Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[Kumorii]

But... the whole point of Walter White was that he was a deeply flawed and evil person, mainly because his constant superiority complex and resentment for anyone that is more succesful then him despite being less capable (in his eyes) kept him unsatisfied with whatever he had. Providing for his family was an excuse to justify himself, but even after he had provided enough for 10 families and lost his wife and son he couldn't stop his ambition. He needed an empire and most likely even that would not have been enough.

I can see Halbrand using a similar justification, doing everything "to heal Middle-Earth" and "for the people", but the writers aren't remotely skilled enough to create a character as complex as Walter White. If they wanted that then they should have had Galadriel actually accept his deal and believe she can control his evil.

You are right. The build up of that was so good though that you felt the tragedy when he stopped lying to himself.
I think everyone were on board on the sympathy train from the start. And I wouldn't say this isn't a bad aim to go for.

Having the showrunners then say "we want you to feel sympathy for him, like for example Walter White" they now have to regress his arc. Especially since Sauron now literally told Galadriel his plans of ruling over everything and he had no sense of remorse and we have no reason to feel sympathy for him. He has to go from being all out evil to a character being forced in a difficult position and then resulting in doing bad stuff and then fall in love with it. If I remember correctly plenty of character tried to "fix" Walter White(Wife and Jesse tried to steer him off the path numerous times) and it's only when he finally admits to his wife (i think) and himself that he loves what he does the "hope" is lost. Up until that point people had that hope of him choosing the right path.
What hope is there to lose with Sauron at this point?

I think they are wanting to make something like this. Make it seem like he is forced into something and the audience should hope he goes on the better path and maybe even fall in love with Galadriel and vice versa and then we all feel he can be fixed and then we feel the loss of help when it's revealed when it can't be done.

[Flurryfang]

That nitpick is made all the more asinine by two simple facts: There are other Numenor costumes with gilded "printed-on" motiffs, and if they'd wanted to give her a quilted undershirt they could have easily done so:



But they chose to go with something that would make it look like she was covered in shiny scales instead. You know...because she's a queen and has appearances to keep up. Hence being covered in gold in the first place.

I mean, I challenge anyone to just look at Elendil's costume and try to tell me with a straight face that they didn't care about the quality of these costumes.

But that would mean, that all Numeanor armor is leather armor.... Which is just kinda, you know, underwhelming. These mightiest of humans, who are supposed to conquer across the world, wear less armor than the goddam rohan horsemen O.o

[s_bushido]

But that would mean, that all Numeanor armor is leather armor....

I'm sorry, what? How'd you come to that conclusion?

They're clearly capable of making plate armor, given the set they give to Galadriel (unless that was supposed to be an elven suit they just happened to have laying around).

[Toppy]

I do have to ask.

Did they really need to give the Dwarf Princess gospel magic?

[Shadowferal]

[Kumorii]

This was their promo picture... you know a picture that's supposed to be looked at. Nothing of this "you have to watch it 20 times to see it" fly as an excuse.
Everyone pointed it out that it was a printed shirt and looked cheap from the moment this was posted.
Even if I buy the excuse of "it's printed" on a shirt or leather... it just looks odd. It's a weird design choice because it has the same scales as the armor and naturally you think the arms will be armored as well. It makes it look cheap even if we excuse it in-universe being made such... it's just cheap looking.

Hell, they even solved it with Elendils armor by having an undershirt of another color where the creases would be in their costume. And they have a thicker piece of leather/thick cloth there to begin with. So they did know how to fix it... probably forgot about it for Miriel though. if they did this to make Miriel look regal they failed. Frankly, Elendils armor look more regal than hers because of the details in it.

[Raisei]

You are right. The build up of that was so good though that you felt the tragedy when he stopped lying to himself.
I think everyone were on board on the sympathy train from the start. And I wouldn't say this isn't a bad aim to go for.

Having the showrunners then say "we want you to feel sympathy for him, like for example Walter White" they now have to regress his arc. Especially since Sauron now literally told Galadriel his plans of ruling over everything and he had no sense of remorse and we have no reason to feel sympathy for him. He has to go from being all out evil to a character being forced in a difficult position and then resulting in doing bad stuff and then fall in love with it. If I remember correctly plenty of character tried to "fix" Walter White(Wife and Jesse tried to steer him off the path numerous times) and it's only when he finally admits to his wife (i think) and himself that he loves what he does the "hope" is lost. Up until that point people had that hope of him choosing the right path.
What hope is there to lose with Sauron at this point?

I think they are wanting to make something like this. Make it seem like he is forced into something and the audience should hope he goes on the better path and maybe even fall in love with Galadriel and vice versa and then we all feel he can be fixed and then we feel the loss of help when it's revealed when it can't be done.

Is it me, or did his character radically change in the last 20 minutes? Before that you could actually take his claim seriously that he was going to try to heal and help. But then after the reveal his entire tone seems to suggest how much pleasure he took in tricking people, it felt jarring somehow. As if a mask dropped that I never felt he wore. Knowing who he is from the start made me look out for details that betray his real character, but all his talk seemed genuine...

In a better show I would say that he tricked me, despite me looking at him, but here I just think that they wrote a break in his character so that Galadriels rebuttal wasn't too forced.

[s_bushido]

Everyone [who was already looking for an excuse to shit on the show before it aired] pointed it out that it was a printed shirt and looked cheap from the moment this was posted.

Fixed that for you.

Hell, they even solved it with Elendils armor by having an undershirt of another color where the creases would be in their costume. And they have a thicker piece of leather/thick cloth there to begin with. So they did know how to fix it... probably forgot about it for Miriel though. if they did this to make Miriel look regal they failed. Frankly, Elendils armor look more regal than hers because of the details in it.

There was nothing to "fix," given that what she's shown wearing it in the same exact scene that we first see Elendil's armor. And since she doesn't actually go into the battle herself, it seems pretty obvious that it's supposed to be more decorative than practical. Therefore thinner gilded cloth instead of quilted padding like the rest of the soldiers were wearing.



It's a bad complaint and people making it should feel bad.

[Raisei]

This was their promo picture... you know a picture that's supposed to be looked at. Nothing of this "you have to watch it 20 times to see it" fly as an excuse.
Everyone pointed it out that it was a printed shirt and looked cheap from the moment this was posted.
Even if I buy the excuse of "it's printed" on a shirt or leather... it just looks odd. It's a weird design choice because it has the same scales as the armor and naturally you think the arms will be armored as well. It makes it look cheap even if we excuse it in-universe being made such... it's just cheap looking.

Hell, they even solved it with Elendils armor by having an undershirt of another color where the creases would be in their costume. And they have a thicker piece of leather/thick cloth there to begin with. So they did know how to fix it... probably forgot about it for Miriel though. if they did this to make Miriel look regal they failed. Frankly, Elendils armor look more regal than hers because of the details in it.

The funny thing is that this was wholly unnecessary. You simply do not wear scale armor under a breatplate of more scale armor. You wear a mail shirt and a gambeson under that, allowing for both mobility and protection. If this shirt she is wearing was actually made of metal she could barely move, both because of the rigidness and weight, and with as thin as it is, she'd have to wear it directly on the skin, which is extremely painful.

Of course, considering the swordplay scenes, it is quite clear they neither had a fight coreographer nor an expert for medieval weapons and armor on the set. So of course everything just follows the rule of cool. I literally have no clue where all that money went....

[Kumorii]

Is it me, or did his character radically change in the last 20 minutes? Before that you could actually take his claim seriously that he was going to try to heal and help. But then after the reveal his entire tone seems to suggest how much pleasure he took in tricking people, it felt jarring somehow. As if a mask dropped that I never felt he wore. Knowing who he is from the start made me look out for details that betray his real character, but all his talk seemed genuine...

In a better show I would say that he tricked me, despite me looking at him, but here I just think that they wrote a break in his character so that Galadriels rebuttal wasn't too forced.

No, it's not only you.

The entire scene between those two was to try and convince the audience he has been scheming and manipulated Galadriel with subtlety all this time. When in fact most of the stuff she did was on her own accord against Halbrands wishes. Trying to make it seem like some reverse psychology trick... problem is they cant sell it and didn't build it up in a believable manner.

I mentioned it in my "review" post. They forced this and sped through it while they spent 6 episodes on basically nothing... More time should've been spent on this. And I think they revealed Sauron too early. The only manipulation I buy from him is his wound to get to Eregion and how to make the rings. They should've done more of this throughout the season.

The water shot was pretty cool though, I give them that... the rest though... blegh.

[Raisei]

There was nothing to "fix," given that what she's shown wearing it in the same exact scene that we first see Elendil's armor. And since she doesn't actually go into the battle herself, it seems pretty obvious that it's supposed to be more decorative than practical. Therefore thinner gilded cloth instead of quilted padding like the rest of the soldiers were wearing.

Guards that let their queen or king go onto a battlefield with "decorative" armor usually end up without said queen or king. This isn't a friggin state meeting with another ruler, this is a warzone, representation counts very little. In fact, being visibly the leader while there are still quite possibly archers around is extremely stupid.

If the people would actually allow their queen to be there, then she would be clad in so much steel that she could barely see (which might have been smart in hindsight). Especially since her father is close to death anyway, there is no way they would risk the heir. Especially not for the grand prize of a dozen orcs in a village in the middle of nowhere that means nothing to them.

Just look at this amor... a sword would cut her arm off throught that shirt with ease and her friggin neck is completely unprotected, she isn't even wearing a mail shirt for a bit of protection around the neck. You could take her head clean off with a simple swing.

It's a bad complaint and people making it should feel bad.

"Critics are patently evil!!"

[Flurryfang]

I'm sorry, what? How'd you come to that conclusion?

They're clearly capable of making plate armor, given the set they give to Galadriel (unless that was supposed to be an elven suit they just happened to have laying around).

Then why the hell is all their armor leather? O.o The forces they send to the Southlands, the knights on horses, are clerly just wearing the scale-lookalike leather armor. If that is meant to be actual plate armor, than its badly made and easy to see as fake armor.

Rings of Power should not be a show, that has to take the cheap way. If they want their soldiers to look like they have plate armor on, they should be able to actually make some plate armor for them wear.

[Ghost of Cow]

Is it me, or did his character radically change in the last 20 minutes? Before that you could actually take his claim seriously that he was going to try to heal and help. But then after the reveal his entire tone seems to suggest how much pleasure he took in tricking people, it felt jarring somehow. As if a mask dropped that I never felt he wore. Knowing who he is from the start made me look out for details that betray his real character, but all his talk seemed genuine...

In a better show I would say that he tricked me, despite me looking at him, but here I just think that they wrote a break in his character so that Galadriels rebuttal wasn't too forced.

You're right, he did pull an almost immediate change of personality. I just assumed that he was getting a little too excited now that his stuff was falling into place or something? I dunno.

[Kumorii]

You're right, he did pull an almost immediate change of personality. I just assumed that he was getting a little too excited now that his stuff was falling into place or something? I dunno.

Nah, he was "caught" even though he wasn't. But Galadriel were on his tail and knew who he was because apparently there was no record of him being heir of a king of southlands, which he never said he was and even pointed it out. The show trying to multiple things. Presenting Galadriel to be this great detective who figured him out and having him a master manipulator... Not even sure why the first suspicion of someone "lying" (but never actually did lie) about being an heir means he must be Sauron. He could've easily just say he took the role because she so vehemently pushed it on him despite what he said.

Not even sure why he agreed to be king in the first place if he was Sauron... he never ruled, he said "Yes i'm your king" they cheer and then he's off smithing in Eregion.
Would be cool if he actually became their king and crafted the rings for men there before going to Eregion. Getting their loyalty. Would actually serve a purpose of him lying about being a king in that one moment that amounted to nothing.

EDIT: Have to correct myself a little.
It was the saying "Not of the flesh, but over flesh" that caused the suspicion, but the list of heirs is what she used as proof.

[rhorle]

No, what I'm saying is you're wrong, and at this point you're outright lying about it. NLC wasn't even involved for a decent part of the project. And to urge someone is not synonymous with encouraging someone. If you have to lie about the definition of words in the english language to try to make your point, I'd suggest you at least put some effort in your lie, not just make shit up.

How am I outright lying? Jackson was going to make a watered down script with Miramax until it fell apart. He was shopping that watered down script to different studios. New Line Cinema is who told them to expanded their vision and add in all the things they cut. If it wasn't for NLC getting behind it 110% the movies as we know them wouldn't have existed. Urging and Encouraging are similar words. You are choosing to make a huge difference between them just so you don't have to admit that NLC made the project possible. It is just nitpicking a word I used when if I used the word you wanted the argument would remain the same, strange right?

[Ghost of Cow]

Nah, he was "caught" even though he wasn't. But Galadriel were on his tail and knew who he was because apparently there was no record of him being heir of a king of southlands, which he never said he was and even pointed it out. The show trying to multiple things. Presenting Galadriel to be this great detective who figured him out and having him a master manipulator... Not even sure why the first suspicion of someone "lying" (but never actually did lie) about being an heir means he must be Sauron. He could've easily just say he took the role because she so vehemently pushed it on him despite what he said.

Not even sure why he agreed to be king in the first place if he was Sauron... he never ruled, he said "Yes i'm your king" they cheer and then he's off smithing in Eregion.
Would be cool if he actually became their king and crafted the rings for men there before going to Eregion. Getting their loyalty. Would actually serve a purpose of him lying about being a king in that one moment that amounted to nothing.

It would have been much funnier if he wasn't Sauron at all.

"I just checked Elvipedia, you're not a king at all! ...so you must be Sauron!!!"

"...what? No, I'm just some rando that you picked to be king and kept on my ass about it so I just rolled with it eventually. The fuck is a Sauron?"

[rhorle]

Not even sure why he agreed to be king in the first place if he was Sauron...

His pride. Sauron enviosned himself as some god king of Middle-earth. The only reason why he remained after the first age was because he was to prideful to seek the judgement of Valinor.

"Now Sauron's lust and pride increased, until he knew no bounds, and he determined to make himself master of all things in Middle-earth, and to destroy the Elves, and to compass if he might, the downfall of Númenor. He brooked no freedom nor any rivalry, and he named himself Lord of the Earth. A mask he still could wear so that if he wished he might deceive the eyes of Men, seeming to them wise and fair. But he ruled rather by force and fear, if they might avail; and those who perceived his shadow spreading over the world called him the Dark Lord and named him the Enemy; and he gathered under his government all the evil things of the days of Morgoth that remained on earth or beneath it, and the Orcs were at his command and multiplied like flies."
— The Silmarillion, Akallabêth

[Nerovar]

You can't point out bad costume design for this flagship production with a billion dollar budget because that's nitpicking. Yeah, ok...

[Kumorii]

His pride. Sauron enviosned himself as some god king of Middle-earth. The only reason why he remained after the first age was because he was to prideful to seek the judgement of Valinor.

I'm not questioning his desire to rule or to be "king" over middle earth in general or what his personality is.
By removing the rest of the quote you ignore context.

[rhorle]

The point is that in a 2 billion dollar show they are not using decent costumes.

There is no need to exaggerate the budget. Season 1 was around $715 million. People lump the cost for the rights to bring it closer to $1 billion. However an article a week or two ago stated that it was Netflix that offered $250 million and Amazon's offer was actually lower though it didn't give the amount. HotD still has some complaints and "nitpicks" that equal caring about an undershirt on a Queen not being "real scales". It is just people hand wave those critiques away because they don't dislike the show overall like they do with Rings of Power. Hence why the person randomly brought up the Queen's Shirt again because their other critiques were being countered.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm not questioning his desire to rule or to be "king" over middle earth in general or what his personality is.
By removing the rest of the quote you ignore context.

I didn't ignore any context. You used ... which broke up the sentence and separated the first from the rest. Not to mention even the forum rules say not to use whole post quotes if you don't need to.

His pride still answers your question. He wanted to be king of all. The show implies a "falling out" between him and adar which gives a strong reason for why he would be seeking a "replacement" for his pride. It also gives him a stronger connection to be present for things instead of just the sea hobo Galadrial rescued.