1. #7101
    The Unstoppable Force rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    Once Amazon announces a plan to remake LotR themselves into a show, I'll agree. For now though, the visuals make for a connection that cannot be ignored. You say you figure it was part of the licensing deal, but is there proof that Amazon fought against having their show in any way tied to the Peter Jackson movies?
    They are not in the same continuity. Warner Brothers controls the Jackson films and has their own cinematic universe that they are still creating things for. The Video games and soon to be Anime are part of the WB "universe". Amazon has their own now and even has rights to create spinoffs from Rings of Power. Neither are required to honor each other. Obviously some things from Amazon will look similar because Tolkien being the source and using popular imagery the Jackson films had.

    I doubt it is something the Tolkien estate would include since they didn't like how Netflix wanted to do a MCU. They pitched a Gandalf show, an Aragorn drama, and likely more.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  2. #7102
    I actually really like the show. My only complaint was the Hobbit stand ins. Like get rid of that story and I would enjoy it 10x more.

  3. #7103
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    But whats the difference if it was 2 or 3 in this context? the whole point of the elven rings being done in secret was that they escaped Sauron influence it is not? then how making one more would make any difference when he took part of doing the base for the two? his influence would already be mixed in the materials they used (which btw i don't know how one of then was randomly silver when they melt the dagger entirely and put everything in the same forge).
    Well, it's never really explained why Celebrimbor made 3 in secret. He did it before Annatar's identity was revealed. Maybe he was just so prideful that he thought he could make the best three himself, but he still used some of Annatar's teachings so there was still a connection between The Three and The One Ring.

    Yeah, getting 2 different colors from one batch of smelted metal is weird but that's pretty unimportant in the overarching story. The scene is meant to be more symbolic of Galadriel moving past her old vendetta (which the show had very clearly tied to her brother's dagger). I don't know, maybe Celebrimbor being such an awesome jeweler has a device that somehow separates metals of different color. Or maybe despite their efforts the metal wasn't perfectly mixed and one came out with less gold content than the others. I don't care because the color of the rings is completely unimportant and taking the time to explain the colors is unnecessary to the overall plot.





    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    A plot problem raised from then changing stuff now they have to fix someway that does not feel like its forced or nonsense to justify the plot.

    If Celebrimbor does the rings and handle to the other, why those will be corrupted and not the elven rings? why he would make 7 for dwarves and 9 for men when they established that 3 is the perfect number for ~~reasons? Galadriel didn't even said halbland was sauron and this was his plan too, because the characters would likely stop doing it.

    If its not him, its sauron who is going to do the rings in mount doom? with what mithril? and just free handle to everyone? but if the elves know about Sauron wanting to make rings they would not find weird that men and dwarves are getting rings of power in middle earth? they will not warn then?

    They will make Sauron sweet talk the dwarves into giving then mithril? He is going to put Balrong to sleep so the dwarves can mine or Kazhadun will fall and he will take control of the mines?

    everywhere you look the story seems to be convoluted and forced so the events would play out, when the event would likely play out normally if they had followed the original plot.
    What you're describing is a problem with Tolkien's part. Per the lore, Sauron takes the rings (except the Three) and lays waste to Eregion, and THEN goes around handing the rings out to the dwarves and men who apparently take them gladly. It's never said whether they're tricked or whether they just want the power regardless of where it comes from. The composition of those 16 rings is also never mentioned so they don't need to be made of mithril, but maybe in the show they will be if Sauron attacks or corrupts the dwarves of Moria. Guess we'll just have to see how the show pulls together these events that Tolkien never really described in detail.

  4. #7104
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    How does Halbrand's existence contradict the movies? The details that the show is giving weren't mentioned in the movies. You can say that the movies are meant to follow the lore to the letter, but the fact that they don't stray far from the narrative of the LotR itself leaves things open and it seems highly unlikely that Peter Jackson outright say "this isn't how MY version of the 2nd Age would go".

    This is indeed similar to the Star Wars in that the sequel trilogy is indeed still the same setting and continuity of the original trilogy even if the original creators weren't involved. That's just how it works when rights are sold and you're the first one to get there.
    Nah dude. Argue as much as you may, the only thing we can factually agree on concerning these films is that they are all separate adaptations from any other film or book material. It is not like the Star Wars trilogy, because Star Wars is one single canon and not a multiverse situation where the rights are being shipped off to different companies. Marvel is a multiverse, and both in-universe because they literally designed a Multiverse, and outside of it in terms of multiple companies having different rights for different characters and properties. Star Wars is one single canon, with anything existing prior in the Extended Universe being considered non-canon branded as 'Legends'. And yes, it's a very sore point for OT fans that Greedo Shot First is the canon because George Lucas decided to retcon it, and it has not been officially reverted since then.

    Rings of Power is making use of its own story through its own specific liscencing deal, and does not officially connect with any other existing property. PJ's LOTR is not canonical to the books or to Rings of Power either. Only PJ's Hobbit trilogy is canonical to his LOTR trilogy. And let's be clear that PJ's LOTR isn't the only adaptation that's made it to film; there did also exist the Rankin Bass Hobbit and the Ralph Bakshi LOTR films as well, which I will use as examples of other adaptations that aren't connected to anything else. All of these films are separate adaptations.

    Once Amazon announces a plan to remake LotR themselves into a show, I'll agree. For now though, the visuals make for a connection that cannot be ignored. You say you figure it was part of the licensing deal, but is there proof that Amazon fought against having their show in any way tied to the Peter Jackson movies? They certainly would have been the ones who made the decision to bring on people like John Howe.

    When it comes to the divergences, we come back to my giving them the opportunity to make things line up IN THE END. I understand that you're saying we shouldn't assume that the show will conclude in such a way that seamlessly ties to the movies, but at the same time we can't yet say that will not happen. My HOPE is that they will aim for a connected story, and evidence so far doesn't sway from that. But I guess we'll see over the next several years.
    If the Amazon Rings of Power wants to write itself in a way that tries to work with the Peter Jackson films, then all power to it. But it's clear that they are not actually connected in any way other than grandfathering designs from the films, and sourcing the same book material to build its story around. It doesn't default in being connected to the PJ movies just because they share some design elements and some of the artists who created it, and brought back Howard Shore to do the music for the intro. That isn't what connects these properties together.

    Amazon does not have Jackson's involvement directly, and Peter Jackson himself was part of the writing force behind the movies. Amazon is not molding their story to fit with the Peter Jackson trilogy either, as they have not outright stated any intent to even do so and the show so far hasn't done anything to bridge a connection outside of use of designs or literally picking out bits of dialog as a straight out callback to the movies. There isn't actually any plot that connects specifically to the movies.

    Design connections don't make them connected. Liscencing deals can offer the shared use of existing designs without having all properties be canonical to each other.

    One example is the Games Workshop Lord of the Rings Tabletop game, which made minis directly based on the PJ LOTR movies, but it also expanded itself to create figures and lore the PJ movies did not cover, like designs for new creatures or elaborating on the individual Nazgul, like a unique design for Khamul the Easterling who was never given any distinct form in the PJ movies



    The Tabletop borrows heavily from the Peter Jackson films, but is not canonical to them. It also builds its own canon.

  5. #7105
    Banned Ihavewaffles's Avatar
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    I didn't write this, but...yeah, the writing makes no sense...


    Sauron didn’t plan to get shipwrecked, trapped on a raft, and almost eaten by a sea worm twice.

    He didn’t plan on meeting Galadriel, an elf who, astoundingly, had just jumped out of her ship to somehow swim the entire length of the Sundering Seas, in the middle of the ocean.

    Sauron didn’t plan to be rescued by the Númenoreans.

    He didn’t plan for Galadriel to refuse to believe that he’d stolen a symbol from a dead man as he told her, then insist that he was a king while he insisted he wasn’t.

    He didn’t plan to be out in prison for theft and assault.

    Sauron didn’t plan for Galadriel to somehow convince Númenor to send ships to Middle-earth.

    He didn’t plan to be caught in a pyroclastic flow from the eruption of Mount Doom.

    He didn’t plan to be stabbed by a lance. (offscreen?).

    He didn’t plan to get an infected gut wound.

    Sauron didn’t plan for Galadriel to force him to ride six days to Eregion, a stronghold of his millennia-old enemies, to be under care of elven healers (who don’t sense he’s Maiar?).

    He didn’t plan for Celebrimbor to let him assist on a project he couldn’t have known existed.

    Sauron didn’t plan on some grand scheme to seize power.

    He didn’t even lie to Galadriel.

    She orchestrated everything that happened to him, often in defiance of his explicit requests.

    He was ignored because Galadriel always, always insists she’s right.

    Sauron didn’t plan on corrupting the rings.

    He didn’t plan to assassinate Elrond or Gil-galad.

    He didn’t plan to sabotage Celebrimbor’s project, or steal the mithril, or do *anything* he could have easily done to ensure the elves would either die or leave Middle-earth.

    Sauron didn’t murder Galadriel when she confronted him about his true identity.

    Instead, he offered her to be the anchor for his redemption.

  6. #7106
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Also something that is in the appendices that the show retcon:
    You mean the usurper who forces marriage upon a woman who never takes the throne checks who is the queen ... oh yeah that's definitely not a ret con

  7. #7107
    Banned Ihavewaffles's Avatar
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    I hafta wonder, why the show didn't use this for their story?



    Press release

    HarperCollins is proud to announce the publication in November 2022 of THE FALL OF NÚMENOR by J.R.R. Tolkien, edited by writer and Tolkien expert, Brian Sibley, and illustrated by acclaimed artist, Alan Lee. The book will be published globally by HarperCollinsPublishers and in other languages by numerous Tolkien publishers worldwide.

    Presenting for the first time in one volume the events of the Second Age as written by J.R.R. Tolkien and originally and masterfully edited for publication by Christopher Tolkien, this new volume will include pencil drawings and colour paintings by Alan Lee, who also illustrated The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit and went on to win an Academy Award for his work on The Lord of the Rings film trilogy.

    J.R.R. Tolkien famously described the Second Age of Middle-earth as a ‘dark age, and not very much of its history is (or need be) told’. And for many years readers would need to be content with the tantalizing glimpses of it found within the pages of The Lord of the Rings and its appendices.

    It was not until Christopher Tolkien presented The Silmarillion for publication in 1977 that a fuller story could be told for, though much of its content concerned the First Age of Middle-earth, there were at its close two key works that revealed the tumultuous events concerning the rise and fall of the island-kingdom of Númenor, the Forging of the Rings of Power, the building of the Barad-dûr and the rise of Sauron, and the Last Alliance of Elves and Men.

    Christopher Tolkien provided even greater insight into the Second Age in Unfinished Tales of Númenor and Middle-earth in 1980, and expanded upon this in his magisterial 12-volume History of Middle-earth, in which he presented and discussed a wealth of further tales written by his father, many in draft form.

    Now, using ‘The Tale of Years’ in The Lord of the Rings as a starting point, Brian Sibley has assembled from the various published texts in a way that tells for the very first time in one volume the tale of the Second Age of Middle-earth, whose events would ultimately lead to the Third Age, and the War of the Ring, as told in The Lord of the Rings.

    The Hobbit was first published in 1937 and The Lord of the Rings in 1954–5. Each has since gone on to become a beloved classic of literature and an international bestseller translated into more than 70 languages, collectively selling more than 150,000,000 copies worldwide. Published in 1977, The Silmarillion sold more than one million copies in its first year of publication and has gone on to be translated into almost 40 languages.

    Brian Sibley says: ‘Since the first publication of The Silmarillion forty-five years ago, I have passionately followed Christopher Tolkien’s meticulous curation and scholarship in publishing a formidable history of his father’s writings on Middle-earth. I am honoured to be adding to that authoritative library with The Fall of Númenor. I hope that, in drawing together many of the threads from the tales of the Second Age into a single work, readers will discover – or rediscover – the rich tapestry of characters and events that are a prelude to the drama of the War of the Ring as is told in The Lord of the Rings.

    Alan Lee says: ‘It is a pleasure to be able to explore the Second Age in more detail, and learn more about those shadowy and ancient events, alliances and disasters that eventually led to the Third Age stories we are more familiar with. Wherever I had the opportunity when working on The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit, I tried to imbue pictures and designs with an appropriate antiquity, an overlayering of history and of echoes of those older stories, and The Fall of Númenor has proved a perfect opportunity to dig a little deeper into the rich history of Middle-earth.’

    The Fall of Númenor will be published by HarperCollins with a simultaneous global publication date of November 2022, and subsequently in translation around the world.

    The streaming series, The Rings of Power, set during the Second Age of Middle-earth, will be released by Amazon Prime in September 2022.

  8. #7108
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    The Hobbit and two covering Lord of the Rings. Mirmax later cut The Hobbit out of the project. Jackson kept trying to adapt what Miramax was saying he could. They didn't try. He actually cut his adaptation down to two movies that could be made with a $75 million shared budget. Two $37.5 million movies would have been nothing like what we got out of NLC. If New Line instead proposed a triology, restoring cuts from the script, and making it bigger and better then they clearly enabled the films to be what they are today.

    Again you indicate I am right but only when you state it. They were the entire reason why the movies got made as they did.
    Again, I don't, because you said New Line was the driving force behind the movies being made, which is just a lie. The driving force behind the Movies was Jackson. You can shift goalpoasts all you want, buddy, you remain a liar.

  9. #7109
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    I still don't know how I feel about the finale. This show is so rough that you second guess the parts you enjoy.

    First, how do you do a finale while not even putting other storylines in a serviable place? The dwarves and people fleeing Mordor kind of just ignored.

    A lot of people called the identity of Halbrand and the giant from the start, I'm relieved they writers didn't pull some nonsense. It was annoying when the Slim Shady witches had the wrong guy. That sequence would have been cool in a more polished show.

    I think Halbrands actor killed it even if the writing was all over the place. He did some of as calculating villain who didn't do standard self sabotaging shit once they achieve a goal or get outed. The actor, IMO, played the scenes as best he could. I forced myself not to think too much about the way all that went down though AFTER he was outed. I would have just been better had Galadriel still broken his magic but too late to confront him.


    Its a shame because the it's not like the show can't be amazing but it seems like there's enough people sprinkled in places of power to hold it back. The irony.


    Hopefully the showrunners realize the potential of the show and fix it before season 2, when it comes out in 10 years. They compressed the timeline of Middle-Earth but not their own production.

    Resident Cosplay Progressive

  10. #7110
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    It's contrived to think that Galadriel's dagger is the only source of Valinor Gold and Silver that they had available. That it is even a plot point they used is quite dumbfounding, considering they're literally in an Elf city, that just built a giant tower for smithing, that houses one of the most reknowned Elven smiths. It doesn't make a lot of sense why they needed Galadriel's dagger at all, it just happened to be and everyone agreed it needed to be this specifically.
    To be fair here. The dagger is well set up from the first episode. That much at least I can grant the show, the Checkow's gun was used succefully. And I can accept that after thousands of years away from Valinor they ran out of the original materials, they braught then. Maybe there are some other pieces in Lindon, but time was of the essence and it was quite possible that Gil-Galad would have told them to fuck off if they had requested some old artifact to melt it.

    Of course then they melt the entire dagger, including the steel blade... guaranteeing that they get no pure gold or silver from it... apparently the greatest elven smith really has some deficiencies when it comes to how metal works...

  11. #7111
    It doesn't have to be the dagger. He was part of the trial and error and surely been handling the mithril himself. So you don't need the bit where she tries to stab him. I already assumed the mithril would be corrupted or under his control by then.

    Hell, as we know from the books he didn't need to be there for the elven rings and still have influence... Because his teachings on how to craft them is causing them to be linked to him. His gift was the lore of ringcrafting after all. We also know the link is stronger if he's there when making them probably because he can perfect it.

    These rings can be have either a weak or strong connection to him depending on how much involvement he requires and that's up to the show to determine.
    My guess is they are going for weaker or none at all. Galadriel was the one deciding to make three after all.

    It can still be technically correct.. but let's see if they handle it well.


    To make an analogy.
    It's like if I'm teaching you how to make a program. What you don't know said program allows me to take control of your device. If I'm there helping you making that program i can make sure it works flawlessly as I've intended. I can take fill control.
    If you decide to make the program yourself with my teachings it still has the control parts in it. It might not work perfectly but I can still control your device with less functions.

    Replace programming with magic and you got the ring situations as I understand them from the books.
    Last edited by Kumorii; 2022-10-18 at 06:53 AM.
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  12. #7112
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    A lot of people called the identity of Halbrand and the giant from the start, I'm relieved they writers didn't pull some nonsense. It was annoying when the Slim Shady witches had the wrong guy. That sequence would have been cool in a more polished show.
    It is quite frankly baffling how they managed to be wrong about this. They knew this guy fell from the sky, from the realm of the Maiar, while Sauron was already well established to be on Middle-Earth for centuries... how do you make such a mistake? Then they treated the big guy in ways that would most certainly make a Sauron kill them all if it was him.
    Also, who or what even were the Feminems? They can't be Ringwraiths because duh, no rings, but their spiritual bodies surely looked like wraith.

    It feels as if they were just put in there to give the series some Ringwraith like enemies, just as the writers didn't feel they could work a series without Hobbits... it is fascinating how little faith they had in the plots set down about the Second Age by Tolkien.


    They shoved halve of LOTR into it with Wizards, Wraiths and Hobbits because they could not fill a series without those.

    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    I think Halbrands actor killed it even if the writing was all over the place. He did some of as calculating villain who didn't do standard self sabotaging shit once they achieve a goal or get outed.
    But he did. If he wanted to win, then all he needed to do was kill Galadriel while she was in his Mind Control. Hide the body and voila, Celebrimbor would have crafted the 2 Rings just a Sauron wanted. The only reason there are rings at all now is Galadriels hybris, believing that she can outsmart the guy by making 3 rings instead of 2, not to mention that she hid the fact that Halbrand was Sauron, which would have made Celebrimbor and Elrond most certainly stop the ringmaking at least until they could be sure that Sauron had not tampered with the materials and crafting process.

    That is all basically just Sauron being veeeery lucky. Galadriel could probably not have helped him more if she had accepted his deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    Hopefully the showrunners realize the potential of the show and fix it before season 2, when it comes out in 10 years. They compressed the timeline of Middle-Earth but not their own production.
    I hope so, but from all their reactions to critics and what they already wrote about season 2, I have huge doubts. They do not seem to be able to deal with critical voices or see their own faults. Probably a result of that atmophere of (self-) congratulation that is very strong in Hollywood. "You are great, you write great, everything is great, fuck the critics."
    Hopefully Amazon tells them to shut up and get Peter Jackson to help them. They sorely need it.

  13. #7113
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post

    But he did. If he wanted to win, then all he needed to do was kill Galadriel while she was in his Mind Control. Hide the body and voila, Celebrimbor would have crafted the 2 Rings just a Sauron wanted. The only reason there are rings at all now is Galadriels hybris, believing that she can outsmart the guy by making 3 rings instead of 2, not to mention that she hid the fact that Halbrand was Sauron, which would have made Celebrimbor and Elrond most certainly stop the ringmaking at least until they could be sure that Sauron had not tampered with the materials and crafting process.

    That is all basically just Sauron being veeeery lucky. Galadriel could probably not have helped him more if she had accepted his deal.

    I want to clarify. It's one of the parts I had to really just stop thinking about. The writing makes Sauron look silly but the performance by the actor, IMO, salvaged Sauron.

    I can think and say, what Sauron did was ridiculous but the actor played the role well.

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  14. #7114
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    But he did. If he wanted to win, then all he needed to do was kill Galadriel while she was in his Mind Control. Hide the body and voila, Celebrimbor would have crafted the 2 Rings just a Sauron wanted. The only reason there are rings at all now is Galadriels hybris, believing that she can outsmart the guy by making 3 rings instead of 2, not to mention that she hid the fact that Halbrand was Sauron, which would have made Celebrimbor and Elrond most certainly stop the ringmaking at least until they could be sure that Sauron had not tampered with the materials and crafting process.

    That is all basically just Sauron being veeeery lucky. Galadriel could probably not have helped him more if she had accepted his deal.
    Honestly, when Galadriel went to Celebrimbor without informing them that Sauron was involved, I was half-convinced they would pull out a "Galadriel in that scene was in fact Sauron shape-shifting to get the Rings done", that would have explained Elrond's suspicious look at Galadriel like he's trying to figure out if it's really her.

    I'm not sure that would have been better than what we had though.

    I have to say most of Halbrand's grand scheme and whatever Galadriel did throughout this serie didn't make much sense to me.

  15. #7115
    I want to comment on this show because I feel like its getting a bad rap from some people's personal biases and petty semantics.

    I wasn't really interested in the show from the trailers, but I had 7 free days from prime so I figured - why not?
    After watching it all in six days I have to say I was thoroughly entertained and pleasantly surprised. First of all and mostly, it was just gorgeous, I was blown away how good it looked. Those sweeping vistas and soaring camera shots that brought some much life and wonder to the Lord of the Rings trilogy was recreated here on the small screen, and they did it very well. Years ago I was really hoping for some shots like that in the Warcraft movie, something to really show the glory of the Azeroth or even Stormwind, but there wasn't and I still think lacking that was one of the bigger missteps of the director.
    This really was one of the 'largest' tv shows I have ever seen.
    The story itself was entertaing and engaging. I sensed the showrunners really respected both Tolkiens and Jacksons work, paying homage to both, like the odd song. The books themselves were littered with music and songwriting, most of which I skipped over when I read them when I was younger but it was nice here, in a visual medium.
    I didn't lose attention, but I paced myself to enjoy it. The casting was great, especially the hobbits (harfoots). Some of them filled there roles so perfectly. Galadriel was great as well.
    I really felt this was a worthy companion to the Lotr trilogy. They seemed so much more aligned than lotr and the hobbit - which was quite frankly a huge dissappointment.

    I hope if theres anyone left on the fence of this one to give it a shot. I believe its worth it. Its a real shame there is so much talk about it but for all the wrong reasons.

  16. #7116
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    I'm just taking from the way you're writing that you believe this is a show that should never have been created because the premise is fundamentally flawed. That it was doomed from the start because they don't have the rights to everything. And I don't agree with that position
    You just agreed in the sentence before that and summarized my point perfectly. Then you made up something to disagree with. Come on dude.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    I am not convinced you're understanding what I am saying. You keep fixating on this idea that the combat needs to look realistic (ie as it would if it actually existed). What I am saying is that *realistic* and *what looks good on screen* are two very different things.
    I think you are not understanding what I have been saying which is that all combat on screen is fake. So making it look 'realistic' has nothing to do with whether it matches "real world" combat or not. For example, people cannot fly under their own power in real life, but movies are made that try and make people flying look "realistic". In that context, what is "realistic" is a measure of the final result on screen, not whether or not it actually exists in the real world. The skill and talent involved in this is the same regardless and has to be taken seriously in order to have it payoff in the final product was my point. I get what you are saying but your argument is somewhat tangential to what I am saying. For example, you could have a movie about two people fencing in a tournament and even that would be "fake" and choreographed even if the result looks "realistic" based on your example. The skill involved in making it look "real" is very serious work was my point. And when people watch movies and tv, that is the only measure of "realism" that most people care about, which is whether or not it looks plausibly real, even if it doesn't literally match anything in the real world. All combat on screen is not out of this world fantasy and therefore there are some fights and combat scenes that are much more grounded in reality. So this isn't a question about whether all combat on film is based on "real fighting" but whether the result is believable in itself as "realistic" looking.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    J.R.R. Tolkien famously described the Second Age of Middle-earth as a ‘dark age, and not very much of its history is (or need be) told’. And for many years readers would need to be content with the tantalizing glimpses of it found within the pages of The Lord of the Rings and its appendices.

    It was not until Christopher Tolkien presented The Silmarillion for publication in 1977 that a fuller story could be told for, though much of its content concerned the First Age of Middle-earth, there were at its close two key works that revealed the tumultuous events concerning the rise and fall of the island-kingdom of Númenor, the Forging of the Rings of Power, the building of the Barad-dûr and the rise of Sauron, and the Last Alliance of Elves and Men.
    Key point in bold. Much of this prior era were his own personal attempts at world building and writing that he never expected to be published, just like Hobbit itself. I don't think he realized how popular his effort would be and appreciated in its attempt to flesh out a world with languages, lineages, customs and traditions going back thousands of years. And unfortunately most creators and studios are not interested in doing the work because making movies and TV shows are expensive. Writing on the other hand is cheap and only depends on the time, energy and imagination of the writer. Not to mention writing fantasy isn't constrained by real world physics and constraints.
    Last edited by InfiniteCharger; 2022-10-18 at 02:27 PM.

  17. #7117
    The Unstoppable Force Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    Also, who or what even were the Feminems? They can't be Ringwraiths because duh, no rings, but their spiritual bodies surely looked like wraith.

    It feels as if they were just put in there to give the series some Ringwraith like enemies, just as the writers didn't feel they could work a series without Hobbits... it is fascinating how little faith they had in the plots set down about the Second Age by Tolkien.


    They shoved halve of LOTR into it with Wizards, Wraiths and Hobbits because they could not fill a series without those.
    Apparently, it's a mix of nostalgia attempt with member berries and self inserts.

    "member the fight with Gandalf and Saruman guys??? a girl did first!!'' and so on

  18. #7118
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    Of course then they melt the entire dagger, including the steel blade... guaranteeing that they get no pure gold or silver from it... apparently the greatest elven smith really has some deficiencies when it comes to how metal works...
    What really irked me is that they melted the gold and silver and steel altogether, threw in the mithril chunk that they had, and then made three rings of different colors...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Apparently, it's a mix of nostalgia attempt with member berries and self inserts.

    "member the fight with Gandalf and Saruman guys??? a girl did first!!'' and so on
    'member when he says follow your nose? 'member??!

  19. #7119
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    It's contrived to think that Galadriel's dagger is the only source of Valinor Gold and Silver that they had available. That it is even a plot point they used is quite dumbfounding, considering they're literally in an Elf city, that just built a giant tower for smithing, that houses one of the most reknowned Elven smiths. It doesn't make a lot of sense why they needed Galadriel's dagger at all, it just happened to be and everyone agreed it needed to be this specifically.
    The pessimist in me thinks they did it as an excuse why they can't just mass produce rings once they get more mithril.

    The optomist in me thinks this was mostly meant to be a big symbolic moment for galadriel, but given she's had no character development, handing the dagger away, the symbol of her brother, means nothing. Like presumably this should have been the moment she becomes a more wise ruler or stops being such a karen, but the show makes it pretty clear she's still her annoying self.

  20. #7120
    Elemental Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by InfiniteCharger View Post
    You just agreed in the sentence before that and summarized my point perfectly. Then you made up something to disagree with. Come on dude.
    Previous sentence: "Well of course, if they want a great show on their hands, they need a compelling story that fits well into the world Tolkien created. There is zero basis for claiming that this cannot be done. Whether it actually will is another question."

    You're claiming it cannot be done. So no, I am not agreeing with you. I am agreeing with a part of your argument, but certainly not with the whole.

    Come on dude.

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