Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[Varodoc]

Tbf, I still have trouble with the fact that Sauron has a human visage at all. He is supposed to be 2,5 meters tall in a spiky plate armor and swinging a mace the size of halve a Galadriel. This feels... diminishing. I really hope that this is just a form he took, like the Anatar one, and it will not be revealed that Maia are in fact just looking like humans.

That's because Halbrand is a show invention.

In reality, Sauron took on the guise of Annatar, an elf who was revered by the other elves as very fair and beautiful. This worked because Sauron is a Maiar and the elves are the one race that were allowed to live in Valinor, the land of the Maiar and Valar. With this form, Annatar enthralled the elves and got close with Celebrimbor, eventually convincing him to forge the Rings.

I'm still hoping Annatar appears in the future simply because he's stylish and beautiful:

[tikcol]

Like some other Grand Story shows, constantly going back and forth between connecting stories tends to brush past a lot of potential for world/character building.

I think a show like this could have been done over several seasons where each season focuses one the different races and what they are dealing with.

Start with the Elves, then the Southlands, then the Dwarves, then the Harfoots. And in each season, wrap it up with how it is connected to the BBEG.

Exactly. They could have used Sauron to tie it all together because he was present in most of those locations. Perhaps even use the migrating Harfoots as another perspective that tied events and how those events changed Middle-Earth as they traveled through it.

Instead they butcher the lore in the most obnoxious ways possible which wasn't necessary in the slightest and the end product is a mess of a storyline.

Seasons as semi-self contained stories with Anatar/Sauron as the anchor would have been so much better. Sauron didn't need to be a mystery to the viewer.(or tried to be because it was pretty obvious who Sauron was from the first episode he was introduced).

[Triceron]

Yet you have a double standard when compared to the other POV characters. As none of their motivations or "what they will do in Season 2" is any different then what we know Arondir will do. Who said he is my favorite character? Stop trying to deflect and turn childish just because your double standard is being called out for what it is. Heaven forbid someone reply to you. Lmao.

I literally listed every motivation of the other POV characters and you ignore it to say there's a double standard, lol.

How about you actually take the context of the conversation into account when you reply? You're so full of bad faith bullshit lol.

[Veggie50]

Yeah but by the looks of it they don't need to be amplified - the Mithril can solo heal. It's the Light of the freakin' Silmarils.




Aye in the original story, the power of the rings were tied to Sauron. But they're not anymore. The light in the Mithril is separate(as explained with the story when the elf fought the Balrog). So there's no in-lore reason for the Rings to "lose their light" or their power anymore.



It will be - if Mithril can keep the corruption at bay as a natural resource.



The Mithril backstory smacked of dualism (profoundly against Tolkien’s ethos) and writing shortcuts. This change has sent ripples throughout the whole lore - and frankly with the points above I am struggling to see how they can reasonably explain it.

You should take a step back and consider how much of this is your head canon, no offense meant. You seem to have some very clear ideas about the “mechanics” of magic in middle earth.

[Triceron]

That's because Halbrand is a show invention.

In reality, Sauron took on the guise of Annatar, an elf who was revered by the other elves as very fair and beautiful. This worked because Sauron is a Maiar and the elves are the one race that were allowed to live in Valinor, the land of the Maiar and Valar. With this form, Annatar enthralled the elves and got close with Celebrimbor, eventually convincing him to forge the Rings.

I'm still hoping Annatar appears in the future simply because he's stylish and beautiful:

From what I've heard others talk about, Annatar is specifically a creation from the Silmarillion. Amazon only has the rights to Lord of the Rings and its Appendices. The name Annatar never appears in the Appendices, so on a technical level, Amazon doesn't have the rights to the character or his story.

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You should take a step back and consider how much of this is your head canon, no offense meant. You seem to have some very clear ideas about the “mechanics” of magic in middle earth.

It's not head canon. It's what the show literally explained Mithril to be. Elrond explains the backstory of the light of the Silmarils seeping into the earth to become Mithril, and Celebrimbor and Durin both witness Mithril having properties that can stave off the corruption. What are you pointing at as being headcanon? This is literally what the show has made Mithril out to be.

[Kumorii]

From what I've heard others talk about, Annatar is specifically a creation from the Silmarillion. Amazon only has the rights to Lord of the Rings and its Appendices. The name Annatar never appears in the Appendices, so on a technical level, Amazon doesn't have the rights to the character or his story.

Behold... Ratanna, Deliverer of Presents

[Skulltaker]

No. Miramax wasn't funding the movie and he was authorized to shop it around under the condition Mirmax gets reimbursed. It was that cut version he was trying to get another studio to pick up. New Line after hearing his pitch asked him to restore his script and even make it grander. That isn't a lie as my earlier article indicated. The amusing part is you are the one trying to spin things in favor of Mr. Jackson by ignoring how he was going to make a two movie film for $75 million dollars and a watered down script until Miramax got cold feet.

Not what the sources say, dude. Stop lying. Jackson tried for three movies, Miramax tried to talk him down to one 2 hour movie with drastic cuts to the story, which Jackson outright refused. Weinstein threatened to replace him, Jackson stood his ground. He pitched the agreed upon two movies to New Line, they instead proposed a trilogy. New Line and Jackson shared the rights for the Final Cut, but New Line simply let him do his thing and never interfered with the creative process. New Line financed the movie, Jackson made it. Did New Line have a major contribution in making the movie? Yes. Were they the reason the movies were made to begin with? No. Are they the major reason we got the movies? No.

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Stop trying to deflect (...)

You could beat someone to death with the irony here.

[Raisei]

That's because Halbrand is a show invention.

In reality, Sauron took on the guise of Annatar, an elf who was revered by the other elves as very fair and beautiful. This worked because Sauron is a Maiar and the elves are the one race that were allowed to live in Valinor, the land of the Maiar and Valar. With this form, Annatar enthralled the elves and got close with Celebrimbor, eventually convincing him to forge the Rings.

I'm still hoping Annatar appears in the future simply because he's stylish and beautiful:

Oh I know that. But Elves are different. Mythical, perfect (in any source apart from this show), while Halbrand is just a normal and literally dirty human, it feels wrong for a Maiar, but I guess Gandalf also looked like a pretty dirty human, though he still had a much better aura about him (being played by one of the greatest actors of this planet did help too)

[rhorle]

Sauron didn't need to be a mystery to the viewer.(or tried to be because it was pretty obvious who Sauron was from the first episode he was introduced).

Season 1 could almost be called the prequel for the show. Similar to how Season 1 of House of the Dragons time jumps after setting up stuff. They've stated Season 2 Sauron will be inspired by Breaking Bad and The Sopranos. Sauron will be a complex bad guy. They just didn't want to jump right in. Fans of LotR likely wouldn't need it but not every viewer is a fan. They certainly could have executed it better though.

“It would be very tempting to make the first season of this show The Sauron Show, very villain-centric,” McKay says. “But we wanted that level of evil and complexity of evil to emerge out of a world that you’re invested in — not because evil is threatening it immediately. We wanted you to fall in love again with Middle-earth. We wanted you to understand and relate to the struggles that each of these characters are having before we test them in a way they’ve never been tested before.” https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv...-2-1235233124/

[Varodoc]

From what I've heard others talk about, Annatar is specifically a creation from the Silmarillion. Amazon only has the rights to Lord of the Rings and its Appendices. The name Annatar never appears in the Appendices, so on a technical level, Amazon doesn't have the rights to the character or his story.

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It's not head canon. It's what the show literally explained Mithril to be. Elrond explains the backstory of the light of the Silmarils seeping into the earth to become Mithril, and Celebrimbor and Durin both witness Mithril having properties that can stave off the corruption. What are you pointing at as being headcanon? This is literally what the show has made Mithril out to be.

And how do you explain Annatar appearing as a brief cameo in the movie trilogy (granted the scene in question was deleted, but it was also filmed in the first place)?

[Majestic12]

You should take a step back and consider how much of this is your head canon, no offense meant. You seem to have some very clear ideas about the “mechanics” of magic in middle earth.

Nothing I have written is headcanon my friend. Tolkien's version is what it is - and the show explained their version. It's a major retcon and it's all out there.

[rhorle]

I literally listed every motivation of the other POV characters and you ignore it to say there's a double standard, lol.

Right. You accepting their motivation but not that of Arondir is the double standard in the context of the discussion. I'm not sure how you missed that.

[Majestic12]

And how do you explain Annatar appearing as a brief cameo in the movie trilogy (granted the scene in question was deleted, but it was also filmed in the first place)?

Having rights I believe only means that they can't name him by name. Sauron as a shapeshifter could in theory appear as basically anything (including Halbrand). Tolkien never explicitly says what race Annatar appears at.

I wish they had the rights of Annatar for RoP - and chose to have him as an elf. He was supposed to make 16 rings over a long period of time. RoP only made two and now he's exposed.

[Varodoc]

Oh I know that. But Elves are different. Mythical, perfect (in any source apart from this show), while Halbrand is just a normal and literally dirty human, it feels wrong for a Maiar, but I guess Gandalf also looked like a pretty dirty human, though he still had a much better aura about him (being played by one of the greatest actors of this planet did help too)

I completely agree. While it was obvious that Halbrand was Sauron, part of me wanted Sauron to be literally anyone else.

Sauron is a Maiar, he was an angelic and divine being, I would expect a mortal guise that befits that status. Halbrand is a literal hobo with filthy clothes.

It's like the dragons in WoW. Notice how the Aspects (Alexstrasza, Ysera, Nozdormu, Deathwing...) all took badass, iconic, and mighty humanoid forms. Now imagine Deathwing disguising himself as a hobo, that's Sauron as Halbrand. It doesn't really fit the character, who would be too proud and self-absorbed to take on such a filthy form.

[rhorle]

Not what the sources say, dude. Stop lying. Jackson tried for three movies

The Hobbit and two covering Lord of the Rings. Mirmax later cut The Hobbit out of the project. Jackson kept trying to adapt what Miramax was saying he could. They didn't try. He actually cut his adaptation down to two movies that could be made with a $75 million shared budget. Two $37.5 million movies would have been nothing like what we got out of NLC. If New Line instead proposed a triology, restoring cuts from the script, and making it bigger and better then they clearly enabled the films to be what they are today.

Again you indicate I am right but only when you state it. They were the entire reason why the movies got made as they did.

[Majestic12]

In reality, Sauron took on the guise of Annatar, an elf who was revered by the other elves as very fair and beautiful.

To be fair, this is the Shadow of Mordor adaptation I believe. Tolkien never explicitly says that Annatar was an elf.

But yes, I agree with you, I hope that he shows up portrayed like this. It's by far my favourite portrayal of Annatar(and the one that makes the most sense). I don't like Halbrand at all.

[Varodoc]

Having rights I believe only means that they can't name him by name. Sauron as a shapeshifter could in theory appear as basically anything (including Halbrand). Tolkien never explicitly says what race Annatar appears at.

I wish they had the rights of Annatar for RoP - and chose to have him as an elf. He was supposed to make 16 rings over a long period of time. RoP only made two and now he's exposed.

He said Sauron took on a form that would allure the elves, so a form that the elves would find fair and beautiful.

Now look at the elves and then at Halbrand the hobo in ragged clothes, I don't think they'd find him attractive. But I can believe that they would find Annatar (as depicted in the videogame) attractive.

There's a reason why the Lord of Gifts is always depicted as an elf. It just makes sense. Elves are the fairest and most angelic race and the only race allowed to live in Valinor. It just makes sense that the "fairest and most beautiful Lord of Gifts" would look like an elf.

[Triceron]

And how do you explain Annatar appearing as a brief cameo in the movie trilogy (granted the scene in question was deleted, but it was also filmed in the first place)?

Amazon didn't have the same rights as the PJ films. It's a clusterfuck of a mess of rights, really.

And that scene wasn't specifically mentioning 'Annatar' by name, merely portraying Sauron in a different form, which is one of those gray areas as far as rights are concerned.

[Varodoc]

Amazon didn't have the same rights as the PJ films. It's a clusterfuck of a mess of rights, really.

And that scene wasn't specifically mentioning 'Annatar' by name, merely portraying Sauron in a different form, which is one of those gray areas as far as rights are concerned.

Well, I have no problem if they decide to give him another name.

I just wish that Sauron took a more dignifying and badass disguise. Sadly, "hobo with ragged clothes in the middle fuck nowhere" doesn't cut it for me.

[Triceron]

Right. You accepting their motivation but not that of Arondir is the double standard in the context of the discussion. I'm not sure how you missed that.

I'd already explained it. The fresh start was immediately followed with the 'What of our King?' line, and the episode concluded with Halbrand being implied to be the leader of the group heading to Pelargir. Arondir's story is tied to that.

Now that we know Halbrand isn't a King and is Sauron, and shown headed to Mordor, it leaves the Southlander story wide open with no real connection to Season 2. Sure, they're headed to Pelargir, for a fresh start. Does that even mean they will be in Season 2?