1. #6581
    Not sure why people are bringing Rey and Carol Danvers into this at all.

    It's like people aren't even talking about the show any more. Weird.

  2. #6582
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Not sure why people are bringing Rey and Carol Danvers into this at all.

    It's like people aren't even talking about the show any more. Weird.
    People are comparing book or movie Galadriel to them then?
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  3. #6583
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    People are comparing book or movie Galadriel to them then?
    Then let them? I mean, are they gonna change their minds because you explain it differently somehow?

    The problem with arguing against something like this is that it's ultimately subjective anyways. There's no point in trying to prove it wrong, because there's nothing to prove wrong, it's pretty much a statement rooted in belief more than anything based on fact.

    Galadriel's problematic writing is unique to Rings of Power, really.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2022-10-11 at 04:15 PM.

  4. #6584
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Then let them? I mean, are they gonna change their minds because you explain it differently somehow?
    You….missed the point. People aren’t talking about book/movie Galadriel, there talking about her portrayal in the show and how her characterization is like others characters, ie talking about the show.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  5. #6585
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    You….missed the point. People aren’t talking about book/movie Galadriel, there talking about her portrayal in the show and how her characterization is like others characters, ie talking about the show.
    I never said people are talking about book/movie Galadriel. You said that. Why are you projecting that back to me?

    And no, this entire roundabout discussion is not about her portrayal in the show, it's about her characterization having similar problems as those other characters, which isn't actually discussing the show at all, it's externalizing the problems through other characters that are unrelated to the show completely.

    Which is your point too isn't it? That Rey and Carol aren't Galadriel.

  6. #6586
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fortress of Arrogance View Post
    So, by your admission, you did read all the criticism. I would like you to point out where did I say plot/acting/dialogues/casting do not have an impact on an adaptation being good or bad.
    Just as soon as you point where I said that you said that. This is about your specific comments that you stated won't impact an adaptation being good. Hence why those things shouldn't be brought up and discussion should just be on the things that do impact an adaptation being good or bad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Then let them?
    Says the person trying to stop someone from talking about it. Lmao. Just let them talk about it, right?
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  7. #6587
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    I never said people are talking about book/movie Galadriel. You said that. Why are you projecting that back to me?

    And no, this entire roundabout discussion is not about her portrayal in the show, it's about her characterization having similar problems as those other characters, which isn't actually discussing the show at all, it's externalizing the problems through other characters that are unrelated to the show completely.

    Which is your point too isn't it? That Rey and Carol aren't Galadriel.
    Yes I did bring up the book/movie and your response was “then let them” as if it wasn’t a rhetorical question.

    And talking about the characterization of some one in a show and comparing them to other media is absolutely talking about a show.

    Like really do you want to try and keep stretching what counts as talking about a show until you get to only direct scene descriptions count? Like you even edited in that “Galadriel's problematic writing is unique to Rings of Power” so Talking about said writing is absolutely talking about rings of power, lol.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  8. #6588
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Says the person trying to stop someone from talking about it. Lmao. Just let them talk about it, right?
    I'm not stopping anyone, I didn't even make the statement to anyone in particular. I just made an observation on how it's not actually relevant to talking about the show and the discussion is pointless. People can talk about pointless stuff, do you see me stopping anyone doing it?

    I can still make the observation that it's pointless.

  9. #6589
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Just as soon as you point where I said that you said that.
    Let it be known and documented that you refused to back up your claim regarding me.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    This is about your specific comments that you stated won't impact an adaptation being good.
    I would like you to quote me on that. Specify, please.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Hence why those things shouldn't be brought up and discussion should just be on the things that do impact an adaptation being good or bad.
    Did you not read what's been discussed in regards to the quality of the show in question?
    Would you like to discuss some specific details?
    If yes, what those would be?

  10. #6590
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Like really do you want to try and keep stretching what counts as talking about a show until you get to only direct scene descriptions count?
    Yes and making comparisons to Rey and Carol Danvers externalizes the problem beyond the show. It's making it an archetypical problem that exists outside the show.

    Galadriel's problems aren't comparable to either character. You agree on this right?

    Like you even edited in that “Galadriel's problematic writing is unique to Rings of Power” so Talking about said writing is absolutely talking about rings of power, lol.
    Yes, because that's what the topic should be about. The show. Talking about Rey and Carol Danvers isn't about Rings of Power. Hell, if anything you agree with my point and are actively trying to steer it back to the show.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2022-10-11 at 04:35 PM.

  11. #6591
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fortress of Arrogance View Post
    Let it be known and documented that you refused to back up your claim regarding me.
    I can't back up a claim I didn't make. You know exactly what comments of yours started this tangent so I'm not sure why you are now asking for a quote or playing dumb. Of course I've read what has been discussed in regards to the quality of the show. I haven't said that there was none of that so again this inquiry of yours is silly and based only in your head. What I said was to focus on that rather then comments about stuff you said wouldn't make an adaptation bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortress of Arrogance View Post
    "expanding" doesn't necessarily mean "completely disregard all that's been done, all the lore, all the fluff, and push THE MESSAGE of the modern, so very diverse and tolerant times".
    Quote Originally Posted by Fortress of Arrogance View Post
    Could this have anything to do with that Jackson movies were good, dialogues were good, the plot was good and cohesive, and acting was good to stellar?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    I'm not stopping anyone
    You are literally trying to get someone to stop and applying it to a specific poster by continuing to argue with them about why they should stop. Lmao.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  12. #6592
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Yes and making comparisons to Rey and Carol Danvers externalizes the problem beyond the show. It's making it an archetypical problem that exists outside the show.

    Galadriel's problems aren't comparable to either character. You agree on this right?



    Yes, because that's what the topic should be about. The show. I don't understand what you're lol'ing about.
    Excuse me it is Galadriel, slayer of orcs, commander of the northern armies to you! How dare a mortal such as you speak about her this way!!!!

    /s

    But seriously the way she is in the show she would 100% say that.

    Also for the love of everyone's sanity can we stop engaging the trolls?
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    It's a strange and illogical world where not wanting your 10 year old daughter looking at female-identifying pre-op penises at the YMCA could feasibly be considered transphobic.

  13. #6593
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Yes and making comparisons to Rey and Carol Danvers externalizes the problem beyond the show. It's making it an archetypical problem that exists outside the show.

    Galadriel's problems aren't comparable to either character. You agree on this right?
    Talking about problems you think apply to a show doesn’t mean you aren’t talking about a show. Like really talking about how the show has a revenge arc doesn’t mean your talking about the show because revenge arcs are also external to the show? Talking about dwarfs elfs or even enchanted rings in the show must also mean your not talking about the show because those are also things beyond the show.

    And ya Galadriel isn’t like the other characters listed but that doesn’t some one who wrongly compares them isn’t talking about the show that’s just a ridiculous idea.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  14. #6594
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    You are literally trying to get someone to stop and applying it to a specific poster by continuing to argue with them about why they should stop. Lmao.
    Who am I stopping? Tell me clearly which person(s).

  15. #6595
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Who am I stopping? Tell me clearly which person(s).
    You don't know who you are having a conversation with and who you originally quoted? Wow. Lmao.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  16. #6596
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    I'm not stopping anyone, I didn't even make the statement to anyone in particular. I just made an observation on how it's not actually relevant to talking about the show and the discussion is pointless. People can talk about pointless stuff, do you see me stopping anyone doing it?

    I can still make the observation that it's pointless.
    We had a whole back and forth about poeple taking about the show, remember where you asked what there was even to talk about in the last ten pages and I gave you a Hefty list of what people found worth taking about out of just five pages?

    Why pretend like you weren’t jabbing at that exchange any one who read it knows exactly what your doing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    Also for the love of everyone's sanity can we stop engaging the trolls?
    If you don’t want people to engage with trolls why reply to Triceron your just propagating it.

    Heh.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  17. #6597
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Talking about problems you think apply to a show doesn’t mean you aren’t talking about a show. Like really talking about how the show has a revenge arc doesn’t mean your talking about the show because revenge arcs are also external to the show? Talking about dwarfs elfs or even enchanted rings in the show must also mean your not talking about the show because those are also things beyond the show.

    And ya Galadriel isn’t like the other characters listed but that doesn’t some one who wrongly compares them isn’t talking about the show that’s just a ridiculous idea.
    But that's exactly what happened.

    No one initiated a direct comparison to Galadriel or Rings of Power in this particular instance. It was someone externalizing the argument by saying the arguments could be swapped with Rey or Carol Danvers and the criticisms are generic and applicable and somehow wrong all the same on principle.

    Find a random criticism of Galadriel and replace her name with Rey Skywalker or Carol Danvers and it's functionally the same criticism you can find in the Marvel and Star Wars threads. Bad acting and writing and they're generally dislikable characters as a whole. Sound about right? Yet, you can never actually state in your own words what any of that means.

    No one has actually MADE that comment here. It was someone's random example which for some reason is being argued back and forth here without actually being very relevant to the actual show at all. Since no one actually made that comparison here in the first place. I'm actually not sure why people are then arguing about a statement that wasn't actually made, whether in defense or trying to debunk or whatever.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    You don't know who you are having a conversation with and who you originally quoted? Wow. Lmao.
    Considering I'm denying what you're accusing me of doing, yes, I wouldn't know who you're talking about that I'm silencing, because I'm even quoting you now and I haven't told you to stop posting have I? Nor have I told anyone else I've replied to recently.

    Can you point out who I'm trying to silence? You can't? You're full of bullshit then.
    Again, who am I silencing here?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    We had a whole back and forth about poeple taking about the show, remember where you asked what there was even to talk about in the last ten pages and I gave you a Hefty list of what people found worth taking about out of just five pages?

    Why pretend like you weren’t jabbing at that exchange any one who read it knows exactly what your doing.
    Why are you taking offense to it? Honest question. I didn't say anything that was specific to you, otherwise I would have outright quoted and replied you.

    I don't think there's any point to talking about Rey and Carol Danvers when everyone arguing isn't even basing it on any actual criticism made here. It was some throwaway bad example someone put out, a bad example that is intentionally opinionated in the first place.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2022-10-11 at 05:14 PM.

  18. #6598
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    But that's exactly what happened.

    No one initiated a direct comparison to Galadriel or Rings of Power in this particular instance. It was someone externalizing the argument by saying the arguments could be swapped with Rey or Carol Danvers and the criticisms are generic and applicable and somehow wrong all the same on principle.
    The first post was some one saying arguments could be swapped.

    Quote Originally Posted by downnola View Post
    Find a random criticism of Galadriel and replace her name with Rey Skywalker or Carol Danvers and it's functionally the same criticism you can find in the Marvel and Star Wars threads. Bad acting and writing and they're generally dislikable characters as a whole. Sound about right? Yet, you can never actually state in your own words what any of that means.
    Witch was then followed by another person saying that’s because they are all the same character which is a direct comparison.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gumble View Post
    They are all the same character. The only way they know how to write female heros is to take the worst traits of men, package them into a female form. Whether it be Rey, Carol, Jen Walters or Galadriel, they are all the same character, played by different actresses doing their best impersonation of a generic male hero with what thye assume generic male hero traits are.
    Which was then doubled down on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gumble View Post
    That is what you are TOLD these characters are like.... their actions do not tell that story, their actions and their behaviors are so shockingly similar that its like they all were cut from the same mold with different colored clothes tossed on them.

    Almost like they are barbies, without any of the appeal of barbies.
    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Why are you taking offense to it? Honest question. I didn't say anything that was specific to you, otherwise I would have outright quoted and replied you.

    I don't think there's any point to talking about Rey and Carol Danvers when everyone arguing isn't even basing it on any actual criticism made here. It was some throwaway bad example someone put out, a bad example that is intentionally opinionated in the first place.
    I’m not taking offence I’m just stating it as it is even if you want to play silly buggers and pretend it’s other wise.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  19. #6599
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    The first post was some one saying arguments could be swapped.



    Witch was then followed by another person saying that’s because they are all the same character which is a direct comparison.



    Which was then doubled down on.
    And so you don't understand the context of my observation that the whole ordeal is pointless and not actually talking about the show?

    Look at Gumble's responses. They aren't actually about Rings of Power. They're a very broad assessment of characterization that isn't specific to any one show. This is an archetypical issue that is being talked about beyond the show, as though one were to even exist. "They are barbies without any of the appeal of barbies" is not a statement about the show, it's a much broader, externalized context. Like taking Rings of Power discussion into talking about broader problems with an entire genre or medium, we wouldn't actually be talking about the show any more. It would relate to the show, but it isn't about the show.

    In reality, the show's problems are unique to the show. WHich is why I said I don't even know why this is being discussed.

    I literally commented after coming back to this thread and seeing people talk around the show, rather than actually talking about it. I'm not sure why you think this is a jab at you, this is literally the way the discussions you quoted play out and it isn't actually about the show.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2022-10-11 at 05:07 PM.

  20. #6600
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    And so you don't understand the context of my observation that the whole ordeal is pointless and not actually talking about the show?

    Look at Gumble's responses. They aren't actually about Rings of Power. They're a very broad assessment of characterization that isn't specific to any one show. This is an archetypical issue that is being talked about beyond the show, as though one were to even exist.

    In reality, the show's problems are unique to the show. WHich is why I said I don't even know why this is being discussed.

    I literally commented after coming back to this thread and seeing people talk around the show, rather than actually talking about it. I'm not sure why you think this is a jab at you, this is literally the way the discussions you quoted play out and it isn't actually about the show.
    I understand the context perfectly you made abunch of nonsense claims about how no one was talking about the show even saying “look at the last 10 pages no one is talking about it” you were wrong and then thought you saw an chance to cross your arms and say you were right and when pushed on that you resorted to saying comparing characters from a show doesn’t actually mean your talking about the show as if the characters are just ideas floating in the air not actually linked to any thing or saying they are the same characters and there actions are all similar isn’t a direct comparison.
    Last edited by Lorgar Aurelian; 2022-10-11 at 05:17 PM.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

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