Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[eschatological]

Warning: End this derail about race and casting right now. It has always been offtopic for this thread and subforum. All of you know better.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

You straight up said "i was going to die on the hill saying he didn't care about it" 100% a strawman since i never said that, and YOU are saying im doing fallacies, ayyyyyy lmao.

You must be aware that the post that was in reply to you said "you are implying he don't have any other books or stories?" right? something no one said or even hinted to and you brought up to attack out of no where? your looking for fallacies every where while ignoring that your the one using them first.

.

It didn't take long for you pull out an ad hominem right?

You call it an ad hominem I call it obvious observations.

So you are telling me there is a hidden message in the very same interview... They didn't want to say what they are saying, Just like the show is a 8hour allegory...amazing

If by hidden message you mean they didn't want to say some fans were calling the cast N****r's and making racism memes about them sure.

though they must be really bad at hiding the messages as every one knows what they mean even if you want to pretend like we don't.

[InfiniteCharger]

Right. Resigning before something is announced doesn't mean he resigned before it was signed. The estate was already changing direction before he resigned which is why they were shopping rights. Could Christopher have been forced out? Sure. We don't know that and you haven't shown anything to be wrong. All you've posted is the opinion of the writer of those articles.

I gave you the dates that he resigned and the other articles state the same thing. He resigned in August not 2 days before the announcement of Amazon buying the rights. That was where you are wrong.

[rhorle]

I gave you the dates that he resigned and the other articles state the same thing. He resigned in August not 2 days before the announcement of Amazon buying the rights. That was where you are wrong.

Again, I never said he resigned around the Amazon announcement. I said it was announced or made public around that time. Hence why the article you linked to has a November date rather than an August date. Did you look at the date of the article you linked? It even has a November date in the link.

https://www.theonering.net/torwp/201...olkien-estate/

[bledgor]

The show failed for me for many reasons, but the primary reason was the fuck awful writers, who shouldn't be allowed to do anything more creative in life than stocking shelves. This was some shit tier writing, with some terrible characters/dialogue/plot. Not even going into the bastardization of Tolkien's lore. How you could fuck this up is proof that it is always possible for people to find a way to disappoint you.

[molliewoof]

Thank you, my friends, for your input. I don't get why so many people still think this new show was spectacular or groundbreakingly awesome, honestly. It had some interesting characters and points, but nothing that is above average for me at least. I mean, those of you who liked the show...what exactly about it that was so inspiring or engaging?

That being said, I do think the last episode was one of the better ones, and I actually somewhat enjoyed it, at least the Gandalf part. He reminded me of the old Gandalf, protecting the innocent and being a hero, banishing the darkness of our world by defending the weak. Everything else was...I don't know...I'm not sure what my general feelings are. I don't want to dismiss their efforts entirely, but the show's flaws should also not be glossed over.

i ended up rating it a higher 4, the way i rate tv shows 6 is higher average, five lower end of average.

i think the penultimate episode summed it up for me (the battle of the village) it was fantastic for 45 minutes and then they started talking and having a celebration after theyve all just been in a gruesome battle and held captive whilst their friends are being murdered in front of them and galadriel survives a volcanic blast. so the episode was beautiful but the story lacking, im also not sure thats how volcanoes work??

i did like the dark elfs plan coming off and i didnt see it coming though.

in the last 15 minutes the episode went from an 8 to a 6 and that was the strongest episode for me.

it feels like i have an agenda but you can just read chapter 4 of a book called the crippled god by Steven Erikson with no context except that they have just been in a grueling battle and see the difference. like i say i am biased here though, the series is the best ever written imho.

suppose id sum the series up as skin deep fun

sorry for all the spelling and grammar, my keyboard needs charging, this was difficult to type

[Veggie50]

i ended up rating it a higher 4, the way i rate tv shows 6 is higher average, five lower end of average.

i think the penultimate episode summed it up for me (the battle of the village) it was fantastic for 45 minutes and then they started talking and having a celebration after theyve all just been in a gruesome battle and held captive whilst their friends are being murdered in front of them and galadriel survives a volcanic blast. so the episode was beautiful but the story lacking, im also not sure thats how volcanoes work??

i did like the dark elfs plan coming off and i didnt see it coming though.

in the last 15 minutes the episode went from an 8 to a 6 and that was the strongest episode for me.

it feels like i have an agenda but you can just read chapter 4 of a book called the crippled god by Steven Erikson with no context except that they have just been in a grueling battle and see the difference. like i say i am biased here though, the series is the best ever written imho.

suppose id sum the series up as skin deep fun

sorry for all the spelling and grammar, my keyboard needs charging, this was difficult to type

Fun fact; this is very much how a vulcanic eruption CAN occur, though a sudden influx of water is in most “traditional” vulcanos quite rare, with underwater vulcanos its very common.

[Kumorii]

so the episode was beautiful but the story lacking, im also not sure thats how volcanoes work??

https://theconversation.com/one-does...episode-192328

And even pouring water onto a lava lake surface would produce a lot of steam, but not necessarily strong explosive eruptions because the water will cause a cooled solid crust to form on the lava surface.

The only substantial hydrovolcanic explosive eruptions have occurred where significant volumes of magma have erupted rapidly up through a body of water such as groundwater, a lake or ocean, and vigorously mixed with it triggering explosive interaction

So yeah, it can happen, though it has to be the other way around than what show did, but that's just nitpicking really. And it can happen with water pouring into the magma, but it has to be, as they put it, vigorously mixed.

Water on magma will just create steam that rises... magma on water will create steam that carries said magma with it as it rises.

[molliewoof]

Fair enough

[Veggie50]

I don't care about scientific explanations in a fantasy universe. Tolkien's explanation was "Morgoth created Mount Doom" (Morgoth was the bigger baddie before Sauron and the most powerful being in the universe). That's fine. To me it's a huge problem that the writers are like, "But we need to explain it with science!"

It'd be like if Peter Jackson decided that he had to show how Saruman was powering all his engines, and you got to see him playing with a nuclear reactor or something. It's completely silly and immersion breaking. It's like the midichlorians in Star Wars.

Criticism on this show is simultaneously that they give explanations that make real world sense and that they have unrealistic things.

How is “a sword key opens a dam kilometers away, flooding a cavernous vulcano causing an eruption” not a fantasy thing.

Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

[Jotaux]

finally spoke to some normie about this show (someone who i think read the hobbit but only watched the lotr movies and doesnt know what the Silmarillion is). And they said it was really good. This is who the show is for, someone i would describe as absolutely not online at all.

I thought it was better than house of the dragon but worse than wheel of time.

Its interesting because I've read all the LOTR books and I love the show. I will say I think The Silmarillion is trash and in my opinion Christopher Tolkien needed some cash so clumped his dad's notes together and called it a book. So my thoughts are a little skewed from the die hard Tolkien fan.

[Syegfryed]

I serious can't believe people actually like that battle episode, it was so bad that remembered me the twilight movie with he final x-men confront. They tried to hard to pull out a helm's deep but i was shallow as a cup of water.

Like, it all's keep hammering to my head, how this is fucking awfully convenient, this break the immersion of the plot, they soon to happen to know there is supposed to be a war in the southlands and they arrive a the right moment in the right place to just save half a village from a dozen of vampire orcs. And tt was rly like it was just a dozen of people doing the fighting.

Not only that, the villages actually hold their ground for a while, the ones with no formal training and bad body conditions who would not stand an orc strength. Who btw, should have good nightvision, so there was no need of torches.

They also made that stupid rope tower move and abandoned a fortified position to fight in a shit village saying now they have the advantage?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Lots of time the orcs were attacking the protagonists were not using weapons or doing something dumb for the sake of plot armor, a big orc just tossed Arondir or whatever is his name, instead of just killing it, then when he is about to do, he gets killed by deus ex machina.

This all comes down to the awful choreography, there was one scene when Arondir slaps one orc to get hold of him, so the other orc could pull him with a rope, he also falls, they wait him to get up to attack. Arondir girl gets two shots but you only see one arrow.

No fucking stakes were given, everyone was going to live anyway, there was like 3 to 4 shots i remember how they went "uuuuh be anxious cause they might die!!" no, they would not, stop trying.

Numenorians? awful, with their printed shirts tht are not even fully printed

And it all leads to they getting pompeia in the fucking face and not dying

That was by far the worst or the second worst episode.

[s_bushido]

Tolkien's explanation was "Morgoth created Mount Doom" (Morgoth was the bigger baddie before Sauron and the most powerful being in the universe). That's fine. To me it's a huge problem that the writers are like, "But we need to explain it with science!"

Causing it to erupt is not the same as creating it. The volcano was already there, (presumably) created by Morgoth when he and the other Valar were forming the world in the first place.

[rogoth]

The show failed for me for many reasons, but the primary reason was the fuck awful writers, who shouldn't be allowed to do anything more creative in life than stocking shelves. This was some shit tier writing, with some terrible characters/dialogue/plot. Not even going into the bastardization of Tolkien's lore. How you could fuck this up is proof that it is always possible for people to find a way to disappoint you.

i mean anyone with an ounce of common sense could have seen this coming a mile away, a duo who have for a decade or more had their ideas and scripts turned down by EVERYONE in hollywood, a duo who's only claim to fame is that they are acolytes to jj abrams (not a compliment), and their only 'legitimate' writing credit was an 'uncredited' role on the writing team behind a reboot of star trek: into darkness movie (again not a compliment), so anybody who expected this to be anything less than a dumpster fire was being delusional.

- - - Updated - - -

Causing it to erupt is not the same as creating it. The volcano was already there, (presumably) created by Morgoth when he and the other Valar were forming the world in the first place.

that's all well and good, but that's not how volcano's work, so even trying to force it to erupt they fucked it up, regardless of why the volcano exists in the first place, and the fact that the show did NOTHING at all to explain ANY of the meaningful exposition properly, instead they focused exclusively on the needless exposition and terrible writing in general turning what could and should have been an easy win into the biggest adaptation disaster to ever be produced, in years to come it will be used in teaching as how NOT to do something like this, and that's a pretty big accomplishment all things considered.

[rhorle]

that's all well and good, but that's not how volcano's work

Are you sure about that?

https://volcano.oregonstate.edu/hydrovolcanism
https://source.wustl.edu/2019/07/wat...an-we-thought/

[Celement]

Its interesting because I've read all the LOTR books and I love the show. I will say I think The Silmarillion is trash and in my opinion Christopher Tolkien needed some cash so clumped his dad's notes together and called it a book. So my thoughts are a little skewed from the die hard Tolkien fan.

I had the same feeling. I wasn't charitable in the slightest to the show and had doubts on Amazon's ability after the butchering of wheel of time.

I expected the trainwreck I got but I have to admit some small part of me was really hoping to be surprised. Hopefully they get the next iteration of the movies right in the 20 year cycle things get recycled in these days.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

i mean anyone with an ounce of common sense could have seen this coming a mile away, a duo who have for a decade or more had their ideas and scripts turned down by EVERYONE in hollywood, a duo who's only claim to fame is that they are acolytes to jj abrams (not a compliment), and their only 'legitimate' writing credit was an 'uncredited' role on the writing team behind a reboot of star trek: into darkness movie (again not a compliment), so anybody who expected this to be anything less than a dumpster fire was being delusional.

According to this list they had writers with experience from the Sopranos, breaking bad, better call Saul, stranger things, starwars resistance, toy story4 among other shows, seems like a pretty good range of experience.

https://m.imdb.com/title/tt7631058/fullcredits/writer

[Orby]

According to this list they had writers with experience from the Sopranos, breaking bad, better call Saul, stranger things, starwars resistance, toy story4 among other shows, seems like a pretty good range of experience.

https://m.imdb.com/title/tt7631058/fullcredits/writer

wow if that's the experience the writers had and the show was still as bad as it was, then something went very wrong. Probably an upper management decision.

[Kumorii]

wow if that's the experience the writers had and the show was still as bad as it was, then something went very wrong. Probably an upper management decision.

McKay and Payne are the ones making the stories and how things should play out. Writers of specific episodes are taking their writing and write what they want to happen into a script.
They are given the plot points and major interactions.
Then McKay and Payne and maybe even Webber have the last say in reviews of the episodes.

Nothing comes to screen without their involvement.

It's like being a graphic designer having to design a shit logo because the client wants it a certain way.
Then trying to use the artists reputation as to say, well they are good so this logo must've been good, is just disingenuous.

Being a good writer you might be able to salvage things, but if the basic plot is garbage not much can be done. Especially if the client is also set in stone on how it's supposed to be.

Could also be that experienced people sometimes make duds.

EDIT:
Now that I think about it, there's so many influences on the way to the final picture.
Creator - Writer - Screenplay - Director - Editor

Through all these parts, the client (often the creator) are the ones with the last say.

[Orby]

McKay and Payne are the ones making the stories and how things should play out. Writers of specific episodes are taking their writing and write what they want to happen into a script.
They are given the plot points and major interactions.
Then McKay and Payne and maybe even Webber have the last say in reviews of the episodes.

Nothing comes to screen without their involvement.

It's like being a graphic designer having to design a shit logo because the client wants it a certain way.
Then trying to use the artists reputation as to say, well they are good so this logo must've been good, is just disingenuous.

Being a good writer you might be able to salvage things, but if the basic plot is garbage not much can be done. Especially if the client is also set in stone on how it's supposed to be.

Yea I know, its like comic book writers or video game writers, most of the time they are told what to write, whether it through editors or head writers or senior writers or screen writers. So its usually a more filtered idea, I hate the writing process in media. Its a job I'd hate to have. Basically being told what to write instead of actually writing freely. Then again thats their job and I am sure its a job they are used to.

You really need to be organised to make all those writing positions connect.