1. #7581
    Quote Originally Posted by molliewoof View Post
    i ended up rating it a higher 4, the way i rate tv shows 6 is higher average, five lower end of average.

    i think the penultimate episode summed it up for me (the battle of the village) it was fantastic for 45 minutes and then they started talking and having a celebration after theyve all just been in a gruesome battle and held captive whilst their friends are being murdered in front of them and galadriel survives a volcanic blast. so the episode was beautiful but the story lacking, im also not sure thats how volcanoes work??

    i did like the dark elfs plan coming off and i didnt see it coming though.

    in the last 15 minutes the episode went from an 8 to a 6 and that was the strongest episode for me.

    it feels like i have an agenda but you can just read chapter 4 of a book called the crippled god by Steven Erikson with no context except that they have just been in a grueling battle and see the difference. like i say i am biased here though, the series is the best ever written imho.

    suppose id sum the series up as skin deep fun

    sorry for all the spelling and grammar, my keyboard needs charging, this was difficult to type
    Fun fact; this is very much how a vulcanic eruption CAN occur, though a sudden influx of water is in most “traditional” vulcanos quite rare, with underwater vulcanos its very common.

  2. #7582
    Quote Originally Posted by molliewoof View Post
    so the episode was beautiful but the story lacking, im also not sure thats how volcanoes work??
    https://theconversation.com/one-does...episode-192328

    And even pouring water onto a lava lake surface would produce a lot of steam, but not necessarily strong explosive eruptions because the water will cause a cooled solid crust to form on the lava surface.

    The only substantial hydrovolcanic explosive eruptions have occurred where significant volumes of magma have erupted rapidly up through a body of water such as groundwater, a lake or ocean, and vigorously mixed with it triggering explosive interaction


    So yeah, it can happen, though it has to be the other way around than what show did, but that's just nitpicking really. And it can happen with water pouring into the magma, but it has to be, as they put it, vigorously mixed.

    Water on magma will just create steam that rises... magma on water will create steam that carries said magma with it as it rises.
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  3. #7583
    Quote Originally Posted by Veggie50 View Post
    Fun fact; this is very much how a vulcanic eruption CAN occur, though a sudden influx of water is in most “traditional” vulcanos quite rare, with underwater vulcanos its very common.
    I don't care about scientific explanations in a fantasy universe. Tolkien's explanation was "Morgoth created Mount Doom" (Morgoth was the bigger baddie before Sauron and the most powerful being in the universe). That's fine. To me it's a huge problem that the writers are like, "But we need to explain it with science!"

    It'd be like if Peter Jackson decided that he had to show how Saruman was powering all his engines, and you got to see him playing with a nuclear reactor or something. It's completely silly and immersion breaking. It's like the midichlorians in Star Wars.

  4. #7584

  5. #7585
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    I don't care about scientific explanations in a fantasy universe. Tolkien's explanation was "Morgoth created Mount Doom" (Morgoth was the bigger baddie before Sauron and the most powerful being in the universe). That's fine. To me it's a huge problem that the writers are like, "But we need to explain it with science!"

    It'd be like if Peter Jackson decided that he had to show how Saruman was powering all his engines, and you got to see him playing with a nuclear reactor or something. It's completely silly and immersion breaking. It's like the midichlorians in Star Wars.
    Criticism on this show is simultaneously that they give explanations that make real world sense and that they have unrealistic things.

    How is “a sword key opens a dam kilometers away, flooding a cavernous vulcano causing an eruption” not a fantasy thing.

    Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

  6. #7586
    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    finally spoke to some normie about this show (someone who i think read the hobbit but only watched the lotr movies and doesnt know what the Silmarillion is). And they said it was really good. This is who the show is for, someone i would describe as absolutely not online at all.

    I thought it was better than house of the dragon but worse than wheel of time.
    Its interesting because I've read all the LOTR books and I love the show. I will say I think The Silmarillion is trash and in my opinion Christopher Tolkien needed some cash so clumped his dad's notes together and called it a book. So my thoughts are a little skewed from the die hard Tolkien fan.

  7. #7587
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    I serious can't believe people actually like that battle episode, it was so bad that remembered me the twilight movie with he final x-men confront. They tried to hard to pull out a helm's deep but i was shallow as a cup of water.

    Like, it all's keep hammering to my head, how this is fucking awfully convenient, this break the immersion of the plot, they soon to happen to know there is supposed to be a war in the southlands and they arrive a the right moment in the right place to just save half a village from a dozen of vampire orcs. And tt was rly like it was just a dozen of people doing the fighting.

    Not only that, the villages actually hold their ground for a while, the ones with no formal training and bad body conditions who would not stand an orc strength. Who btw, should have good nightvision, so there was no need of torches.

    They also made that stupid rope tower move and abandoned a fortified position to fight in a shit village saying now they have the advantage?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

    Lots of time the orcs were attacking the protagonists were not using weapons or doing something dumb for the sake of plot armor, a big orc just tossed Arondir or whatever is his name, instead of just killing it, then when he is about to do, he gets killed by deus ex machina.

    This all comes down to the awful choreography, there was one scene when Arondir slaps one orc to get hold of him, so the other orc could pull him with a rope, he also falls, they wait him to get up to attack. Arondir girl gets two shots but you only see one arrow.

    No fucking stakes were given, everyone was going to live anyway, there was like 3 to 4 shots i remember how they went "uuuuh be anxious cause they might die!!" no, they would not, stop trying.

    Numenorians? awful, with their printed shirts tht are not even fully printed

    And it all leads to they getting pompeia in the fucking face and not dying

    That was by far the worst or the second worst episode.
    Last edited by Syegfryed; 2022-10-30 at 11:35 PM.

  8. #7588
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    Tolkien's explanation was "Morgoth created Mount Doom" (Morgoth was the bigger baddie before Sauron and the most powerful being in the universe). That's fine. To me it's a huge problem that the writers are like, "But we need to explain it with science!"
    Causing it to erupt is not the same as creating it. The volcano was already there, (presumably) created by Morgoth when he and the other Valar were forming the world in the first place.

  9. #7589
    Pit Lord rogoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    The show failed for me for many reasons, but the primary reason was the fuck awful writers, who shouldn't be allowed to do anything more creative in life than stocking shelves. This was some shit tier writing, with some terrible characters/dialogue/plot. Not even going into the bastardization of Tolkien's lore. How you could fuck this up is proof that it is always possible for people to find a way to disappoint you.
    i mean anyone with an ounce of common sense could have seen this coming a mile away, a duo who have for a decade or more had their ideas and scripts turned down by EVERYONE in hollywood, a duo who's only claim to fame is that they are acolytes to jj abrams (not a compliment), and their only 'legitimate' writing credit was an 'uncredited' role on the writing team behind a reboot of star trek: into darkness movie (again not a compliment), so anybody who expected this to be anything less than a dumpster fire was being delusional.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    Causing it to erupt is not the same as creating it. The volcano was already there, (presumably) created by Morgoth when he and the other Valar were forming the world in the first place.
    that's all well and good, but that's not how volcano's work, so even trying to force it to erupt they fucked it up, regardless of why the volcano exists in the first place, and the fact that the show did NOTHING at all to explain ANY of the meaningful exposition properly, instead they focused exclusively on the needless exposition and terrible writing in general turning what could and should have been an easy win into the biggest adaptation disaster to ever be produced, in years to come it will be used in teaching as how NOT to do something like this, and that's a pretty big accomplishment all things considered.

  10. #7590
    Quote Originally Posted by Veggie50 View Post
    Criticism on this show is simultaneously that they give explanations that make real world sense and that they have unrealistic things.

    How is “a sword key opens a dam kilometers away, flooding a cavernous vulcano causing an eruption” not a fantasy thing.

    Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
    I’m not criticizing the sword key thing personally. But I think criticism like that comes from people who are already fed up with the show by the time it gets to that point.

    Once your immersion is broken, there are things that annoy you that you would have ignored in a show you were enjoying (like the dead army in RotK - that was kinda silly but we mostly let it go cause we were having fun).

    My immersion was very dramatically, and probably irrevocably, broken by the sequence where Gil-Galad the asshole “rewards” Galadriel by sending her to Valinor, then she swims to the random boat that takes her to Numenor. Anyone familiar with the story knows that is a ludicrous plot line.

  11. #7591
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    that's all well and good, but that's not how volcano's work

    Are you sure about that?

    https://volcano.oregonstate.edu/hydrovolcanism
    https://source.wustl.edu/2019/07/wat...an-we-thought/
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  12. #7592
    Quote Originally Posted by Jotaux View Post
    Its interesting because I've read all the LOTR books and I love the show. I will say I think The Silmarillion is trash and in my opinion Christopher Tolkien needed some cash so clumped his dad's notes together and called it a book. So my thoughts are a little skewed from the die hard Tolkien fan.
    I had the same feeling. I wasn't charitable in the slightest to the show and had doubts on Amazon's ability after the butchering of wheel of time.

    I expected the trainwreck I got but I have to admit some small part of me was really hoping to be surprised. Hopefully they get the next iteration of the movies right in the 20 year cycle things get recycled in these days.

  13. #7593
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    i mean anyone with an ounce of common sense could have seen this coming a mile away, a duo who have for a decade or more had their ideas and scripts turned down by EVERYONE in hollywood, a duo who's only claim to fame is that they are acolytes to jj abrams (not a compliment), and their only 'legitimate' writing credit was an 'uncredited' role on the writing team behind a reboot of star trek: into darkness movie (again not a compliment), so anybody who expected this to be anything less than a dumpster fire was being delusional.
    According to this list they had writers with experience from the Sopranos, breaking bad, better call Saul, stranger things, starwars resistance, toy story4 among other shows, seems like a pretty good range of experience.

    https://m.imdb.com/title/tt7631058/fullcredits/writer
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  14. #7594
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    According to this list they had writers with experience from the Sopranos, breaking bad, better call Saul, stranger things, starwars resistance, toy story4 among other shows, seems like a pretty good range of experience.

    https://m.imdb.com/title/tt7631058/fullcredits/writer
    wow if that's the experience the writers had and the show was still as bad as it was, then something went very wrong. Probably an upper management decision.
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  15. #7595
    Quote Originally Posted by Orby View Post
    wow if that's the experience the writers had and the show was still as bad as it was, then something went very wrong. Probably an upper management decision.
    McKay and Payne are the ones making the stories and how things should play out. Writers of specific episodes are taking their writing and write what they want to happen into a script.
    They are given the plot points and major interactions.
    Then McKay and Payne and maybe even Webber have the last say in reviews of the episodes.

    Nothing comes to screen without their involvement.

    It's like being a graphic designer having to design a shit logo because the client wants it a certain way.
    Then trying to use the artists reputation as to say, well they are good so this logo must've been good, is just disingenuous.

    Being a good writer you might be able to salvage things, but if the basic plot is garbage not much can be done. Especially if the client is also set in stone on how it's supposed to be.

    Could also be that experienced people sometimes make duds.

    EDIT:
    Now that I think about it, there's so many influences on the way to the final picture.
    Creator - Writer - Screenplay - Director - Editor

    Through all these parts, the client (often the creator) are the ones with the last say.
    Last edited by Kumorii; 2022-10-31 at 08:29 AM.
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  16. #7596
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    McKay and Payne are the ones making the stories and how things should play out. Writers of specific episodes are taking their writing and write what they want to happen into a script.
    They are given the plot points and major interactions.
    Then McKay and Payne and maybe even Webber have the last say in reviews of the episodes.

    Nothing comes to screen without their involvement.

    It's like being a graphic designer having to design a shit logo because the client wants it a certain way.
    Then trying to use the artists reputation as to say, well they are good so this logo must've been good, is just disingenuous.

    Being a good writer you might be able to salvage things, but if the basic plot is garbage not much can be done. Especially if the client is also set in stone on how it's supposed to be.
    Yea I know, its like comic book writers or video game writers, most of the time they are told what to write, whether it through editors or head writers or senior writers or screen writers. So its usually a more filtered idea, I hate the writing process in media. Its a job I'd hate to have. Basically being told what to write instead of actually writing freely. Then again thats their job and I am sure its a job they are used to.

    You really need to be organised to make all those writing positions connect.
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  17. #7597
    Quote Originally Posted by Orby View Post
    Yea I know, its like comic book writers or video game writers, most of the time they are told what to write, whether it through editors or head writers or senior writers or screen writers. So its usually a more filtered idea, I hate the writing process in media. Its a job I'd hate to have. Basically being told what to write instead of actually writing freely. Then again thats their job and I am sure its a job they are used to.

    You really need to be organised to make all those writing positions connect.
    I think in general all those positions do influence the end product if the client lets them.
    The reason WHY they exist as specialized positions is just for that expertise in those areas.

    So to me, having reputable writers on the show and it still turned out as it did... just speaks volumes against McKay, Payne and Webber tbh.

    Sad really, the show had great potential...destroyed by management :/
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  18. #7598
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    McKay and Payne are the ones making the stories and how things should play out. Writers of specific episodes are taking their writing and write what they want to happen into a script.
    They are given the plot points and major interactions.
    Then McKay and Payne and maybe even Webber have the last say in reviews of the episodes.

    We also need to look in WHAT they did write for those shows, what part did they have with it, how much did they write themselves, etc etc, then compare here. For all we know their finger in those shows could be small or the episodes credit to then were not that good either.

    Either way, the true writers for the story are Mcyay and Payne, they did this garbage, the writers can't make gold from shit

  19. #7599
    Pit Lord rogoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    According to this list they had writers with experience from the Sopranos, breaking bad, better call Saul, stranger things, starwars resistance, toy story4 among other shows, seems like a pretty good range of experience.

    https://m.imdb.com/title/tt7631058/fullcredits/writer
    just because the 'writers room' is full of previously successful writers from many different and varied projects means jackshit when the people in charge are 2 of the most unqualified muppets that could have been picked for their role, and it was their story that these acclaimed writers were forced to tell, it had nothing whatsoever to do with the individual writers themselves, they were forced to write what was given to them and the clowfiesta who were put in charge of this project got the final say on everything, and it's self evident now that the entire mess of a show is released, and like i said, this was prophesied long before the release of the show, and thanks to almost a decade of past experience dealing with these kinds of clowns who think they are bigger than the work they put out, it could be seen a mile away just how much of a trainwreck this was gonna be and lo it was to be, also, have you noticed all the people in this thread that were all 'it's not even out yet just wait it's probably gonna be good' have not posted since the show aired and have stayed silent because everything that was said about this mess of a show prior to its release has come to pass, not a single thing that was predicted to happen has failed to not happen, and that's all down to the 3 clowns at the head of the project who as i have said are severely unqualified for the job and should never have been within a million miles of this project but here we are.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    We also need to look in WHAT they did write for those shows, what part did they have with it, how much did they write themselves, etc etc, then compare here. For all we know their finger in those shows could be small or the episodes credit to then were not that good either.

    Either way, the true writers for the story are Mcyay and Payne, they did this garbage, the writers can't make gold from shit
    THE SEA IS ALWAYS RIGHT!!!!, and yet there's plenty of people in this thread who have and continue to defend this heap that think it's the best thing since sliced bread, so clearly they believe if you polish a turd long enough it'll turn into gold lol.

  20. #7600
    It's actually tragic how Aemond Targaryen from Westeros looks more like a Middle Earth elf than... you know... the creatures from this show:


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