Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[exochaft]

Nielsen ratings are out. Week 4 is 988 million minutes for US TV's only. I wish we could see non-TV and international numbers as well.

Good luck with that. Even with those, we'll never know the real numbers because only Amazon has that. At this point, if Amazon did release numbers I don't think I'd believe them. We've already seen them play this game when saying they had X amount of viewers, but the fine print is that a viewer counted as someone who watched only a few minutes (not even the full episode)... for all we know half of those people turned off the episode 10 minutes in and never came back. There's been insider reports for a long while that regardless if RoP does well or flops, Amazon will publicly take the stance that it's the best TV content ever, however I wouldn't doubt if we start seeing some quiet action and changes taking place in the months following the finale.

Regardless, normies drive those kinds of numbers, and I have a sneaking suspicion there will be a large drop-off in RoP normie viewership around episode 3 and episode 5/6. I chose these spots because RoP is extremely boring for the first couple of episodes so you'll just lose people who won't return at around the 3rd episode, and around 5/6 the writing and plot take such a large nose-dive that even normies have started to say the show is dumb. Considering the high praise I see from some individuals about the finale of She-Hulk, I can safely assume that there will always be an audience for shows regardless of how trash they are... the question is what is the floor viewership for RoP?

Ultimately, I don't think RoP is going to have a lasting positive impact on people. If you talk about PJ's LotR trilogy, that's had an insanely large impact on people that has lasted two decades and still has people who enjoy watching it and sing its praises... because it was actually good content regardless if some of the lore aspects were adjusted. I don't see the same being true for RoP at all, as it comes off like the standard 'product for consumption only' that we get with Disney and Marvel (think of all the Marvel D+ series: are people even talking or thinking about them months afterwards in positive terms?). Many people now probably can't really remember what happened in specific episodes earlier in the seasons, and a couple months time after the RoP finale people will probably just forget about the show. I wouldn't doubt if Amazon constantly trickles season 2 news between now and the season 2 debut that's several years away, but it's still a long time to where people will just forget it even exists.

[Triceron]

Regardless, normies drive those kinds of numbers, and I have a sneaking suspicion there will be a large drop-off in RoP normie viewership around episode 3 and episode 5/6. I chose these spots because RoP is extremely boring for the first couple of episodes so you'll just lose people who won't return at around the 3rd episode, and around 5/6 the writing and plot take such a large nose-dive that even normies have started to say the show is dumb. Considering the high praise I see from some individuals about the finale of She-Hulk, I can safely assume that there will always be an audience for shows regardless of how trash they are... the question is what is the floor viewership for RoP?

I think you're looking at this the wrong way if you think normies will stop watching a show just because the writing and plot took a nose dive and the show is dumb. People may generally complain about a show, but rarely do they have the willpower to just give up on something they've already invested themselves in. And if they're actually Amazon subscribers, I mean, the show is already there and it's not like they'd go out of their way to avoid the rest of the series on principle that the show's getting dumber, that's an expectation of hardcore fans, not normies.

And considering Ep6 is utterly action packed and climactic and word of mouth would have easily spread around on this episode, the numbers aren't likely going to dip at the arguably best episode of the season so far (for normies especially). And 7 and 8 would be following through what they've already invested time into.

[rhorle]

Regardless, normies drive those kinds of numbers, and I have a sneaking suspicion there will be a large drop-off in RoP normie viewership around episode 3 and episode 5/6.

It seems silly to pick episode 3 when these numbers cover that episode and a few days of episode 4. The drop is only around 300 million mins and seems similar to House of the Dragon. These numbers only cover streaming for HotD as only HBOMax views are included. Cable television would make HotD drop off different.

Lets remember to that taste is subjective. She-hulk expertly crafted what they were going for (the satire/mockery) and is far from trash. That is why much of this talk is silly because people are constantly trying to project their opinion as the end all be all of the show. Bringing "normies" as evidence, or "all my friends", etc. It does nothing really. The TV and Film industry are full of shows that people hate on yet are still successful and get views. Like CW shows that people love to trash. Or HGTV. Or Soaps. Or reality TV.

Rings of Power won't suffer from people forgetting because it is Lord of the Rings. It has its own draw. And as a real life counter Avatar 2 comes out in December and the re-release of Avatar 1 recently earned 30 million at the box office 13 years after first release. All Amazon has to do is marketing and promote the previous season to draw people back in.

[Unforgivenn]

Meteor man is gandalf rofl

Not surprised

[Triceron]

RIP Annatar.

I guess they really had to make up their own thing cuz they don't have any rights to Silmarillion for that.

And man, so many lines lifted straight from LOTR...

[swineflu]

I bailed on LotR, House of the Dragon and Andor. Boring. I like Attorney Woo, The Patient and She-Hulk.

[Lora]

i cant believe i was fucking right about halbrand. fucking called it.

[fakaroonie]

500 million dollar budget for this. 281 million for the whole OG Trilogy.

How times change.

Sauron influences them to make shit. Elves are like: yeah no, we won't make 2, let's make 3 instead. That will mess with his plans. Thousands of years of wisdom.

[Raisei]

That's quite presumptuous, considering they've also produced quality work like Critical Role, Invincible and The Boys, which are all adaptations in their own right.

Yep, I have only seen two of those, but they were excellent so I am not blaming amazon for the overall quality of the show. They just gave those showrunners all the money in the world and probably expected them to do good with it. Sadly that is just not what happened.

I am still not sure where all that money went. Better shows have produced entire seasons for the price of a single episode of this one. It isn't the actors, who are largely unknown newbies. So did they blow millions on costume, CGI and sets? Feels... unrealistic. I would not be surprised if in the future we hear of a big scandal of one of the showrunners embezzling some of the money, or them paying themselves an insane wage.

In the end I am not even blaming the actors. They usually just do what they can with the directions they are given. Maybe Galadriel really was told to look like she was constipated for 6 episodes straight (probably not).

Nah, the blame for this mess lies with the writers and showrunners. They had the audacity to take Tolkiens world and use it to pander to the Twitter Justice Warriors without ever worrying about writing a good plot, fleshing out characters or making them engaging even.

As a big fan of female protagonists I am simply dumbfounded how bad this take on Galadriel is. There are so many good female characters in the history of series and movies that they could have used as an inspiration and yet... this is what happened.

If you wanted her to be a badass with a more complex character under the surface, take Buffy Summers for example. Seven seasons of that show portray a woman that is strong but still engaging because she went through tons of hardship, much of which is simply "being human", dealing with emotional baggage, love, friendship and all of that.

Galadriel is a cardbox cutout in comparison. She seems to be constantly pissed at everyone around her and that is the only emotion she seems capable of. She talks about her husband as if he barely matters to her at all, she tells people to be humble while being arrogance personified... and different from a character like Buffy who does get the appropriate response when she behaves like a bitch, Galadriel is just proven right and everyone loves her for her terrible character.

Then we have the Proto-Hobbits. Oh my god. They are the worst. They sing loudly about not leaving people behind while leaving people behind if the slightest problem arrises and for no reason. They aren't being pursued, they are in no danger, they just travel because they live like locusts...
It is such a horrible irony and self-delusion, but instead of calling them out for it, the show doesn't even seem to be aware of what it is portraying here. There should be a cost for being this terrible, but all we had is some wagons burning.

The most relatable character I would say is Adar. He at least cares about his people and at the end of the day, he was a victim. When Galadriel leaned over him and claimed how she would murder all his people and only then kill him so he would suffer as much as possible I really have no idea how I am supposed to relate to her. It's not like he chose to be tortured by Morgoth...

[Syegfryed]

Internet is on fire about this, didn't watch yet, but people can't stop posting about it, but funny, not in a good way, this show sure will be remembered, as one of the most clusterfucks ever.

Nota gonna talk abou Gandalf and Sauron reveal, because it was known the moment they appear, perfect opportunity to make Saruman, but nah.

And they even come up with Galadriel as the one with the idea to make 3, like fuck, sure she is the protagonist, but she needs to take credit for nearly everything? jesus.


And at least the sociopath hobbit died

[Rennadrel]

Characters like Galadrial in this show just come off as clearly obvious self-inserts of insecure Twitter feminists who think that being a toxic heel is what makes women strong. It's like they are over compensating for something that they lack, kind of like when men do it. Just because we like to dickwave, doesn't mean women should do that. And most men don't even do that anyway and it certainly isn't entertaining when we do it, it is always cringe.

[Orby]

Episode 8 review

My first take away from this show now season one is over: It was all Galadriel's fault, remember that the next time you all watch or read Lord of the Rings. Also this was one of the weakest episodes. the finale, one of the weaker episodes. Its so sad. Despite my already existing issues with the show that I will not repeat, this had many more to add, too many member berry lines taken from the books and movies, the episode felt rushed and slow at the same time, basically an episode that was a over one hour epilogue.

the creation of the rings itself was very rushed, That could have been the point of he whole show. Also the Slim Shady cultists, we knew nothing about them, I hoped we'd find out more about them, like why they have magic, who are they, where they came from. We got their plan, obviously they were to find Sauron which they were mistaken, but they were killed off and now assuming that's it. What a waste, i actually was interested in learning more about these as the show went on, but nope, they were there and now they are gone, literally everything around this Harfoot storyline could have been scrapped and you wouldn't have missed anything.

Also what's up with this show and not betraying mourning? does this show not wan to dwell on death? Sadoc Burrows died and everyone kinda gets over it. The lack of emotional attachment in this show is non existent.

The reveals were predictable, I was hoping they'd serve us, but it was pretty much who everyone predicted, and that's fine, i have no issue with predictability, but they didn't really make up for it being throwing a curve ball in there.

This episode left a bitter taste in my mouth, it really did. Especially as I have been very defensive about the show... I may not have loved it, but I never hated it for the most part, I thought at best the show was just 'ok', but this episode by the end had me defeated.

I really did love this shot though.


Like the show has some really good cinematography, there is effort there, but my god its being weighed down by alot of problems.

3/10

Past reviews.
Episode 1: 6/10
Episode 2: 7/10
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post53897065
Episode 3: 4/10
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post53904070
Episode 4: 6/10
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post53910372
Episode 5: 5/10
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post53916644
Episode 6: 7/10
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post53923548
Episode 7: 6/10
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post53930495


EDIT: Additional Season review will be out later this week. I gotta reassess my scores and then come up with an overall score.

[InfiniteCharger]

It doesn't matter. They were published and their rights were sold by JRR Tolkien. You've established several times that means he was okay with them being adapted. You are the one that argued the rest of the legendarium doesn't matter as in the past you made a distinction between published and unpublished. Now that your argument includes published work they can be included. When it was my argument that included them you excluded them. You flip flop on what matters depending on the argument of the moment.

If it doesn't matter what he intended because he is dead then why are you still arguing that it matters? Isn't it strange how you keep contradicting the points you make? Including saying how much you want to stop discussing but apparently can't actually stop.

Dude. We already went over the fact that he sold the rights for 2 books. You are just retreading and backtracking. Tolkien wrote those two books as part 1 and 2 of a continuing story. That is simply a fact no matter how you keep claiming they were piecemeal. They are not piecemeal standalone stories. The 2nd age was intended to be part of that same story and continuity and not something separate or piecemeal. These are simple facts.

The fact that it doesn't matter means that you sitting here defending this show as if it depends on what Tolkien wanted is illogical. What is happening with this show has absolutely nothing to do with what Tolkien wanted and you arguing for pages that it does is is the issue. It is almost as if you are trying to argue that somehow and someway this show represents what Tolkien wanted, which is absurd.

[Shadowferal]

‘The Rings Of Power’ Season 1 Finale Recap And Review: A Dreadful Mess

The Rings Of Power has wrapped up its first season and all I can say is . . . shame on everyone who had a hand in this travesty.

I’ve never seen an adaptation of a major work so badly abused, so fundamentally altered or so disrespectfully handled as the creators of The Rings Of Power have treated The Lord Of The Rings. Tolkien’s creation barely shines through the dreck.

I gave this show a chance. I went in with low expectations and for a moment was charmed by what I saw, but quickly the cracks began to show in the story and its heroes. Of Mithril, this show is most certainly not crafted.

Nearly everything that could have gone wrong has done so. Even my worst fears about this show’s quality could not match what we were actually given.

But it’s comforting to know that the Rings Of Power and Mordor were all created within about a ten-day span! Nothing says epic fantasy like condensing thousands of years into a week and a half.

That’s quality writing, folks.

We could have had an entire season devoted to the actual forging of the rings. To Annatar/Halbrand’s deception. To the elves and their vanity. We could have waited to tell the story of Numenor until later—a story of the quest to cheat death, and the pride that cometh before the fall. So many ways this show could have taken what Tolkien actually wrote and fleshed it out into a TV series worthy of the source material. Ironically, it seems pride has been the downfall of Amazon’s Lord Of The Rings as well.

They added too much and cut too much when they had a perfectly good story to flesh out that Amazon spent hundreds of millions of dollars to purchase. Why not tell that expensive tale? Why make this other one up? I don’t understand.

What an absolute disaster.

And that's all folks...

[Alanar]

i cant believe i was fucking right about halbrand. fucking called it.

You were right like pretty much everyone.

[Flurryfang]

‘The Rings Of Power’ Season 1 Finale Recap And Review: A Dreadful Mess

The Rings Of Power has wrapped up its first season and all I can say is . . . shame on everyone who had a hand in this travesty.

I’ve never seen an adaptation of a major work so badly abused, so fundamentally altered or so disrespectfully handled as the creators of The Rings Of Power have treated The Lord Of The Rings. Tolkien’s creation barely shines through the dreck.

I gave this show a chance. I went in with low expectations and for a moment was charmed by what I saw, but quickly the cracks began to show in the story and its heroes. Of Mithril, this show is most certainly not crafted.

Nearly everything that could have gone wrong has done so. Even my worst fears about this show’s quality could not match what we were actually given.

But it’s comforting to know that the Rings Of Power and Mordor were all created within about a ten-day span! Nothing says epic fantasy like condensing thousands of years into a week and a half.

That’s quality writing, folks.

We could have had an entire season devoted to the actual forging of the rings. To Annatar/Halbrand’s deception. To the elves and their vanity. We could have waited to tell the story of Numenor until later—a story of the quest to cheat death, and the pride that cometh before the fall. So many ways this show could have taken what Tolkien actually wrote and fleshed it out into a TV series worthy of the source material. Ironically, it seems pride has been the downfall of Amazon’s Lord Of The Rings as well.

They added too much and cut too much when they had a perfectly good story to flesh out that Amazon spent hundreds of millions of dollars to purchase. Why not tell that expensive tale? Why make this other one up? I don’t understand.

What an absolute disaster.

And that's all folks...

That is really on point O.o

Like, i was expecting it to end quite anti-climatic, but this.... I had not foreseen, that they would just rush the "Halbrand is Sauron" and make the rings in a minute. Ain't that the entire point of the show? That they make the rings? Why conclude the first season with it all done?? O.o

And also, why make the black Numenor plot happen now??! O.o

It feels like the show, which was supposed to go for 5-8 seasons, is being rushed to be done in little more than a few seasons. Because what is left now? A battle with sauron? But then what? The numeanors are already corrupted it seems, so it does not seem like he has to do much. The rings are also already made and its obvious they are a bad idea, so why keep using them? O.o

So many questions about this show being alive sprouts up everywhere :O

[minteK917]

You can go back to when this thread was on episode two. My complaint was that its clear to me this show would rush to make an entire era in a few days or weeks. Guess what is happening, the entire story of this age will take a few weeks at most. Congrats amazon you did it.

[rhorle]

Dude. We already went over the fact that he sold the rights for 2 books.

So then an adaptation of the appendices from one of those books is covered. They were piecemeal from the whole legendarium. As in two of four things published by him prior to his death. If the second age was intended to be part of the same story then that implies he is okay with second age stuff being adapted even if he didn't publish second age stuff prior to his death. As he sold the rights to some of his story yet intended it to be a whole. You again prove that you are wrong lmao.

Of course the story of this show isn't canon. I'm not sure why you are now bringing that invention of yours back into this discussion. The question of discussion is adaptations and if Tolkien wanted adaptations.

[Trollhammer]

Who would have thought Amazon would solve the energy crisis harnessing the energy created from Tolkien spinning in his grave..

[InfiniteCharger]

So then an adaptation of the appendices from one of those books is covered. They were piecemeal from the whole legendarium. As in two of four things published by him prior to his death. If the second age was intended to be part of the same story then that implies he is okay with second age stuff being adapted even if he didn't publish second age stuff prior to his death. As he sold the rights to some of his story yet intended it to be a whole. You again prove that you are wrong lmao.

Of course the story of this show isn't canon. I'm not sure why you are now bringing that invention of yours back into this discussion. The question of discussion is adaptations and if Tolkien wanted adaptations.

Tolkien never sold rights to the appendices piecemeal. This was a "loophole" that the Tolkien Estate came up with to justify the idea of selling the rights to a television series based on them. You keep trying to argue this has something to do with what Tolkien intended when it does not. Everything about this series is bound up by legal rights between Warner Brothers, the Saul Zaence Company (now Embracer Company), the Tolkien Estate and Amazon. And because of that, this series only has limited rights to Tolkien's works, which means they are making up alternative stories and changes because of it. Therefore, because of all those rights issues, we are no longer talking about what Tolkien sold which were rights to two complete books, not parts of a book or parts of a story. You just do not accept the reality that this series is a totally made up story that only exists because the Tolkien Estate wanted to find a way to make some money off the IP and has absolutely nothing to do with JRR Tolkien and what he wanted. If that was true, then the Tolkien Estate would not have needed to find a loophole to sell these rights and Amazon could have just made a TV series without buying them. But they couldn't because what Tolkien sold were film rights and television series less than 8 episodes. Those rights did not include television series covering multiple seasons (or at least more than 8 episodes) were never included in those original rights. Therefore, Tolkien never literally sold rights to make a multiple season television series for any age from the universe of lord of the rings based on anything he wrote. So you are just wrong and should just accept that and give it up. This isn't a theoretical issue, it is a legal issue and not a "what Tolkien wanted" issue.

And if you are defending the existence of the series, then why are you constantly running back to Tolkien when he is long dead? By definition, defending this as an "adaptation" means you literally are arguing they have the right to do their own thing, but at the same time you keep going back to Tolkien. Why? By being its own thing, that literally means they no longer are bound to Tolkien and therefore should stand on their own merits based on the decisions they made for this show. But you keep trying to include Tolkien into this when Tolkien has nothing to do with this series. He is dead and whatever rights he sold have been transferred numerous times. The Tolkien Estate doesn't even have control over those rights which is why they came up with this idea to use the appendices to justify a multi season television series, because they got money directly from those rights. This absolutely in no way reflects anything to do with what Tolkien wanted when he sold the rights to his books for film adaptations. Notice that when people talk of the films, they call them the Peter Jackson films, because he was the main one behind getting those films made. And therefore he gets the credit or blame when those films succeed or fail. Yet here, you refuse to admit that this series is its own thing and succeeds or fails on its own merits, not because of Tolkien.