Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[Nask]

FEMALE dwarf, who is naturally black, a biological IMPOSSIBILITY.

If you are going to go for this "biological impossibility" angle you'd have to count out a lot of stuff in Silmarillion, LOTR, hobbit. What you wanted to say is "only things I DEEM PROPER" can be in. I don't remember anything about dwarves not being able to born with dark skin, you know, in a fantasy world where some humans live many times the normal lifespan, where elfs are a thing, god is thing, magic, ghosts, and so on.

[Sluvs]

Serious question here what do you think is the racial makeup of the US and without Google what minority group has the largest population.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I'm not really interested in discussing racism here. It just never goes well for anyone involved. Not to mention I'm not from the US.

The poster said that he never heard a valid reason, I just gave them a reason that while people might disagree with, makes sense.

[bledgor]

Lots of old sci-fi and fantasy just waiting...

Or if they feel the need to do a reboot, reboot The Dresden Files, the first go around was rough to say the least(though with current reboots/adaptations I have no faith it will be good). Honestly surprised we haven't gotten a battletech/mechwarriors show of some kind, live action or animated either. The Saga of the Noble Dead series by Barb and J.C. Hendee is another that could be fun, not many named characters either to worry about.

The buzzcuts a bit weird yea… the lack of female beard is very defensible ino though… it’s one of those things that works on the page, but not on screen. The character would lose all charisma.

Strong disagree, you can be Charismatic as fuck no matter how you look, check out James Spader in the blacklist, one of the most charismatic performances I have seen and he isn't exactly someone people consider attractive. Not to mention these are supposed to be dwarves, with their own ideals of beauty, I think it is 100% fine and could easily work on screen.

[Xath]

Don't take this the wrong way, but I'm not really interested in discussing racism here. It just never goes well for anyone involved. Not to mention I'm not from the US.

The poster said that he never heard a valid reason, I just gave them a reason that while people might disagree with, makes sense.

No I'm asking this for a legitimate reason that you aren't from the US actually makes you more likely to show what I'm getting so please answer the question. Without googling it just based off movies TV etc

[Sluvs]

No I'm asking this for a legitimate reason that you aren't from the US actually makes you more likely to show what I'm getting so please answer the question. Without googling it just based off movies TV etc

Ok...

Without googling:
I believe 20% african americans
Around 60% Caucasian
Around 15% asian americans
The rest a mix of other ethnicities

Googling:
57% caucasian
18% hispanic (completely forgot them, shame on me I suppose)
12% African American
6% Asian american
and them the rest.

Not as far off as I thought to be honest. Although i did forget the hispanic population, which was my bad.

[rogoth]

If you are going to go for this "biological impossibility" angle you'd have to count out a lot of stuff in Silmarillion, LOTR, hobbit. What you wanted to say is "only things I DEEM PROPER" can be in. I don't remember anything about dwarves not being able to born with dark skin, you know, in a fantasy world where some humans live many times the normal lifespan, where elfs are a thing, god is thing, magic, ghosts, and so on.

your comment tells me that your knowledge of the topic doesn't extend past what the peter jackson trilogy presented, furthermore, you clearly have ZERO FUCKING KNOWLDGE regarding how biology and genetic selection works AT ALL, otherwise you wouldn't have said such a stupid thing.

never once has anybody said that dwarves couldn't be born with slightly darker coloured skin, but to be a natural black colour as represented in this promotional material is a biological impossibility period, end of story, regardless of whether the setting is a fantasy world or not, (of which the rules of this world are VERY CLEARLY DEFINED by the original author in his myriad works of the source material describing in great detail how EVERY RACE of his world looked, acted and behaved), you don't just magically have a pure black child pop up from a pure white bloodline, it might have been possible if a dwarf and black human from the Harad region of middle earth had cross bred and that genetic pool had survived, but there's never been an inter species partnership of dwarves at any point in the history of middle earth, so again, it's an IMPOSSIBILITY, i'm genuinely wondering how people can't get this through their heads.

if you would be so kind, please state, in explicit detail where it's written in any the works of Tolkein, that black dwarves and elves exist, please show me the passage or sentence in any of the works that explains how these beings came to be in this form, i'm happy to wait until you have found the source of this information, because in all the times i have read these books, i have never once come across such writings, so either i skipped it, or it simply doesn't exist.

[Varodoc]

This show is dead if they butcher Annatar (aka Sauron).

Literally just copy his appearance from the videogame PLEASE, it's perfect:

[Nurasu]

your comment tells me that your knowledge of the topic doesn't extend past what the peter jackson trilogy presented, furthermore, you clearly have ZERO FUCKING KNOWLDGE regarding how biology and genetic selection works AT ALL, otherwise you wouldn't have said such a stupid thing.

never once has anybody said that dwarves couldn't be born with slightly darker coloured skin, but to be a natural black colour as represented in this promotional material is a biological impossibility period, end of story, regardless of whether the setting is a fantasy world or not, (of which the rules of this world are VERY CLEARLY DEFINED by the original author in his myriad works of the source material describing in great detail how EVERY RACE of his world looked, acted and behaved), you don't just magically have a pure black child pop up from a pure white bloodline, it might have been possible if a dwarf and black human from the Harad region of middle earth had cross bred and that genetic pool had survived, but there's never been an inter species partnership of dwarves at any point in the history of middle earth, so again, it's an IMPOSSIBILITY, i'm genuinely wondering how people can't get this through their heads.

if you would be so kind, please state, in explicit detail where it's written in any the works of Tolkein, that black dwarves and elves exist, please show me the passage or sentence in any of the works that explains how these beings came to be in this form, i'm happy to wait until you have found the source of this information, because in all the times i have read these books, i have never once come across such writings, so either i skipped it, or it simply doesn't exist.

Tolkien actually never mentioned Dwarven skin color, so they theoretically could all be black. Maybe they should have gone with that angle. The fact of the matter is that they could be rainbow hued, mixed, mottled, or whatever else according to the source material. And I highly doubt they will have just this one black dwarf; there will be background dwarves that are black.

Just to expound on this further, if you would be so kind, please state, in explicit detail, how Men of the same lineage have different skin tones? Numenoreans were described as being both fair and swarthy, same with the descendants of Beor - that should be physically impossible right? If anything, Jackson whitewashed the original trilogy so badly that it stands out more now.

[Nask]

your comment tells me that your knowledge of the topic doesn't extend past what the peter jackson trilogy presented, furthermore, you clearly have ZERO FUCKING KNOWLDGE regarding how biology and genetic selection works AT ALL, otherwise you wouldn't have said such a stupid thing.

never once has anybody said that dwarves couldn't be born with slightly darker coloured skin, but to be a natural black colour as represented in this promotional material is a biological impossibility period, end of story, regardless of whether the setting is a fantasy world or not, (of which the rules of this world are VERY CLEARLY DEFINED by the original author in his myriad works of the source material describing in great detail how EVERY RACE of his world looked, acted and behaved), you don't just magically have a pure black child pop up from a pure white bloodline, it might have been possible if a dwarf and black human from the Harad region of middle earth had cross bred and that genetic pool had survived, but there's never been an inter species partnership of dwarves at any point in the history of middle earth, so again, it's an IMPOSSIBILITY, i'm genuinely wondering how people can't get this through their heads.

if you would be so kind, please state, in explicit detail where it's written in any the works of Tolkein, that black dwarves and elves exist, please show me the passage or sentence in any of the works that explains how these beings came to be in this form, i'm happy to wait until you have found the source of this information, because in all the times i have read these books, i have never once come across such writings, so either i skipped it, or it simply doesn't exist.

Ok no, I am not going to continue this. you are actually unhinged internet nerd throwing a massive tantrum. Thanks for the entertainment. "It isn't specifically said so it can't be true" lol. How do you function in life? If something isn't written for you, do you just stop working and thinking?

[OokOok]

I love how these arguments always start and end, it always starts with a fan who cares about the source material and lore stating facts and some woke liberal tard muffin saying some stupid shit like "just because we've never seen a full on black dwarf before, who clearly would need to have 2 black parents to generically look like that skin color and that means their parents and their parents and we'd need to see like an entire other kingdom of dwarves who are strictly black for this to even be possible! doesn't mean black dwarves dont exist!!"

Then the lore nerd once more comes back with facts explaining why it's not possible within the realm of logic and lore

Then the liberal woke tard muffins always..ALWAYS fires back with the usual and typical "WHO CARES ITS JUST A FANTASY WORLD ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE!!!!!!"

lawl
At the end of the day, staying true to the source material is all that matters. Personally, i'd find it rather insulting that the only way a show/company adds people of color to a show is by turning already created white characters into black ones.

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Tolkien actually never mentioned Dwarven skin color, so they theoretically could all be black. Maybe they should have gone with that angle. The fact of the matter is that they could be rainbow hued, mixed, mottled, or whatever else according to the source material. And I highly doubt they will have just this one black dwarf; there will be background dwarves that are black.

Just to expound on this further, if you would be so kind, please state, in explicit detail, how Men of the same lineage have different skin tones? Numenoreans were described as being both fair and swarthy, same with the descendants of Beor - that should be physically impossible right? If anything, Jackson whitewashed the original trilogy so badly that it stands out more now.

Yes maybe they should of gone with the angle that a race that lives in mountains and mines and rarely sees the sun...........should be black.

[Nurasu]

I love how these arguments always start and end, it always starts with a fan who cares about the source material and lore stating facts and some woke liberal tard muffin saying some stupid shit like "just because we've never seen a full on black dwarf before, who clearly would need to have 2 black parents to generically look like that skin color and that means their parents and their parents and we'd need to see like an entire other kingdom of dwarves who are strictly black for this to even be possible! doesn't mean black dwarves dont exist!!"

Then the lore nerd once more comes back with facts explaining why it's not possible within the realm of logic and lore

Then the liberal woke tard muffins always..ALWAYS fires back with the usual and typical "WHO CARES ITS JUST A FANTASY WORLD ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE!!!!!!"

lawl
At the end of the day, staying true to the source material is all that matters. Personally, i'd find it rather insulting that the only way a show/company adds people of color to a show is by turning already created white characters into black ones.

As I stated two posts up, your "lore nerds" don't even apparently know the lore. Tolkien invented black Men seemingly out of genetic thin air.

[Triceron]

You make the mistake of thinking I think I'm well-versed in fantasy literature. I'm only as well-versed as someone who's only exposure to music is the radio's billboard top 100. My fantasy knowledge is only as deep as the ultra-popular things that ever make it to big-time. I had no idea what the fuck game of thrones was until it had a major screen adaptation.

I only know lord of the rings and got into it (reading the silmarillion) because the movies came out during my childhood and were super popular.

I just find it odd that you go out of your way to question whether a fandom even exists when you admit that you never heard of Game of Thrones while admitting not having a deep knowledge of the popularity of fantasy outside of the 'ultra popular'. Well, you do acknowledge that fandoms exists beyond the ultra-popular right? So no need to question it.

[Nurasu]

Yes maybe they should of gone with the angle that a race that lives in mountains and mines and rarely sees the sun...........should be black.

It's weird how Central Americans aren't as dark as Africans isn't it? Because the sun doesn't shine on them (at the same equatorial level even) quite as brightly, I suppose. You don't even understand real world genetics and are going to argue about them in a fantasy world whose author is already a little dubious on the details of that functionality.

[Veggie50]

Or if they feel the need to do a reboot, reboot The Dresden Files, the first go around was rough to say the least(though with current reboots/adaptations I have no faith it will be good). Honestly surprised we haven't gotten a battletech/mechwarriors show of some kind, live action or animated either. The Saga of the Noble Dead series by Barb and J.C. Hendee is another that could be fun, not many named characters either to worry about.



Strong disagree, you can be Charismatic as fuck no matter how you look, check out James Spader in the blacklist, one of the most charismatic performances I have seen and he isn't exactly someone people consider attractive. Not to mention these are supposed to be dwarves, with their own ideals of beauty, I think it is 100% fine and could easily work on screen.

It’s not about attractiveness though, it’s about being taken seriously. James Spader is a good example here. Do you believe he would be able to deliver the same charismatic performance wearing a dress? It’s something that distracts from the actual acting.

[BeepBoo]

I just find it odd that you go out of your way to question whether a fandom even exists when you admit that you never heard of Game of Thrones while admitting not having a deep knowledge of the popularity of fantasy outside of the 'ultra popular'. Well, you do acknowledge that fandoms exists beyond the ultra-popular right? So no need to question it.

Obviously any and every book has at least some amount of fandom... But if you expect to hear public outcry about something like the social injustice of mis-casting something for every one of those fandoms... you're gonna be disappointed. My point is: something actually has to be popular enough for enough people to even KNOW a slight has been committed and thus get outraged by it.

[bledgor]

It’s not about attractiveness though, it’s about being taken seriously. James Spader is a good example here. Do you believe he would be able to deliver the same charismatic performance wearing a dress? It’s something that distracts from the actual acting.

Honestly, yes, but to be fair he is probably one of the most charismatic people I have ever watched. This is also ignoring the fact I think a skilled actress could pull of a bearded lady look just fine, especially if it is a quality that viewers would/should be expecting. Why are you so sure it wouldn't work, sounds like a you problem.

[rogoth]

Tolkien actually never mentioned Dwarven skin color, so they theoretically could all be black. Maybe they should have gone with that angle. The fact of the matter is that they could be rainbow hued, mixed, mottled, or whatever else according to the source material. And I highly doubt they will have just this one black dwarf; there will be background dwarves that are black.

Just to expound on this further, if you would be so kind, please state, in explicit detail, how Men of the same lineage have different skin tones? Numenoreans were described as being both fair and swarthy, same with the descendants of Beor - that should be physically impossible right? If anything, Jackson whitewashed the original trilogy so badly that it stands out more now.

let me just see if i understand your point here, you're saying that people who live in a very temperate climate, who were born of white progenitors shouldn't be white?, does that about sum it up?, and then to extrapolate from that are you saying that those who exist in other climates where it's more likely that they developed a natural tolerance to that climate over generations as seen in the peoples of the far south/south east of middle earth shouldn't be black? are you telling me that every time you see a 'white' person in the street what you see through your eyes is a 'black' person, and then when you see a 'black' person in the street your eyes distinguish them as 'white' in colour?, is that what your getting at here, because that's what you're insinuating.

as to your other asinine comment, are you asking me to ignore evolution and to state that no matter how much time passes a 20th generation child should look and act exactly the same as their progenitors? what kind of dumbass arguement is that? very obviously the initial bloodline and the first few generations would share almost identical features and traits, after a time depending on environment those features and traits would slowly change to adapt to their environments, if you want a comprehensive explanation i recommend reading the works of charles darwin, because i'm genuinely unsure what you're trying to get at here other than making an asinine arguement that makes no sense and has no context.

[Triceron]

never once has anybody said that dwarves couldn't be born with slightly darker coloured skin, but to be a natural black colour as represented in this promotional material is a biological impossibility period, end of story, regardless of whether the setting is a fantasy world or not, (of which the rules of this world are VERY CLEARLY DEFINED by the original author in his myriad works of the source material describing in great detail how EVERY RACE of his world looked, acted and behaved), you don't just magically have a pure black child pop up from a pure white bloodline

Consider that evolution shouldn't even be a thing in the LOTR universe. Humans are creations of Illuvatar, just like the Elves. They are magically created into being. So your argument is basically we can have magic create X, but not Y, because of a bloodline that is also rooted in being magically created.

I get the common reasoning you're trying to apply here, but your argument is quite nonsensical when we're talking about a fictional fantasy world with magical creations. That Tolkien defined the world without descriptions of Black Elves is one thing, to argue that they shouldn't exist because 'it doesn't magically happen' is another altogether. You can't really make that claim in a universe that is literally created by magic. Even the author did not put in rules to say 'No, that can't happen'. It was just never documented to have happened.

Just like there was never a documented case of a Dwarf falling in love with an Elf, but could still exist in the universe. It just wouldn't be canonical to the original stories.

[rogoth]

It's weird how Central Americans aren't as dark as Africans isn't it? Because the sun doesn't shine on them (at the same equatorial level even) quite as brightly, I suppose. You don't even understand real world genetics and are going to argue about them in a fantasy world whose author is already a little dubious on the details of that functionality.

yet again with your disingenuous and moronic comments that have no basis in fact, nor do you even acknowledge nuance and other things that have an effect on such things, furthermore, there are PLENTY of people in middle/southern America who are darker skinned than those across the ocean in Africa, stop being such an asshat and trying to cherry pick something to make it seem like you're right and the person you quoted is wrong.

[Nurasu]

let me just see if i understand your point here, you're saying that people who live in a very temperate climate, who were born of white progenitors shouldn't be white?, does that about sum it up?, and then to extrapolate from that are you saying that those who exist in other climates where it's more likely that they developed a natural tolerance to that climate over generations as seen in the peoples of the far south/south east of middle earth shouldn't be black?

I'm saying that's what Tolkien decided for his own universe. A random smattering of black people.

are you telling me that every time you see a 'white' person in the street what you see through your eyes is a 'black' person, and then when you see a 'black' person in the street your eyes distinguish them as 'white' in colour?, is that what your getting at here, because that's what you're insinuating.

no idea what this drivel even means.

as to your other asinine comment, are you asking me to ignore evolution and to state that no matter how much time passes a 20th generation child should look and act exactly the same as their progenitors? what kind of dumbass arguement is that? very obviously the initial bloodline and the first few generations would share almost identical features and traits, after a time depending on environment those features and traits would slowly change to adapt to their environments, if you want a comprehensive explanation i recommend reading the works of charles darwin, because i'm genuinely unsure what you're trying to get at here other than making an asinine arguement that makes no sense and has no context.

Sounds like we're in perfect agreement here though - Tolkien left the door wide open for black Dwarves and Elves, but especially Dwarves.

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yet again with your disingenuous and moronic comments that have no basis in fact, nor do you even acknowledge nuance and other things that have an effect on such things, furthermore, there are PLENTY of people in middle/southern America who are darker skinned than those across the ocean in Africa, stop being such an asshat and trying to cherry pick something to make it seem like you're right and the person you quoted is wrong.

According to him, if they receive the same amount of sun they should be the same color, no? Sunlight is the only factor in determining one's genetic make up. /s