1. #7001
    The Unstoppable Force rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    The point is that in a 2 billion dollar show they are not using decent costumes.
    There is no need to exaggerate the budget. Season 1 was around $715 million. People lump the cost for the rights to bring it closer to $1 billion. However an article a week or two ago stated that it was Netflix that offered $250 million and Amazon's offer was actually lower though it didn't give the amount. HotD still has some complaints and "nitpicks" that equal caring about an undershirt on a Queen not being "real scales". It is just people hand wave those critiques away because they don't dislike the show overall like they do with Rings of Power. Hence why the person randomly brought up the Queen's Shirt again because their other critiques were being countered.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    I'm not questioning his desire to rule or to be "king" over middle earth in general or what his personality is.
    By removing the rest of the quote you ignore context.
    I didn't ignore any context. You used ... which broke up the sentence and separated the first from the rest. Not to mention even the forum rules say not to use whole post quotes if you don't need to.

    His pride still answers your question. He wanted to be king of all. The show implies a "falling out" between him and adar which gives a strong reason for why he would be seeking a "replacement" for his pride. It also gives him a stronger connection to be present for things instead of just the sea hobo Galadrial rescued.
    Last edited by rhorle; 2022-10-17 at 01:55 PM.
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  2. #7002
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    How am I outright lying? Jackson was going to make a watered down script with Miramax until it fell apart. He was shopping that watered down script to different studios. New Line Cinema is who told them to expanded their vision and add in all the things they cut. If it wasn't for NLC getting behind it 110% the movies as we know them wouldn't have existed. Urging and Encouraging are similar words. You are choosing to make a huge difference between them just so you don't have to admit that NLC made the project possible. It is just nitpicking a word I used when if I used the word you wanted the argument would remain the same, strange right?
    That's another lie right there. It was always Jacksons aspiration to stay as close to the source material as possible. It was Miramax and Weinstein who tried to force him to do a strongly cut version, and since Miramax/Weinstein held the right to use the material at the time, they imposed the condition that any other studio would have to pick up the costs, which Weinstein/Miramax back then considered to be a dealbreaker. They assumed that Jackson would ultimately give in, which he didn't. NLC picked up the costs and gave Jackson the funding to make a faithful adaptaion, as was always his goal.

    And no, it's not just nitpicking, you've been grossly misrepresenting the entire situation from the get-go, starting by the tremendously stupid lie that Jackson wasn't the key figure in getting these movies made. Which he was. And not New Line. They financed it, sure. They acknowledged the potential earnings and had the wisdom to fund a proper movie, sure. It's still Jacksons project.

  3. #7003
    The Unstoppable Force rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skulltaker View Post
    That's another lie right there. It was always Jacksons aspiration to stay as close to the source material as possible.
    And yet he was working with a watered down script and pitching that script to other studios. So he was clearly more interested in adapting the books then remaining faithful. I'm not grossly misrepresenting the situation. You are nitpicking between encourage and urged. New Line Cinema were the ones that got the movies to be as grand as they are.
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  4. #7004
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    I do have to ask.

    Did they really need to give the Dwarf Princess gospel magic?
    Wait what? I don't think she was singing gospel... it was more of a chant which was similuar to the chants that dwarfs sing. like the misty mountain song from the hobbit movie and how that was sung...

    Or at least to my minimal knowledge of gospel I wasnt seeing this

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  5. #7005
    Quote Originally Posted by Majestic12 View Post
    So, I've finished the show, and while I appreciate that they're kinda trying to do their own thing, some things don't add upp.

    The biggest thing is "Mithril" being explained as containing the light and can heal the corruption by just existing completely rewrites the context surrounding the elves. If Mithril has this trait by default, the elves don't even need the Rings of Power -- and more importantly, the Rings wouldn't even stop working after Sauron's ultimate defeat which is what forces the elves to leave after the fact because they can't sustain themselves and the land.

    Further, places like Greenwood who eventually turn into Mirkwood(where Legolas is from) would never change, because Mithril could just keep the decay at bay. Tolkien-wise there simply was no Ringbearer in Greenwood and thus they weren't able to protect the land like say Imladris where Elrond hangs out. And then Greenwood becomes Mirkwood.

    I really wanted to discuss the Sauron reveal here but I'm not sure if spoilers are allowed. Long story short, the showrunners have a lot to explain to make this line up with the general lore whatsoever. They've made big bombastic changes and frankly I'm not sure they're able to keep track of everything that now needs to also change or be explained.

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    To be fair, Galadriel simply "thinks" that he is dead/lost whatever - when indeed we know that he is not.

    I do think it's awful writing. They never even mentioned Celeborn when building Galadriel's character only to namedrop him afterwards as lost/dead. And then of course the whole fandom started shipping Galadriel x Sauron which almost made me physically sick.

    I am glad that the actors came out and clarified -- Sauron can't even love in that way and his motivation is ultimate domination no matter what.
    Im not sure the mithril plot is counter to your points…

    1) the rings were designed to amplify mithrils restorative powers

    2) when sauron made the one ring, he tied the elven rings to it aswell. When the one ring was destroyed, the elven rings lost their light aswell.

    3) greenwood fell to corruption because there was no elven ringbearer there, as you yourself indicate. This is not inconsistent.

    The power of the elven rings was always to “preserve”. I think they did something very creative tying it to mithril.

  6. #7006
    Calling out bad armor/cosplay tier armor (actually worse compared to some cosplay I have seen) is not nitpicking.

    Nitpicking would be asking why the fuck they have so many scenes of women in the show showing their legs, like seriously half the female cast had a scene where they walked just right to show leg (can only guess that like the nickelodeon/foot guy, there is an amazon/leg guy).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Veggie50 View Post
    Im not sure the mithril plot is counter to your points…

    1) the rings were designed to amplify mithrils restorative powers

    2) when sauron made the one ring, he tied the elven rings to it aswell. When the one ring was destroyed, the elven rings lost their light aswell.

    3) greenwood fell to corruption because there was no elven ringbearer there, as you yourself indicate. This is not inconsistent.

    The power of the elven rings was always to “preserve”. I think they did something very creative tying it to mithril.
    There are some big issues with it, as the leaf/mithril bit implies it straight up just heals the tree/the elves, and isn't consumed. In theory you can then just a large enough chunk of mithril that elves could walk past and they would be "cured". Also would mean that Frodo's mithril chainmail would be invaluable to the elves, and they would want it as it could save them.

    It is a stupid plot point to make, as it complicates things now and in the future while adding little good to the story (in my opinion). Like while having some details about it, they left it vague enough to not answer the numerous questions they themselves have now made. I am just left asking why, which to be fair I feel that way about so many of the decisions they made.
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  7. #7007
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    anyone else been posting a review on IMDB? Cos my review has been pending for like 4 days :S
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  8. #7008
    Quote Originally Posted by Orby View Post
    anyone else been posting a review on IMDB? Cos my review has been pending for like 4 days :S
    Did you rate it 5 or below? :P
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  9. #7009
    So taking a look at these last 2 episodes post Mt. Doom exploding...

    I really think Arondir was completely unnecessary to Season 1. He doesn't even show up once in these last two episodes, and as a POV character he has no real conclusion whatsoever to his 'arc', if you can even call it an arc. We just see him appear once throughout the 2 final episodes, and just as a 'cameo'...

    I really don't get what kind of story they needed to tell for him and why they bothered having so much focus on his character when ultimately EVERYTHING that was necessary to the plot ended up being given to Galadriel instead once she arrives in the Southlands. Everything. EVEN in the role as the only Elf who is actively shown helping the Southlanders after the eruption.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2022-10-17 at 02:56 PM.

  10. #7010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    Did you rate it 5 or below? :P
    I rated it a 5. Yes... But the review itself was very constructive... I mentioned all the stuff I loved and tried to be diplomatic as possible. While its easy to rip into the show I did think there was a lot of good. :P
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  11. #7011
    Quote Originally Posted by Orby View Post
    I rated it a 5. Yes... But the review itself was very constructive... I mentioned all the stuff I loved and tried to be diplomatic as possible. While its easy to rip into the show I did think there was a lot of good. :P
    Yeah, I don't doubt that, seen your posts.
    Just couldn't pass up the joke
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  12. #7012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    Yeah, I don't doubt that, seen your posts.
    Just couldn't pass up the joke
    lol. Yea... I remember my Last Jedi review took 3 days pending other than that I havent had a review take this long. I think it goes up eventually... good thing I saved the review to this thread if I ever have to rework and repost it :P
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  13. #7013
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    So taking a look at these last 2 episodes post Mt. Doom exploding...

    I really think Arondir was completely unnecessary to Season 1. He doesn't even show up once in these last two episodes, and as a POV character he has no conclusion whatsoever to his 'arc', if you can even call it an arc. The last we see of him is before the eruption...

    I really don't get what kind of story they needed to tell for him and why they bothered having so much focus on his character when ultimately EVERYTHING that was necessary to his plot ended up being given to Galadriel instead once she arrives in the Southlands. Everything. EVEN in the role as the only Elf who helps the Southlanders after the eruption.
    Disa has the same issue really. She was enjoyable, except the last bit, but kind of pointless.
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  14. #7014
    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    Calling out bad armor/cosplay tier armor (actually worse compared to some cosplay I have seen) is not nitpicking.

    Nitpicking would be asking why the fuck they have so many scenes of women in the show showing their legs, like seriously half the female cast had a scene where they walked just right to show leg (can only guess that like the nickelodeon/foot guy, there is an amazon/leg guy).

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    There are some big issues with it, as the leaf/mithril bit implies it straight up just heals the tree/the elves, and isn't consumed. In theory you can then just a large enough chunk of mithril that elves could walk past and they would be "cured". Also would mean that Frodo's mithril chainmail would be invaluable to the elves, and they would want it as it could save them.

    It is a stupid plot point to make, as it complicates things now and in the future while adding little good to the story (in my opinion). Like while having some details about it, they left it vague enough to not answer the numerous questions they themselves have now made. I am just left asking why, which to be fair I feel that way about so many of the decisions they made.
    The show made very clear that they had VERY little mithril to work with though. Their initial thought was exactly as you described, get more and actively go about healing the land. They needed to be able to do more with less, and hence the elven rings were created.

    Frodos mithril shirt WAS enormously valuable. Had frodo gone to mirkwood he might have healed the lands there. We’ll never know because the story does not describe him going there. The only 2 elven lands frodo visits are loth lorien and rivendel, both having a ringbearer.

    How is this somehow more vague than “the elven rings had the power to preserve elven kind”?

  15. #7015
    "We need the magic from this mithril to save the tree, but we don't have much."

    "It's ok, just mix it with gold. Then you'll have more metal."

    "An alloy? Sure...but we're not trying to create a stronger or better metal or something. We need the magic part..."

    "Naw, just do it, trust me, it'll be good."

  16. #7016
    The Unstoppable Force rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    Calling out bad armor/cosplay tier armor (actually worse compared to some cosplay I have seen) is not nitpicking.
    Commenting about an undershirt is nitpicking. Even more so when referencing a show, HotD, that has similar issues with undergarments or supports not being "practical" for the type/period of dress they are replicating. The Queen doesn't have to wear battle-accurate armor if it is essentially ceremonial. Why not go for comfort? It is one of those things that become an issue when you need to make it one.

    If the rest of the show was seen as good then most posters wouldn't care about the shirt as much as they claim to.
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  17. #7017
    Quote Originally Posted by Veggie50 View Post
    The show made very clear that they had VERY little mithril to work with though. Their initial thought was exactly as you described, get more and actively go about healing the land. They needed to be able to do more with less, and hence the elven rings were created.
    The Dwarves in the book timeline would have had hundreds if not thousands of years to mine Mithril. It wasn't newly discovered like in the compressed timeline we see in the show. It wouldn't have been scarce to the point of what we saw in this first season.

    It would have been valuable, yes, but much like any precious metal you would want to reserve it for quality crafts and not shit like paperclips and nails. The show implied they had to make the most out of that little nugget Elrond had.

    Frodos mithril shirt WAS enormously valuable. Had frodo gone to mirkwood he might have healed the lands there. We’ll never know because the story does not describe him going there. The only 2 elven lands frodo visits are loth lorien and rivendel, both having a ringbearer.

    How is this somehow more vague than “the elven rings had the power to preserve elven kind”?
    Eh, the show's canon clearly doesn't work with LOTR and effectively retcons it with plot twist shenanigans. If LOTR followed RoP's plot, a lot of things wouldn't make sense any more, this merely being one case. As someone said earlier, if Mithril were merely the macguffin that allows Elves to stay in Middle Earth, they would have no real reason to leave by the end of the events of LOTR.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2022-10-17 at 03:12 PM.

  18. #7018
    If the undershirt wasn't printed, there'd be no complaint. The complaint is a made up assertion that they were "trying to make it look like scale" when they've clearly, on other costumes, shown they know that scale is usually backed by a thick undershirt of some sort.

    Knowing this, if you look at the armor as ceremonial (read: fancy) it makes sense that someone might want to make a queen a fancy printed shirt to wear and match the scale she's wearing on top of it.

    It's fairly simple. It's nitpicky because the nitpickers are asserting something as true (that the shirt is meant to be scale) which isn't true, and then using it to knock the quality of the costume as shoddy, when they're working from false assumptions. But I get it, the printed shirt doesn't look as good or make as much sense as a plain shirt would - there's obviously been some weird design choices here.

  19. #7019
    The Unstoppable Force rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost of Cow View Post
    "It's ok, just mix it with gold. Then you'll have more metal."
    The show did indicate the purity/power of Valinor was the key part. Normal gold and silver wouldn't cut it at least for the 3 elven rings. It is unclear if the show will have the other 16 rings and unnumbered minor ones.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  20. #7020
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    Disa has the same issue really. She was enjoyable, except the last bit, but kind of pointless.
    At least Disa was just a supporting character. I don't think there's a good excuse for Arondir, who is literally a POV main character who ended up having zero conclusion to his arc outside of a 1 minute cameo showing him alive and back with Theo and Bronwyn. Like, that's it? We spent hours on this guy and this is it?

    The writers really made his entire story pointless. He doesn't even get any resolution at all with Adar, giving that up entirely to Galadriel.

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