1. #7661
    The Unstoppable Force rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    We haven't really heard anything regarding Amazon's season 2 plans for RoP, with the most news we got talking about a 2024 release and some actors coming out saying they don't know of they will be returning at all.
    We know as much about the 2024 release of HotD and their plans as we do for Rings of Power. Not much. The only real difference between the shows is that HBO released a press release post-finale where as Amazon has not. It doesn't mean anything about the state of production or the feelings on Amazon's part. They just don't talk about their shows afterwards that much.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  2. #7662
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    We know as much about the 2024 release of HotD and their plans as we do for Rings of Power. Not much. The only real difference between the shows is that HBO released a press release post-finale where as Amazon has not. It doesn't mean anything about the state of production or the feelings on Amazon's part. They just don't talk about their shows afterwards that much.
    Sure they do. They made post finale announcements for other shows like the Boys and other projects. It's quite expected. They even took time to talk about Wheel of Time post finale, and I thought that was a mediocre series, worse than RoP.

    That's why I said their silence here is deafening. It's actually not what was expected.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2022-11-12 at 04:40 PM.

  3. #7663
    The Unstoppable Force rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Sure they do. They made post finale announcements for other shows like the Boys and other projects. It's quite expected. They even took time to talk about Wheel of Time post finale, and I thought that was a mediocre series, worse than RoP.
    Amazon has done podcasts and interviews with the end of the season for Rings of Power. There isn't a silence that is any less for their other shows. The talk for their other series was primarily second-hand from news, influencers, etc.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  4. #7664
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Amazon has done podcasts and interviews with the end of the season for Rings of Power. There isn't a silence that is any less for their other shows. The talk for their other series was primarily second-hand from news, influencers, etc.
    Assuming you are talking about their official Rings of Power podcast which you probably haven't listened to, that podcast was bout the run of the series, not talking about current status of its viewership and what they have in store for the near future.

  5. #7665
    The Unstoppable Force rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Assuming you are talking about their official Rings of Power podcast which you probably haven't listened to, that podcast was bout the run of the series, not talking about current status of its viewership and what they have in store for the near future.
    They have done other appearances. The official podcast even has a post-finale (day after it aired) interview at NY Comic Con. The CEO of Amazon studios talked about Rings of Power at Mipcom. Even House of the Dragon hasn't said what they have in store for the future. All they have said is they won't return until 2024 and a few general plans. You are holding Amazon to a standard that practically no one follows. Amazon hasn't even talked about future seasons of their other shows right after a season ended.

    https://variety.com/2022/biz/news/lo...gm-1235408282/
    Last edited by rhorle; 2022-11-12 at 05:53 PM.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  6. #7666
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    It's been fascinating to see how different the fan reaction has been compared to reviewers. Reviewers are almost all positive - fans are negative, particularly actual Tolkien fans. The rotten tomatoes ratings are still 39% and 85%. So I mean, yeah, the rumors have been more reliable than the media. It's been shocking to see this. There are a few people who share the overwhelmingly negative reaction that fans have, but mostly it's professional reviewers being like, eh, this is boilerplate fantasy with high production values, I'll give it a B+.

    So yeah, we're left with rumors in the absence of a functioning critical press.
    As if you can trust reviewers. In the norwegian media the review of house of dragon for example did not get rated based on how good actors it had, or how good the plot was. Nope. All focus were on female presence, empowerment and how they focused on taking down patriarchy. If this kind of imbecilic thought process dominates paid reviewers from big media companies then they're all trash and deserve moving homes from their house to a cardboard box on the streets.

  7. #7667
    Herald of the Titans rogoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    You're right, but why even waste your time? This thread has entered the usual phase popular threads in this sub-forum enter; the same handful of miserable cunts whining incessantly and anyone that dare be positive is being paid, are a shill, or a troll, or whatever. Anything positive is seen that way. There is immediate distrust. While anything negative is met with serious acceptance, because how could this piece of media be seen any other way? Though, tbf, this thread started off that way long before there was even a single episode.

    Personally, I'll just wait until S2 starts and see which of them immediately decides its dogshit in the months before it airs, even if they change anything for the better. That's all this shitshow of a sub-forum ever is; the dregs of media consumption. People that doesn't actually watch things (unless they get called out on it enough and then do lol). People that just read summaries (Xath). People that are blatant hypocrites that will accuse you of arguing for the sake of it, while doing exactly that themselves (Triceron). People that make YouTube videos 6 months before an episode airs to tell you how evil cannot create anything good with a butchered Tolkien quote (Val). These are not serious people and certainly don't deserve your time. Let them rage like the impotent beings they are. If they don't do it here, they're probably just doing it in YouTube comments anyway.

    Its a shame I won't read replies to this post, though.
    and yet every available metric shows it to be a failure of epic proportions, so bad was its' failure it's got all upper management at Amazon desperately scraping around to get the fires put out and run as much damage control as is possible, with the showrunners all but begging people to watch the show in recent interviews they did for the same publication calling out the 'creatively bankrupt first season', but i mean you don't believe in hard data, you don't believe when people tell you something months in advance which turns out to be true after the fact, because the only metric you believe in is your feelings, and as you have demonstrated countless times in this thread as well as myriad other threads over time, if something hurts your feelings it's the biggest travesty known to mankind, but by all means, keep telling everyone how much of a masterpiece this commercial failure has been, i'm sure your little echo chamber will enjoy that, all 5 of you.

  8. #7668
    The Unstoppable Force Syegfryed's Avatar
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    People are either full on copium thinking this show was a hit or a success or eating amazon bs of excuses, and i don't know which is worse.

    Show was supposed to be the new stranger things or the amazon game of thrones, but it failed to build a fanbase, people only talk about to make fun of it or to delusionary defend it, or just defend out of spite to be a contrarian, in social media the show is not near house of the dragon, it did not bring public engagement

    The money they put into it do not reflect the show they present, it was not supposed to be an "ok" show either, and no even this it was.

  9. #7669
    The Unstoppable Force rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    Things are heating up... listen, it's not terrible if you don't know the source material. It's fine, boilerplate TV fantasy, with all the flaws of TV writing. But like, you don't spend 250 million to buy this IP and get boilerplate fantasy.
    You've and others have already shown that source material isn't the issue. As the Jackson films deviated and where even disliked by the Tolkien Estate for not capturing the spirit of the work properly. Yet those films are praised by you and others as being a good thing. It just shows that deviations, "spirit", and other terms to describe Canon sources are ultimately meaningless in discussions. If a product is liked those things no longer matter. If a product isn't liked then those things matter.

    The show isn't exceptional by any means but it isn't generic "boilerplate" either. It still draws a lot from Tolkien's world.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  10. #7670
    The Unstoppable Force Syegfryed's Avatar
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    I love the false equivalence of "the source isn't a problem cause peter jackson movie changes stuff too" like, ma boy you are comparing a lake with the fucking ocean, Jackson changes are not nearly close to the bs they did in this show

    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    Things are heating up... listen, it's not terrible if you don't know the source material. It's fine, boilerplate TV fantasy, with all the flaws of TV writing. But like, you don't spend 250 million to buy this IP and get boilerplate fantasy. And, like with Wheel of Time, I don't believe that it's a successful strategy to create something that's just not appealing to the most dedicated fans of that IP because you changed too much. Yes, sure, you need to appeal to wider audience than Silmarillion fans, but I think you need Silmarillion fans to be excited about it and help spread it by word of mouth.
    Even if this was a random fantasy world this show would still be mediocre though, that is the second biggest problem with it after the destruction of tolkien work, and that is why it flopped so hard.

  11. #7671
    The Unstoppable Force rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    I love the false equivalence of "the source isn't a problem cause peter jackson movie changes stuff too" like, ma boy you are comparing a lake with the fucking ocean, Jackson changes are not nearly close to the bs they did in this show
    That is my point that you seem to have missed. Changes that would normal be picked apart are ignored because you like the movies. Even when the Tolkien's do not like it. Shouldn't we be going by their opinion for what fits the spirit of Tolkien? Since they are the closest to the original author as we will ever get. Yet their disdain is also ignored.

    The show has not flopped. It still has high viewership. It stopped the decline in viewers for the finale. The barometer for a flop is not your personal taste. It is strange how you, and others, can't actually accept that the show wasn't a flop. You have to keep denying reality for some strange reason. Why is it that any success can't be allowed when you dislike the show?
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  12. #7672
    The Unstoppable Force Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    That is my point that you seem to have missed. Changes that would normal be picked apart are ignored because you like the movies
    And that is false, straight up a false equivalence, the changes in the movies are not nearly as retarded as the ones in the show, period.

    The show flopped fucking hard, no matter how many artificial numbers amazon cam come up with, it didn't perform nearly as good as other shows with less budget and less fanbase

  13. #7673
    The Unstoppable Force rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    The show flopped fucking hard, no matter how many artificial numbers amazon cam come up with, it didn't perform nearly as good as other shows with less budget and less fanbase
    Amazon doesn't control Nielsen. Those numbers indicate that the week episode 8 came out they had 1,137 million minutes streamed on US TV's. That is close to the two episode premiere of 1,253 million mins. It didn't flop hard. Why can't you acknowledge that the show didn't flop? It doesn't change anything else about the show and how good or bad it was.

    You also mistake bring up the Jackson work. It isn't to equate the changes in any way. It is easier for you to create a strawman, that you copied from another poster, then to counter what I've actually said. Mr. Jackson had some big changes like all elves being blonde hair clones. Or Helm's deep being drastically different. That wasn't the point of though. It was how "changes from Canon" or "Against the spirit of Tolkien" only matter to you, and others, when you dislike the work. If it is work like the Jackson films that you like then it doesn't matter if it went against the spirit of Tolkien.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  14. #7674
    The Unstoppable Force Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    As I mentioned earlier, I seriously tried to find plot points that existed in this show that also actually exist in Tolkien's work. I came up with:

    Tar-Palantir dies
    Mithril is discovered
    Three rings are made

    And that's literally it. From the entire 8 episode season I can't come up with anything else, unless you count the prologue.
    And if you take two of those 3 points, they are way different from the actual events, like how the elven rings are supposed to be made last and how mithril was not some fucking dip dope magic ore with the power of silmaril
    To the "false equivalence" point - it's as if people think you're going to say, "You know what, you're right, I think it's great now because you reminded me Jackson changed things too!" This is all subjective stuff - it's not wrong to think that one set of changes is ok and the other is bad.
    The problem is - some people - want to compare a deep cut in your arm to literally ripping off your arm, its signal of desperation and bad faith

    I do think it might just be that the showrunners have bitten off an incredibly difficult task. Jackson's work was very good when he had strong source material - Lord of the Rings - and bad when he had weaker material (Hobbit). And Jackson nearly ended RotK on an incredibly sour note when he planned to have Aragorn fight Sauron in the last battle while Frodo was on Mount Doom - that would have been an awful scene. Similarly, GoT fell apart when it ran out of book material, and Disney Star Wars movies flopped too. I think there's a big lesson in recent years that you need very strong source material, and that TV/movie writers aren't going to make that good a universe on their own.
    They had a difficult task, but they still tried to chew too much, full of themselves, saying shit like "we will make a story tolkien never did", the dialogue, the acting, everything was medium to bad.

  15. #7675
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    You're right, but why even waste your time? This thread has entered the usual phase popular threads in this sub-forum enter; the same handful of miserable cunts whining incessantly and anyone that dare be positive is being paid, are a shill, or a troll, or whatever. Anything positive is seen that way. There is immediate distrust. While anything negative is met with serious acceptance, because how could this piece of media be seen any other way? Though, tbf, this thread started off that way long before there was even a single episode.

    Personally, I'll just wait until S2 starts and see which of them immediately decides its dogshit in the months before it airs, even if they change anything for the better. That's all this shitshow of a sub-forum ever is; the dregs of media consumption. People that doesn't actually watch things (unless they get called out on it enough and then do lol). People that just read summaries (Xath). People that are blatant hypocrites that will accuse you of arguing for the sake of it, while doing exactly that themselves (Triceron). People that make YouTube videos 6 months before an episode airs to tell you how evil cannot create anything good with a butchered Tolkien quote (Val). These are not serious people and certainly don't deserve your time. Let them rage like the impotent beings they are. If they don't do it here, they're probably just doing it in YouTube comments anyway.

    Its a shame I won't read replies to this post, though.
    Sure you won't we all know you literally live for the replies to your contrarian bs.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Amazon doesn't control Nielsen. Those numbers indicate that the week episode 8 came out they had 1,137 million minutes streamed on US TV's. That is close to the two episode premiere of 1,253 million mins. It didn't flop hard. Why can't you acknowledge that the show didn't flop? It doesn't change anything else about the show and how good or bad it was.

    You also mistake bring up the Jackson work. It isn't to equate the changes in any way. It is easier for you to create a strawman, that you copied from another poster, then to counter what I've actually said. Mr. Jackson had some big changes like all elves being blonde hair clones. Or Helm's deep being drastically different. That wasn't the point of though. It was how "changes from Canon" or "Against the spirit of Tolkien" only matter to you, and others, when you dislike the work. If it is work like the Jackson films that you like then it doesn't matter if it went against the spirit of Tolkien.
    Nielsen for streaming is ending up about as reliable as political polls. If you want to actually know how shows are doing pay attention to what is prioritized in advertising hint it isn't shows that are bombing.

  16. #7676
    The Unstoppable Force rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    Nielsen for streaming is ending up about as reliable as political polls. If you want to actually know how shows are doing pay attention to what is prioritized in advertising hint it isn't shows that are bombing.
    We know that isn't how Amazon views things based on recent comments about from the Studio leader. They have advertised Rings of Power but they also want to keep people in the ecosystem. So they will advertise smaller projects because the big ones don't need the boost. It is also why they will advertise series that haven't had new content for a while when similar shows appear.

    "Salke outlined the strategy to go after big globe-trotting fantasy and action-genre fare such as “The Boys,” “The Wheel of Time,” “Tom Clancy’s Jack Ryan” and “Jack Reacher” in anticipation of “Rings of Power” arriving this year. Amazon Prime Video has committed to five seasons of “Lord of the Rings.”

    “Those are two areas that we will invest in as global tentpole content strategies. But we also want to appeal to local audiences,” Salke said. “People will come for the big global content. But what we don’t want is a customer to come in to be able to just watch one show, and then there’s nothing else for them. So we want to make sure we are really surfacing to them a collection of content that they love.”"-- https://variety.com/2022/biz/news/lo...gm-1235408282/


    Rings of Power has not bombed. Nielsen ratings are not unreliable. They are just part of a picture. The only reason why you are trying to now call them into question is because they don't support that the show has bombed. If the numbers were low I bet you would be using them as evidence of failure. I don't understand why it is so hard for you, and others, who dislike the show to admit anything positive about the show. It having a high viewership doesn't stop the rest of the show from being good or bad. Yet you folks always try to tear down any hint of it not being an utter failure just because.
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  17. #7677
    I did like 1 minute of reviewing this show before giving it a try (decided to not watch it, not interested in lotr that much) - from my understanding is that amazon tried to update lore to year 2022, because this was written by a british cunt so obviously it has tons of racism and classism and what not and neckbears downvoted show to oblivion?

    Or did I get a wrong impression?

    ---

    OT: rowlen or w/e harry poter writer's name is was also british and, surprise surprise - also a cunt. Any british writers that aren't cunts? See you all in a month.

    Infracted.
    Last edited by eschatological; 2022-11-13 at 04:17 AM.
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  18. #7678
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    They have done other appearances. The official podcast even has a post-finale (day after it aired) interview at NY Comic Con. The CEO of Amazon studios talked about Rings of Power at Mipcom. Even House of the Dragon hasn't said what they have in store for the future. All they have said is they won't return until 2024 and a few general plans. You are holding Amazon to a standard that practically no one follows. Amazon hasn't even talked about future seasons of their other shows right after a season ended.

    https://variety.com/2022/biz/news/lo...gm-1235408282/
    Which is all pre-planned and part of the marketting behind the series as it was being released.

    Nothing is addressing how the series did or how they gauged its performance. Even the Variety article states that the mip om thing was practically pre-recorded

    Instead, Salke recorded a 35-minute live-to-tape Q&A with Cynthia Littleton, Variety’s Co-editor in chief.

    So yeah, nothing that addresses how the series actually did and how to address any of the rumors we've been getting now. It's not like we didn't know about the 5 seasons planned and the fact that S2 is coming in 2024, that was already known. What I'm talking about is a report similarly to what they did when the show first released giving out big numbers, which they did for post finale for the Boys and some other Amazon Prime shows, which is quite the opposite of you saying that they don't do that.

  19. #7679
    The Unstoppable Force rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Which is all pre-planned and part of the marketting behind the series as it was being released.
    You don't think other shows that do stuff isn't pre-planned and part of marketting? A speech at a industry conference is "marketing"? Why does it matter if it is pre-recorded or not if it was being done remotely?

    Very few shows address rumors like we are getting now. Numbers from Nielsen haven't even had a full week of the season finale and you are already asking for them to discuss it. They also rarely have done such for their past show. Do you have an actual link to Amazon talking about The Boys right after the season ended? I can't find a press release and google just shows articles talking about Nielsen or season premiere comments by Amazon.
    Last edited by rhorle; 2022-11-13 at 07:07 PM.
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  20. #7680
    Good god is this still going on? How can something people apparantly hate so much with such vigor keep people busy a freaking month after the show finished?

    Also why did you fucking watch it in the first place or more than one episode?

    Give it a rest allready.
    See you when season 2 airs becuase everyone in here hating the ever living fuck out of it will definetly noooot watch it *winkwink*

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