1. #7681
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    You said "couldn't", which is definitive. "Could" is not. Those are very different statements, with very different levels of certainty. "X could happen" means I don't know that it couldn't; "X couldn't happen" means you know it couldn't..
    So what does grossly distorted mean to you? Remember you've excluded "lie" and "misrepresent". So they couldn't have grossly distorted things even as a potential.

    No. And that's not what I said. I said I have enough data to be reasonably convinced. For your whole "175m is impressive" thing, I do not have enough data to be reasonably convinced.
    You have data to cover 200+ million subscribers but not for a lessor amount of subscribers? There is no way you analyzed enough about the majority of what Amazon's subscribers valued. Amazon doesn't typically release information like that which is why a statement giving user count is such a big deal. Yet you know exactly how majority of Amazon's 200+ million customers value a service?

    Your advice on getting more data to support you claim is just as BS as the rest of your argument. Why? Because you didn't actually get data to support your claim about majority of Amazon subscribers not valuing its Prime Video service. I've used logic correctly you've just been arguing in bad faith and only accepting things as logical when it comes from you. Even when you lie or exaggerate about past research you've done.

    The data I've provided does reasonably lend itself to making the claim. We have a statement yearly user engagement. We have yearly growth. We have total subscriber count (as a distinct piece of information). That is enough judgement to know if 70% growth and 86% engagement in a service that isn't valued is impressive. Your own data backs that up if Prime Video is as unvalued as you claim. Which is likely why you've been avoiding answering that very question, right?
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  2. #7682
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    He’s not trying to have a good faith debate. He’s not learning anything from what you say. He’s just fucking with you.
    I saw that in the wot thread. There's no logic in that guy's posts, and what he sees is twisted into something else. It's best to ignore him.

  3. #7683
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    I saw that in the wot thread. There's no logic in that guy's posts, and what he sees is twisted into something else. It's best to ignore him.
    I think I'll go with that. There's just too much work explaining things to someone who very obviously either cannot comprehend the simplest things, or is unwilling to honestly engage with them.

    Still - we all learned something from this

  4. #7684
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    I think I'll go with that. There's just too much work explaining things to someone who very obviously either cannot comprehend the simplest things, or is unwilling to honestly engage with them.
    Is that why you avoid the simplest of questions? You keep turning from the honest discussion to only focus on your "lack of data" example that turned out to be something that you didn't actually lack on the subject.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  5. #7685
    Pit Lord rogoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    Another character I hate - Gil-Galad. This dude is supposed to be the greatest Elf Warrior left in Middle Earth. He's played by a 40 year old round faced dude in a dress.

    They also butchered the "high king" thing. The "high king" of the Noldor never had as much power as they give Gil-Galad in this show, it's more a first among equals thing. From TolkienGateway.net: "The High King of the Noldor was the head of the House of Finwë in Middle-earth. Its bearer was the nominal overlord of all the Noldorin realms, but had little practical authority due to the disunity of the Noldor."

    This illustrates itself in the Annatar story - Gil-Galad meets Annatar and distrusts him, and tells everyone not to deal with him, but Celebrimbor's like, eh, whatever man, and he works with Annatar for 500 years. Galadriel is his ally but she's mostly independent of him, ruling areas nominally under his control. If he told her she had to go to Valinor, she would have told him to fuck off.

    And he suffers from the weirdness of the Galadriel story too - are we supposed to be annoyed with him, or is he right when he obstructs what she's trying to do? What are his motivations, is he actually wise? He just doesn't make sense. They messed him up by squishing all the plot together, he doesn't even really need to have a major part in this part of the narrative, he doesn't even fight in the war between Sauron and the Elves, he sends Elrond to do it for him.
    Gil-Galad in lore is one of the most influential elves in the entire second age, it was he who first noticed the return of evil things to the world, it was he who first engaged with the numenoreans for aid, and it was him who led the elves of the west to prosperity and general safety, but being current year and the types of people in charge of this project, we can't have a strong white male lead being the good guy, unless they are a gay or trans person in which case exceptions get made i suppose, all in all the last high king of the noldor got shafted in this production due to the aforementioned biases of the writers/showrunners.

  6. #7686
    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    Gil-Galad in lore is one of the most influential elves in the entire second age, it was he who first noticed the return of evil things to the world, it was he who first engaged with the numenoreans for aid, and it was him who led the elves of the west to prosperity and general safety, but being current year and the types of people in charge of this project, we can't have a strong white male lead being the good guy, unless they are a gay or trans person in which case exceptions get made i suppose, all in all the last high king of the noldor got shafted in this production due to the aforementioned biases of the writers/showrunners.
    I'm not gonna get into the political stuff, but it does have to do with how they view him as a side character to Galadriel's (utterly confusing, inconsistent) main character. The don't have a consistent idea for Galadriel - she's a badass, she's kept down by the men in charge, she's manipulated by Sauron so she's doing some straight up evil stuff (so maybe they should be trying to get her out there?), but like, they seem to think she's the heroine.

    But I mean, yeah - Gil Galad is one of the two people who fights Sauron in the end. He's an absolute badass.

    Funny note - if it takes them 2 years per season (as they seem to be on track to do) actor who plays Gil Galad - who is supposed to be immortal - will be 48, and Celebrimbor's actor - also immortal - will be 61.
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  7. #7687
    Pit Lord rogoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Measuring engagement that has kept it in the top 10 shows of the season indicates that its a popular show no matter how you cut it.

    Just because you personally don't like the show doesn't mean the majority share your sentiments. The dropoff of viewership is still the minority of people who watched the show, and its numbers are still high enough to keep it in the top 10, if not the top 5 shows watched during its release. Of course, it should have been a better show with the amount of money they put into it.

    Most people are fine with bullshit TV, that is reality.

    Shows like Andor is a much better show yet it can't even get the numbers that Rings of Power had. That's just how it goes.
    the drop-off from first episode to second episode saw a 40% decline in viewership in the US market, subsequent viewership for each episode after that saw a decline of ~20% per week, meaning that come the season finale there was less people watching than had stuck around after they started watching the past the first episode, and sure you might have had some come back to see if anything in the finale was decent enough to watch the episodes they missed, but ultimately it lost the 'majority' of its viewership, it lost more people than it had people left to watch, meaning that the people who remained are a 'minority' by the literal definitions of the words, this has nothing whatsoever to do with whether i liked or disliked this garbage, these are irrefutable facts as shown by multiple sources of data, and even Amazon themselves when they were in panic mode at release stated that 25 million people 'SAMPLED' the show, not watched, not streamed, 'SAMPLED' which means that they saw enough to form the opinion it wasn't worth watching it all the way through and dropped it like a lead balloon, and the silence has been deafening since then because not once have they talked about engagement metrics, and even when talking to investors about the project the best they could come out with was a single line 'we are approaching 100m active users', i have 700 friends on facebook, does that mean i to am approaching 100m friend adds there?, that's the kind of bullshit spin they are putting out and paying for simp levels of 'journalism' from the access media crown to keep this failed show in the public consciousness.

    there's been 3 different sources saying that behind the scenes Amazon is desperately trying to salvage what can be salvaged and retooling the entire project with a potential full reboot instead of going into a season 2, i don't know about you but that doesn't sound like it's been enjoyed by a 'majority' of people.

  8. #7688
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    You didn't say it? Lmao.
    You don't understand the difference between 'Could' and 'Did'?

    FUcking LMAO

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    the drop-off from first episode to second episode saw a 40% decline in viewership *snip*
    Even if you take into the percentage drops, it still pulls in numbers that keeps it in the top 10 most streamed shows for the duration of its run, including the spike it got back up by the finale.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2022-11-11 at 05:53 AM.

  9. #7689
    Pit Lord rogoth's Avatar
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    so not only is the entire show a steaming pile of hot garbage, Amazon or at least the showrunners and people in charge of this failed project who are representing Amazon have failed to make this show in a sustainable manner:



    don't think daddy jeff is gonna be too happy when he starts getting mainstream media calling on his door asking for answers regarding his obscene environmental damage caused all in the pursuit of making as much money as possible pissing on Tolkien's legacy.

  10. #7690
    I see another victim has been claimed, Biomega...sad to see.
    Last edited by Kumorii; 2022-11-11 at 08:58 AM.
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  11. #7691
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    so not only is the entire show a steaming pile of hot garbage, Amazon or at least the showrunners and people in charge of this failed project who are representing Amazon have failed to make this show in a sustainable manner:


    don't think daddy jeff is gonna be too happy when he starts getting mainstream media calling on his door asking for answers regarding his obscene environmental damage caused all in the pursuit of making as much money as possible pissing on Tolkien's legacy.
    People are saying the showrunners are going to be swapped, or at least, their roles in the overall thing will be cut, and they are just waiting the Awards(which are gonna be taken by House of the dragon), the backlash was too big for then to do nothing.

    I doubt they will announce that, that is like admitting defeat

  12. #7692
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    I'm not gonna get into the political stuff, but it does have to do with how they view him as a side character to Galadriel's (utterly confusing, inconsistent) main character. The don't have a consistent idea for Galadriel - she's a badass, she's kept down by the men in charge, she's manipulated by Sauron so she's doing some straight up evil stuff (so maybe they should be trying to get her out there?), but like, they seem to think she's the heroine.

    But I mean, yeah - Gil Galad is one of the two people who fights Sauron in the end. He's an absolute badass.

    Funny note - if it takes them 2 years per season (as they seem to be on track to do) actor who plays Gil Galad - who is supposed to be immortal - will be 48, and Celebrimbor's actor - also immortal - will be 61.
    The show tries so hard to make Galadriel a girlboss, even though she isn't in any form of the lore. The hacks working on the show clearly have zero understanding of what makes her a strong character in the overall Middle Earth lore. They think that feats of strength (aka cringe wannabe Matrix types of shit) and bossing people around makes her interesting rather than wisdom, compassion and authority that comes out of respect from others, not being a condescending bitch.
    Last edited by Rennadrel; 2022-11-11 at 12:23 PM.

  13. #7693
    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    The show tries so hard to make Galadrial a girlboss, even though she isn't in any form of the lore. The hacks working on the show clearly have zero understanding of what makes her a strong character in the overall Middle Earth lore. They think that feats of strength (aka cringe wannabe Matrix types of shit) and bossing people around makes her interesting rather than wisdom, compassion and authority that comes out of respect from others, not being a condescending bitch.
    Agreed - she’s undoubtedly a weaker character in RoP than in the lore. You could argue that she spent the entire first season manipulated by men - first Gil Galad and then Sauron.

    No way in hell that happens to book Galadriel.
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  14. #7694
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    You don't understand the difference between 'Could' and 'Did'?
    They said could suffer. I said couldn't suffer. Neither of us used did. It seems silly to be laughing at yourself for not knowing the difference but here you are anyways.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  15. #7695
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    People are saying the showrunners are going to be swapped, or at least, their roles in the overall thing will be cut, and they are just waiting the Awards(which are gonna be taken by House of the dragon), the backlash was too big for then to do nothing.

    I doubt they will announce that, that is like admitting defeat
    There's interviews out where some of the actors don't even know if they're going to be reprising their roles in S2.

    With this rumor it'd be surprising if they really went the way of a soft reboot. I can't imagine any of what they have being salvageable without extensive cuts, too much of the story is built upon the Sauron red herring bullshit.

  16. #7696
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    There's interviews out where some of the actors don't even know if they're going to be reprising their roles in S2.

    With this rumor it'd be surprising if they really went the way of a soft reboot. I can't imagine any of what they have being salvageable without extensive cuts, too much of the story is built upon the Sauron red herring bullshit.
    To somewhat play devil’s advocate - I guess you could argue that they covered so little actual lore (basically only the three rings and Tar Palantir dying, everything else was made up bullshit), that a reboot is not completely impossible. They just have to switch the order the rings are made in.

    So next season, Galadriel goes on a long camping trip for the entire season, a meteor kills the Istar and what’s her name, and the plot is focused on Sauron, the rest of the rings, and eventually the the war of the elves and Sauron while numenor takes a back seat.

    Following season is growing power of Mordor, war between numenor and Sauron, season after that is destruction of Numenor, then last season is the last alliance.

    Not sure how the southlands crew fits in either.

    But doing that might allow Amazon to avoid calling the first season a failure, at least until after the second season is a success.
    Last edited by SpaghettiMonk; 2022-11-11 at 08:41 PM.
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  17. #7697
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    But doing that might allow Amazon to avoid calling the first season a failure, at least until after the second season is a success.
    The first season is not a failure though. We know just from US TV's it has maintained good ratings. Add in PC/mobile and all other markets and it would be higher. It is strange how people that dislike the show keep insisting that it has been a failure.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  18. #7698
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    The first season is not a failure though. We know just from US TV's it has maintained good ratings. Add in PC/mobile and all other markets and it would be higher. It is strange how people that dislike the show keep insisting that it has been a failure.
    A show that is a success isn't making serious noise about moving showrunners to a lower tier role lols

  19. #7699
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    A show that is a success isn't making serious noise about moving showrunners to a lower tier role lols
    "Serious" lol. There have been rumors of all sorts happening about the show even before the season started. Every rumor should be taken with a grain of salt. The show still has not been a failure.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  20. #7700
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Every rumor on this show should be taken seriously seeing how the rumors before were proven to be right

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