1. #7341
    Not really a RoP question but more of a Lord of the Rings one is it ever explained why Sauron isn't a Balrog? I thought he, Gandalf & the other wizards were all the same species as the Balrogs with Balrogs being the corrupted version after they were influenced by the first Dark Lord. Is it because Sauron was a blacksmith elemental while Balrogs were fire or some shit?

  2. #7342
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    Her being queen-regent is a retcon. Stop trying to weasel out you claimed they weren't retconning I just provided a specific example that is a retcon. There's a lot more but that one in particular is indisputable. If you would like I can start posting the literal text about that particular time from sil the appendices and can even throw in unfinished tales.
    It’s not a retcon because it doesn’t necessarily change the continuity of the narrative. She could very well be made queen for a season and the narrative remain the same with her losing the throne to Pharazon and being forced to marry him with everything turning out the same way as the appendices outlined.

    It’s a change, but not a retcon.

    And what’s more, it’s a good change since a character who never had any agency is barely a character at all. Too many of Tolkien’s characters in this time fit that bill, just a name and nothing more.

  3. #7343
    Immortal Flurryfang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Empire of Man
    Posts
    7,013
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    Not really a RoP question but more of a Lord of the Rings one is it ever explained why Sauron isn't a Balrog? I thought he, Gandalf & the other wizards were all the same species as the Balrogs with Balrogs being the corrupted version after they were influenced by the first Dark Lord. Is it because Sauron was a blacksmith elemental while Balrogs were fire or some shit?
    While Gandalf, Sauron and the Balrogs are all Maiar, they come in very different forms when it comes to the physical world. They proberly are all somewhat the same in the spiritual world, as angelic beings, but in the physical world they each have different ways of manifesting themselves.

    So Balrogs became balrogs to fight for Melkor and be his soldiers, while Sauron became what he is, because he was to be a ruler and leader, while Gandalf and the other wizards look as they look, to blend in with the mortal beings of the world and guide them in the fight against Sauron.
    May the lore be great and the stories interesting. A game without a story, is a game without a soul. Value the lore and it will reward you with fun!

    Don't let yourself be satisfied with what you expect and what you seem as obvious. Ask for something good, surprising and better. Your own standards ends up being other peoples standard.

  4. #7344
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    The guy only reads the equivalent of cliff notes...and his debate logic rarely exceeds preschool levels. Why bother...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Is 'LOTR: The Rings of Power' the biggest flop of all time? Here's how it stacks up with massive box office bombs
    It certainly felt like a master flop to flop them all
    "In real life, unlike in Shakespeare, the sweetness of the rose depends upon the name it bears. Things are not only what they are. They are, in very important respects, what they seem to be"

    End of quote. Repeat the line.

  5. #7345
    As dr.Zeuss once said:
    "Don't smile that it's over; cry because it happened."

  6. #7346
    Immortal Flurryfang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Empire of Man
    Posts
    7,013
    The thing i am most sad about when it comes to the shows ending, is the rush of making the rings.

    Because ohh what a sequence of scenes it could have been, if they had really put care into showing the amazing work, that would have gone into making 3 extremly powerful magic rings. Like not only the artistry of making the designs and the smithing, but the grinding down of the mold, the fine working of adding jewels and fine art to the surface of them, not even to mention the idea of infusing the rings with tremendous magical power.

    Instead, they make it seem so simple and the creation is over so fast. It completly removes the tremoundous importance this has for the world and why this was not a simple solution for the problem of the elves.

    I know it is a bad word, but it does give Halfbrand a "mary-sue" moment, coming in with just the right knowledge at the right time.
    May the lore be great and the stories interesting. A game without a story, is a game without a soul. Value the lore and it will reward you with fun!

    Don't let yourself be satisfied with what you expect and what you seem as obvious. Ask for something good, surprising and better. Your own standards ends up being other peoples standard.

  7. #7347
    Quote Originally Posted by Flurryfang View Post
    The thing i am most sad about when it comes to the shows ending, is the rush of making the rings.

    Because ohh what a sequence of scenes it could have been, if they had really put care into showing the amazing work, that would have gone into making 3 extremly powerful magic rings. Like not only the artistry of making the designs and the smithing, but the grinding down of the mold, the fine working of adding jewels and fine art to the surface of them, not even to mention the idea of infusing the rings with tremendous magical power.

    Instead, they make it seem so simple and the creation is over so fast. It completly removes the tremoundous importance this has for the world and why this was not a simple solution for the problem of the elves.

    I know it is a bad word, but it does give Halfbrand a "mary-sue" moment, coming in with just the right knowledge at the right time.
    What you didn't enjoy them "coaxing" the mithril and the other metals by just dropping it into the others? Or how putting all the metals together somehow got 2 gold and 1 silver ring? This is fantasy don't have such high expectations! /s.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    It's a strange and illogical world where not wanting your 10 year old daughter looking at female-identifying pre-op penises at the YMCA could feasibly be considered transphobic.

  8. #7348
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    It’s not a retcon because it doesn’t necessarily change the continuity of the narrative. She could very well be made queen for a season and the narrative remain the same with her losing the throne to Pharazon and being forced to marry him with everything turning out the same way as the appendices outlined.

    It’s a change, but not a retcon.

    And what’s more, it’s a good change since a character who never had any agency is barely a character at all. Too many of Tolkien’s characters in this time fit that bill, just a name and nothing more.
    It's a retcon and a garbage change. So is making Pharazon an advisor. He rebelled against the throne he didn't serve it. If you wanted a woman to be queen there were multiple other options instead they choose the tragic one who never gained power.

  9. #7349
    Quote Originally Posted by Flurryfang View Post
    The thing i am most sad about when it comes to the shows ending, is the rush of making the rings.

    Because ohh what a sequence of scenes it could have been, if they had really put care into showing the amazing work, that would have gone into making 3 extremly powerful magic rings. Like not only the artistry of making the designs and the smithing, but the grinding down of the mold, the fine working of adding jewels and fine art to the surface of them, not even to mention the idea of infusing the rings with tremendous magical power.

    Instead, they make it seem so simple and the creation is over so fast. It completly removes the tremoundous importance this has for the world and why this was not a simple solution for the problem of the elves.

    I know it is a bad word, but it does give Halfbrand a "mary-sue" moment, coming in with just the right knowledge at the right time.
    Sorry, but this is just a crock of nitpicky bullshit.

    Yeah it was not a simple solution because the entire season (from episode 1 to the end) involved finding said solution. As for the time spent showing the actual jewel crafting, they spent like 10 times longer on it than they spent on the forging of the One Ring in the Peter Jackson prologue. Crafting porn is certainly not necessary to convey the point.

    On top of that, there wasn’t anything in the lore that indicated the crafting itself was some epic, momentous event. Celebrimbor crafted the Three on his own after spending 10 years making dozens of magic rings with his crafting buddies and Annatar. The importance wasn’t in the creation of the rings themselves, but rather all that came after.

  10. #7350
    Yea...called "Rings of Power," and the rings aren't important.../s

  11. #7351
    Immortal Flurryfang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Empire of Man
    Posts
    7,013
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    Sorry, but this is just a crock of nitpicky bullshit.

    Yeah it was not a simple solution because the entire season (from episode 1 to the end) involved finding said solution.
    What are you talking about? The entire season was about galadrial trying to find sauron, and about harfoots finding a meteor man, and about people in the south fighting orcs, and about Elrond rekindling his connection to the dwarves and Durin..... ohh and a little bit about Celebrimbor wanting to make some smithing with a big forge. So no, the making of the rings has not been focus of this season, so they do NOT earn the right to just swoop over the entire ring making process.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    As for the time spent showing the actual jewel crafting, they spent like 10 times longer on it than they spent on the forging of the One Ring in the Peter Jackson prologue. Crafting porn is certainly not necessary to convey the point.
    And there is reason for why they did not spent time on creating the one ring in lord of the rings, because the creation was not the focus, not even the one ring is that much in focus. The focus is on Frodo and Sams journey to morder, and the humans fighting to survive and beat Sauron. If you follow the story, it becomes quite clear, that the ring is not in focus very often.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    On top of that, there wasn’t anything in the lore that indicated the crafting itself was some epic, momentous event. Celebrimbor crafted the Three on his own after spending 10 years making dozens of magic rings with his crafting buddies and Annatar. The importance wasn’t in the creation of the rings themselves, but rather all that came after. .
    There is nothing in the lore?? It says, that it took many YEARS to make the rings and that it was a huge endeavor for both Celebrimbor and Sauron to make. Skipping those years, of the making of the lesser rings, removes the grandour of what the 3 elven rings are. They are the climax of the making of the rings, perfected to a point by Celebrimbor. Again, just ignoring that it took so long to get the rings right, makes it seem like such a small thing to make these rings and its does nothing to make them appear important or powerful.

    The show is called "The Rings of Power" and the rings are in focus until they are made. The entire creation of them sets up EVERYTHING for the rest of the show and is supposed to be one of the primary climaxes of the story. Instead, it is done over in a matter of a few minutes and a few montages..... It feels hollow and the rings lose all sense of power from that. If it really was that easy, and the only thing holding them back is valinor steel and mithrel, they have to make up some horrible reason to why they don't make more O.o
    May the lore be great and the stories interesting. A game without a story, is a game without a soul. Value the lore and it will reward you with fun!

    Don't let yourself be satisfied with what you expect and what you seem as obvious. Ask for something good, surprising and better. Your own standards ends up being other peoples standard.

  12. #7352
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    Sorry, but this is just a crock of nitpicky bullshit.

    Yeah it was not a simple solution because the entire season (from episode 1 to the end) involved finding said solution. As for the time spent showing the actual jewel crafting, they spent like 10 times longer on it than they spent on the forging of the One Ring in the Peter Jackson prologue. Crafting porn is certainly not necessary to convey the point.
    It doesn't matter how much time Rings of Power spent on showing the rings being crafted if the sequencing and materials are completely wrong, lol.

    The show just doesn't take the care and pride in making itself believable when they show one Dagger being completely melted down somehow bearing separate ingots of gold and silver, then the ingots themselves are wrong since they don't match up to the rings (one gold ingot two silver, but two gold rings one silver ring).

    The show banks on being created for audience that is unattentive to the details of how things are presented in the show. A general lack of care in the details is quite common throughout this series.

  13. #7353
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    17,339
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Yea...called "Rings of Power," and the rings aren't important.../s
    Lord of the Rings doesn't feature Sauron that much. He is only referenced and never present I believe.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  14. #7354
    Quote Originally Posted by Flurryfang View Post
    What are you talking about? The entire season was about galadrial trying to find sauron, and about harfoots finding a meteor man, and about people in the south fighting orcs, and about Elrond rekindling his connection to the dwarves and Durin..... ohh and a little bit about Celebrimbor wanting to make some smithing with a big forge. So no, the making of the rings has not been focus of this season, so they do NOT earn the right to just swoop over the entire ring making process.
    Elrond’s story with the dwarves kicked off BECAUSE of this crafting project. It didn’t start as rings, but the underlying need was there from the start.

    What the also fleshed out was giving an explanation for why rings (something that the legendarium didn’t do) and that’s all tied together between Elerond’s, Durin’s, and Celebrimbor’s story lines.

    This was the first of several seasons, the creation of the elven rings being only one piece of the overall story of the Rings of Power. If it feels hollow to you then so be it, but it definitely wasn’t something that was just glossed over.

  15. #7355
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    17,339
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    The show just doesn't take the care and pride in making itself believable when they show one Dagger being completely melted down somehow bearing separate ingots of gold and silver, then the ingots themselves are wrong since they don't match up to the rings (one gold ingot two silver, but two gold rings one silver ring).
    Again. It is plausible that the molten pool has a different composition if things are not evenly distributed. Not to mention how mithril behaves in an alloy is an unknown factor. It could simply be that it takes hues of what it is mixed with. You know like copper mixed with gold makes it pinkish. It is silly to keep including that part in the criticism when the only attention to detail they missed was the color of the ingots being mismatched to the rings.

    The show doesn't bank on people not paying attention. Mistakes happen hence why Game of Thrones had a starbucks cup and House of the Dragons forgot to digitally remove fingers and left the green tape around the fingers.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  16. #7356
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Yea...called "Rings of Power," and the rings aren't important.../s
    Who said the rings weren’t important? Or are you just looking for a straw man to jerk off?

  17. #7357
    Titan Orby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Under the stars
    Posts
    12,428
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Lord of the Rings doesn't feature Sauron that much. He is only referenced and never present I believe.
    To be fair though Sauron was ever present throughout the movie even when you didn't see him, his influence is there. whether it's in the one ring, or influence over people or his armies
    Last edited by Orby; 2022-10-19 at 05:50 PM.
    "People fear, not death, but having life taken from them. Many waste the life given to them, occupying themselves with things that do not matter. When the end comes, they say they did not have time enough to spend with loved ones, to fulfill dreams, to go on adventures they only talked about... But why should you fear death if you are happy with the life you have led, if you can look back on everything and say, 'Yes, I am content. It is enough.'" - Wynne ( Dragon Age: Origins.)

  18. #7358
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    17,339
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    This was the first of several seasons, the creation of the elven rings being only one piece of the overall story of the Rings of Power. If it feels hollow to you then so be it, but it definitely wasn’t something that was just glossed over.
    An interesting tidbit is they cut some stuff from the end of Season 1 because they felt it was to big to do. So they will cover that stuff in Season 2. The curse of having few episodes.


    "Producer Lindsey Weber says, “Season 2 is fundamentally different in that our main villain is out and about and doing his thing. I think in some ways, it’s going to grittier, more intense, maybe a little scarier. There are things that we saved that were going to be in the final bit of [S1] that we thought, oh, just it’s too big right now to do, to fit that in with everything else and let’s save it, and we’re actually doing some of those things now in Season 2”"


    The full article has some pictures of early set construction for season 2 as well. https://www.theonering.net/torwp/202...ings-of-power/
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  19. #7359
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    The show doesn't bank on people not paying attention. Mistakes happen hence why Game of Thrones had a starbucks cup and House of the Dragons forgot to digitally remove fingers and left the green tape around the fingers.
    I wouldn’t even call it a mistake at all. The point of melting down the dagger is more thematic anyway. Getting so drawn up in such a minor detail as the color of the metals during the smelting scene while touting the source material as some magnificent work of art that shouldn’t be tampered with despite it being devoid of SO MUCH detail is just more nitpicking from the usual suspects. Taking extra time to go into detail on the crafting process wasn’t going to make them happy anyway.
    Last edited by Adamas102; 2022-10-19 at 05:52 PM.

  20. #7360
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    17,339
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    I wouldn’t call it a mistake at all. The point of melting down the dagger is more thematic anyway. Getting so drawn up in such a minor detail as the color of the metal while touting the source material as some magnificent work of art that shouldn’t be tampered with despite it being devoid of SO MUCH detail is just more nitpicking from the usual suspects.
    If each ingot was turned into a ring then it does indicate a mistake unless one is just gold-plated. There isn't much silver-colored metal on Vilya. It is possible they just had a extra ingot or left over material I guess. It could be something Sauron steals in Season 2 or used to create the other rings. It isn't a big deal that a mistake like that exists but it is still a continuity goof for the show as far as we know. It being a mistake has nothing to do with Tolkien's work.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •