly you made abunch of nonsense claims about how no one was talking about the show even saying “look at the last 10 pages no one is talking about it” you were wrong and then thought you saw an change to cross your arms and say you were right and when pushed on that you resorted to saying comparing characters from a show doesn’t actually mean your talking about the show as if the characters are just ideas floating in the air not actually linked to any thing.

Er, I hadn't replied to you on that exchange because it was literally a long weekend here and I literally just caught up with the goings on in the thread.

If you want to carry on that exchange, then sure, I can merely brush off what you listed as being the 30% talk about the show while 70% is still talking about stuff around the show. Just like it happens to be in most other threads here.

And most of what you posted consists of how many posts overall in the 10 pages you sifted through? It's usually a few posts talking about it, then the conversation ends quick.

And Nielsen ratings discussions are only partially talking about the show, considering much of the back and forth in that was about how the system works or is flawed or how people are using the data incorrectly, more than actually applying it to the show. But hey, if you think that's all related to the show, then I'll agree to disagree with you on this front. Just like I don't think the Rey/Carol Danvers thing is really related to the show at all either. I disagree that it is relevant to discussing the show, because I think the show's problems are unique to itself.

Hell, this exchange right now is not about the show either. But I'm sure we will also disagree on this point.

-edit-
And again, I made that original comment because like 10 different people all jumped into that same topic, throwing out comments that weren't relevant to the show at all. And it all sourced to one throwaway bad example that was intentionally opinionated for the sake of externalizing the argument. This is even confirmed a couple posts below. The whole ordeal is about diversity criticisms, not anything specific to RoP.

[downnola]

Not sure why people are bringing Rey and Carol Danvers into this at all.

It's like people aren't even talking about the show any more. Weird.

I explained why I made the comparison. Those characters are routinely mocked as being forced into stories for the sake of diversity. If we're going to pretend a large portion of the criticism these shows get isn't due to this fact then you're simply not being honest about the nature of this 300+ page thread.

[Fortress of Arrogance]

I can't back up a claim I didn't make. You know exactly what comments of yours started this tangent so I'm not sure why you are now asking for a quote or playing dumb. Of course I've read what has been discussed in regards to the quality of the show. I haven't said that there was none of that so again this inquiry of yours is silly and based only in your head. What I said was to focus on that rather then comments about stuff you said wouldn't make an adaptation bad.

None of that?
As in, you disagree that there are some underlying problems with Rings of Poo regarding acting, dialogues, plot?

Thank you for quoting me, but I do not see how these two quotes have anything to do with your very based accusation of me starting a tangent.
If you want to discuss the show and it's pros and cons, I would very much like and invite you to do so.

[Triceron]

I explained why I made the comparison. Those characters are routinely mocked as being forced into stories for the sake of diversity. If we're going to pretend a large portion of the criticism these shows get isn't due to this fact then you're simply not being honest about the nature of this 300+ page thread.

I'm not pretending anything.

I'm aware that a large portion of the criticism these shows get are purely predicated on the diversity topic, most of which happened before the show even came out. But I'm not sure why this is making its rounds again oddly enough, since it was quite a dead horse for about a solid month or show as the show reached its current episodes. Can't say I've been paying attention too closely to all the bullshit that happens here, there's only so much bullshit I can keep track of really.

[Xath]

Serious question for those who keep defending the lack of anything happening of import going into the final episode do you have infinite time on your hands? Most of us have limited time if a show can't hook you in the first six hours which is basically the run time of two lotr movies why in the world would people continue to watch it. You keep claiming the story is barely starting the first season is basically done at this point in the LoTR trilogy we are at the prep for the battle of Helm's deep possibly slightly further.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

If you want to carry on that exchange, then sure, I can merely brush off what you listed as being the 30% talk about the show while 70% is still talking about stuff around the show. Just like it happens to be in most other threads here.

And most of what you posted consists of how many posts overall in the 10 pages you sifted through? It's usually a few posts talking about it, then the conversation ends quick.

That was from just five pages and with a quick glance through excluding the page that is mostly our back and forth each page has 4-6 post truly unrelated to the show out of the default layout of 19 post per page.

But given that you think comparing characters from the show isn’t actually talking about the show I’m willing to bet you could up that number to what ever you wanted by just saying it’s all talking around the show.