Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[NineSpine]

"expanding" doesn't necessarily mean "completely disregard all that's been done, all the lore, all the fluff, and push THE MESSAGE of the modern, so very diverse and tolerant times".

Don't say Tolkien would never allow people to expand on his work, and then when proven wrong shift the goalpost to "He would never allow people to expand his work in ways that upset terminally online man-babies." Those aren't the same point.

He SPECIFICALLY states in that quote that people would expand on the parts of hiss tories he only "sketched", which is in direct opposition to what you are saying. The truth is that you know fuck all about Tolkien and you know fuck all about what he envisioned for his work.

[Gumble]

Jen Walters has deep insecurity issues and just wants to lead a normal life as a lawyer.

Rey has trouble letting go of a fantasy of her Parants coming back and desperately reaches out for any connections to other people she can find to fill that void.

Galadriel has an all consuming need for revenge that leads her to put her self and others at risk.

Carol is all about breaking limits others have put on her.

These characters aren’t any thing like each other’s in any meaningful way, they all have vastly different attributes goals and passions then each other.

That is what you are TOLD these characters are like.... their actions do not tell that story, their actions and their behaviors are so shockingly similar that its like they all were cut from the same mold with different colored clothes tossed on them.

Almost like they are barbies, without any of the appeal of barbies.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

But...they're all women. Clearly that means they're all the same. :thinking:


It's strange that I'm still surprised at just how shallow the analysis of people like this is. You'd think I'd be used to it by now, but when even I (a world-class idiot) can figure out these simple narrative/character ideas...I assume that everyone else can as well. And yet, here we are.

It’s pretty ridiculous how clueless some people just be for these comparisons ya.

Like really “I just want to live a normal life and who doesn’t any one like normal Jen” is the same character as “know the darkness is still out there and won’t stop until I find it” Galadriel?

If I didn’t see it here I’d never think any one could actually think something so silly.

[Fortress of Arrogance]

But...they're all women. Clearly that means they're all the same. :thinking:


It's strange that I'm still surprised at just how shallow the analysis of people like this is. You'd think I'd be used to it by now, but when even I (a world-class idiot) can figure out these simple narrative/character ideas...I assume that everyone else can as well. And yet, here we are.

Can you figure out if the showrunners succeeded with the way they pictured Electrodriel?

Don't say Tolkien would never allow people to expand on his work, and then when proven wrong shift the goalpost to "He would never allow people to expand his work in ways that upset terminally online man-babies." Those aren't the same point.

Sure thing, thing.
Now bye, Felicia.

[Myradin]

That is what you are TOLD these characters are like.... their actions do not tell that story, their actions and their behaviors are so shockingly similar that its like they all were cut from the same mold with different colored clothes tossed on them.

Almost like they are barbies, without any of the appeal of barbies.

I can't say I agree with this, beyond having not enjoyed all but Jen Walters (who I find rather fun to watch), I don't see what they all share in common as characters.

[NineSpine]

Can you figure out if the showrunners succeeded with the way they pictured Electrodriel?

Sure thing, thing.
Now bye, Felicia.

You literally stated that he would only allow people to adapt his specific work and not allow them to flesh out aspects he didn't fully detail himself, and the quote says that he wanted people to expand the aspects he did not finish. He says he left those there on purpose for other people to flesh out.

You just don't know what you are talking about, and instead of being a man, a grown up, and saying "Shit, I never saw that quote", you are trying to appear on top with little cute quips. It's pathetic and it fools absolutely nobody.

[Kumorii]

Sure.

In my country, we have this famous film translator by the "Goblin" moniker. He is very proficient at translating movies in a certain, funny manner, and he coined Galadriel as "Electrodrill" when he made a funny-comedic translation of the LOTR trilogy, and this mockname really grew on me.

Ah that's fair. At least i wasn't supposed to understand it

[Lorgar Aurelian]

That is what you are TOLD these characters are like.... their actions do not tell that story, their actions and their behaviors are so shockingly similar that its like they all were cut from the same mold with different colored clothes tossed on them.

Almost like they are barbies, without any of the appeal of barbies.

No this is what you are explicitly shown about the characters.

Jen ditches Bruce’s super hero training saying she doesn’t plan to be on and then literally goes to a therapy session and breaks down about how people only care about she hulk.

Rey tries to ditch the rebellion to go back to waiting for her Parants and latches onto Han Finn and kylo almost instantly to replace the family that left her.

Galadriel Leads her men to the point of abandoning her due to her lack of care and then jumps into the ocean with no actual way to get back safely.

Carol has a bloody montage of her breaking the limits others set for her.

There actions and behaviours are nothing like each other’s and you’d have to be blind to think theses differences are just told to you.

[Fortress of Arrogance]

Ah that's fair. At least i wasn't supposed to understand it

Tis' okay
Sorry if these nicknames seem off or incomprehensible at times.
I think I use them as a coping mechanism of sorts to somehow vent my disdain towards some of the characters without overstepping the lines, like Inkwell, for example.

[downnola]

Mhm, I think you are the clueless one. They have the rights to the 3 movies and the books they are based on, plus the appendices. They specifically do not have the rights of the Simarillion, which is the the guide to the Second Age. That is the entire reason why they constantly have to make shit up.

And seriously. They gave the Tolkien family millions for those rights. As if those folks would then care enough to actually veto all the changes that were made... especially since... just imagine what would have happened if the people had gone and vetoed the whole "reflection of the world we live in today" changes. Probably the militant woke crowd would have burned their houses down for being racist misogynists.

The problem with this show and with some others like She-Hulk is that they know they can't write worth shit. So in an effort to create a shield against critics, they included completely unexplained diversity and changed beloved characters like Galadriel to reflect our current world and thus pissed off the people who actually care about the lore. Then they pointed at the Lore-nerds and called them racists for demanding that diversity be explained and rooted in the lore, creating the perfect defense against all critics. Because you do not have to answer to someone that you have declared a racist.

And thanks to people like you, this strategy is working perfectly. If you critize She-Hulk, you are a misogynist, if you critize Rings, you are a racist and no matter how well founded the criticism is, no one is listening anymore. It is an obvious tactic on behalve of the showrunners, just why you are playing into their hands is beyond me.
Do you think they need your moral support to feel better about themselves when they smoke the millions that they got for writing this catastrophe? Or do you - actually - think they care about diversity? Because that would just be sad. They are manipulating you openly and you are letting them.

Now all this isn't to say that you cannot make a fantasy show with diversity, but you need to work it inside the lore. GoTh had a ton of actors with different skin colours, but they did not just throw those in where it made no sense. The actors were chosen based on the climate of the countries their characters came from. Hence why - to simplify - the North in general had white actors while the southern parts where it is hotter and the sun was shining more, darker complexions were common.

This is logical and completely alright, no one had a problem with it.

The problems start when a Dwarf that lives under a mountain, about as far removed from sunshine as is possible, has a dark complexion for no reason other then unexplained pandering to the woke crowd.
If they truely were so oblivious that they did not see these issues coming, then they are idiots and should never have been given the job to write such a high stakes, high cost project. But I think they were fully aware of the problem that would arise. They just didn't care, since they never cared about writing a good show.
They are blatantly getting rich from the climate created by Twitter and the woke movement in which you can get any low-quality garbage streamed to the world as long as you include enough feminism and diversity and if people don't like it, well, then they must be hating women and/or be racists.

Unless I'm mistaken, We're not talking about a series based on the First Age and prior. The chapters that lay out the Second Age amount to 50ish pages. That book is not the only reference to the Second Age in Tolkien's work. They have plenty of material in the books they have the rights for to tell this story. So again, the idea that they're making a series from a book they can't legally reference is moronic and not true.

I don't care if people like this show or not. I don't care if people don't like She-Hulk, either. What I don't like is lazy and loud opinions that amount to nothing more than thinly-veiled bigotry. Whenever I see people who are bashing the show use culture warrior buzzwords and terms like "woke brigade' or "militant woke crowd" simply because they cast a black actor or decided to tell the backstory of a female character, it's blatantly obvious where the root of this criticism is coming from. You can't even help yourself from nitpicking reasons why black actors shouldn't be cast to play elves or dwarves in a story set in Middle Earth after accusing me of being brainwashed into deflecting all genuine criticism away from the show. The skin tone of these actors is a mundane detail compared to the story written in the books or the one they're attempting to tell on the screen. I have nothing to say to the people who dislike the story as it's being told or have issues with the pacing. That's their opinion and I don't really disagree with some of that criticism. However, the nitpicking over skin tone or hyperfocus on Gladriel's actress and her character development is not hard to see through. Don't approach the subject like Ben Shapiro would and you won't be called a racist or misogynist. It's not exactly rocket science, my guy.

The difference is pretty simple. Jackson produced good movies and that makes minor changes to the lore forgivable, but that doesn't mean that people would not have prefered a more lore accurate story.
The series however isn't good. If they had published it without the LoTR title then no one would have watched more then 1-2 episodes of this.

Also, the series has barely started? uh... have you watched more then the first episode? Because we had almost 10 hours of screen time by now. Much much more then the usual series is affored before it is judged. It's almost as much screen time as the entire LoTR triology (expanded version).

Take the Harley Quinn animated series. The entire first season was what? 3 hours total? And people loved it so much they immediatedly wanted more. Even when it was shortly canceled people clamoured to get more and so there now is more. That show is btw another excellent example of including diversity without replacing quality. The homosexual relationship of the main protagonists only ever served to enrich the story and thus there was little to no negative reaction to it.

Have you read anyone eagerly awaiting the next season of Rings? I haven't. The most positive I hear is "Meh".

Yes, the bulk of the story hasn't been told so to claim they've absolutely butchered the lore is just closed-minded idiocy. People have been making this argument all thread long and some before the first episode aired. They never intended to give the show a fair hearing and they're pretty open about it. I don't care to try to change their mind but that level of discourse for pages at a time is going to get pushback. Just don't watch the show if it makes you that angry. The books are widely available if you're after an exact re-telling of what's in print.

[Ghost of Cow]

No this is what you are explicitly shown about the characters.

Jen ditches Bruce’s super hero training saying she doesn’t plan to be on and then literally goes to a therapy session and breaks down about how people only care about she hulk.

Rey tries to ditch the rebellion to go back to waiting for her Parants and latches onto Han Finn and kylo almost instantly to replace the family that left her.

Galadriel Leads her men to the point of abandoning her due to her lack of care and then jumps into the ocean with no actual way to get back safely.

Carol has a bloody montage of her breaking the limits others set for her.

There actions and behaviours are nothing like each other’s and you’d have to be blind to think theses differences are just told to you.

What does the specifics of their stories have to do with criticisms of how their characters are written and portrayed?

I'd also remind you that it wasn't people criticizing Galadriel that brought the comparisons to Rey and others into it. It was someone who thought that by tying everyone together just because they're the same gender they could slap some labels on anyone that disagreed with them.

[rhorle]

"expanding" doesn't necessarily mean "completely disregard all that's been done, all the lore, all the fluff, and push THE MESSAGE of the modern, so very diverse and tolerant times".

The amusing thing is people said the same thing about the Jackson films and the changes he made. Arwen was even dubbed "Xenarwen". Yet the films are seen fondly by many that are now attack Rings of Power for similar things. A prominent "online figure" in the Tolkien sphere back then even refused to give his name because of his hate-stirring comments like "a New Age politically correct girl-power garbage version of fantasy." when describing the Jackson films. (https://www.wired.com/2001/10/lotr/)

It really is more of the same now. The same crowd of fans that hate a topic come out in droves to pile that hate on. Even when it doesn't really go against the spirit of Tolkien. Since the whole concept of the fellowship is a diverse group of people setting grievances aside to work together for a common goal. An anti-totalitarian story that also has people trying to defend it with totalitarian views.

- - - Updated - - -

What does the specifics of their stories have to do with criticisms of how their characters are written and portrayed?

How do you know how their character is portrayed without the story of that character? Criticizing without context is silly.

[UnifiedDivide]

You're absolutely clueless about this series, aren't you?

Heeey, leave him alone, he only watched the first 15 minutes of episode one, last I recall!

You're also not the only person to read the books. Grow up.

Leave this guy alone, too! He's so cool at reading that he doesn't even watch this series, he supposedly just reads summaries of the episodes, what a champ.

Seriously, I wouldn't waste my time with any of them. Look at how fervently they swarm to reply to you about how you're wrong and this series just must be hated. There is no enjoyment to be had from this thread unless you're part of the hate mob. People that simply don't watch but must shit on it, people that claim to just read about it, way too many people that claim to watch it but hate 99% of every episode, the people that only really contribute by copy/pasting negative articles because they want to belong, the one guy that tries to have a go at people for doing nothing but shitposting and arguing for the sake of arguing despite being a blatant example of exactly that, and people that clearly don't have the capacity to even understand what is going on if they do watch it. People somehow think that the Harfoots had a total 180 out of nowhere recently, despite some mad shit happening to them to change their views, and the speech being given coming from the guy that was going to get left behind last time and not the leader lol

There is nothing here but impotent hatred. Look at how often Galadriel is just called a "bitch" or an "annoying bitch." This is what happens to damn near every thread in this sub-forum. It gets taken over by the same hate-filled cretins, the same people that still can't let go of Wheel of Time. They have no joy in their lives to actually fill their time with, so they have to spread their misery. Even coming up with their own (read: watched some perpetually-upset outrage-tuber on YT) conspiracy theories to make more negatives and create more hate.

As you said, people decided months before a single episode was out, even before teasers, that it was going to be shit. Most seem to have stuck to that thought, some with miniscule actual reason to do so.

The people actually wanting to discuss what they genuinely watched I think I can count on one hand (people like Orby). I think everyone (minus kenn, but we can disregard his weird obsessions) can agree it isn't a perfect series, we've all pointed out issues with it. But some, at least, have the mental capacity to just walk away when they don't enjoy it enough. Personally, I find myself more willing to watch this than HotD, which I'm now 2 episodes behind on. Though the newest episode was apparently really good, so I might compel myself to catch up.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

What does the specifics of their stories have to do with criticisms of how their characters are written and portrayed?

theses aren't specifics to there story’s these are differences in characterization.

Galadriel in any of these settings Isn’t going to sit around ignoring evil to sit and wait in a Desert and wait nor is she going to complain in a group session about how she’s unliked or try to fly because others said she can’t.

Just as Jen and Rey in ROP wouldn’t put others at risk for there own revenge (Rey literally left her friends behind to avoid this) and Carol would care about helping the weak more then revenge like she did at the end of cpt marvel.

I'd also remind you that it wasn't people criticizing Galadriel that brought the comparisons to Rey and others into it. It was someone who thought that by tying everyone together just because they're the same gender they could slap some labels on anyone that disagreed with them.

who brought up
The characters first is wholly irrelevant to saying they are all the same character.

[Fortress of Arrogance]

The amusing thing is people said the same thing about the Jackson films and the changes he made. Arwen was even dubbed "Xenarwen". Yet the films are seen fondly by many that are now attack Rings of Power for similar things.

Could this have anything to do with that Jackson movies were good, dialogues were good, the plot was good and cohesive, and acting was good to stellar?

- - - Updated - - -

Seriously, I wouldn't waste my time with any of them. Look at how fervently they swarm to reply to you about how you're wrong and this series just must be hated.

I dare you to find a single quote where anyone says you *MUST* hate the series.

[rhorle]

Could this have anything to do with that Jackson movies were good, dialogues were good, the plot was good and cohesive, and acting was good to stellar?

That just shows how contrived the complaints are. If it is a problem then it should be regardless of the rest being good or bad. Talk about the things that make Rings of Power bad rather then the things that you just stated wouldn't impact the favorable view of a Tolkien adaptation.

[UnifiedDivide]

Could this have anything to do with that Jackson movies were good, dialogues were good, the plot was good and cohesive, and acting was good to stellar?

This is debatable. Just like RoP, the movies had their share of dodgy dialogue. People pointed some of it out a good while ago.

I dare you to find a single quote where anyone says you *MUST* hate the series.

Is that what I said? Nope. But there are people that claim you're an Amazon/corporate shill if you dare to say anything positive lol

[Fortress of Arrogance]

Talk about the things that make Rings of Power bad rather then the things that you just stated wouldn't impact the favorable view of a Tolkien adaptation.

Did you miss all the criticism towards the plot, the dialogues, the acting over the past few pages?

This is debatable. Just like RoP, the movies had their share of dodgy dialogue. People pointed some of it out a good while ago.

Feel free to debate this.
Be my guest.

Is that what I said? Nope. But there are people that claim you're an Amazon/corporate shill if you dare to say anything positive lol

Is that what you said?

Seriously, I wouldn't waste my time with any of them. Look at how fervently they swarm to reply to you about how you're wrong and this series just must be hated.

Still nope?

[rhorle]

Did you miss all the criticism towards the plot, the dialogues, the acting over the past few pages?

No. That still doesn't change that you brought up something that you also said has no impact on a adaptation being good or bad.

[UnifiedDivide]

Still nope?

Still nope. I said people like you swarmed to tell him how wrong he is. The "series just must be hated" just ties into telling him how he's wrong because, as stated, any word of positivity is met with cries of "shill."

Now, go away.