Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[Shadowferal]

Don't forget about that plot point that Shelob (the big ugly spider Sam fought in the movies) was actually a hot woman and Sauron was... having sex with her ??? They were in a relationship and shared a bed :confused

Sounds as bad as some that fetishize a certain undead ranger.

I'll stick with this;

[Shadowferal]

Also doesn't refute my point, and simply furthers your own ridiculous hate.

What hate?

[Sluvs]

This is true, im just curious if the people who are going on about how you shouldn’t use the lore if you want to change it or that it’s disrespecting Tolkien ect ect we’re doing the same for every shadow of war trailer/material that came out as I’ve been seeing this stuff out side of the obvious fandom areas yet didn’t see a peep around the games.

It could very well be that the show is just bigger so similar stuff was going on but it was more self contained I have no clue.

I remember there was some hate but it was slightly more contained, even though the liberties that they took with the material is... well, let's just say it is slightly bigger than Galadriel Warrior Princess.

But the show is bigger, hating on amazon is cool and 1 billion dollars will be pumped into this after all was said and done. I might be wrong here, and I hope I am, but my impression is that the people are complaining mostly about the cast and using "Warrior princess" as a bonus reason for the hate but one that would definitely not survive on its own.

[Syegfryed]

At least the people who did the game didn't pretend they were doing a game tolkien never made

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What hate?

apparently you can't criticize anything, otherwise is ridiculous and undeserved hate.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I remember there was some hate but it was slightly more contained, even though the liberties that they took with the material is... well, let's just say it is slightly bigger than Galadriel Warrior Princess.

But the show is bigger, hating on amazon is cool and 1 billion dollars will be pumped into this after all was said and done. I might be wrong here, and I hope I am, but my impression is that the people are complaining mostly about the cast and using "Warrior princess" as a bonus reason for the hate but one that would definitely not survive on its own.

You could be right it could just be that it’s bigger and people want to hate on Amazon though as you said alot of the focus is on the cast even if the series will have lesser lore breaks then say sex spider.

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At least the people who did the game didn't pretend they were doing a game tolkien never made

Does that actually matter when it comes to people complaining about lore breaks? Like if they didn’t use that tag line less people would care?

[Shadowferal]

apparently you can't criticize anything, otherwise is ridiculous and undeserved hate.

It's not the first time he's made such a claim or accusation. And whenever I ask the why, the wherefore, and the reasons he either post a refusal or simply ignores me. At this point I can only conclude he has tendency to villainize anyone that disagrees with him on anything.

[Varodoc]

Sounds as bad as some that fetishize a certain undead ranger.

I'll stick with this;

Huh, No actually, it sounds worse.

While it's weird to fetishize Sylvanas because she's still technically "dead", at the same time she's still an elf, so that's understandable (not justifiable, but understandable).

Meanwhile Shelob is literally (or was literally?) an ugly spider, how are you going to turn that creature into a beautiful woman, it's just weird

I am willing to make the same argument about Alexstrasza and Ysera btw.

The implications that Sauron (while in his hot form) was having sex with human Shelob are also weird and really out of nowhere.

NOTE: I said "weird" and not "bad", because I actually find it funny that Sauron had the time to develop a whole relationship with Shelob in-between scheming and deceiving people, but it's still weird because it came out of nowhere. Before that videogame came out, everyone pretty much agreed that Shelob was just a giant spider and that was the end of it.

Although this is lore-breaking, because it doesn't explain why Shelob tried to kill Frodo and Sam, when their mission was to destroy Sauron (that Shelob, in the videogame universe, hated and despised after he betrayed her).

[Sluvs]

Huh, No actually, it sounds worse.

While it's weird to fetishize Sylvanas because she's still technically "dead", at the same time she's still an elf, so that's understandable (not justifiable, but understandable).

Meanwhile Shelob is literally (or was literally?) an ugly spider, how are you going to turn that creature into a beautiful woman, it's just weird

I am willing to make the same argument about Alexstrasza and Ysera btw.

The implications that Sauron (while in his hot form) was having sex with human Shelob are also weird and really out of nowhere.

NOTE: I said "weird" and not "bad", because I actually find it funny that Sauron had the time to develop a whole relationship with Shelob in-between scheming and deceiving people, but it's still weird because it came out of nowhere. Before that videogame came out, everyone pretty much agreed that Shelob was just a giant spider and that was the end of it.

Although this is lore-breaking, because it doesn't explain why Shelob tried to kill Frodo and Sam, when their mission was to destroy Sauron (that Shelob, in the videogame universe, hated and despised after he betrayed her).

That entire game was lore breaking. The forging a of a new ring of power? Celembrimbor getting bound to a random ranger? Shellob suddenly turning into a woman? Celebrimbor controlling orcs and fighting against sauron, AND ACTUALLY BEATING HIM? Isildur Being a Nazgul? There is so much lore breaking that it becomes fucking comical.

[Shadowferal]

That entire game was lore breaking. The forging a of a new ring of power? Celembrimbor getting bound to a random ranger? Shellob suddenly turning into a woman? Celebrimbor controlling orcs and fighting against sauron, AND ACTUALLY BEATING HIM? Isildur Being a Nazgul? There is so much lore breaking that it becomes fucking comical.

Damn...omg

[Sluvs]

Damn...omg

Yeah, shit is 100% crazy.

The first game broke the lore but it was not that bad.

The second game really messed with the lore in a big way.

[Varodoc]

That entire game was lore breaking. The forging a of a new ring of power? Celembrimbor getting bound to a random ranger? Shellob suddenly turning into a woman? Celebrimbor controlling orcs and fighting against sauron, AND ACTUALLY BEATING HIM? Isildur Being a Nazgul? There is so much lore breaking that it becomes fucking comical.

Yes, but it's okay, because the videogame never took itself seriously. It exists as its own thing and it's meant for fun, it's not meant to be an adaptation. It's basically its own universe.

Meanwhile this show is supposed to be an adaptation of the Second Age and is supposed to fill the gaps of the Second Age. So if this show has writing on the level of "Sauron and Celebrimbor hug and merge together, the Eye of Sauron turns blue to represent their struggle", which is a complete retcon/reimagining of the story, that would be a problem. Because this show actually takes itself seriously.

In other words, you can ignore the videogame as non-canon, but you can't ignore this TV show as non-canon, because it's meant to fill in the gaps of the Second Age...

[Godric]

I’m sure the show will turn out just like the Witcher. A diversity quota and embarrassing writing. Which is a shame. Just a really bad era for media entertainment. Wish we had some studios with some integrity working on things like this.

[Khaza-R]

Criticism is fine. What tends to go on isn't really criticism, though. Certainly not constructive criticism.

And you're the arbiter of what's worthy criticism, how?

Plenty of valid concerns raised in this thread. From costumes, to mischaracterizations, to literally just throwing the timeline out the window. Just because you don't care doesn't depreciate other people's criticisms based on what we've seen so far.

[BigToast]

And you're the arbiter of what's worthy criticism, how?

Plenty of valid concerns raised in this thread. From costumes, to mischaracterizations, to literally just throwing the timeline out the window. Just because you don't care doesn't depreciate other people's criticisms based on what we've seen so far.

It is "literally" a one minute teaser trailer. How can you "literally" say that they are "literally just throwing the timeline out the window." This is why people who use the term "literally" "literally" have no idea what they are talking about.

[rogoth]

How many actors of colour do they need to cast to escape your assessment of tokenism, is it an absolute number or as a percentage of the cast? Will you be counting on a per-episode basis or waiting until you have seen the whole series?

if they had made a totally new dwarf faction with this new, for some inexplicable reason beardless, female dwarf as their leader who had been living apart from the rest of dwarven society for a length of time and had developed their own customs and traditions etc, then while a bit disingenuous to the source material it would have been a bit more palatable to understand why there's suddenly a black female dwarf with no beard in middle earth seeing as that goes against every single thing Tolkein wrote when describing (in great detail) how every single race of peoples who inhabit middle earth look and act.

as for the elf, there's simply no defending that abomination, first off elves were always the tallest race of humanoid creatures of middle earth, (outside of some notable exceptions such as Elendil the tall etc), and were fashioned and moulded in the image of their creator, the one and only god of the Tolklein universe, Eru Illuvatar, who was always depicted as the stereotypical elderly white man with flowing white hair and beard, ALL eleven progenitors are white, inter species breeding is rare among elves, with only a handful of known examples, meaning that even if you afford some EXTREME artistic license for such a couple existing, it's never mentioned anywhere that elves ever went anywhere near Harad/Umbar regions or the far south of the lands past these parts where mankind existed in a more tribal and 'barbaric' fashion, meaning that there was no way for 'black' genes to enter the pool, making it biologically impossible for a black elf to spring up out of nowhere, and no amount of bullshit storytelling is gonna change that fact.

this entire plotline they are trying to peddle is tokenism at its finest, not only do you have the 'strong independent black female' box checked, you have the 'strong independent single white mother' box checked, you have the 'token black male character in a leading role' box checked, you also have the 'strong independent single white woman in a position of authority over the patriarchy' box checked, lets not forget the token 'little person multi racial representation' box checked too for good measure, outside of the token Asian character they pretty covered every single 'woke checkbox' that shows up on 'woke bingo', if i have missed any please feel free to add more but off hand i can't think of any.

[Nerovar]

Sounds as bad as some that fetishize a certain undead ranger.

I'll stick with this;

That's some great fantasy cover art right there.

[BeepBoo]

It's tired. It's been tired since 2015, and yet here we are still pretending to be outraged.

And yet BP is probably my favorite marvel movie ever made?

And yet, no one has given a palatable reason as to WHY it's fine to do this in some cases but not others? Sorry. Reeling against "but these are the people in power, therefor we're allowed to do anything we want!" is bullshit that isn't acceptable to me.

What's been tired since 2015 is still having to put up with dumb shit like representation for the sake of representation and ticking check boxes versus anything that makes sense. People who NEED someone like them to feel kinship and to like something are stupid IMO.

[Triceron]

Yes, but it's okay, because the videogame never took itself seriously. It exists as its own thing and it's meant for fun, it's not meant to be an adaptation. It's basically its own universe.

Meanwhile this show is supposed to be an adaptation of the Second Age and is supposed to fill the gaps of the Second Age. So if this show has writing on the level of "Sauron and Celebrimbor hug and merge together, the Eye of Sauron turns blue to represent their struggle", which is a complete retcon/reimagining of the story, that would be a problem. Because this show actually takes itself seriously.

In other words, you can ignore the videogame as non-canon, but you can't ignore this TV show as non-canon, because it's meant to fill in the gaps of the Second Age...

You can ignore both. That is an individual's choice.

There's nothing holding this series to the Book's canon. Nothing is going to be built on top of the show's self-contained canon, aside from potential sequels or spinoffs, which you can continue to ignore.

Just like PJ's Hobbit. Tons of changes in those movies. I recommend the Maple cut to everyone, which cuts out all the fluff and extra characters and subplots which weren't in the novel.

[Sluvs]

Yes, but it's okay, because the videogame never took itself seriously. It exists as its own thing and it's meant for fun, it's not meant to be an adaptation. It's basically its own universe.

Meanwhile this show is supposed to be an adaptation of the Second Age and is supposed to fill the gaps of the Second Age. So if this show has writing on the level of "Sauron and Celebrimbor hug and merge together, the Eye of Sauron turns blue to represent their struggle", which is a complete retcon/reimagining of the story, that would be a problem. Because this show actually takes itself seriously.

In other words, you can ignore the videogame as non-canon, but you can't ignore this TV show as non-canon, because it's meant to fill in the gaps of the Second Age...

The game takes itself way too seriously. You don't take it seriously, but that is a you thing. You can also choose to ignore the series too. Its just a little harder to do so because it is bigger. It just have a bigger spotlight.

[Grimbold21]

It would be amusing to see a book series where the world and characters are described as the complete opposite of what you normally see, and then see how apologists would react if the creators threw a bunch of white people in replacing characters and people with clear physicial descriptions.

Like Evan Winter's The Rage of Dragons book(s).