1. #7141
    if celembrimbor gets fooled so easily, i have some nice bridges to sell him in eriador.

  2. #7142
    Quote Originally Posted by minteK917 View Post
    Im gona say it then, hate me if you want. She hulk was the better show to watch out of these two, not even close too lol. Honestly what suck is that people probably watched ring of power garbage more then andor, which is an actual fucking good show. But its flying under most people because its not fucking jedi nostalgia shit for the 500th time.
    Andor is the absolute best show for me atm. I'm not much for action scenes (get easily bored by them), but in Andor, I feel something for every simple character somehow, and lazors flying in fights feel impactful and makes me in a nail-biting-mood. Just the way these actors carry them self, small details on how to patrol and how easy it can go wrong. There seems to be put a lot of thought into every scene.
    I couldn't care about anyone dying in RoP, it's all, whatever. Showrunners just seems to, lets fast forward the plot now,ooh, lets stop a bit. I mean these guys that runs this show, must be one of the biggest amateurs I've seen. How on earth did they get grab of this show?

    I can't pinpoint my finger why I dislike RoP so much, I wanted this show to be good, I came with open mind, couldn't care about blacks here and there, but overall, this show was and is a disaster. You don't feel anything, and if you somehow get a good mood going, they seem to pull you out of it in the following messups k. That could happen in the LotR movies (gimli counting kills etc, but it was rare enough it could be a relief of tension, didn't bother me that much).

  3. #7143
    Titan Orby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by minteK917 View Post
    Im gona say it then, hate me if you want. She hulk was the better show to watch out of these two, not even close too lol. Honestly what suck is that people probably watched ring of power garbage more then andor, which is an actual fucking good show. But its flying under most people because its not fucking jedi nostalgia shit for the 500th time.
    I havent watched She-Hulk, but I have been trying to compare it to Wheel of Time since that is a better comparison both are massive fantasy universes. And I still think Rings of Power has more going for it than Wheel of Time.

    • Both suffer from similar problems but Rings of Power has a bigger budget with both falling apart towards the end.
    • Both try and add in their own stories over going by the source material, where as to give RoP credit they tried to make best from what is basically bullet points so I can understand fucking it. But Wheel of Time actually had the material and choose to ignore it and make their own story.
    • The acting and dialogue in Wheel of Time was better if not a little awkward at times. Rings of Power had very weak dialogue that switched between tring to sound like Tolkien writing and sounding modern, way too often, despite an awful character in Galadriel had some good characters in Elrond, Durin and Disa. Wheel of Time outside of Moraine and Lan the rest of the cast and the 'kids' were unbearable.
    • Rings of Power had better effects and locations, Wheel of Time had one place that actually wowed me and that was Shadar Logoth
    • Rings of Power had a memorable soundtrack. Wheel of Time I cannot even remember the music.
    • Battle and fight scenes, Wheel of Time has more, both both have are very underwhelming, although Rings of Power did have the village skirmish which was the closest we had to an actual fight scene.
    Last edited by Orby; 2022-10-16 at 09:16 AM.
    "People fear, not death, but having life taken from them. Many waste the life given to them, occupying themselves with things that do not matter. When the end comes, they say they did not have time enough to spend with loved ones, to fulfill dreams, to go on adventures they only talked about... But why should you fear death if you are happy with the life you have led, if you can look back on everything and say, 'Yes, I am content. It is enough.'" - Wynne ( Dragon Age: Origins.)

  4. #7144
    Banned Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    Every paragraph filled with idiocy.
    Pot meets kettle

    Celebrimbor wasn’t a blacksmith. A blacksmith is a smith who primarily works with iron and steel. Tolkien never called him a blacksmith and as far as I recall the show never called him a blacksmith. The few works of Celebrimbor that are mentioned in text are made of gold, silver, mithril, and gemstones.
    And surprise, Mithril is metal. Tolkien call him a Smith and an artificer, and lets not pretend that you or the show care about what Tolkien say


    Other than the rings, the only other work of Celebrimbor that Tolkien confirms is the Moria gate, of which his part was setting the mithril inlay. Celebrimbor’s craftsmanship skills in making elaborate and finely detailed work isn’t eclipsed by some dudes elsewhere figuring out how to make harder shields. Unless those Southland smiths are also making magic rings and magic doors then I’d say Celebrimbor is still far more skilled than they are.
    And you can figure that by working with dwarves for this long and even crafting the gates of Moria he would knew the basic knowledge of the "alloy", since is something so basic that men in the world know about. Then i would say the best "smith" would be a dwarf, not him.

    This is the one that takes the cake and proves that you really don’t know what you’re talking about.

    Him being a jewel-smith isn’t my headcanon.
    Ah yes, the gates of moria, a incredible jewel. Btw the thing is, the show does not represent him as a "jewel smith" .

    Your headcanon is that makes perfect sense for someone like Celebrimbor be unaware of creating alloys, because even if he himself was not a "black"smith he would know about because elves create weapons and armors as good as dwarves.

    But then again, this is just one of the many bullshits, in this episode alone, that you sure as well think is fine or make sense, like i said, no point in discussing any further, keep watching and enjoying the mediocrity

  5. #7145
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Pot meets kettle



    And surprise, Mithril is metal. Tolkien call him a Smith and an artificer, and lets not pretend that you or the show care about what Tolkien say




    And you can figure that by working with dwarves for this long and even crafting the gates of Moria he would knew the basic knowledge of the "alloy", since is something so basic that men in the world know about. Then i would say the best "smith" would be a dwarf, not him.



    Ah yes, the gates of moria, a incredible jewel. Btw the thing is, the show does not represent him as a "jewel smith" .

    Your headcanon is that makes perfect sense for someone like Celebrimbor be unaware of creating alloys, because even if he himself was not a "black"smith he would know about because elves create weapons and armors as good as dwarves.

    But then again, this is just one of the many bullshits, in this episode alone, that you sure as well think is fine or make sense, like i said, no point in discussing any further, keep watching and enjoying the mediocrity
    Got the solution for you, simply just don't watch it =)

  6. #7146
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    That is them saying it is an adaptation. Lmao. The word you are looking for is faithful and not literal. It is not a faithful adaptation but it is an adaptation. Jackson made up cahracter, dialog, and places but his films were still adaptations.
    It is them saying they are making up characters and a story inspired by Tolkien and not a direct adaptation of anything Tolkien wrote.


    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    It may have been a personal passion project for JRR Tolkien but it ended with him selling the rights that allowed people to make use of all or part of his books to create a story they wanted to tell. It is why we have video games, songs, RPG books, toys, etc that all only use the parts of his work that they wanted to use. Things that he gave up control of. You again create a strawman because not once has anyone said the ultimate goal of his work was to make moves or films (the same thing lol). He did however sell the rights so others could create those things based off of some of his work.
    And selling those rights does not mean that anything any studio ever comes up with matches what Tolkien intended for his work. Tolkien's work is Tolkien's, Peter Jackson's work is Peter Jackson's and Amazon's work is Amazons. All have separate rights based on the creative and intellectual property involved in each. They all are separate and distinct entities. Whether or not they follow Tolkien's work closely or not still doesn't change they are separate and distinct entities. So arguing about Tolkien's intent implies that anything with the rights to Tolkien is "Tolkien" which is just nonsense.

    You just said it yourself. Having the rights means they can make a story that does not have to follow Tolkien at all.
    And that is precisely what is happening in this series. So you cannot say that having the rights means following Tolkien' intent.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    You can keep trying to deny that Tolkien sold the rights all you want. It won't change that fact. It doesn't even matter if he would have been happy about selling his rights. All that matter is he sold up his rights and gave up creative control in the process.
    I never did so now you are just making up stuff to avoid the point that you keep being wrong.

    He never sold the rights for doing a 2nd age story based solely on the appendices in a multi season TV series.

    That never happened. You can keep ducking this all you want. When he sold the rights to the two books it was for those 2 stories.

    This series did not come about because of those rights, it came about because of another set of rights created 5 years ago.

    When he sold the rights for those 2 books it was for 2 stories set in the 3rd age, not for a story set in the 2nd age.

    Yes, in theory the owners of those rights could theoretically do a 2nd age movie but that is does not mean that is what he intended.

    And in reality, we don't really know if that is true, because in all this time those right holder have never attempted it for some reason.

    Those are facts and you just keep being wrong because he never created those rights used to create Rings of Power.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    And again, for that matter, IC is also applying the same fallacies of implying that Tolkien would have openly opposed the 2nd Age being adapted, because no one actually knows how this theoretical situation actually plays out. No film company ever expressed wanting to do such a thing while Tolkien was alive.
    I never said that. Please if you are going to refer to my argument at least get them right. My point was he never sold those rights intending for them to be used to make up a story of the 2nd age, solely based on the appendices. I have made that clear multiple times.
    Last edited by InfiniteCharger; 2022-10-16 at 11:42 AM.

  7. #7147
    So havent watched it yet just had one question.

    How are the Dwarves? That was the one thing I was looking forward to, Dwarf stuff.
    World needs more Goblin Warriors https://i.imgur.com/WKs8aJA.jpg

  8. #7148
    Banned Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    So havent watched it yet just had one question.

    How are the Dwarves? That was the one thing I was looking forward to, Dwarf stuff.
    You just rly interact with three, while the actors try to do a good job, their dialogue and storyline is butchered and don't make much sense.

    Its also heavily tied with Elrond for reasons, so, there isn't much dwarf stuff

  9. #7149
    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    So havent watched it yet just had one question.

    How are the Dwarves? That was the one thing I was looking forward to, Dwarf stuff.
    Best arc of the show, that I wouldn't say it is amazing. The actors do a fine job, and the looks are mostly good of them, however they are still stuck in the larger narrative which is garbage. The dialogue is pretty hit or miss, and some of the plot points they have them do are facepalm worthy. Lastly while dwarfs are in the show, there are several episodes they aren't present at all, and even the ones they are in they aren't the narrative focus, and only feature for maybe 10-15 minutes in the episode.

    That being said if they had changed the show to be only about dwarfs and taken the same care in the parts and applied it to the whole story I probably would have enjoyed the show, though I wouldn't have loved it like LotR.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    It's a strange and illogical world where not wanting your 10 year old daughter looking at female-identifying pre-op penises at the YMCA could feasibly be considered transphobic.

  10. #7150
    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    Best arc of the show, that I wouldn't say it is amazing. The actors do a fine job, and the looks are mostly good of them, however they are still stuck in the larger narrative which is garbage. The dialogue is pretty hit or miss, and some of the plot points they have them do are facepalm worthy. Lastly while dwarfs are in the show, there are several episodes they aren't present at all, and even the ones they are in they aren't the narrative focus, and only feature for maybe 10-15 minutes in the episode.

    That being said if they had changed the show to be only about dwarfs and taken the same care in the parts and applied it to the whole story I probably would have enjoyed the show, though I wouldn't have loved it like LotR.
    Kinda comes off as "Dwarves are good, but mostly because they're so little of them they dont have time to get ruined"
    World needs more Goblin Warriors https://i.imgur.com/WKs8aJA.jpg

  11. #7151
    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    Kinda comes off as "Dwarves are good, but mostly because they're so little of them they dont have time to get ruined"
    Kind of, to me it feels more like the writer for dwarfs cared more about developing characters in a story, rather than a story making characters act the way they do, if you get what I mean.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    It's a strange and illogical world where not wanting your 10 year old daughter looking at female-identifying pre-op penises at the YMCA could feasibly be considered transphobic.

  12. #7152
    Banned Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    Kinda comes off as "Dwarves are good, but mostly because they're so little of them they dont have time to get ruined"
    I thkn you are right, since by the end of their storyline Desa became full palpatine.

  13. #7153
    Celebrimbor Lore:

    Celebrimbor was born in Aman during the Years of the Trees. Among Fëanor's seven sons, Celebrimbor's father Curufin was the chief inheritor of Fëanor's temperament and skills in craftsmanship.[2] In turn, Curufin passed these skills – but not this temper – on to Celebrimbor.[1]

    ....


    The whereabouts of Celebrimbor during the early years of the Second Age are uncertain. However, in S.A. 750, Celebrimbor with many others of the exiled Noldor established the realm of Eregion near to Khazad-dûm, the mansions of the Longbeard Dwarves. This they did due to the discovery of mithril in the surrounding mountains.

    Eventually, a great friendship arose between the Elves of Eregion and the Dwarves of Khazad-dûm, such that was never before seen, and Celebrimbor became the Lord of Eregion and the greatest of the Gwaith-i-Mírdain, "People of the Jewel-smiths", who in their skill were second only to Fëanor, Celebrimbor's grandfather.

    However, in S.A. 1200, Sauron, under the fair guise of Annatar, came to Eriador posing as an emissary of the Valar; and while rejected by Gil-galad, the High King of the Noldor, in Lindon (where he was not even admitted to), he was nonetheless accepted by the smiths of Eregion.

    In c. S.A. 1500, the Gwaith-i-Mírdain reached the height of their skill under the instruction of Sauron and began forging the Rings of Power.
    https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Celebrimbor


    The Gwaith were founded by Celebrimbor and other Noldor of Lindon who settled in Eregion, close to the Dwarves of Khazad-dûm and their mithril mines. Their capital was Ost-in-Edhil (S.A. 750[1]).

    Noldor and Dwarves cooperated for about a thousand years, and their rare friendship was the closest between Elves and Dwarves in history. Celebrimbor helped to construct the famous and magical West-gate of Moria. The Gwaith were said to be the most talented artisans to have worked since the time of Fëanor himself (who was Celebrimbor's grandfather).

    Sauron, after failing with Gil-galad and Elrond, targeted the Gwaith. In the guise of Annatar the "Lord of Gifts" in S.A. 1200 he presented himself as an agent of the Valar and taught them how to forge the Rings of Power. The Gwaith were easily tempted since they wanted to bring to Middle-earth the joys of Valinor[2][3]. The Rings would prevent or slow the decay of the mortal world, preserve what was desired or loved and also enhance the natural powers of a possessor even if that would mean disrupting the natural course of the mortal world.[3][4][5]

    The Gwaith together with "Annatar" made several rings in S.A. 1500. Because of their friendship with the Dwarves, Celebrimbor presented King Durin III with a Ring of Power[6]. When Annatar had left (actually for Mordor) about S.A. 1590 Celebrimbor made the Three Rings[7] partly using the teachings of "Annatar".

    Then Sauron betrayed them and forged the One Ring. However, the Gwaith realized his plan and denied to hand him their Rings, resulting in the War of the Elves and Sauron. Eregion was devastated in S.A. 1697 and the survivors of the Gwaith followed Elrond and retreated to Rivendell.
    https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Gwaith-i-M%C3%ADrdain

  14. #7154
    If only they made seasons semi contained stories instead of the mess we got. Season 1 could have been about Numenor and season 2 could have been about the elfs and dwarves.

    They could even make Sauron the main character and the one that ultimately connects everything together between seasons.

    Instead we have a mess.
    "In real life, unlike in Shakespeare, the sweetness of the rose depends upon the name it bears. Things are not only what they are. They are, in very important respects, what they seem to be"

    End of quote. Repeat the line.

  15. #7155
    Titan Orby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    So havent watched it yet just had one question.

    How are the Dwarves? That was the one thing I was looking forward to, Dwarf stuff.
    Dwarves are one of the best things about the show for me. But I have a dwarf bias when it comes to fantasy lol

    I was wowed when I first saw Khazad-dûm




    anythign around the dwarfs feels like Tolkien's.. its the most Tolkien in the whole show. There is some dodgy dialogue at times but compared to the rest of the show its more better written. The stuff between Elrond and Durin, or Durin and his wife Disa, or Durin and his father are all great scenes.

    If I could make an edit, it would just be all the dwarf stuff... it'll be a 8/10 show :P
    Last edited by Orby; 2022-10-16 at 03:05 PM.
    "People fear, not death, but having life taken from them. Many waste the life given to them, occupying themselves with things that do not matter. When the end comes, they say they did not have time enough to spend with loved ones, to fulfill dreams, to go on adventures they only talked about... But why should you fear death if you are happy with the life you have led, if you can look back on everything and say, 'Yes, I am content. It is enough.'" - Wynne ( Dragon Age: Origins.)

  16. #7156
    Quote Originally Posted by Askyl View Post
    Too bad for you millions upon millions love it and you'll have to endure all 5 seasons of this amazing show! Must be hard for you to cope the world doesn't spin around you.

    I love people calling this fanfiction as if PJs trilogy wasn't. The movies changed most characters to the core and both removed, added and changed events that were vital to the story in the books. If people could stop pretending to be Tolkien experts because it's trendy it'd be great!
    Whoa that is quite the coping mechanism there, I'm happy you liked it though.
    Probably running on a Pentium 4

  17. #7157
    Stood in the Fire
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    Finale was one of the better episodes for me, only thing missing was a few scenes with Durin

  18. #7158
    'Rings of Power' Viewers Upset Over Recent Reveal

    Amazon's Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power series has had its ups and downs in its first season, but it lost many fans at Episode 6. That installment came with a revelation that left some viewers disappointed, believing it strayed too far from J.R.R. Tolkien's original work.

    In Episode 6, Galadriel suggests that Celeborn has died, and makes reference to his noble past deeds. This infuriated a lot of fans - even casual movie fans who noted that Celeborn is alive and makes an appearance in The Fellowship of the Ring.

    Fans were simply awestruck that the screenwriters would create romantic tension between Galadriel and Sauron. Even if they understood the parameters of Elven death in Tolkien's world, many felt that Celeborn's death was distractingly contrived to make room for this surprise romance.


    And because I like the pic;


  19. #7159
    Banned Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Clearly, Celeborn is alive, prob held in some prison from Sauron, and the plot of the second season is going to do "save the princess" in reverse

  20. #7160
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post


    So I'm right but you are just using semantics to not admit it. Urged is the same as encouraged. They asked for the production to be bigger and grander. NLC was the driving force at getting those movies made. With out them it would have been a watered down hatchet-job of a script or not made at all.
    No, what I'm saying is you're wrong, and at this point you're outright lying about it. NLC wasn't even involved for a decent part of the project. And to urge someone is not synonymous with encouraging someone. If you have to lie about the definition of words in the english language to try to make your point, I'd suggest you at least put some effort in your lie, not just make shit up.

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