Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[Shadowferal]

That entire game was lore breaking. The forging a of a new ring of power? Celembrimbor getting bound to a random ranger? Shellob suddenly turning into a woman? Celebrimbor controlling orcs and fighting against sauron, AND ACTUALLY BEATING HIM? Isildur Being a Nazgul? There is so much lore breaking that it becomes fucking comical.

Damn...omg

[Sluvs]

Damn...omg

Yeah, shit is 100% crazy.

The first game broke the lore but it was not that bad.

The second game really messed with the lore in a big way.

[Varodoc]

That entire game was lore breaking. The forging a of a new ring of power? Celembrimbor getting bound to a random ranger? Shellob suddenly turning into a woman? Celebrimbor controlling orcs and fighting against sauron, AND ACTUALLY BEATING HIM? Isildur Being a Nazgul? There is so much lore breaking that it becomes fucking comical.

Yes, but it's okay, because the videogame never took itself seriously. It exists as its own thing and it's meant for fun, it's not meant to be an adaptation. It's basically its own universe.

Meanwhile this show is supposed to be an adaptation of the Second Age and is supposed to fill the gaps of the Second Age. So if this show has writing on the level of "Sauron and Celebrimbor hug and merge together, the Eye of Sauron turns blue to represent their struggle", which is a complete retcon/reimagining of the story, that would be a problem. Because this show actually takes itself seriously.

In other words, you can ignore the videogame as non-canon, but you can't ignore this TV show as non-canon, because it's meant to fill in the gaps of the Second Age...

[Godric]

I’m sure the show will turn out just like the Witcher. A diversity quota and embarrassing writing. Which is a shame. Just a really bad era for media entertainment. Wish we had some studios with some integrity working on things like this.

[Khaza-R]

Criticism is fine. What tends to go on isn't really criticism, though. Certainly not constructive criticism.

And you're the arbiter of what's worthy criticism, how?

Plenty of valid concerns raised in this thread. From costumes, to mischaracterizations, to literally just throwing the timeline out the window. Just because you don't care doesn't depreciate other people's criticisms based on what we've seen so far.

[BigToast]

And you're the arbiter of what's worthy criticism, how?

Plenty of valid concerns raised in this thread. From costumes, to mischaracterizations, to literally just throwing the timeline out the window. Just because you don't care doesn't depreciate other people's criticisms based on what we've seen so far.

It is "literally" a one minute teaser trailer. How can you "literally" say that they are "literally just throwing the timeline out the window." This is why people who use the term "literally" "literally" have no idea what they are talking about.

[rogoth]

How many actors of colour do they need to cast to escape your assessment of tokenism, is it an absolute number or as a percentage of the cast? Will you be counting on a per-episode basis or waiting until you have seen the whole series?

if they had made a totally new dwarf faction with this new, for some inexplicable reason beardless, female dwarf as their leader who had been living apart from the rest of dwarven society for a length of time and had developed their own customs and traditions etc, then while a bit disingenuous to the source material it would have been a bit more palatable to understand why there's suddenly a black female dwarf with no beard in middle earth seeing as that goes against every single thing Tolkein wrote when describing (in great detail) how every single race of peoples who inhabit middle earth look and act.

as for the elf, there's simply no defending that abomination, first off elves were always the tallest race of humanoid creatures of middle earth, (outside of some notable exceptions such as Elendil the tall etc), and were fashioned and moulded in the image of their creator, the one and only god of the Tolklein universe, Eru Illuvatar, who was always depicted as the stereotypical elderly white man with flowing white hair and beard, ALL eleven progenitors are white, inter species breeding is rare among elves, with only a handful of known examples, meaning that even if you afford some EXTREME artistic license for such a couple existing, it's never mentioned anywhere that elves ever went anywhere near Harad/Umbar regions or the far south of the lands past these parts where mankind existed in a more tribal and 'barbaric' fashion, meaning that there was no way for 'black' genes to enter the pool, making it biologically impossible for a black elf to spring up out of nowhere, and no amount of bullshit storytelling is gonna change that fact.

this entire plotline they are trying to peddle is tokenism at its finest, not only do you have the 'strong independent black female' box checked, you have the 'strong independent single white mother' box checked, you have the 'token black male character in a leading role' box checked, you also have the 'strong independent single white woman in a position of authority over the patriarchy' box checked, lets not forget the token 'little person multi racial representation' box checked too for good measure, outside of the token Asian character they pretty covered every single 'woke checkbox' that shows up on 'woke bingo', if i have missed any please feel free to add more but off hand i can't think of any.

[Nerovar]

Sounds as bad as some that fetishize a certain undead ranger.

I'll stick with this;

That's some great fantasy cover art right there.

[BeepBoo]

It's tired. It's been tired since 2015, and yet here we are still pretending to be outraged.

And yet BP is probably my favorite marvel movie ever made?

And yet, no one has given a palatable reason as to WHY it's fine to do this in some cases but not others? Sorry. Reeling against "but these are the people in power, therefor we're allowed to do anything we want!" is bullshit that isn't acceptable to me.

What's been tired since 2015 is still having to put up with dumb shit like representation for the sake of representation and ticking check boxes versus anything that makes sense. People who NEED someone like them to feel kinship and to like something are stupid IMO.

[Triceron]

Yes, but it's okay, because the videogame never took itself seriously. It exists as its own thing and it's meant for fun, it's not meant to be an adaptation. It's basically its own universe.

Meanwhile this show is supposed to be an adaptation of the Second Age and is supposed to fill the gaps of the Second Age. So if this show has writing on the level of "Sauron and Celebrimbor hug and merge together, the Eye of Sauron turns blue to represent their struggle", which is a complete retcon/reimagining of the story, that would be a problem. Because this show actually takes itself seriously.

In other words, you can ignore the videogame as non-canon, but you can't ignore this TV show as non-canon, because it's meant to fill in the gaps of the Second Age...

You can ignore both. That is an individual's choice.

There's nothing holding this series to the Book's canon. Nothing is going to be built on top of the show's self-contained canon, aside from potential sequels or spinoffs, which you can continue to ignore.

Just like PJ's Hobbit. Tons of changes in those movies. I recommend the Maple cut to everyone, which cuts out all the fluff and extra characters and subplots which weren't in the novel.

[Sluvs]

Yes, but it's okay, because the videogame never took itself seriously. It exists as its own thing and it's meant for fun, it's not meant to be an adaptation. It's basically its own universe.

Meanwhile this show is supposed to be an adaptation of the Second Age and is supposed to fill the gaps of the Second Age. So if this show has writing on the level of "Sauron and Celebrimbor hug and merge together, the Eye of Sauron turns blue to represent their struggle", which is a complete retcon/reimagining of the story, that would be a problem. Because this show actually takes itself seriously.

In other words, you can ignore the videogame as non-canon, but you can't ignore this TV show as non-canon, because it's meant to fill in the gaps of the Second Age...

The game takes itself way too seriously. You don't take it seriously, but that is a you thing. You can also choose to ignore the series too. Its just a little harder to do so because it is bigger. It just have a bigger spotlight.

[Grimbold21]

It would be amusing to see a book series where the world and characters are described as the complete opposite of what you normally see, and then see how apologists would react if the creators threw a bunch of white people in replacing characters and people with clear physicial descriptions.

Like Evan Winter's The Rage of Dragons book(s).

[rogoth]

It is "literally" a one minute teaser trailer. How can you "literally" say that they are "literally just throwing the timeline out the window." This is why people who use the term "literally" "literally" have no idea what they are talking about.

because their timeline STARTS at the fall of Numenor, the fast forwards CENTURIES to another event before panning around to show scenes of all their woke checkboxes in stunning scenery, they even said in their fluff piece that is dripping with wokeness, they have 'conflated the timeline of events so they happen much closer together than what actually happened in the stories', and for the record, i have 'LITERALLY' every idea of what i'm talking about, so try again when you have any resemblance of an arguement that's not just wasting bandwidth on drivel, thanks.

[Nerovar]

And yet BP is probably my favorite marvel movie ever made?

And yet, no one has given a palatable reason as to WHY it's fine to do this in some cases but not others? Sorry. Reeling against "but these are the people in power, therefor we're allowed to do anything we want!" is bullshit that isn't acceptable to me.

What's been tired since 2015 is still having to put up with dumb shit like representation for the sake of representation and ticking check boxes.

Better get used to it. This stuff is already getting institutionalized pretty much everywhere in the west. Just look at awards like the Oscars implementing rules that only movies that meet certain diversity criteria can be eligible to win 'best picture'. Think of that what you will but it's not going away anytime soon.

[Varodoc]

if they had made a totally new dwarf faction with this new, for some inexplicable reason beardless, female dwarf as their leader who had been living apart from the rest of dwarven society for a length of time and had developed their own customs and traditions etc, then while a bit disingenuous to the source material it would have been a bit more palatable to understand why there's suddenly a black female dwarf with no beard in middle earth seeing as that goes against every single thing Tolkein wrote when describing (in great detail) how every single race of peoples who inhabit middle earth look and act.

They don't care, they put a black dwarf woman only because it's 2022 and they want to be inclusive.

It's the same for the black elves that were added in WoW. Before Shadowlands, there was never a black elf, literally.

They don't care about creating a story (however far-fetched as it may be), they only care about inserting minorities to fill the usual quota.

It wouldn't surprise me if they turned Annatar (aka Elf Sauron) into a woman, so that they can earn some points with the Trans crowd.

[rogoth]

People would have just complained about there being a new faction instead lol


Oh, never mind, you're not a serious person.

first off, where in any of their bullshit press releases did they say that it was a totally new. never before seen faction of dwarves? they haven't, where did they say that this new faction of dwarves was based in their story?, that's right, they didn't, all they have done is provide a face on photograph of their 'insert token black female character here' with a tagline of what her role is in the story they are trying to push, followed by a 1 minute video 'teaser' that shows her with her arms up in the air seemingly shouting at someone or something for maybe 5 seconds of the entire piece, and not only that, but beyond her being black, which as i have mentioned above about the elves, is biologically impossible as the dwarven race is descendant of Durin I, a WHITE male, and there has never been an inter species coupling of a dwarf and other non dwarf race meaning that there's no way in any universe a naturally black skinned version could just suddenly pop up out of nowhere, not to mention beardless, and in a position of authority, they broke 4 or 5 different laws of the source material with her character alone.

i fail to see how calling out what they have done as being 'not a serious person', is that your go to defense when someone tears down your arguement, you have to try and dismiss them as credible to you to make you feel better?

[BigToast]

this entire plotline they are trying to peddle is tokenism at its finest, not only do you have the 'strong independent black female' box checked, you have the 'strong independent single white mother' box checked, you have the 'token black male character in a leading role' box checked, you also have the 'strong independent single white woman in a position of authority over the patriarchy' box checked, lets not forget the token 'little person multi racial representation' box checked too for good measure, outside of the token Asian character they pretty covered every single 'woke checkbox' that shows up on 'woke bingo', if i have missed any please feel free to add more but off hand i can't think of any.

I remember seeing a really nice shot of Numenor. Also a cool shot of someone who may be Gil Galad. Also a shot or two of Elrond. Funny how people get triggered when they see a lady or a person of color in a one minute trailer and quickly take out their "woke checkbox." Why exactly are people so scared of or angry about a little color in their fantasy world? It is quite possible that these trailers are cut like this to trigger these poor folks that are intimidated and scared by diversity. It sure does create a lot of free advertising.

- - - Updated - - -

because their timeline STARTS at the fall of Numenor, the fast forwards CENTURIES to another event before panning around to show scenes of all their woke checkboxes in stunning scenery, they even said in their fluff piece that is dripping with wokeness, they have 'conflated the timeline of events so they happen much closer together than what actually happened in the stories', and for the record, i have 'LITERALLY' every idea of what i'm talking about, so try again when you have any resemblance of an arguement that's not just wasting bandwidth on drivel, thanks.

Again, you "literally" assume the timeline from a "literal" one minute teaser trailer. You "literally' are creating a timelines out of nothing. You "literally" have no idea if there are flashbacks. You "literally" have no idea if the series will jump from time period to other time periods to tell different stories. All you "literally" know is that you are "literally" upset because you saw women and people of color.

[Sluvs]

And yet BP is probably my favorite marvel movie ever made?

And yet, no one has given a palatable reason as to WHY it's fine to do this in some cases but not others? Sorry. Reeling against "but these are the people in power, therefor we're allowed to do anything we want!" is bullshit that isn't acceptable to me.

What's been tired since 2015 is still having to put up with dumb shit like representation for the sake of representation and ticking check boxes versus anything that makes sense. People who NEED someone like them to feel kinship and to like something are stupid IMO.

If you want a valid reason, black people are have been struggling to get decent representation for decades, and they still struggle to get roles and even get nominated less than other people. Then you decide to take away their already reduced representation by assigning black roles to white actors? That is a bad look. It is a false simmetry.

Now you might dislike or disagree with it, which is another discussion that is off limits for this forum, but the reasoning is sound at least.

[s_bushido]

It is quite possible that these trailers are cut like this to trigger these poor folks that are intimidated and scared by diversity. It sure does create a lot of free advertising.

I wouldn't be surprised if this factored into it. Marketing teams would have to have their heads in the sand to not recognize that they'd get a reaction like this. So even if it wasn't an intentional goal, it's bound to be a happy byproduct.

[Khaza-R]

Show me anywhere that I actually claimed to be such an arbiter.


All based on nothing more than a few posters and a short teaser video.

You're attempting to define what is constructive criticism. You're being the gatekeeper here. And yes, in some regards we've seen enough. You don't need to see an entire batman reboot to decide whether you like the costume or not.

It is "literally" a one minute teaser trailer. How can you "literally" say that they are "literally just throwing the timeline out the window." This is why people who use the term "literally" "literally" have no idea what they are talking about.

You mean something that the directors said themselves?

In the novels, the aforementioned things take place over thousands of years, but Payne and McKay have compressed events into a single point in time. It is their biggest deviation from the text, and they know it’s a big swing. “We talked with the Tolkien estate,” says Payne. “If you are true to the exact letter of the law, you are going to be telling a story in which your human characters are dying off every season because you’re jumping 200 years in time, and then you’re not meeting really big, important canon characters until season four. Look, there might be some fans who want us to do a documentary of Middle-earth, but we’re going to tell one story that unites all these things.”