Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[BeepBoo]

Better get used to it. This stuff is already getting institutionalized pretty much everywhere in the west. Just look at awards like the Oscars implementing rules that only movies that meet certain diversity criteria can be eligible to win 'best picture'. Think of that what you will but it's not going away anytime soon.

I just don't understand why they can't wait the 20 or so years it will take for modern stories to be told with completely new IPs that will reflect all this new stuff people seem to care about. Stop re-writing, re-envisioning, re-inventing things that already exist. Just fucking get your own new shit popular enough to warrant a TV show.

Now you might dislike or disagree with it, which is another discussion that is off limits for this forum, but the reasoning is sound at least.

Not at all. Trying to force fairness via the exact means that created the unfairness isn't balancing the scales. It's showing that it's ok to engage in the behavior.

[Triceron]

I remember seeing a really nice shot of Numenor. Also a cool shot of someone who may be Gil Galad. Also a shot or two of Elrond. Funny how people get triggered when they see a lady or a person of color in a one minute trailer and quickly take out their "woke checkbox." Why exactly are people so scared of or angry about a little color in their fantasy world? It is quite possible that these trailers are cut like this to trigger these poor folks that are intimidated and scared by diversity. It sure does create a lot of free advertising.

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Again, you "literally" assume the timeline from a "literal" one minute teaser trailer. You "literally' are creating a timelines out of nothing. You "literally" have no idea if there are flashbacks. You "literally" have no idea if the series will jump from time period to other time periods to tell different stories. All you "literally" know is that you are "literally" upset because you saw women and people of color.

It's upsetting because its unnecessary.

The overall message of 'unnecessary' is just getting conflated with the use of buzzwords to emphasize the frustrations people have with the changes, which is happening in more than just Lord of the Rings.

I may not personally agree with complaints over the changes, but it's quite understandable once you get past the buzzwords and see why people are really bent out of shape over the changes. LOTR is a very specific setting in a very defined world, and changing the world elements does affect people's enjoyment of the series.

Similar things happened in Book of Boba Fett where you have bright colored chrome space Vespas on Tatooine, or the Wheel of Time series randomly assigning mixed races in what should be very old backwater towns that would not normally have many mixed races (since it literally gets bred out over centuries). These are world breaking changes, even if they are minor.

[BigToast]

You mean something that the directors said themselves?

I see. I hadn't read the vanity fair article yet so fair enough, they are compressing the timeline and that's fair criticism I guess. But I still believe you are "literally" more upset about the women and people of color. I don't believe that "compressing timelines" is on your Woke Checklist. I could be wrong though.

[Dhrizzle]

Battle for Middle earth 2 was quite good as well. Still play it at least once a year.

Lego Lord of the Rings is probably top.

Shadow of Mordor (first one) was pretty good. There were liberties taken with the lore but the way the changes were made showed they at least understood the lore before breaking it.

Shadow of War just seemed bad. I started out confused as to what time period it started in due to them massively switching stuff around then gave up altogether when it turned out the hideous spider monster also had to be sexy.

[Shadowferal]

Are you suggesting you don't hate the female dwarf because she doesn't have a full beard? Only reason to bring it up in relation to me simply saying that people do indeed read books.

We're I to make a similar assumption of you, I'd say you hated bearded dwarven women. So...why do you hate such?

See how that works?

Dude, I've read the Wheel of Time thread lol Claims/accusations for such were duly warranted. Did you ever even get around to actually finishing it yet?

You mean the series that I reread twice every year with select passages reread moreso?
Or are you bitching about the criticism of the idiocy of Rafe deciding that a storyline involving women holding power wasn't feminist enough...and needed to be modernized...?

People like you are why I barely come to this specific sub-forum, and its a shame that there are so many like you.

buh-bye

[Khaza-R]

I see. I hadn't read the vanity fair article yet so fair enough, they are compressing the timeline and that's fair criticism I guess. But I still believe you are "literally" more upset about the women and people of color. I don't believe that "compressing timelines" is on your Woke Checklist. I could be wrong though.

Not sure what you're talking about considering I've never criticized any of those things in this thread. You seem to just be looking for a fight on the internet, dude.

[Sluvs]

I just don't understand why they can't wait the 20 or so years it will take for modern stories to be told with completely new IPs that will reflect all this new stuff people seem to care about. Stop re-writing, re-envisioning, re-inventing things that already exist. Just fucking get your own new shit popular enough to warrant a TV show.


Not at all. Trying to force fairness via the exact means that created the unfairness isn't balancing the scales. It's showing that it's ok to engage in the behavior.

The unfairness was not caused due to the lack of representation, it is only one of many consequences of how society has treated them. That being said, I'm not interested in discussing racism and its many ramifications in here.

[BigToast]

Not sure what you're talking about considering I've never criticized any of those things in this thread. You seem to just be looking for a fight on the internet, dude.

My apologies. I confused you with Rogoth, the "literal" Woke Checklist guy.

[Sluvs]

Lego Lord of the Rings is probably top.

Shadow of Mordor (first one) was pretty good. There were liberties taken with the lore but the way the changes were made showed they at least understood the lore before breaking it.

Shadow of War just seemed bad. I started out confused as to what time period it started in due to them massively switching stuff around then gave up altogether when it turned out the hideous spider monster also had to be sexy.

I fucking loved both shadows games. I think they are honestly amazing. The lore is all messed up, but i really liked them both. There was another game, war on the north for the ps3 maybe? cant remember the name, I really liked it, even though i never finished it.

[AcidicSyn]

Were you guys this upset when they cast a white guy to play Ged in Earthsea? Because being red/brown-copper skinned is a pretty important part of his character and I don't remember anyone bitching about that (except Ursula).


on topic: I'm a bit concerned about some of the creative licensing they're going to have to take. Someone told me they're trying to compress the almost the whole second age into "the lifespan of one human"? If that's true, even if its a numenorian, I don't know if I like that- rather they just jumped around the timeline in that case.

As for Disa, Dwarves, all dwarves, are supposed to have beards I believe. But meh, maybe she shaves it. Heck, maybe she shaves it and its a point of drama between her and her Kin and she's driven out of Khazad-dûm for shaving her beard, I dunno, point is I'll get over it so long as she can act and gives me a good show for the dwarves.

speaking of Khazad-dûm, thats frankly the most important bit for me and I will continue repeating this. Show me Khazad-dûm, but, I want a rather specific "money shot". In fellowship, Gandalf "Risks a little more light" and we get this big wide shot of the columns and wide open halls of Moria. I want that same exact shot, recreated 1:1 except, the halls are alive with Dwarves. Guards, traders, tables, benches, armor on the walls, everything lit and glorious, with at least one dwarf swilling malt beer and red meat off the bone.

I want like a full 3-5 minutes of no dialog while the camera just pans through the place.

[Shadowferal]

It would be amusing to see a book series where the world and characters are described as the complete opposite of what you normally see, and then see how apologists would react if the creators threw a bunch of white people in replacing characters and people with clear physicial descriptions.

Imagine taking lotr and putting a "Great Zimbabwe" spin..I think that'd be amazing.

[Nurasu]

this entire plotline they are trying to peddle is tokenism at its finest, not only do you have the 'strong independent black female' box checked, you have the 'strong independent single white mother' box checked, you have the 'token black male character in a leading role' box checked, you also have the 'strong independent single white woman in a position of authority over the patriarchy' box checked, lets not forget the token 'little person multi racial representation' box checked too for good measure, outside of the token Asian character they pretty covered every single 'woke checkbox' that shows up on 'woke bingo', if i have missed any please feel free to add more but off hand i can't think of any.

Is this parody? Like do you even watch television that isn't Ax Men? This is literally hilarious.

[BeepBoo]

Were you guys this upset when they cast a white guy to play Ged in Earthsea? Because being red-copper skinned is a pretty important part of his character and I don't remember anyone bitching about that (except Ursula).

If only I knew what the fuck "Earthsea" was? Did anyone even watch this to get upset about it? Does whatever the fuck it's based on even HAVE a fandom?

The unfairness was not caused due to the lack of representation, it is only one of many consequences of how society has treated them. That being said, I'm not interested in discussing racism and its many ramifications in here.

Then don't bring anything up if you're not willing to discuss it? As I said, I don't buy into the modern definition of racism as only mattering if it comes from "those in power". It's fucking stupid. I don't lament "lost potential" or "robbed futures." I don't care about what could have been.

[Dhrizzle]

Huh, No actually, it sounds worse.

While it's weird to fetishize Sylvanas because she's still technically "dead", at the same time she's still an elf, so that's understandable (not justifiable, but understandable).

Meanwhile Shelob is literally (or was literally?) an ugly spider, how are you going to turn that creature into a beautiful woman, it's just weird

I am willing to make the same argument about Alexstrasza and Ysera btw.

The implications that Sauron (while in his hot form) was having sex with human Shelob are also weird and really out of nowhere.

NOTE: I said "weird" and not "bad", because I actually find it funny that Sauron had the time to develop a whole relationship with Shelob in-between scheming and deceiving people, but it's still weird because it came out of nowhere. Before that videogame came out, everyone pretty much agreed that Shelob was just a giant spider and that was the end of it.

Although this is lore-breaking, because it doesn't explain why Shelob tried to kill Frodo and Sam, when their mission was to destroy Sauron (that Shelob, in the videogame universe, hated and despised after he betrayed her).

Extra weird when you remember he's a timeless spiritual being who sang in the choirs of creation, and also shouldn't have a hot form because it was lost when Numenor sank.

[AcidicSyn]

If only I knew what the fuck "Earthsea" was? Did anyone even watch this to get upset about it? Does whatever the fuck it's based on even HAVE a fandom?

No where near as big as lotr lol, but yeah there's a fandom out there. "Earthsea series" book 1 is "A Wizard of Earthsea". I forgot what channel it was that made the series, old scifi I think? irrelevant though.

But yes, folks watched it and it has a fandom, just, as mentioned, not on the scale (or even close to the scale) as lotr of course.

[BeepBoo]

No where near as big as lotr lol, but yeah there's a fandom out there. "Earthsea series" book 1 is "A Wizard of Earthsea". I forgot what channel it was that made the series, old scifi I think? irrelevant though.

But yes, folks watched it and it has a fandom, just, as mentioned, not on the scale (or even close to the scale) as lotr of course.

I'm not someone who specifically goes out looking for these things. If it happens to be something I care about, I talk about it. However, if I were an earthsea fan and it was, indeed, as you say.. a whitewashing, I'd be pissed. Best example I can think of for me personally was Ghost in the Shell whitewashing. I complained all over everything about that. I fucking grew up on that show and major is a fucking asian lady-cyborg, period.

[Nurasu]

Minority characters are cast with white actors literally all the time; this list is a fraction of Hollywood white washing: https://www.washingtonpost.com/poste...o-wasnt-white/

Very few people ever even notice, unless it's the other way around for some reason.

[rogoth]

I remember seeing a really nice shot of Numenor. Also a cool shot of someone who may be Gil Galad. Also a shot or two of Elrond. Funny how people get triggered when they see a lady or a person of color in a one minute trailer and quickly take out their "woke checkbox." Why exactly are people so scared of or angry about a little color in their fantasy world? It is quite possible that these trailers are cut like this to trigger these poor folks that are intimidated and scared by diversity. It sure does create a lot of free advertising.

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Again, you "literally" assume the timeline from a "literal" one minute teaser trailer. You "literally' are creating a timelines out of nothing. You "literally" have no idea if there are flashbacks. You "literally" have no idea if the series will jump from time period to other time periods to tell different stories. All you "literally" know is that you are "literally" upset because you saw women and people of color.

i see you're one of those types of people who either doesn't understand context, or dismisses it when it doesn't agree with your point of view, i was speaking DIRECTLY about the dwarf, as such i was describing everything relating to her character so far, in what universe does the rest of the information provided have to do with her?, genuinely curious to know why i should be including a list of other characters when i'm talking EXCLUSIVELY about one single character, to employ a phrase: i fail to see what that's got to do with the price of cheese.

furthermore, your second comment tells me you failed to read what i wrote, OR your reading comprehension skills are poor enough that you failed to COMPREHEND what was written, i'll break it down for you into simple and easy to understand chunks since you seem incapable of reading things properly:

In their FLUFF piece interview WRITTEN on the VANITY FAIR website, the shows creators said they were SHRINKING THE TIMELINE OF EVENTS so that certain events that happened in the stories that were centuries apart, would be happening MUCH CLOSER TOGETHER in their show, as above, what in the ever living fuck does the 1 minute teaser trailer have to do with this written article and why are you mentioning it when talking about the story timeline when NONE of the teaser trailer is in chronological order based on their interviews?

if you can please provide me with some enlightenment as to how you came to such absurd and wrong conclusions, i would greatly appreciate it because i'm struggling to wrap my head around the number of hoops your mind had to jump through to come to the assbackwards conclusion that you arrived at.

[Varodoc]

Extra weird when you remember he's a timeless spiritual being who sang in the choirs of creation, and also shouldn't have a hot form because it was lost when Numenor sank.

Yeah he shouldn't have had his hot form when his spirit turned Isildur into a Nazgul or when he fought (and merged) with Celebrimbor.

[Khaza-R]

Were you guys this upset when they cast a white guy to play Ged in Earthsea? Because being red/brown-copper skinned is a pretty important part of his character and I don't remember anyone bitching about that (except Ursula).


on topic: I'm a bit concerned about some of the creative licensing they're going to have to take. Someone told me they're trying to compress the almost the whole second age into "the lifespan of one human"? If that's true, even if its a numenorian, I don't know if I like that- rather they just jumped around the timeline in that case.

As for Disa, Dwarves, all dwarves, are supposed to have beards I believe. But meh, maybe she shaves it. Heck, maybe she shaves it and its a point of drama between her and her Kin and she's driven out of Khazad-dûm for shaving her beard, I dunno, point is I'll get over it so long as she can act and gives me a good show for the dwarves.

speaking of Khazad-dûm, thats frankly the most important bit for me and I will continue repeating this. Show me Khazad-dûm, but, I want a rather specific "money shot". In fellowship, Gandalf "Risks a little more light" and we get this big wide shot of the columns and wide open halls of Moria. I want that same exact shot, recreated 1:1 except, the halls are alive with Dwarves. Guards, traders, tables, benches, armor on the walls, everything lit and glorious, with at least one dwarf swilling malt beer and red meat off the bone.

I want like a full 3-5 minutes of no dialog while the camera just pans through the place.

One could argue they kind of did this with Khamûl in the PJ trilogy. He was the second in command of the Nazghul and an Easterling in life, although not really depicted as such in brief appearance he has in the intro.

As for the timeline. I think it could potentially be pulled off in a satisfying way but its going to be exceedingly difficult to manage not making a mess of all the events. Sometimes too much going on isn't a good thing. Kind of like the final seasons of GoT, where a lot happened but it was rarely satisfying.

Perhaps under more experienced producers I would be more confident in this change, but I think people are right to be concerned about them chopping it up.