Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[Majestic12]

So, I've finished the show, and while I appreciate that they're kinda trying to do their own thing, some things don't add upp.

The biggest thing is "Mithril" being explained as containing the light and can heal the corruption by just existing completely rewrites the context surrounding the elves. If Mithril has this trait by default, the elves don't even need the Rings of Power -- and more importantly, the Rings wouldn't even stop working after Sauron's ultimate defeat which is what forces the elves to leave after the fact because they can't sustain themselves and the land.

Further, places like Greenwood who eventually turn into Mirkwood(where Legolas is from) would never change, because Mithril could just keep the decay at bay. Tolkien-wise there simply was no Ringbearer in Greenwood and thus they weren't able to protect the land like say Imladris where Elrond hangs out. And then Greenwood becomes Mirkwood.

I really wanted to discuss the Sauron reveal here but I'm not sure if spoilers are allowed. Long story short, the showrunners have a lot to explain to make this line up with the general lore whatsoever. They've made big bombastic changes and frankly I'm not sure they're able to keep track of everything that now needs to also change or be explained.

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Fans were simply awestruck that the screenwriters would create romantic tension between Galadriel and Sauron. Even if they understood the parameters of Elven death in Tolkien's world, many felt that Celeborn's death was distractingly contrived to make room for this surprise romance.[/i]

To be fair, Galadriel simply "thinks" that he is dead/lost whatever - when indeed we know that he is not.

I do think it's awful writing. They never even mentioned Celeborn when building Galadriel's character only to namedrop him afterwards as lost/dead. And then of course the whole fandom started shipping Galadriel x Sauron which almost made me physically sick.

I am glad that the actors came out and clarified -- Sauron can't even love in that way and his motivation is ultimate domination no matter what.

[Adamas102]

You could have avoided making a fool of yourself with just a few easy google searches, but you're apparently incapable of that.

And surprise, Mithril is metal. Tolkien call him a Smith and an artificer, and lets not pretend that you or the show care about what Tolkien say

It's no surprise that mithril is a metal. So are gold, copper, and silver. A jewel-smith is someone whose focus is on creating jewelry out of precious metals and stones. The fact that Celebrimbor uses gold and mithril doesn't make him a blacksmith, nor does it contradict him being a jewel-smith as Tolkien wrote him to be.

And you can figure that by working with dwarves for this long and even crafting the gates of Moria he would knew the basic knowledge of the "alloy", since is something so basic that men in the world know about. Then i would say the best "smith" would be a dwarf, not him.

Except he did know about alloys. Making one was an idea that he'd already had and dismissed because it didn't work for his original plans. The technique Halbrand describes is one borne of a lack of certain materials (what he technically describes is making a low alloy steel using nickel), something Celebrimbor wouldn't necessarily need to know about. It should be of no surprise that a lot of techniques concerning smithing were determined by the materials present for the people using them. If the dwarves have abundant deposits of iron and coal then they can make carbon steel to their heart's content.

You could very well say the best smith was a dwarf since "in the tempering of steel alone of all crafts the Dwarves were never outmatched even by the Noldor", but you'd only be considering a very specific portion of smithing to say that. Celebrimbor's claim to fame (like Fëanor's) was in crafting marvels that weaved together magic and jewelcraft, not in making sharp swords or durable armor.

Ah yes, the gates of moria, a incredible jewel.

His work on the Doors of Durin was the mithril (ithildin) inlay. That's fine detail work (not to mention magical) using a precious metal, which is right in the wheelhouse of the best jewel-smith of the time. Again, another faceplant on your part since you couldn't even be bothered to look up what a jewel-smith was in order to realize that cutting jewels isn't all they do.

Your headcanon is that makes perfect sense for someone like Celebrimbor be unaware of creating alloys, because even if he himself was not a "black"smith he would know about because elves create weapons and armors as good as dwarves.

Again, this is YOUR headcannon to think that Celebrimbor was unaware of creating alloys since he literally said the opposite in the show. And again, this is all borne out of your ignorance about the subject as well as your desperate desire to nitpick every detail.

[Syegfryed]

It's no surprise that mithril is a metal. So are gold, copper, and silver. A jewel-smith is someone whose focus is on creating jewelry out of precious metals and stones. The fact that Celebrimbor uses gold and mithril doesn't make him a blacksmith, nor does it contradict him being a jewel-smith as Tolkien wrote him to be.

Again, not what the show present him to be.

Except he did know about alloys. Making one was an idea that he'd already had and dismissed because it didn't work for his original plans. The technique Halbrand describes is one borne of a lack of certain materials (what he technically describes is making a low alloy steel using nickel), something Celebrimbor wouldn't necessarily need to know about. It should be of no surprise that a lot of techniques concerning smithing were determined by the materials present for the people using them. If the dwarves have abundant deposits of iron and coal then they can make carbon steel to their heart's content.

"it should be of no surprise", except this is something you had to make up to fill the gap left from the show, you have to make up that the dwarves who teach him would not know of a specific alloy because reasons, coming back of how the writing of the show is poor. Because they also took his position of dwarf friend to Elrond.

You could very well say the best smith was a dwarf since "in the tempering of steel alone of all crafts the Dwarves were never outmatched even by the Noldor", but you'd only be considering a very specific portion of smithing to say that. Celebrimbor's claim to fame (like Fëanor's) was in crafting marvels that weaved together magic and jewelcraft, not in making sharp swords or durable armor.

And what he did in the show that present him as such? what marvels did he craft? Only Feanor craft the Silmarilions as far the show goes, he should not be famous after making the rings? since there was other rings BEFORE the 3 of the elves?

His work on the Doors of Durin was the mithril (ithildin) inlay. That's fine detail work (not to mention magical) using a precious metal, which is right in the wheelhouse of the best jewel-smith of the time. Again, another faceplant on your part since you couldn't even be bothered to look up what a jewel-smith was in order to realize that cutting jewels isn't all they do.

And i ask again, did the show present him as jewel-smith? if so, then i stand correct, but i didn't saw once

And again, this is all borne out of your ignorance about the subject as well as your desperate desire to nitpick every detail.

Or something 'borne" from the show bad writing , butchering of lore that changed things and didn't present him as such, The only nitpicking here is the one you are doing here, treating like this is the only problem, in this episode alone.

There is lots of bits that make the show worse by being there, "we tried everything! except we didn't this!", "bad guy want to make two? lets make three!!" or the the push softer or whatever that galadriel says, when they are trying to do totally unnecessary.

[crusadernero]

I was VERY surprised that episode 8 was season finale. Especially when season 2 is long way off.. I mean, they started production on it this month. Talk about keeping momentum. Literally living off the huge fanbase this already had.

The ending and the spoilers we got was more or less very predictable. Just when the show starting to kick off, its over. Sucks.

The buildup to how Mordor was to be also felt somewhat shallow and rushed. The technology the elfs posess and how they create all of the stuff they have, is also limited to the viewer.

I liked the different storylines that all are intertwined and connected. Some big, some smaller. It all leads to the same thing. Its a good narrative choice, especially as the seasons move along.

The show looks visually great. Some good acting, but most falls flat on the face. Several characters feels empty and without any purpose than "we have to have this person here".

Idk, 8 episodes for the first season is way to little. Especially when S2 is far off. We are probably looking at a 2025 date here.

And btw, Galadriel is a weird one. Throughout the whole season, she was the main character. Whatever she said and done, it was supposed to be the "right" thing. She just rushed through everything and everyone, while the enemy was right there. Kind of funny. What sucked with that character is that she has had literally no development throughout the season. Then again, that goes for everyone except for the wizard and sauron.

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So havent watched it yet just had one question.

How are the Dwarves? That was the one thing I was looking forward to, Dwarf stuff.

Very little. way, way to little. This show should have buildt up more story about the elfs, dwarfs, humans, numenorians+++ in middle earth. I would say atleast 2 more episodes that would dwelve into these races of the world so the viewer would know more.

The little we do get of dwarfs is that they are stubborn, funny, loyal and just. With lots of temper. As pr usual.

[Syegfryed]

Changing the subject, im still amazed of a show who had this budget made this, there is one that isn't even fully printed, rly disappointed with everything numenor related.

[Flurryfang]

I was VERY surprised that episode 8 was season finale. Especially when season 2 is long way off.. I mean, they started production on it this month. Talk about keeping momentum. Literally living off the huge fanbase this already had.

The ending and the spoilers we got was more or less very predictable. Just when the show starting to kick off, its over. Sucks.

The buildup to how Mordor was to be also felt somewhat shallow and rushed. The technology the elfs posess and how they create all of the stuff they have, is also limited to the viewer.

I liked the different storylines that all are intertwined and connected. Some big, some smaller. It all leads to the same thing. Its a good narrative choice, especially as the seasons move along.

The show looks visually great. Some good acting, but most falls flat on the face. Several characters feels empty and without any purpose than "we have to have this person here".

Idk, 8 episodes for the first season is way to little. Especially when S2 is far off. We are probably looking at a 2025 date here.

And btw, Galadriel is a weird one. Throughout the whole season, she was the main character. Whatever she said and done, it was supposed to be the "right" thing. She just rushed through everything and everyone, while the enemy was right there. Kind of funny. What sucked with that character is that she has had literally no development throughout the season. Then again, that goes for everyone except for the wizard and sauron.

I think its actually a really good decision to "lose" the momentum. Cause really, how much momentum do they have? I don't think the show is going aswell as they expected and they might have know this from the start, that this is not the optimal way to create a long living series.

So going on a break, trying to get a new start with a Rings of Power version 2/season 2 might not be a bad idea. It will give them the chance to rethink their production process and make something that hits a little more home than what season 1 did.

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Changing the subject, im still amazed of a show who had this budget made this, there is one that isn't even fully printed, rly disappointed with everything numenor related.

Not just the numenors, but all armor in the show is horrible, maybe expect for the dwarves. Nothing is as grand as it should be, it looks like cosplayer stuff and its simplified to an insane extent.

With that much money, in a show that is supposed to not switch location and last for many seasons, why did they not make some really fancy elven armor, that could be grand and last the entire show? The same with numenorians. Its not like they would be a waste to make, only used for a few episodes, its literally a show that will end with a big battle with 1000s of soldiers.

Its a goddam shame, that they did not use some of the money they have in preproduction to make something that would awe people and make them return again and again.

[Raisei]

I am thoroughly amazed.

Amazed how you take a franchise that is so beloved and so well created and turn it into garbage.

Even putting aside the entire woke agenda that the writers obviously valued more then the plot, the whole thing is just terrible.

The reveals were so completely forseeable that the "Mystery Characters" might as well have worn a sign telling you who they are, maybe a nameplate over their heads. If the writers really felt like they were creating a mystery then I can only pity them and advice them to go back to school and learn about mystery writing, if they didn't then I do not understand what the point of it all was.
They could have made the story very different by allowing us to see who is who from the start. Showing us how Sauron was manipulating events in the background, steering people into the positions where he wants them. That could have been interesting, similar to the Palpatine story.
At the moment it feels so contrived. Nothing would have happened if Galadriel hadn't convinced him to return with her. The second Dark Lord would not have existed at all, neither would the rings or the wars of the Third Age. It is now all Galadriels fault.

Not to mention how contrived it was how she finally got the message. She apparently studied all of Numenors library to figure out that Halbrand is of royal blood, but the texts there never stated that the line died, nor do any of the people living in the Southlands have any idea that their kings died out... only the texts in the elven city of all places finally tell her the truth. It's just a classical trope of bad writing, the reveal had to happen at this point, so the information was suddenly avaiable without any rhyme or reason why it is. Same with the line that Celebrimbor drops that makes her suspicious. It is such a specific line that you know it is only said to push Galadriel to the realization.
And then Sauron just poofs away. His work unfinished, neither killing Galadriel, nor erasing her memory or whatever. He just goes away and let's her ruin his plan. She just had to tell Celebrimbor that it wasn't a good idea after all. Okay, maybe he forsaw that she was actually dumb enough to still go through with the creation of the Rings despite knowing that it was what Sauron wanted... uuugh...

I also love how Galadriel doesn't tell anyone about Halbrand, ensuring that there is no reason anyone will stop him if he is seen. Why does she do this? Well, to protect herself of course. She is afraid the elves will think she was working with him the entire time. Something that Gil-Galad already suspected and the show proves him right...
Her constant arrogance and selfishness is unbelievable. She literally unleashed the Dark Lord on Middle-Earth because of her addiction to vengeance and now she helped him knowlingly... she might have as well joined Sauron, I just don't see how that would have changed her character for the worse.

Heck Sauron is the most understandable and relatable character in this, along with Adar. He wanted her to be his queen to rule over a world as a benevolent king. There is nothing even inherently evil about that. Without our preconceived notion of Sauron as the big bad, nothing in this series has told us that he would not be a good king. Both Gil-Galad and the Dwarf king have made terrible and selfish choices, yet we somehow are to think he would be worse? I am not buying it.
He is even aware that he might be corrupted and begs Galadriel to act as his counterweight to prevent this and her only reason for saying no is "You evul!!", like a child would reply. She has so little self-reflection that she doesn't understand that all the things she saw in him before are still there.

And even if she was completely convinced that he wasn't trustworthy, then she could have played along, tricked him into walking back into the city, where he could be surrounded by guards. But nope, she is convinced that she, with just a dagger, can kill the Dark Lord. Riiight...

Really, I hope for the next season they use some of those billions to hire some decent writers. This whole season was just painful to watch...

[jonnysensible]

Changing the subject, im still amazed of a show who had this budget made this, there is one that isn't even fully printed, rly disappointed with everything numenor related.

i really dont remember a shot being zoomed into his armpit

[Varodoc]

Halbrand being Sauron was such a good plot twist that 99% of the people already figured it out before the show even started (the remaining 1% were just on copium about the writing being more complex and making Halbrand the future Witch King).

It reminds me of when it was revealed that Littlefinger orchestrated the War of the Five Kings. Or when it was revealed that Frey and Bolton were allied with Tywin. I applaud this writing! I love these plot twists so much!!!

Another stunning performance by slay queen Galadriel as well.

But even if Halbrand is evil, I have faith in slay queen. Somehow she will fix him, I'm sure of it, and it will be awesooome to see!!!

[crusadernero]

I think its actually a really good decision to "lose" the momentum. Cause really, how much momentum do they have? I don't think the show is going aswell as they expected and they might have know this from the start, that this is not the optimal way to create a long living series.

So going on a break, trying to get a new start with a Rings of Power version 2/season 2 might not be a bad idea. It will give them the chance to rethink their production process and make something that hits a little more home than what season 1 did.

Highly doubt it. Its one thing to work on a show and release season 1, its another producing season 2. They have more time before anything is launched, now they dont. Its not like they can wait to 2026-2027 with S2.

The actors have been picked. The roadmap for the stories they want to tell has been made. The only thing they really can change is how they tell the story, thats about it. Tweaks can be made, sure, but this is what we are going to get in the future too.

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Halbrand being Sauron was such a good plot twist that 99% of the people already figured it out before the show even started (the remaining 1% were just on copium about the writing being more complex and making Halbrand the future Witch King).

It reminds me of when it was revealed that Littlefinger orchestrated the War of the Five Kings. Or when it was revealed that Frey and Bolton were allied with Tywin. I applaud this writing! I love these plot twists so much!!!

Another stunning performance by slay queen Galadriel as well.

But even if Halbrand is evil, I have faith in slay queen. Somehow she will fix him, I'm sure of it, and it will be awesooome to see!!!

Yeah Halbrand being Sauron was a given. Sucks it took whole of season 1 to reveal it. When they finally did, it ended. lol.

Galadriel will probably try to convince Halbrand that he is a good boi and doesnt need to do evil stuff.

[Kumorii]

Galadriel will probably try to convince Halbrand that he is a good boi and doesnt need to do evil stuff.

They've already stated they want him to be Walter White... so most likely yeah.

[crusadernero]

They've already stated they want him to be Walter White... so most likely yeah.

Meh. I want Sauron to be an evil master strategiest. That outplays most of his enemies, but in the end the "good guys" eventually win somehow. I mean its LoTR so we sort of know how it ends anyway. Unless Amazon goes bananas and end it with Sauron being a happy good boi, and that would be madness.

[Majestic12]

Halbrand being Sauron was such a good plot twist that 99% of the people already figured it out before the show even started

It was leaked by some dude on Reddit, lol. People were sceptical to the poster's list of leaks but all of them turned out to be true.

[Kumorii]

Meh. I want Sauron to be an evil master strategiest. That outplays most of his enemies, but in the end the "good guys" eventually win somehow. I mean its LoTR so we sort of know how it ends anyway. Unless Amazon goes bananas and end it with Sauron being a happy good boi, and that would be madness.

I mean... *points at RoP*.

[Varodoc]

It was leaked by some dude on Reddit, lol. People were sceptical to the poster's list of leaks but all of them turned out to be true.

You didn't need a leak to figure that out, literally just look at the dude. No one sane would trust a guy who looks like Halbrand irl.

Literally just look at him, there's not much left to say. You don't need a leak to figure out that the guy is shady and this was a promotional image:

[VinceVega]

Changing the subject, im still amazed of a show who had this budget made this, there is one that isn't even fully printed, rly disappointed with everything numenor related.

Oh please. No one would have noticed this except some idiots watching the show 20 times to find stuff to complain about...

[bledgor]

Oh please. No one would have noticed this except some idiots watching the show 20 times to find stuff to complain about...

I noticed it first watch through, was pretty obvious. A LOT of the armor/costumes were straight up bad. I mean the Numenorean helms were so loose fitting they looked more like buckets than helms.

[Raisei]

They've already stated they want him to be Walter White... so most likely yeah.

But... the whole point of Walter White was that he was a deeply flawed and evil person, mainly because his constant superiority complex and resentment for anyone that is more succesful then him despite being less capable (in his eyes) kept him unsatisfied with whatever he had. Providing for his family was an excuse to justify himself, but even after he had provided enough for 10 families and lost his wife and son he couldn't stop his ambition. He needed an empire and most likely even that would not have been enough.

I can see Halbrand using a similar justification, doing everything "to heal Middle-Earth" and "for the people", but the writers aren't remotely skilled enough to create a character as complex as Walter White. If they wanted that then they should have had Galadriel actually accept his deal and believe she can control his evil.

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Oh please. No one would have noticed this except some idiots watching the show 20 times to find stuff to complain about...

The point isn't even that it was noticed. The point is that in a 2 billion dollar show they are not using decent costumes. House of the Dragon has a far lower budget and still has far superior costumes.

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You didn't need a leak to figure that out, literally just look at the dude. No one sane would trust a guy who looks like Halbrand irl.

Literally just look at him, there's not much left to say. You don't need a leak to figure out that the guy is shady and this was a promotional image:

Tbf, I still have trouble with the fact that Sauron has a human visage at all. He is supposed to be 2,5 meters tall in a spiky plate armor and swinging a mace the size of halve a Galadriel. This feels... diminishing. I really hope that this is just a form he took, like the Anatar one, and it will not be revealed that Maia are in fact just looking like humans.

[s_bushido]

Oh please. No one would have noticed this except some idiots watching the show 20 times to find stuff to complain about...

That nitpick is made all the more asinine by two simple facts: There are other Numenor costumes with gilded "printed-on" motiffs, and if they'd wanted to give her a quilted undershirt they could have easily done so:



But they chose to go with something that would make it look like she was covered in shiny scales instead. You know...because she's a queen and has appearances to keep up. Hence being covered in gold in the first place.

I mean, I challenge anyone to just look at Elendil's costume and try to tell me with a straight face that they didn't care about the quality of these costumes.

[Syegfryed]

I mean, I challenge anyone to just look at Elendil's costume and try to tell me with a straight face that they didn't care about the quality of these costumes.

Credit to when its good, the only quality of armor i can remember on top of my head is the ones Galadriel used, with the exception of the one going to her chin, quite realistic and functional (the nonsense is how the numenorians had one elven plate armor for her there though).

His outfit seems to me like cosplay, his helmet don't even look like tis fitting right.

I also don't understand the pick on scales in the armor, maybe because it was easy to fake with the printing

Oh please. No one would have noticed this except some idiots watching the show 20 times to find stuff to complain about...

If you are paying attention to the show, you could see easily, but i doubt many people were actually doing so, or just sleeping/zooning off.

i really dont remember a shot being zoomed into his armpit

You don't need to zoom it to see it, you can see in the episodes, the combat armor also show plenty of times is fabric/printed