1. #7541
    Merely a Setback Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Except you know, that was not the spirit of tolkien, and even if it was you can't make that shit up to defend your shit show?
    So Tolkien didn't write LotR then? or is it that all the messages and idea written into the text and that he spoke about personally are actually all wrong or mean something else?

    Like, the showrunners straight up make a fallacy that people who dislike the show are people who dislike the idea of different people finding common ground in friendship, that is completely bogus and dishonest, it's a lie, people don't like it because its garbage and it have nothing to do with that or diversity.
    that's not something that happens in the Article were talking about they address actual criticism while pointing out that there are people who are against people finding common ground/friendship when it comes to the show's production.


    Criticism they can handle, and they’ve heard it all. Everything fans have debated, they say, they likewise argued among the creative team. They readily admit, for instance, that some of the first-season episodes lack the urgency fans expect from Tolkien adaptations.

    “One of the big things we learned was even when it’s a small scene, it always has to tie back into the larger stakes,” Payne says.

    “There are things that didn’t work as well in season one that might have worked in a smaller show,” McKay agrees. “It has to be about good and evil and the fate of the world or it doesn’t have that epic feeling you want when you’re in Tolkien.”
    I mean you have to look no futher then this very thread to find post of people who hated the show before we saw any thing but posters and a teaser, to pretend people didn't hate it because of Diversity is far more dishonest then any thing the showrunners have said in that article.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    And once the show aired, no one complained about a black dwarf or elf anymore, because the show was so bad you don't even care about that, and Desa was one of the best characters except for the last episode with her.
    This is a blatant lie we had the black elf's and dwarfs and how they shouldn't exist brought up almost every other episode in this thread.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  2. #7542
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Except you know, that was not the spirit of tolkien, and even if it was you can't make that shit up to defend your shit show?
    It wasn't? What was the Fellowship then? The entire core of Lord of the Rings was different types of people coming together. They never said people who dislike the show are people that dislike different people coming together. Again it was only in reference to those making racist comments over the diversity of the show.

    Of course people dislike it for reasons that have nothing to do with diversity. You keep acting offended when the anti-diversity group gets called out though.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    And once the show aired, no one complained about a black dwarf or elf anymore, because the show was so bad you don't even care about that, and Desa was one of the best characters except for the last episode with her.
    If it happened in this very thread half way into the season you can guarentee it is still happening elsewhere on the internet. I'm not sure why you even feel the need to claim it hasn't happened or is not happening anymore. What is so hard about accepting that there is a group of people out there complaining about those things? It doesn't make your criticisms any less valid just because you also accept that the Show is right to call out that group.

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  3. #7543
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    So Tolkien didn't write LotR then? or is it that all the messages and idea written into the text and that he spoke about personally are actually all wrong or mean something else?
    Then the spirit of tolkien is Lord of the rings? you are implying he don't have any other books or stories? that have jackshit to do with different races friendship? lmao


    that's not something that happens in the Article were talking about they address actual criticism while pointing out that there are people who are against people finding common ground/friendship when it comes to the show's production.
    And that is a fucking lie, nobody complained about "different races finding common ground", a big fat lie, its straight up a strawman they did to attack, and you know it

    I mean you have to look no futher then this very thread to find post of people who hated the show before we saw any thing but posters and a teaser, to pretend people didn't hate it because of Diversity is far more dishonest then any thing the showrunners have said in that article.
    Before the show aired, nobody complained about this later, and using that as a shield is asinine

    Same thing happened with house of the dragon, there was race change, people complained before, but later didn't care because the show was good.

    This is a blatant lie we had the black elf's and dwarfs and how they shouldn't exist brought up almost every other episode in this thread.
    That is not true, at all.

    And commenting they should not be, in an attempt to say they would prefer more faithful is one thing, but nobody attacked the show because of it

    Thread had hundreds of comments after the show aired and you could count in your hand how many people complain about that, it was just the same people, you included, that like to spin the thread in that direction and derail it, like you are doing now.

    There was a time everyone was complaining about the show, and nobody saw the "same faces" we see on those subjects, but when one person slightly mention , the "same faces" wail on his ass, like people were surveying the topic waiting for the moment.

    People cannot defend the show because is garbage, so people wait until someone mention race, so they can attack, like you and Rhorle are doing now
    Last edited by Syegfryed; 2022-10-29 at 09:08 PM.

  4. #7544
    Merely a Setback Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Then the spirit of tolkien is Lord of the rings? you are implying he don't have any other books or stories? that have jackshit to do with different races friendship? lmao
    you really want to die on the hill of "Tolkien didn't care about people setting aside there differences and working together for a greater good", I really can't think of a worse hill to die on when it comes to Tolkien.


    And that is a fucking lie, nobody complained about "different races finding common ground", a big fat lie, its straight up a strawman they did to attack, and you know it
    Your absolutely right the complains weren't any where near that clean and were far more racist and sexist, the show runners really should have said what people were really saying mabye even post the racist memes of the black dwarf with a fried chicken.







    Before the show aired, nobody complained about this later, and using that as a shield is asinine

    Same thing happened with house of the dragon, there was race change, people complained before, but later didn't care because the show was good.

    That is not true, at all.

    And commenting they should not be, in an attempt to say they would prefer more faithful is one thing, but nobody attacked the show because of it

    Thread had hundreds of comments after the show aired and you could count in your hand how many people complain about that, it was just the same people, you included, that like to spin the thread in that direction and derail it, like you are doing now.

    There was a time everyone was complaining about the show, and nobody saw the "same faces" we see on those subjects, but when one person slightly mention , the "same faces" wail on his ass, like people were surveying the topic waiting for the moment.

    People cannot defend the show because is garbage, so people wait until someone mention race, so they can attack, like you and Rhorle are doing now
    Again just a blatant lie, your more dishonest then the showrunners on there worse day.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  5. #7545
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    People cannot defend the show because is garbage, so people wait until someone mention race, so they can attack, like you and Rhorle are doing now
    So why can't you say that the Show was right about some critics being patently evil because of racists attacks? It doesn't changing anything about problems with the show. The only one that keeps using it as a shield is you, and others, that have an all or nothing approach. As in you have to be against all things the show does.

    There is a reason why it doesn't get discussed much in this thread and that is it is a forbidden topic.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  6. #7546
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    you really want to die on the hill of "Tolkien didn't care about people setting aside there differences and working together for a greater good", I really can't think of a worse hill to die on when it comes to Tolkien.
    And you want to die on the fallacy that this alone was his spirit and not just one of his many stories? or, that if im saying its not his spirit that means he didn't care about? who said he didn't fucking care? stop making a strawman, You are doing exactly like the showrunners did, lmao

    Your absolutely right the complains weren't any where near that clean and were far more racist and sexist, the show runners really should have said what people were really saying mabye even post the racist memes of the black dwarf with a bucket of chicken.
    No, you said it wrong, im right, nobody complained about "races finding common ground in friendship", therefore, the showrunners were fucking lie and they did a strawman to shield the show.

    There is no reason for you to raise other point other than blatantly red herring, cause we already acknowledged and know those people existed, but again, this was not what the showrunners were talking in that bit and this was before the show aired, nobody seriously complained about this later, because the show is garbage and had many flaws and people praise the character of Diesa.
    Again just a blatant lie, your more dishonest then the showrunners on there worse day.
    Sure fam, see you again when this subject comes out

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    So why can't you say that the Show was right about some critics being patently evil because of racists attacks?
    Because that was not the point they made? he said people who don't like the idea of different races finding common ground, the spirit of tolkien, the people who think they are doing the good fight, are patently evil. If he said "people whoa re racist are patently evil" i would still disagree, because they are totally evil, but that was not their point.

    Again, after the show aired, it was so garbage, nobody gave two shits about it, of course there is one here and there and this is what they are using as shield. Pretending the majority of the complaints is about race

    But again, mods warned many times to drop this subject, so im not gonna drop this and recommend doing the same

  7. #7547
    Merely a Setback Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    And you want to die on the fallacy that this alone was his spirit and not just one of his many stories? or, that if im saying its not his spirit that means he didn't care about? who said he didn't fucking care? stop making a strawman, You are doing exactly like the showrunners did, lmao
    you are the only one making strawmen when you add things like that alone was his spirit when no one said he was limited to that one idea even though it was a large part of the man.

    You want so bad for other people to be dishonest when really your just projecting your own dishonesty onto every one else and lack the self awareness to see it.

    No, you said it wrong, im right, nobody complained about "races finding common ground in friendship", therefore, the showrunners were fucking lie and they did a strawman to shield the show.
    Yes I already agreed no one complained about "races finding common ground in friendship", they were far more racist/sexist then that and continued being so far past the shows airing.

    But hey lets pretend the show runners meant that exact wording and nothing else and we don't all know what they were actually talking about.
    Last edited by Lorgar Aurelian; 2022-10-29 at 09:44 PM.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  8. #7548
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    you are the only one making strawmen when you add things like that alone was his spirit when no one said he was limited to that one idea even though it was a large part of the man.
    You straight up said "i was going to die on the hill saying he didn't care about it" 100% a strawman since i never said that, and YOU are saying im doing fallacies, ayyyyyy lmao.

    You want so bad for other people to be dishonest when really your just projecting your own dishonesty onto every one else and lack the self awareness to see it
    .

    It didn't take long for you pull out an ad hominem right?

    But hey lets pretend the show runners meant that exact wording and nothing else and we don't all know what they were actually talking about.
    So you are telling me there is a hidden message in the very same interview... They didn't want to say what they are saying, Just like the show is a 8hour allegory...amazing

  9. #7549
    Warning: End this derail about race and casting right now. It has always been offtopic for this thread and subforum. All of you know better.

  10. #7550
    Merely a Setback Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    You straight up said "i was going to die on the hill saying he didn't care about it" 100% a strawman since i never said that, and YOU are saying im doing fallacies, ayyyyyy lmao.
    You must be aware that the post that was in reply to you said "you are implying he don't have any other books or stories?" right? something no one said or even hinted to and you brought up to attack out of no where? your looking for fallacies every where while ignoring that your the one using them first.

    .

    It didn't take long for you pull out an ad hominem right?
    You call it an ad hominem I call it obvious observations.



    So you are telling me there is a hidden message in the very same interview... They didn't want to say what they are saying, Just like the show is a 8hour allegory...amazing
    If by hidden message you mean they didn't want to say some fans were calling the cast N****r's and making racism memes about them sure.

    though they must be really bad at hiding the messages as every one knows what they mean even if you want to pretend like we don't.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  11. #7551
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Right. Resigning before something is announced doesn't mean he resigned before it was signed. The estate was already changing direction before he resigned which is why they were shopping rights. Could Christopher have been forced out? Sure. We don't know that and you haven't shown anything to be wrong. All you've posted is the opinion of the writer of those articles.
    I gave you the dates that he resigned and the other articles state the same thing. He resigned in August not 2 days before the announcement of Amazon buying the rights. That was where you are wrong.

  12. #7552
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InfiniteCharger View Post
    I gave you the dates that he resigned and the other articles state the same thing. He resigned in August not 2 days before the announcement of Amazon buying the rights. That was where you are wrong.
    Again, I never said he resigned around the Amazon announcement. I said it was announced or made public around that time. Hence why the article you linked to has a November date rather than an August date. Did you look at the date of the article you linked? It even has a November date in the link.

    https://www.theonering.net/torwp/201...olkien-estate/
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  13. #7553
    The show failed for me for many reasons, but the primary reason was the fuck awful writers, who shouldn't be allowed to do anything more creative in life than stocking shelves. This was some shit tier writing, with some terrible characters/dialogue/plot. Not even going into the bastardization of Tolkien's lore. How you could fuck this up is proof that it is always possible for people to find a way to disappoint you.
    Last edited by bledgor; 2022-10-30 at 02:25 AM.
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  14. #7554
    Quote Originally Posted by OwenBurton View Post
    Thank you, my friends, for your input. I don't get why so many people still think this new show was spectacular or groundbreakingly awesome, honestly. It had some interesting characters and points, but nothing that is above average for me at least. I mean, those of you who liked the show...what exactly about it that was so inspiring or engaging?

    That being said, I do think the last episode was one of the better ones, and I actually somewhat enjoyed it, at least the Gandalf part. He reminded me of the old Gandalf, protecting the innocent and being a hero, banishing the darkness of our world by defending the weak. Everything else was...I don't know...I'm not sure what my general feelings are. I don't want to dismiss their efforts entirely, but the show's flaws should also not be glossed over.
    i ended up rating it a higher 4, the way i rate tv shows 6 is higher average, five lower end of average.

    i think the penultimate episode summed it up for me (the battle of the village) it was fantastic for 45 minutes and then they started talking and having a celebration after theyve all just been in a gruesome battle and held captive whilst their friends are being murdered in front of them and galadriel survives a volcanic blast. so the episode was beautiful but the story lacking, im also not sure thats how volcanoes work??

    i did like the dark elfs plan coming off and i didnt see it coming though.

    in the last 15 minutes the episode went from an 8 to a 6 and that was the strongest episode for me.

    it feels like i have an agenda but you can just read chapter 4 of a book called the crippled god by Steven Erikson with no context except that they have just been in a grueling battle and see the difference. like i say i am biased here though, the series is the best ever written imho.

    suppose id sum the series up as skin deep fun

    sorry for all the spelling and grammar, my keyboard needs charging, this was difficult to type

  15. #7555
    Quote Originally Posted by molliewoof View Post
    i ended up rating it a higher 4, the way i rate tv shows 6 is higher average, five lower end of average.

    i think the penultimate episode summed it up for me (the battle of the village) it was fantastic for 45 minutes and then they started talking and having a celebration after theyve all just been in a gruesome battle and held captive whilst their friends are being murdered in front of them and galadriel survives a volcanic blast. so the episode was beautiful but the story lacking, im also not sure thats how volcanoes work??

    i did like the dark elfs plan coming off and i didnt see it coming though.

    in the last 15 minutes the episode went from an 8 to a 6 and that was the strongest episode for me.

    it feels like i have an agenda but you can just read chapter 4 of a book called the crippled god by Steven Erikson with no context except that they have just been in a grueling battle and see the difference. like i say i am biased here though, the series is the best ever written imho.

    suppose id sum the series up as skin deep fun

    sorry for all the spelling and grammar, my keyboard needs charging, this was difficult to type
    Fun fact; this is very much how a vulcanic eruption CAN occur, though a sudden influx of water is in most “traditional” vulcanos quite rare, with underwater vulcanos its very common.

  16. #7556
    Quote Originally Posted by molliewoof View Post
    so the episode was beautiful but the story lacking, im also not sure thats how volcanoes work??
    https://theconversation.com/one-does...episode-192328

    And even pouring water onto a lava lake surface would produce a lot of steam, but not necessarily strong explosive eruptions because the water will cause a cooled solid crust to form on the lava surface.

    The only substantial hydrovolcanic explosive eruptions have occurred where significant volumes of magma have erupted rapidly up through a body of water such as groundwater, a lake or ocean, and vigorously mixed with it triggering explosive interaction


    So yeah, it can happen, though it has to be the other way around than what show did, but that's just nitpicking really. And it can happen with water pouring into the magma, but it has to be, as they put it, vigorously mixed.

    Water on magma will just create steam that rises... magma on water will create steam that carries said magma with it as it rises.
    Error 404 - Signature not found

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  18. #7558
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    I don't care about scientific explanations in a fantasy universe. Tolkien's explanation was "Morgoth created Mount Doom" (Morgoth was the bigger baddie before Sauron and the most powerful being in the universe). That's fine. To me it's a huge problem that the writers are like, "But we need to explain it with science!"

    It'd be like if Peter Jackson decided that he had to show how Saruman was powering all his engines, and you got to see him playing with a nuclear reactor or something. It's completely silly and immersion breaking. It's like the midichlorians in Star Wars.
    Criticism on this show is simultaneously that they give explanations that make real world sense and that they have unrealistic things.

    How is “a sword key opens a dam kilometers away, flooding a cavernous vulcano causing an eruption” not a fantasy thing.

    Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

  19. #7559
    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    finally spoke to some normie about this show (someone who i think read the hobbit but only watched the lotr movies and doesnt know what the Silmarillion is). And they said it was really good. This is who the show is for, someone i would describe as absolutely not online at all.

    I thought it was better than house of the dragon but worse than wheel of time.
    Its interesting because I've read all the LOTR books and I love the show. I will say I think The Silmarillion is trash and in my opinion Christopher Tolkien needed some cash so clumped his dad's notes together and called it a book. So my thoughts are a little skewed from the die hard Tolkien fan.

  20. #7560
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    I serious can't believe people actually like that battle episode, it was so bad that remembered me the twilight movie with he final x-men confront. They tried to hard to pull out a helm's deep but i was shallow as a cup of water.

    Like, it all's keep hammering to my head, how this is fucking awfully convenient, this break the immersion of the plot, they soon to happen to know there is supposed to be a war in the southlands and they arrive a the right moment in the right place to just save half a village from a dozen of vampire orcs. And tt was rly like it was just a dozen of people doing the fighting.

    Not only that, the villages actually hold their ground for a while, the ones with no formal training and bad body conditions who would not stand an orc strength. Who btw, should have good nightvision, so there was no need of torches.

    They also made that stupid rope tower move and abandoned a fortified position to fight in a shit village saying now they have the advantage?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

    Lots of time the orcs were attacking the protagonists were not using weapons or doing something dumb for the sake of plot armor, a big orc just tossed Arondir or whatever is his name, instead of just killing it, then when he is about to do, he gets killed by deus ex machina.

    This all comes down to the awful choreography, there was one scene when Arondir slaps one orc to get hold of him, so the other orc could pull him with a rope, he also falls, they wait him to get up to attack. Arondir girl gets two shots but you only see one arrow.

    No fucking stakes were given, everyone was going to live anyway, there was like 3 to 4 shots i remember how they went "uuuuh be anxious cause they might die!!" no, they would not, stop trying.

    Numenorians? awful, with their printed shirts tht are not even fully printed

    And it all leads to they getting pompeia in the fucking face and not dying

    That was by far the worst or the second worst episode.
    Last edited by Syegfryed; 2022-10-30 at 11:35 PM.

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