Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[Lorgar Aurelian]

it calls all 'fans' patently evil, if that's not universally calling everyone the same thing and blanketing everyone under the same banner then i dunno what is.

I’m not gonna watch any of those trash videos but is this the part of the interview your talking about?

Amazon claims there’s been a coordinated effort to attack the show for daring to diversify Tolkien with strong female characters and people of color. “The hardest part was for people on the cast who have had things related to them privately that are just harmful,” Sanders says.

It’s an explanation that satisfied the media but inflamed some fans who feel the company is dismissive of any criticism and arguably risked escalating what might have been a short-term dust-up into ongoing fandom trench warfare. As one wrote, “I’m tired of the constant media harangues from Amazon that if you don’t love the show, you’re racist.” Many point out HBO’s House of the Dragon faced similar trolling for its diversity moves, yet its audience scores weren’t impacted.

But it’s also possible Rings‘ percentage of agenda-based reviews might be much higher than for Dragon. Tolkien’s world has a long, unfortunate history of attracting fascist-adjacent admirers, something that surely would have repulsed the fantasy world’s anti-totalitarian author, whose Rings trilogy was inspired by the horrors of World War I. Italy’s newly elected far-right nationalist leader, Giorgia Meloni, for example, has been an outspoken Tolkien fan, unhelpfully.

Or take this fan’s complaint: A Tolkien adaptation is a “New Age politically correct girl-power garbage version of fantasy” that’s “raping the text.” That sounds like what’s populating Rotten Tomatoes and IMDb right now, but it was actually quoted in Wired magazine in 2001 for a story about Tolkien fandom’s reaction to Jackson’s The Fellowship of the Ring.

Payne looks particularly distressed by the topic. “The spirit of Tolkien is about disparate peoples who don’t trust one another and look different from one another finding common ground in friendship and accomplishing big things,” he says. “That’s the spirit we’ve tried to inculcate into every single comma and period in the show. That this aspiration would be offensive to people and enrage them … it’s very hard for us to understand. What are they protecting? I don’t see how people who are saying these things think that they’re fighting for good. There’s a line in episode seven where Galadriel says every war is fought from without and within. Even if you’re fighting for something you think is good, if you do something worse in that fight, then you become evil. I don’t see how people who are saying these things think that they’re fighting for good. It’s patently evil.”

Because if it is then you clearly got taken for a ride by abunch of trash YouTubers because this isn’t by any stretch calling all fans evil.

[rogoth]

I’m not gonna watch any of those trash videos but is this the part of the interview your talking about?



Because if it is then you clearly got taken for a ride by abunch of trash YouTubers because this isn’t by any stretch calling all fans evil.

i haven't watched any of these videos myself, i searched for a term and found a list of videos that showed up all saying the same thing.

i don't know because i can't read the stupid article with the title of calling fans 'patently evil' which i have actually seen posted on multiple forums and in youtube video thumbnails, so unless hundreds of people are all using the same photoshopped image i'm gonna go out on a limb and say that it's accurate.

i'm going off what a friend of mine at work said to me when this whole thing came out and i just shrugged and said 'it doesn't surprise me when all Amazon wants to do is push THE MESSAGE alongside the utter bullshit they did prior to this things release', and frankly i stand by every word of that because they paid vanity fair and a bunch of other rag publications prior to release to publish fluff pieces sucking on their cocks telling them how awesome it was, all the while these people either haven't bothered to watch said show, or have slated it months later when the bribe money has worn off.

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You don't think anyone is surprised that this the sort of garabage youtube thinks you want to watch, given the sort of garbage you regurgitate all over the thread. Do you?

so you're telling me that i found all these videos using a specific search term and somehow the youtube algorithm is behind it because you and the other sycophantic excuses in this thread believe it's what i watch?, i wish i had that kind of fucking time to waste kiddo, i truly do, but i don't, and even if i did i have far better fucking things to do with my time than waste of that sort of thing, try again when you realise not everybody thinks in such asinine terms as you do.

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The article is perfectly readable to me and I'm not in the US. Just using my phone's standard browser.

The videos you've posted is a perfect example how algorithms work because when I type in those words, none of those videos show up.

so give some examples of what shows up for you then, because i defy to believe none of these videos with these titles would show up in such a search, one of these videos uses literally the same words as part of its title, so saying it doesn't show up says to me you either ignored it on purpose or you didn't care to look hard enough.

[Syegfryed]

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I find it funny that you, too, do not, you know, provide ANY EVIDENCE of these things, either There's a pattern forming here, alright, but it's definitely forming on more than one side of the debate.

Im curious what evidence do you need? there is interviews from the showrunners calling the fans patently evil and racists yada yada. There is even one that says shit about right wing or whatever.

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Because if it is then you clearly got taken for a ride by abunch of trash YouTubers because this isn’t by any stretch calling all fans evil.

Not all, just the ones who disliked the show LUL

[MCMLXXXII]

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so give some examples of what shows up for you then, because i defy to believe none of these videos with these titles would show up in such a search, one of these videos uses literally the same words as part of its title, so saying it doesn't show up says to me you either ignored it on purpose or you didn't care to look hard enough.

I don't watch YouTube shows so my algorithm isn't as messed up as most people.
I mean, it fully deserves some of the criticism it gets. If you compare the series to HotD there's a clear quality gap but most hate it gets is just nitpicking just to be batching about something.

[rogoth]

I don't watch YouTube shows so my algorithm isn't as messed up as most people.
I mean, it fully deserves some of the criticism it gets. If you compare the series to HotD there's a clear quality gap but most hate it gets is just nitpicking just to be batching about something.

i wouldn't exactly call rewriting all established lore and canon as nitpicking, i wouldn't call completely changing fundamental character stories nitpicking, it's a badly written fan fiction pile of shite wrapped in shiny paper trying to be passed off as something it's very much not, and the fact they just ripped lines directly from the PJ trilogy of movies, it's the meme of 'can i copy your homework' - 'sure just change it so it's not obvious' - fails to change anything whatsoever, it's a joke, that's not nitpicking.

as far as your list is concerned, i opened every one of the vids i linked to copy/paste the links to be able to have them show up on this forum, so i have likely skewed my algorithm in that regard, but even without that you have at least 1 author from the list i had, and a couple of those videos i have never heard of the people making them, so i'm assuming they are related to the same stuff i linked i might need to look and see.

[MCMLXXXII]

i wouldn't exactly call rewriting all established lore and canon as nitpicking, i wouldn't call completely changing fundamental character stories nitpicking, it's a badly written fan fiction pile of shite wrapped in shiny paper trying to be passed off as something it's very much not, and the fact they just ripped lines directly from the PJ trilogy of movies, it's the meme of 'can i copy your homework' - 'sure just change it so it's not obvious' - fails to change anything whatsoever, it's a joke, that's not nitpicking.

as far as your list is concerned, i opened every one of the vids i linked to copy/paste the links to be able to have them show up on this forum, so i have likely skewed my algorithm in that regard, but even without that you have at least 1 author from the list i had, and a couple of those videos i have never heard of the people making them, so i'm assuming they are related to the same stuff i linked i might need to look and see.

I haven't defined which criticism I think is nitpicking but you automatically assume that I find yours is....

Worst offender, for me, is the pacing. It's irritating to watch. Second is, indeed, ignoring and dismissing the original lore they could use. Especially the cramming of a thousand years in a single season, which looks to me taking place in about a year or so.
Still I'll give it a 6/10 because it isn't even close to the worst thing ever happened on television.

[jonnysensible]

I don't watch YouTube shows so my algorithm isn't as messed up as most people.
I mean, it fully deserves some of the criticism it gets. If you compare the series to HotD there's a clear quality gap but most hate it gets is just nitpicking just to be batching about something.

amazing that there is a neonazi on the first page (brittany sellner, her husband is more notorious gave money to the christchurch massacre terrorist)

[rhorle]

it calls all 'fans' patently evil, if that's not universally calling everyone the same thing and blanketing everyone under the same banner then i dunno what is.

It does not call all fans patently evil. Only those saying nasty things over diversity. The context is clear if you actually go to the source rather then what an influencer is feeding you.

"Payne looks particularly distressed by the topic. “The spirit of Tolkien is about disparate peoples who don’t trust one another and look different from one another finding common ground in friendship and accomplishing big things,” he says. “That’s the spirit we’ve tried to inculcate into every single comma and period in the show. That this aspiration would be offensive to people and enrage them … it’s very hard for us to understand. What are they protecting? I don’t see how people who are saying these things think that they’re fighting for good. There’s a line in episode seven where Galadriel says every war is fought from without and within. Even if you’re fighting for something you think is good, if you do something worse in that fight, then you become evil. I don’t see how people who are saying these things think that they’re fighting for good. It’s patently evil.”

[Lorgar Aurelian]

i haven't watched any of these videos myself, i searched for a term and found a list of videos that showed up all saying the same thing.

So not only did you not real the article you didn’t even watch the videos about it so your not even parroting second hand bullshit your all the way onto third hand bullshit.

Man that’s a impressive amount of gullibility.

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Not all, just the ones who disliked the show LUL

I mean if the only people who dislike the show are those against “ The spirit of Tolkien is about disparate peoples who don’t trust one another and look different from one another finding common ground in friendship and accomplishing big things” then sure, this thread isn’t lacking for those kinds of Fans though I wouldn’t say it’s all the people who dislike the show.

[Rennadrel]

It does not call all fans patently evil. Only those saying nasty things over diversity. The context is clear if you actually go to the source rather then what an influencer is feeding you.

"Payne looks particularly distressed by the topic. “The spirit of Tolkien is about disparate peoples who don’t trust one another and look different from one another finding common ground in friendship and accomplishing big things,” he says. “That’s the spirit we’ve tried to inculcate into every single comma and period in the show. That this aspiration would be offensive to people and enrage them … it’s very hard for us to understand. What are they protecting? I don’t see how people who are saying these things think that they’re fighting for good. There’s a line in episode seven where Galadriel says every war is fought from without and within. Even if you’re fighting for something you think is good, if you do something worse in that fight, then you become evil. I don’t see how people who are saying these things think that they’re fighting for good. It’s patently evil.”

None of what they claim the show is about, is how the show is actually written. Maybe they shouldn't misrepresent what their narrative and their characters actually represent, because it certainly isn't a group of people from all walks of life finding common ground since the actions of the Harfoots and Galadrial in particular are the total opposite.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

None of what they claim the show is about, is how the show is actually written. Maybe they shouldn't misrepresent what their narrative and their characters actually represent, because it certainly isn't a group of people from all walks of life finding common ground since the actions of the Harfoots and Galadrial in particular are the total opposite.

There talking about the production/casting and how it relates to the themes of Tolkien and how some fans are against it not the actual narrative of the show it self.

[rogoth]

It does not call all fans patently evil. Only those saying nasty things over diversity. The context is clear if you actually go to the source rather then what an influencer is feeding you.

"Payne looks particularly distressed by the topic. “The spirit of Tolkien is about disparate peoples who don’t trust one another and look different from one another finding common ground in friendship and accomplishing big things,” he says. “That’s the spirit we’ve tried to inculcate into every single comma and period in the show. That this aspiration would be offensive to people and enrage them … it’s very hard for us to understand. What are they protecting? I don’t see how people who are saying these things think that they’re fighting for good. There’s a line in episode seven where Galadriel says every war is fought from without and within. Even if you’re fighting for something you think is good, if you do something worse in that fight, then you become evil. I don’t see how people who are saying these things think that they’re fighting for good. It’s patently evil.”

and who are they exactly, because nobody can find anybody saying anything like that anywhere, not one single solitary example of blatant racism, 99.999% of the casting criticism for both race and sex are valid and backed up by the pre-existing canon, which these clowns running the circus ignored at every turn, so please, show me somewhere ANYWHERE someone making a blatant racist or sexist claim born purely out of racism/sexism, because so far after months of banging on their drum there hasn't been a single example provided to back up those claims, don't worry i'm patient, i can wait for you to find it, if it even exists at all.

[Syegfryed]

I mean if the only people who dislike the show are those against “ The spirit of Tolkien is about disparate peoples who don’t trust one another and look different from one another finding common ground in friendship and accomplishing big things” then sure, this thread isn’t lacking for those kinds of Fans though I wouldn’t say it’s all the people who dislike the show.

Except you know, that was not the spirit of tolkien, and even if it was you can't make that shit up to defend your shit show?

Like, the showrunners straight up make a fallacy that people who dislike the show are people who dislike the idea of different people finding common ground in friendship, that is completely bogus and dishonest, it's a lie, people don't like it because its garbage and it have nothing to do with that or diversity.

[MCMLXXXII]

But most of the criticism before anything had aired yet was about a black dwarf and an elf played by a Puerto Rican. Mostly by the so-called Tolkien purists.

[Syegfryed]

But most of the criticism before anything had aired yet was about a black dwarf and an elf played by a Puerto Rican. Mostly by the so-called Tolkien purists.

Criticism of that is bound to be expected because people wanted a faithful adaptation, but it was not just that, as much people like to claim it, people were complaining about the timeline, about the lore changes etc.

And once the show aired, no one complained about a black dwarf or elf anymore, because the show was so bad you don't even care about that, and Desa was one of the best characters except for the last episode with her.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Except you know, that was not the spirit of tolkien, and even if it was you can't make that shit up to defend your shit show?

So Tolkien didn't write LotR then? or is it that all the messages and idea written into the text and that he spoke about personally are actually all wrong or mean something else?

Like, the showrunners straight up make a fallacy that people who dislike the show are people who dislike the idea of different people finding common ground in friendship, that is completely bogus and dishonest, it's a lie, people don't like it because its garbage and it have nothing to do with that or diversity.

that's not something that happens in the Article were talking about they address actual criticism while pointing out that there are people who are against people finding common ground/friendship when it comes to the show's production.

Criticism they can handle, and they’ve heard it all. Everything fans have debated, they say, they likewise argued among the creative team. They readily admit, for instance, that some of the first-season episodes lack the urgency fans expect from Tolkien adaptations.

“One of the big things we learned was even when it’s a small scene, it always has to tie back into the larger stakes,” Payne says.

“There are things that didn’t work as well in season one that might have worked in a smaller show,” McKay agrees. “It has to be about good and evil and the fate of the world or it doesn’t have that epic feeling you want when you’re in Tolkien.”

I mean you have to look no futher then this very thread to find post of people who hated the show before we saw any thing but posters and a teaser, to pretend people didn't hate it because of Diversity is far more dishonest then any thing the showrunners have said in that article.

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And once the show aired, no one complained about a black dwarf or elf anymore, because the show was so bad you don't even care about that, and Desa was one of the best characters except for the last episode with her.

This is a blatant lie we had the black elf's and dwarfs and how they shouldn't exist brought up almost every other episode in this thread.

[rhorle]

Except you know, that was not the spirit of tolkien, and even if it was you can't make that shit up to defend your shit show?

It wasn't? What was the Fellowship then? The entire core of Lord of the Rings was different types of people coming together. They never said people who dislike the show are people that dislike different people coming together. Again it was only in reference to those making racist comments over the diversity of the show.

Of course people dislike it for reasons that have nothing to do with diversity. You keep acting offended when the anti-diversity group gets called out though.

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And once the show aired, no one complained about a black dwarf or elf anymore, because the show was so bad you don't even care about that, and Desa was one of the best characters except for the last episode with her.

If it happened in this very thread half way into the season you can guarentee it is still happening elsewhere on the internet. I'm not sure why you even feel the need to claim it hasn't happened or is not happening anymore. What is so hard about accepting that there is a group of people out there complaining about those things? It doesn't make your criticisms any less valid just because you also accept that the Show is right to call out that group.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post53934170

[Syegfryed]

So Tolkien didn't write LotR then? or is it that all the messages and idea written into the text and that he spoke about personally are actually all wrong or mean something else?

Then the spirit of tolkien is Lord of the rings? you are implying he don't have any other books or stories? that have jackshit to do with different races friendship? lmao

that's not something that happens in the Article were talking about they address actual criticism while pointing out that there are people who are against people finding common ground/friendship when it comes to the show's production.

And that is a fucking lie, nobody complained about "different races finding common ground", a big fat lie, its straight up a strawman they did to attack, and you know it

I mean you have to look no futher then this very thread to find post of people who hated the show before we saw any thing but posters and a teaser, to pretend people didn't hate it because of Diversity is far more dishonest then any thing the showrunners have said in that article.

Before the show aired, nobody complained about this later, and using that as a shield is asinine

Same thing happened with house of the dragon, there was race change, people complained before, but later didn't care because the show was good.

This is a blatant lie we had the black elf's and dwarfs and how they shouldn't exist brought up almost every other episode in this thread.

That is not true, at all.

And commenting they should not be, in an attempt to say they would prefer more faithful is one thing, but nobody attacked the show because of it

Thread had hundreds of comments after the show aired and you could count in your hand how many people complain about that, it was just the same people, you included, that like to spin the thread in that direction and derail it, like you are doing now.

There was a time everyone was complaining about the show, and nobody saw the "same faces" we see on those subjects, but when one person slightly mention , the "same faces" wail on his ass, like people were surveying the topic waiting for the moment.

People cannot defend the show because is garbage, so people wait until someone mention race, so they can attack, like you and Rhorle are doing now

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Then the spirit of tolkien is Lord of the rings? you are implying he don't have any other books or stories? that have jackshit to do with different races friendship? lmao

you really want to die on the hill of "Tolkien didn't care about people setting aside there differences and working together for a greater good", I really can't think of a worse hill to die on when it comes to Tolkien.

And that is a fucking lie, nobody complained about "different races finding common ground", a big fat lie, its straight up a strawman they did to attack, and you know it

Your absolutely right the complains weren't any where near that clean and were far more racist and sexist, the show runners really should have said what people were really saying mabye even post the racist memes of the black dwarf with a fried chicken.

Before the show aired, nobody complained about this later, and using that as a shield is asinine

Same thing happened with house of the dragon, there was race change, people complained before, but later didn't care because the show was good.

That is not true, at all.

And commenting they should not be, in an attempt to say they would prefer more faithful is one thing, but nobody attacked the show because of it

Thread had hundreds of comments after the show aired and you could count in your hand how many people complain about that, it was just the same people, you included, that like to spin the thread in that direction and derail it, like you are doing now.

There was a time everyone was complaining about the show, and nobody saw the "same faces" we see on those subjects, but when one person slightly mention , the "same faces" wail on his ass, like people were surveying the topic waiting for the moment.

People cannot defend the show because is garbage, so people wait until someone mention race, so they can attack, like you and Rhorle are doing now

Again just a blatant lie, your more dishonest then the showrunners on there worse day.

[rhorle]

People cannot defend the show because is garbage, so people wait until someone mention race, so they can attack, like you and Rhorle are doing now

So why can't you say that the Show was right about some critics being patently evil because of racists attacks? It doesn't changing anything about problems with the show. The only one that keeps using it as a shield is you, and others, that have an all or nothing approach. As in you have to be against all things the show does.

There is a reason why it doesn't get discussed much in this thread and that is it is a forbidden topic.