Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[rhorle]

Amazon paid the hollywood reporter for a fluff piece where they lambasted 'fans' for 'patently evil' remarks about people of colour, while being unable to provide ANY EVIDENCE of said claims

Have you been living under a rock? How could you not see the various attacks over those things? Amazon doesn't need to provide proof when YouTube, social media, and even this very thread indicate it is a thing. They have never once claimed that the only criticism from fans was about diversity. The only thing they have called patently evil is the remarks about diversity. Even the Hollywood Reporter "fluff piece" as you call it writes that they are not blaming all criticism on one topic. The only one not accepting factual events here is yourself.

"Criticism they can handle, and they’ve heard it all. Everything fans have debated, they say, they likewise argued among the creative team. They readily admit, for instance, that some of the first-season episodes lack the urgency fans expect from Tolkien adaptations."-- https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv...-2-1235233124/[/I]

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the reason for that is because those articles on both the hollywood reporter website and the insider magazine website are all locked behind paywalls

The Hollywood Reporter article that uses patently evil is not locked behind a paywall. It shows the context isn't all criticism against the show. Listening only to Youtubers that feed an echo chamber based on algorithms isn't proof of anything. There has even been a website, boundingintocomics, that has been pushing lies about the show for years now.

[Xath]

surprising to me because i didnt like the wheel of time books, didnt much like game of thrones and really like hobbit/lotr (but basically everything else by Tolkien is unreadable, Silmarillion is truly bad)

Not really that surprising. Wheel is an entirely defined book series. Both House and Rings are based on content that hasn't been fully fleshed out. Despite this Wheel is very arguably the most radical departure from the source material with massive massive changes and tons of random trash added that flat out never occurred in the books. So if you actually like the source material Wheel is by far the most egregious outlier in terms of a show runners ego running wild. Rings is second since it ignores a significant chunk of the few defined things about the second age but there was never a completely set out story of the second age. House was made with input from Martin how much is unsure but it was a lot more than the none given to obviously dead authors.

[rogoth]

This is what I mean lol.

"These fuckers aren't presenting any evidence!!!!!! ...but I don't have to present evidence, because fuck that, if you want to find it, it's out there."

You could well be right about your points. We'll never know, because all you can do is yell angrily, accusing people of doing what you yourself practice.

That's how we get into these hare-brained debates, really. There are valid points buried in all of this, somewhere, but damn it's hard to dig through all the dreck rhetoric to find them.

the following video is a fluff piece that shows 0 evidence of the claims they tried to make:





















all of these videos are the first ones that show up when i typed into youtube 'rings of power racism'

there were dozens more videos i could link regarding the topic, and many of these linked talk directly about the articles i stated in my previous response, and like i said, i'm not paying a subscription to view content i have no interest in, just to prove a point, if you're willing to pay it for me then that's another story, but right now i don't have the money to waste on such bullshit detritus.

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Have you been living under a rock? How could you not see the various attacks over those things? Amazon doesn't need to provide proof when YouTube, social media, and even this very thread indicate it is a thing. They have never once claimed that the only criticism from fans was about diversity. The only thing they have called patently evil is the remarks about diversity. Even the Hollywood Reporter "fluff piece" as you call it writes that they are not blaming all criticism on one topic. The only one not accepting factual events here is yourself.

"Criticism they can handle, and they’ve heard it all. Everything fans have debated, they say, they likewise argued among the creative team. They readily admit, for instance, that some of the first-season episodes lack the urgency fans expect from Tolkien adaptations."-- https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv...-2-1235233124/[/I]

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The Hollywood Reporter article that uses patently evil is not locked behind a paywall. It shows the context isn't all criticism against the show. Listening only to Youtubers that feed an echo chamber based on algorithms isn't proof of anything. There has even been a website, boundingintocomics, that has been pushing lies about the show for years now.

yes, it is, i'm not able to view the page without buying a premium subscription when i load up the article link, so try again, same goes for the insider magazine page, it's telling me i must pay for a subscription to view the related media, otherwise all i get is a white popup box directing me to their subscription pay portal or the FAQ page, but i guess you never thought about the fact that different regions of the world have different usage rights did you?, still living in your pathetic american bubble i see.

it calls all 'fans' patently evil, if that's not universally calling everyone the same thing and blanketing everyone under the same banner then i dunno what is.

and now you're trying to justify things with a pathetic interview with these clowns masquerading as showrunners saying they debated the same topics that 'fans' have been debating for months and they purposely and knowingly made the same terrible decisions they did anyway regardless? how is that kind of negligence even allowed?

[MCMLXXXII]

The article is perfectly readable to me and I'm not in the US. Just using my phone's standard browser.

The videos you've posted is a perfect example how algorithms work because when I type in those words, none of those videos show up.

[s_bushido]

all of these videos are the first ones that show up when i typed into youtube 'rings of power racism'

You don't think anyone is surprised that this the sort of garabage youtube thinks you want to watch, given the sort of garbage you regurgitate all over the thread. Do you?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

it calls all 'fans' patently evil, if that's not universally calling everyone the same thing and blanketing everyone under the same banner then i dunno what is.

I’m not gonna watch any of those trash videos but is this the part of the interview your talking about?

Amazon claims there’s been a coordinated effort to attack the show for daring to diversify Tolkien with strong female characters and people of color. “The hardest part was for people on the cast who have had things related to them privately that are just harmful,” Sanders says.

It’s an explanation that satisfied the media but inflamed some fans who feel the company is dismissive of any criticism and arguably risked escalating what might have been a short-term dust-up into ongoing fandom trench warfare. As one wrote, “I’m tired of the constant media harangues from Amazon that if you don’t love the show, you’re racist.” Many point out HBO’s House of the Dragon faced similar trolling for its diversity moves, yet its audience scores weren’t impacted.

But it’s also possible Rings‘ percentage of agenda-based reviews might be much higher than for Dragon. Tolkien’s world has a long, unfortunate history of attracting fascist-adjacent admirers, something that surely would have repulsed the fantasy world’s anti-totalitarian author, whose Rings trilogy was inspired by the horrors of World War I. Italy’s newly elected far-right nationalist leader, Giorgia Meloni, for example, has been an outspoken Tolkien fan, unhelpfully.

Or take this fan’s complaint: A Tolkien adaptation is a “New Age politically correct girl-power garbage version of fantasy” that’s “raping the text.” That sounds like what’s populating Rotten Tomatoes and IMDb right now, but it was actually quoted in Wired magazine in 2001 for a story about Tolkien fandom’s reaction to Jackson’s The Fellowship of the Ring.

Payne looks particularly distressed by the topic. “The spirit of Tolkien is about disparate peoples who don’t trust one another and look different from one another finding common ground in friendship and accomplishing big things,” he says. “That’s the spirit we’ve tried to inculcate into every single comma and period in the show. That this aspiration would be offensive to people and enrage them … it’s very hard for us to understand. What are they protecting? I don’t see how people who are saying these things think that they’re fighting for good. There’s a line in episode seven where Galadriel says every war is fought from without and within. Even if you’re fighting for something you think is good, if you do something worse in that fight, then you become evil. I don’t see how people who are saying these things think that they’re fighting for good. It’s patently evil.”

Because if it is then you clearly got taken for a ride by abunch of trash YouTubers because this isn’t by any stretch calling all fans evil.

[rogoth]

I’m not gonna watch any of those trash videos but is this the part of the interview your talking about?



Because if it is then you clearly got taken for a ride by abunch of trash YouTubers because this isn’t by any stretch calling all fans evil.

i haven't watched any of these videos myself, i searched for a term and found a list of videos that showed up all saying the same thing.

i don't know because i can't read the stupid article with the title of calling fans 'patently evil' which i have actually seen posted on multiple forums and in youtube video thumbnails, so unless hundreds of people are all using the same photoshopped image i'm gonna go out on a limb and say that it's accurate.

i'm going off what a friend of mine at work said to me when this whole thing came out and i just shrugged and said 'it doesn't surprise me when all Amazon wants to do is push THE MESSAGE alongside the utter bullshit they did prior to this things release', and frankly i stand by every word of that because they paid vanity fair and a bunch of other rag publications prior to release to publish fluff pieces sucking on their cocks telling them how awesome it was, all the while these people either haven't bothered to watch said show, or have slated it months later when the bribe money has worn off.

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You don't think anyone is surprised that this the sort of garabage youtube thinks you want to watch, given the sort of garbage you regurgitate all over the thread. Do you?

so you're telling me that i found all these videos using a specific search term and somehow the youtube algorithm is behind it because you and the other sycophantic excuses in this thread believe it's what i watch?, i wish i had that kind of fucking time to waste kiddo, i truly do, but i don't, and even if i did i have far better fucking things to do with my time than waste of that sort of thing, try again when you realise not everybody thinks in such asinine terms as you do.

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The article is perfectly readable to me and I'm not in the US. Just using my phone's standard browser.

The videos you've posted is a perfect example how algorithms work because when I type in those words, none of those videos show up.

so give some examples of what shows up for you then, because i defy to believe none of these videos with these titles would show up in such a search, one of these videos uses literally the same words as part of its title, so saying it doesn't show up says to me you either ignored it on purpose or you didn't care to look hard enough.

[Syegfryed]

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I find it funny that you, too, do not, you know, provide ANY EVIDENCE of these things, either There's a pattern forming here, alright, but it's definitely forming on more than one side of the debate.

Im curious what evidence do you need? there is interviews from the showrunners calling the fans patently evil and racists yada yada. There is even one that says shit about right wing or whatever.

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Because if it is then you clearly got taken for a ride by abunch of trash YouTubers because this isn’t by any stretch calling all fans evil.

Not all, just the ones who disliked the show LUL

[MCMLXXXII]

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so give some examples of what shows up for you then, because i defy to believe none of these videos with these titles would show up in such a search, one of these videos uses literally the same words as part of its title, so saying it doesn't show up says to me you either ignored it on purpose or you didn't care to look hard enough.

I don't watch YouTube shows so my algorithm isn't as messed up as most people.
I mean, it fully deserves some of the criticism it gets. If you compare the series to HotD there's a clear quality gap but most hate it gets is just nitpicking just to be batching about something.

[rogoth]

I don't watch YouTube shows so my algorithm isn't as messed up as most people.
I mean, it fully deserves some of the criticism it gets. If you compare the series to HotD there's a clear quality gap but most hate it gets is just nitpicking just to be batching about something.

i wouldn't exactly call rewriting all established lore and canon as nitpicking, i wouldn't call completely changing fundamental character stories nitpicking, it's a badly written fan fiction pile of shite wrapped in shiny paper trying to be passed off as something it's very much not, and the fact they just ripped lines directly from the PJ trilogy of movies, it's the meme of 'can i copy your homework' - 'sure just change it so it's not obvious' - fails to change anything whatsoever, it's a joke, that's not nitpicking.

as far as your list is concerned, i opened every one of the vids i linked to copy/paste the links to be able to have them show up on this forum, so i have likely skewed my algorithm in that regard, but even without that you have at least 1 author from the list i had, and a couple of those videos i have never heard of the people making them, so i'm assuming they are related to the same stuff i linked i might need to look and see.

[MCMLXXXII]

i wouldn't exactly call rewriting all established lore and canon as nitpicking, i wouldn't call completely changing fundamental character stories nitpicking, it's a badly written fan fiction pile of shite wrapped in shiny paper trying to be passed off as something it's very much not, and the fact they just ripped lines directly from the PJ trilogy of movies, it's the meme of 'can i copy your homework' - 'sure just change it so it's not obvious' - fails to change anything whatsoever, it's a joke, that's not nitpicking.

as far as your list is concerned, i opened every one of the vids i linked to copy/paste the links to be able to have them show up on this forum, so i have likely skewed my algorithm in that regard, but even without that you have at least 1 author from the list i had, and a couple of those videos i have never heard of the people making them, so i'm assuming they are related to the same stuff i linked i might need to look and see.

I haven't defined which criticism I think is nitpicking but you automatically assume that I find yours is....

Worst offender, for me, is the pacing. It's irritating to watch. Second is, indeed, ignoring and dismissing the original lore they could use. Especially the cramming of a thousand years in a single season, which looks to me taking place in about a year or so.
Still I'll give it a 6/10 because it isn't even close to the worst thing ever happened on television.

[jonnysensible]

I don't watch YouTube shows so my algorithm isn't as messed up as most people.
I mean, it fully deserves some of the criticism it gets. If you compare the series to HotD there's a clear quality gap but most hate it gets is just nitpicking just to be batching about something.

amazing that there is a neonazi on the first page (brittany sellner, her husband is more notorious gave money to the christchurch massacre terrorist)

[rhorle]

it calls all 'fans' patently evil, if that's not universally calling everyone the same thing and blanketing everyone under the same banner then i dunno what is.

It does not call all fans patently evil. Only those saying nasty things over diversity. The context is clear if you actually go to the source rather then what an influencer is feeding you.

"Payne looks particularly distressed by the topic. “The spirit of Tolkien is about disparate peoples who don’t trust one another and look different from one another finding common ground in friendship and accomplishing big things,” he says. “That’s the spirit we’ve tried to inculcate into every single comma and period in the show. That this aspiration would be offensive to people and enrage them … it’s very hard for us to understand. What are they protecting? I don’t see how people who are saying these things think that they’re fighting for good. There’s a line in episode seven where Galadriel says every war is fought from without and within. Even if you’re fighting for something you think is good, if you do something worse in that fight, then you become evil. I don’t see how people who are saying these things think that they’re fighting for good. It’s patently evil.”

[Lorgar Aurelian]

i haven't watched any of these videos myself, i searched for a term and found a list of videos that showed up all saying the same thing.

So not only did you not real the article you didn’t even watch the videos about it so your not even parroting second hand bullshit your all the way onto third hand bullshit.

Man that’s a impressive amount of gullibility.

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Not all, just the ones who disliked the show LUL

I mean if the only people who dislike the show are those against “ The spirit of Tolkien is about disparate peoples who don’t trust one another and look different from one another finding common ground in friendship and accomplishing big things” then sure, this thread isn’t lacking for those kinds of Fans though I wouldn’t say it’s all the people who dislike the show.

[Rennadrel]

It does not call all fans patently evil. Only those saying nasty things over diversity. The context is clear if you actually go to the source rather then what an influencer is feeding you.

"Payne looks particularly distressed by the topic. “The spirit of Tolkien is about disparate peoples who don’t trust one another and look different from one another finding common ground in friendship and accomplishing big things,” he says. “That’s the spirit we’ve tried to inculcate into every single comma and period in the show. That this aspiration would be offensive to people and enrage them … it’s very hard for us to understand. What are they protecting? I don’t see how people who are saying these things think that they’re fighting for good. There’s a line in episode seven where Galadriel says every war is fought from without and within. Even if you’re fighting for something you think is good, if you do something worse in that fight, then you become evil. I don’t see how people who are saying these things think that they’re fighting for good. It’s patently evil.”

None of what they claim the show is about, is how the show is actually written. Maybe they shouldn't misrepresent what their narrative and their characters actually represent, because it certainly isn't a group of people from all walks of life finding common ground since the actions of the Harfoots and Galadrial in particular are the total opposite.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

None of what they claim the show is about, is how the show is actually written. Maybe they shouldn't misrepresent what their narrative and their characters actually represent, because it certainly isn't a group of people from all walks of life finding common ground since the actions of the Harfoots and Galadrial in particular are the total opposite.

There talking about the production/casting and how it relates to the themes of Tolkien and how some fans are against it not the actual narrative of the show it self.

[rogoth]

It does not call all fans patently evil. Only those saying nasty things over diversity. The context is clear if you actually go to the source rather then what an influencer is feeding you.

"Payne looks particularly distressed by the topic. “The spirit of Tolkien is about disparate peoples who don’t trust one another and look different from one another finding common ground in friendship and accomplishing big things,” he says. “That’s the spirit we’ve tried to inculcate into every single comma and period in the show. That this aspiration would be offensive to people and enrage them … it’s very hard for us to understand. What are they protecting? I don’t see how people who are saying these things think that they’re fighting for good. There’s a line in episode seven where Galadriel says every war is fought from without and within. Even if you’re fighting for something you think is good, if you do something worse in that fight, then you become evil. I don’t see how people who are saying these things think that they’re fighting for good. It’s patently evil.”

and who are they exactly, because nobody can find anybody saying anything like that anywhere, not one single solitary example of blatant racism, 99.999% of the casting criticism for both race and sex are valid and backed up by the pre-existing canon, which these clowns running the circus ignored at every turn, so please, show me somewhere ANYWHERE someone making a blatant racist or sexist claim born purely out of racism/sexism, because so far after months of banging on their drum there hasn't been a single example provided to back up those claims, don't worry i'm patient, i can wait for you to find it, if it even exists at all.

[Syegfryed]

I mean if the only people who dislike the show are those against “ The spirit of Tolkien is about disparate peoples who don’t trust one another and look different from one another finding common ground in friendship and accomplishing big things” then sure, this thread isn’t lacking for those kinds of Fans though I wouldn’t say it’s all the people who dislike the show.

Except you know, that was not the spirit of tolkien, and even if it was you can't make that shit up to defend your shit show?

Like, the showrunners straight up make a fallacy that people who dislike the show are people who dislike the idea of different people finding common ground in friendship, that is completely bogus and dishonest, it's a lie, people don't like it because its garbage and it have nothing to do with that or diversity.

[MCMLXXXII]

But most of the criticism before anything had aired yet was about a black dwarf and an elf played by a Puerto Rican. Mostly by the so-called Tolkien purists.

[Syegfryed]

But most of the criticism before anything had aired yet was about a black dwarf and an elf played by a Puerto Rican. Mostly by the so-called Tolkien purists.

Criticism of that is bound to be expected because people wanted a faithful adaptation, but it was not just that, as much people like to claim it, people were complaining about the timeline, about the lore changes etc.

And once the show aired, no one complained about a black dwarf or elf anymore, because the show was so bad you don't even care about that, and Desa was one of the best characters except for the last episode with her.