Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[Specialka]

Then you haven't watched it "to the end"

That would be playing with words, but I am not surprised that you resort to that tactics.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

That would be playing with words, but I am not surprised that you resort to that tactics.

I'm not "playing with words"...you are:

I always go to the end of a movie/serie/game I do not like because I want to see if I am wrong til the end.

[Specialka]

I'm not "playing with words"...you are:

So if a show get cancelled, I can't go to the "end"? Is that what you are saying ? If yes, how is that not playing with words ?

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

So if a show get cancelled, I can't go to the "end"? Is that what you are saying ? If yes, how is that not playing with words ?

A series getting cancelled is "the end" of a series.

EDIT: I see the misunderstanding here.

You are saying that shows you do not like do not tend to be renewed after a second season

I was reading that you do not continue to watch shows you do not like after a second season.

I'll take the hit on this one, I misunderstood your statement.

I still think it's a waste of time to even watch two seasons of a show I don't like. Especially since if a show does get canceled after the second season... it goes a long way to prove I was right not to waste my time with it.

[Veggie50]

No, I don't see any of this as debating at all. It's merely arguing, and in some cases, indirect insults and attacks.

I mean, we're in MMO-C forums, let's not pretend we're having formal debates here. Especially if you're quoting my responses to Rhorle, lol. Have you actually read the response that you quoted? Probably not since you ended up calling this a debate lol.



The Lord of the Rings referring to Sauron is not a theory, it is a fact. Alternative theories do not change the facts. I mean, anyone wants to push forth an alternate theory, by all means do so. It just doesn't change the fact there is a definitive answer already. It's not a debate, it's merely expressing an alternate theory for what's clearly answered.

Look at my post of the Gandalf is a Fighter meme example above. Gandalf is definitively a wizard, and yet I'd still acknowledge theories like Gandalf is a Fighter because it's a funny meme. It doesn't mean presenting theories immediately equates to definitive facts being debateable, there are many different contexts to having theories, like as a funny meme.

So you're right, there is no law against making theories that are ultimately wrong. People can present theories that are wrong if they wish. I didn't say people can't post alternative theories, I said there is one definitive answer. It wouldn't be a debate, just an argument in ignorance really. And sometimes it can be for the sake of entertainment, like making the argument that Gandalf is a Fighter.

It’s an argument, not a debate?..

Hmmmm someones getting a thesaurus for christmas ;D

[Shadowferal]

How can you form an opinion if you do not read/listen/watch everything you do not like ? Then you get to start to live in a bubble as you do apparently.

As rhorle. He thinks he knows everything about the Wheel of Time series as well as Lord of the Rings without reading the books. Worse, he dismisses the reasons why they're popular in favor of his ignorant opinion.

[rhorle]

I don't need to watch it in order to find out what new horrible retcon has been done for the week

Amusing how you didn't watch all of the show yet feel you can complain/talk about it. Yet when I said I didn't read all of Lord of the Rings you said I couldn't talk about it. Double standards when you hate, huh?

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Yes, it does. I'm sorry that your reading comprehension is so terrible. The poem attributes Rings to Ringbearers. 3 for the elves, 7 for the dwarves, 9 for men, and one for the Dark Lord. The Lord of the Rings.

Right. And what is the poem referencing doing the ruling? The One Ring. What is the poem referencing that is doing the binding? The One Ring. They are not bound to Sauron but to the Ring.

Durin III is alive when the rings are forged. Durin IV is alive for the War of the Last Alliance. The show is starting with the rings being forged and ending (season 5) with the War of the Last Alliance. What doesn't make sense about having both present on the show? It not following canon is not the same as not making sense. They compressed the time line and changed things to make it work. If they didn't have Durin IV it would be something you, or others, complain about it. If they didn't have Durin III it would be something you, or others, complain about. Because it removed a special lore figure from the show. Yet if they have both it is still complained about.

The compressed timeline is not to build tension. It seems it needs to be talked about more since you don't understand why it exists. They compressed it so they could keep the same actors through out the whole series. If they didn't compress it then only Elven actors would be kept and human, dwarf, hobbit, etc would all have to be replaced. Also you seemed to have watched a different show because Sauron didn't touch the three rings. They were created on the show after Galadriel confronted him.

[Xath]

Amusing how you didn't watch all of the show yet feel you can complain/talk about it. Yet when I said I didn't read all of Lord of the Rings you said I couldn't talk about it. Double standards when you hate, huh?

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Right. And what is the poem referencing doing the ruling? The One Ring. What is the poem referencing that is doing the binding? The One Ring. They are not bound to Sauron but to the Ring.

Durin III is alive when the rings are forged. Durin IV is alive for the War of the Last Alliance. The show is starting with the rings being forged and ending (season 5) with the War of the Last Alliance. What doesn't make sense about having both present on the show? It not following canon is not the same as not making sense. They compressed the time line and changed things to make it work. If they didn't have Durin IV it would be something you, or others, complain about it. If they didn't have Durin III it would be something you, or others, complain about. Because it removed a special lore figure from the show. Yet if they have both it is still complained about.

The compressed timeline is not to build tension. It seems it needs to be talked about more since you don't understand why it exists. They compressed it so they could keep the same actors through out the whole series. If they didn't compress it then only Elven actors would be kept and human, dwarf, hobbit, etc would all have to be replaced. Also you seemed to have watched a different show because Sauron didn't touch the three rings. They were created on the show after Galadriel confronted him.

I've already read the material it's very loosely based on not hard to read a summary and pick out the things that glaringly go against canon. You on the other hand haven't read the material and base your entire knowledge on wiki and loose adapts.

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Yeah but if you look at the numbers and how many people are actually watching the show, it's a similar lcd casual audience who may have watched the LOTR movies but never read the books or know anything about the 2nd Age.

And it worked for Amazon. Even if the show is getting panned by critics and enthusiasts, the casuals are eating it up.

It might not be House of the Dragon success, but few shows are so it'd not be worth comparing. Like, Andor is a way better show than Rings of Power, but it's got shit viewership sadly. Better shows don't always equal success.

I honestly think Amazon is blowing smoke with their numbers just looking at the advertising stuff that gets sent out to prime members LoTR is at the very bottom of the blast below stuff like Licorice Pizza and WoT isn't even on it while a ton of older stuff is above the fold so to speak. Bosch Good Omens Man in High Castle all are much more prominently placed than LoTR even Dog is.

[rhorle]

I've already read the material it's very loosely based on not hard to read a summary and pick out the things that glaringly go against canon. You on the other hand haven't read the material and base your entire knowledge on wiki and loose adapts.

Right. It is okay when you do it but not okay when others do it. A double standard. A wiki is the same as reading a summary for the show. Yet it is good when you do it and bad when I do it. Strange, right? Did you even watch any of the show or did you just read summaries?

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I honestly think Amazon is blowing smoke with their numbers just looking at the advertising stuff that gets sent out to prime members LoTR is at the very bottom of the blast below stuff like Licorice Pizza and WoT isn't even on it while a ton of older stuff is above the fold so to speak. Bosch Good Omens Man in High Castle all are much more prominently placed than LoTR even Dog is.

So Amazon is lying about numbers because they are advertising shows to you that are not Lord of the Rings? Lmao. It is crazy that a person that didn't even watch, all or part of, the show is creating a conspiracy. If Amazon was lying would they have put RoP at number 2 in the US this week? As The Peripheral has reached the number 1 slot currently.

Nielsen ratings, which Amazon doesn't control, also don't paint a bleak picture. As the 19-25 got 977 million minutes. I drop of 10 million from the last week. Episode 5 released part way through these numbers. But it is easier to believe it is all a lie just because you dislike the show, right?

[Triceron]

It’s an argument, not a debate?..

Hmmmm someones getting a thesaurus for christmas ;D

Yup, just like this isn't a debate, its just shitposting.

Is there anything you actually want to discuss, or you just want to keep trolling here? Otherwise not sure why you're even replying to me.

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I've already read the material it's very loosely based on not hard to read a summary and pick out the things that glaringly go against canon. You on the other hand haven't read the material and base your entire knowledge on wiki and loose adapts.

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I honestly think Amazon is blowing smoke with their numbers just looking at the advertising stuff that gets sent out to prime members LoTR is at the very bottom of the blast below stuff like Licorice Pizza and WoT isn't even on it while a ton of older stuff is above the fold so to speak. Bosch Good Omens Man in High Castle all are much more prominently placed than LoTR even Dog is.

Yeah but those are all successful shows, success isn't measured merely by beating others but whether it does well for itself.

Transformers and Twilight aren't more profitable or well acclaimed than Marvel or Avatar, doesn't mean the movies had to beat em to be considered a success right?

[Xath]

Right. It is okay when you do it but not okay when others do it. A double standard. A wiki is the same as reading a summary for the show. Yet it is good when you do it and bad when I do it. Strange, right? Did you even watch any of the show or did you just read summaries?

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So Amazon is lying about numbers because they are advertising shows to you that are not Lord of the Rings? Lmao. It is crazy that a person that didn't even watch, all or part of, the show is creating a conspiracy. If Amazon was lying would they have put RoP at number 2 in the US this week? As The Peripheral has reached the number 1 slot currently.

Nielsen ratings, which Amazon doesn't control, also don't paint a bleak picture. As the 19-25 got 977 million minutes. I drop of 10 million from the last week. Episode 5 released part way through these numbers. But it is easier to believe it is all a lie just because you dislike the show, right?

Again it's not a double standard. You are making claims about the material which the trash adapt is referencing but haven't read it I am talking about specific things that are verifiably different between the trash adapt and the source material. And no it's just odd to see a show that literally just finished being put under shows that are not even currently going like Good Omens. There is a supposedly a second season coming but no actual info about when. Also under Licorice Pizza like really??? One of us works in marketing and it isn't you it's extremely odd to see a new seasonal product being given lower billing than old finished ones.

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Yup, just like this isn't a debate, its just shitposting.

Is there anything you actually want to discuss, or you just want to keep trolling here? Otherwise not sure why you're even replying to me.

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Yeah but those are all successful shows, success isn't measured merely by beating others but whether it does well for itself.

Transformers and Twilight aren't more profitable or well acclaimed than Marvel or Avatar, doesn't mean the movies had to beat em to be considered a success right?

It's not about whether it's beating them it's about what's being promoted. Even if this is based on purchasing in the last several months I have a bunch of fantasy books purchased via audible as well as dnd stuff direct via amazon it would make much more sense to have a fantasy product at the top than for it to be given much lower billing.

[rhorle]

And no it's just odd to see a show that literally just finished being put under shows that are not even currently going like Good Omens. There is a supposedly a second season coming but no actual info about when. Also under Licorice Pizza like really??? One of us works in marketing and it isn't you it's extremely odd to see a new seasonal product being given lower billing than old finished ones.

As someone who works in marketing wouldn't you understand why a show a person didn't finish (or even start) wouldn't be prominent in targeted advertisement? Even if the e-mail or ads are not tailored specifically to you Amazon still has reasons to draw people into their other shows. Likely why Wheel of Time is number 9 on prime video currently despite having no new content. You are also trying to gate keep again by saying only you have a right to talk about marketing because it is your job.

So I can't reference specific things about Tolkien Canon with wiki's but you can reference specific things about the show with summaries? That is a double standard. One is acceptable because it comes from you or reinforces your view on the show. The other is not acceptable because it doesn't come from you and go against your view of the show.

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Your argument makes sense if you think that the content of the show is equal to the content of the source material in terms of understanding the universe. And uh, it's just not. The books are 1000X more important than any adaptation.

Strawman. I never made the argument that source material is not more important then an adaptation faithful or not. It is still a double standard to whine about a show you haven't watched or only watched part of while at the same time gate keeping a person that hasn't read the full source material.

[Xath]

As someone who works in marketing wouldn't you understand why a show a person didn't finish (or even start) wouldn't be prominent in targeted advertisement? Even if the e-mail or ads are not tailored specifically to you Amazon still has reasons to draw people into their other shows. Likely why Wheel of Time is number 9 on prime video currently despite having no new content. You are also trying to gate keep again by saying only you have a right to talk about marketing because it is your job.

So I can't reference specific things about Tolkien Canon with wiki's but you can reference specific things about the show with summaries? That is a double standard. One is acceptable because it comes from you or reinforces your view on the show. The other is not acceptable because it doesn't come from you and go against your view of the show.

No it isn't holy crap. Wiki's are a summary of passages that are usually hundreds or even thousands of words in length for example when you try to talk about wot. I've read the damn scripts because it was faster and less painful than watching the trash meanwhile you try to crib stuff that took place over dozens of chapters from a simple summary that misses out on all context.

[rhorle]

I didn't say you did... ...I interpret that to mean that you view both sources as equally valid

You did and just confirmed you did. Lmao. If a person can't use summaries to talk about the book then they shouldn't be able to use summaries to talk about a show. Reading a book confers no special knowledge that reading the same info in a summary or wiki does not. You are just gate keeping but doing so second hand.

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No it isn't holy crap. Wiki's are a summary of passages that are usually hundreds or even thousands of words in length for example when you try to talk about wot. I've read the damn scripts because it was faster and less painful than watching the trash meanwhile you try to crib stuff that took place over dozens of chapters from a simple summary that misses out on all context.

You've read the script for the show? I thought you said you got your knowledge from a summary? A wiki provides relevant information about the story and it provides a source to back up claims other then "I read it in the book". You haven't even tried to argue that what I provide from a wiki or other sources is wrong. You just attack the source because you know that the information isn't wrong.

[rhorle]

Again, one of the two is by the actual creator of the fictional universe, the other is by two random scriptwriters. One is way more important than the other... you don't seem to realize that.

Again not something I've stated. The show also has more then two writers. Did you by chance use the wrong word again? As there are two show runners.

[Triceron]

You are correct. I stated that... this new line of attack is particularly bizarre. Am I not allow to say things that you haven't already said first?

Maybe contradict me - it's my impression that you think the book material isn't more important than the show. I've stated that several times and you haven't disagreed, you just keep saying that you haven't said that yet. You haven't really said at all what you think. So say it - is the book material more important than the show's?

You'll find this a part of his argument style. He will focus on attacking what you say, while not presenting his own opinion on the matter. There is no conversation being had, he's only interested in prolonging the discussion enough to find something to attack you on. He doesn't actually care to discuss actual opinion, and if you push him hard enough on something he refused to acknowledge he'll straight up stop responding and pretend the entire discussion didn't happen.

And this is a guy who claimed to be here interested in having good discussions, yet all he ever does is... Whatever this is.

[rhorle]

You are correct. I stated that... this new line of attack is particularly bizarre. Am I not allow to say things that you haven't already said first?

Did I say you couldn't? You keep trying to attribute things to me that I've never said. Implied or Direct. I've never once stated that source material is more important than the show.

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it undermines his argument that it doesn't matter that he hasn't read the books.

It doesn't matter if I haven't finished Lord of the Rings if I provide relevant text from Tolkien, the books, or wiki's about the book. Most of us would have to refresh our memory anyways if it is something that was read 20 years ago, right? I imagine you don't have a perfect recall of past events. If it is bad for me to be discussing the books while not having read part of the books then it is bad for a person to not have watched part of the show while discussing the show.

It is the same principle that is given a double standard just because you are looking for something to attack and discredit over.

[qwerty123456]

For some reason this guy showed up in my recommended and I gotta say dang that Ian McKellen deepfake face looks good. I wouldn't be surprised if future films are filmed so they can make better use of the technology and exploit dead actors when their children want some quick cash.

[rhorle]

So no answer to my question. Got it.

I believe I answered it multiple times with the text of my posts. Book is important to the books. The show is important to the show. Knowledge of both can be gained through other means then reading or watching. There are a number of times in this thread where people didn't notice things when they watched the show. Just as there are some who remember things incorrectly about the books and over all Tolkien-canon.

Wiki, letters, or anything else used to refresh memories or back up claims isn't a bad thing. However if someone is going to label not reading all of the books bad then they can't also defend not watching all of a show as good. It is a double standard that only exists because they can't label themselves "bad" while trying to label another "bad" for doing the same exact thing.

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I wouldn't be surprised if future films are filmed so they can make better use of the technology and exploit dead actors when their children want some quick cash.

James Earl Jones gave rights to Respeecher to AI generate his voice for Darth Vader and he isn't even dead yet. It is going to be interesting how voices and images can be preserved in the future and the on going rights over it. Would an AI voice/image become public domain at some point like other work can?

[rhorle]

So they are equally important? The writings of JRR Tolkien, one of the most celebrated authors of the 20th century, are equal in importance to the two random writers who Amazon hired to run their show?

Ahh there is the strawman trap you've been so eager to spring. When discussing a show then the show is important. When discussing the books then the book is important. It is as simple as that. Just because the show is important to the show doesn't mean Tolkien is any less important for the things he has done. Your reasoning is basically saying gas is important to an electric car because it is also important to a ICE car.