Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[Triceron]

I mean, yeah, the back and forth started to border on stupid long time ago - but if you choose to continue it, either do it in good faith and provide proof when he asks for one, or shut up. That's my take on it. You thinking low of him doesn't exempt you from the rules of a honest conversation, sorry.

Who said I was having an honest conversation?

I mean, If I casually dropped a "Tolkien would roll in his grave", he'd reply asking me to provide a source for that. I'm not sure it'd need to be provided in good faith either. And I'm not opposed to slinging mud when it gets down to it. If I were really looking for better conversation I wouldn't even be here.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

It's not worth my time to dig back 5+ years through articles for. And you haven't been arguing with Rhorle much, so I don't expect you to understand why providing sources for him is a waste of time.

I mean that rather compounds the point that your the one being dishonest because of last experience with Rhorle.

[Rageonit]

Who said I was having an honest conversation?

That's exactly what's being pointed out, ain't it.

[rhorle]

Then I'm sure you can find the information you need.

I have already told you that I can't find anything that fits what you've claimed. Hence why I asked you to provide a link several times. You seem so adamant about something while being unable to to provide anything to back it up.

[Triceron]

I mean that rather compounds the point that your the one being disgust because of last experience with Rhorle.

Yes, I am quite disgusted by that last experience. I'll absolutely admit to that.

If he can't google something that is easily google-able, then that's really not my problem. I'm not humoring him because whatever links I post would be ammunition for him to take on a tangent, or to dismiss for some other arbitrary reasoning that has nothing to do with the context of the original statements. I'm sure you would already know from all the times you've argued and provided links for him. Oh wait.

-edit-

since you meant dishonest, I'll just refer to you to my reply to Rageonit below, since it would just as much explain my reasoning to do so, including his own response which confirms exactly what I predicted would happen.

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That's exactly what's being pointed out, ain't it.

Yep, that it is. Now has that changed your opinion of me to looking stupid as though you ever thought it I didn't already look stupid? Probably not either.

[Rageonit]

Yep, that it is. Now has that changed your opinion of me to looking stupid as though you ever thought it I didn't already look stupid? Probably not either.

Stupid and dishonest are two different things. You can't do much about the former, so that's more easily forgivable. As for the latter, it suggests that you're not a nice person to talk with.

[AcidicSyn]

C'mon man, practically half the pages of this entire thread are dedicated to my arguments with Rhorle, and you think that arguing him NOW will make me look stupid? I think that's a judgement people would have already made regardless of what I do moving forward, and this changes nothing.

Who are we kidding here? You think people think all that highly of anyone else here? The threshold for mutual respect here is quite low. If any of us are actually looking for deep conversation, we wouldn't be looking in the MMO-C off-topic threads for it.

Hey I think well of several posters here, yourself among them. Auculd to name another. Endus too. I don't always agree with what they say, but I have some level of respect for any mmo-c poster who can consistently debate with other posters without devolving into foaming at the mouth and screeching.

[bledgor]

Are people really defending the troll bot? Like seriously half the thread is him making asinine idiotic comments that have no basis in reality. Find a better hill (in this case he would be the Mariana trench) to die on.

[Triceron]

Stupid and dishonest are two different things. You can't do much about the former, so that's more easily forgivable. As for the latter, it suggests that you're not a nice person to talk with.

Well, it's easy to find the Boys' season 1 Amazon statements post-finale release, considering they launched the entire full season in one go.

https://theplaylist.net/amazon-boys-...ings-20190809/

Recently, the Head of Amazon Studios, Jennifer Salke, revealed that “The Boys” is greatly surpassing expectations and the company couldn’t be happier.

“We are thrilled that ‘The Boys’ has surpassed our predictions for viewing in its first two weeks, and has become one of our most-watched Amazon Original series by our Prime Video customers,” she revealed

And that's from a simple google search. So no, its not about whether it's easy to find or not, whether I'm trying to be dishonest or not. It's about the principle of why I wouldn't bother.

I know that if I honor his request, it becomes fuel for him to take the discussion tangentially. Now there are angles to twist more information on the table to fit arguments that were never made. Oh, this article is 3rd party and should be dismissed. Oh, this release isn't like Rings of Power's full season so you can't compare the Boys to it. Oh, this was only one statement made so it's not an indication that Amazon regularly does this, so you shouldn't say they do. You see, there's no point in providing the source because I already know the outcome of the answers, and it's not worth taking the conversation there. If he was also in good faith, then sure, I might honor that request in good faith. He isn't though, that's the difference. I only need to address his claim that Amazon doesn't make post-finale statements about a show's performance by saying they did so for the Boys. The simpler the information, the less there is to take into a needless tangent. If he can't find source for something that is easily google-able, then that really isn't my problem. He's intentionally baiting something to argue. That's how bad faith arguments work. It's not about what facts he can bring to the table, it's what facts you bring that he can dismiss or argue around.

You guys can clue in that Rhorle has a particular way of taking the argument tangentially and like you said, it's probably better not to feed into the arguments if we already know he's baiting for sources and links. I'll say that I took my time to present it to you just for the sake of our discussion, otherwise I wouldn't bother humoring it for him. So yeah, moving forward, if you see me not honoring his requests and not being nice, that's because I'm not being nice to the person who is usually being dishonest in return. If you want to see this as being a blanket characterization of me and how I am not a nice person to talk with in general, then so be it. Thank you for your concern otherwise.

-edit-

So similar to what they have done for Rings of Power. Season 1 of The Boys was released all at once so any comments about anything would happen post finale. We have got the same level of comments about Rings of Power.

You see, he even responded exactly as I expected him to. This is completely tangential to the fact I mentioned this to counter his own claim that Amazon does not make statements about their shows success post release, when this is clearly a valid example of it. He simply brushes it off as 'not on the same level of comments', whatever that means. It's bad faith, I know his answers, and I don't care about 'being honest' for the sake of getting an answer that I know will not progress the discussion at all.

The entire argument he's presenting is in bad faith. That you expect me to be arguing in good faith would be in ignorance of who I'm actually talking to. And that you consider Rhorle with such leniency tells me either you haven't had any experience with actually discussing something against him and providing sources to counter his claims, or that you're willingly being ignorant to them considering how these conversations have flooded the entire thread for this long I find it hard to imagine this is the first time you're seeing this.

[rhorle]

“We are thrilled that ‘The Boys’ has surpassed our predictions for viewing in its first two weeks, and has become one of our most-watched Amazon Original series by our Prime Video customers,” she revealed

So similar to what they have done for Rings of Power. Season 1 of The Boys was released all at once so any comments about anything would happen post finale. We have got the same level of comments about Rings of Power.

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You see, he even responded exactly as I expected him to. This is completely tangential to the fact I mentioned this to counter his own claim that Amazon does not make statements about their shows success, when this is clearly a valid example of it.

Context is important. So while they did make a response after the shows finale episode was released it was impossible not to. The same statements they made about The Boys season 1 have been made about Rings of Power. A 1 day season versus a 7 week season. How does this make the Rings of Power "silence" deafening? They've already talked about the same stuff.

[Triceron]

Context is important. So while they did make a response after the shows finale episode was released it was impossible not to. The same statements they made about The Boys season 1 have been made about Rings of Power. A 1 day season versus a 7 week season. How does this make the Rings of Power "silence" deafening? They've already talked about the same stuff.

You're right, context is important.

So let me remind you - this was a response to you having said Amazon doesn't make statements about their shows performance after full release. It has nothing to do with being a comparable situation to Rings of Power's release. I'm not comparing this specific instance to Rings of Power at all. You're intentionally taking this out of context as a means to dismiss it entirely. I'm using this information to reinforce the fact that Amazon DID make a statement about a series' performance after it was fully released, whereas they HAVE NOT done so for Rings of Power now. It can't be compared to Rings of Power because they never made a statement at all about the series' full performance. It is not meant to be compared, it is meant to address a specific statement you made about them not doing so in the past.

That is the context, which you've blatantly chosen to ignore.

[rhorle]

So let me remind you - this was a response to you having said Amazon doesn't make statements about their shows performance after full release. It has nothing to do with being a comparable situation to Rings of Power's release now, because the context isn't about comparing the two. The context is addressing you having said Amazon doesn't make statements addressing their show's performance.

Right. I was wrong. That still doesn't change that there is no silence about Rings of Power. Because they made similar comments over the 7 weeks of the show was airing. For example we know that 100 million subscribers have watched Rings of Power at the end of September or early October from an interview given. A lot of the things you want them to have done post-finale they did during the 7 week run.

So how does that mean Amazon doesn't like the show performance? The article I took the 100 million statistic from goes into a lot of depth about the show and their thoughts. https://variety.com/2022/tv/news/jen...gm-1235392108/

[Triceron]

Right. I was wrong. That still doesn't change that there is no silence about Rings of Power. Because they made similar comments over the 7 weeks of the show was airing. For example we know that 100 million subscribers have watched Rings of Power at the end of September or early October from an interview given. A lot of the things you want them to have done post-finale they did during the 7 week run.

So how does that mean Amazon doesn't like the show performance? The article I took the 100 million statistic from goes into a lot of depth about the show and their thoughts. https://variety.com/2022/tv/news/jen...gm-1235392108/

Which has nothing to do with what I said, does it?

If you say context is important, then why do you continually try and provide sources that have nothing to do with the fact that the context of my original reply is regarding Amazon statements about Rings of Power's performance post-finale? You're still linking articles released well before the finale and talking about things that were said while the show was still being released. We already agree that Amazon did not make any statements about the show after its full release, so posting these pre-finale articles aren't going to address anything I said.

Did I say they were silent while still releasing the series? No, I didn't. I said they had been silent on its performance after the series finished. . Why are you intentionally taking my argument out of context? I can tell you why. Because you never had anything to argue in the first place and just saw something I said and chose to argue it without considering any of the context. The very thing that you're touting as being important.

[rhorle]

If you say context is important, then why do you continually try and provide sources that have nothing to do with the fact that the context of my original reply is regarding Amazon statements about Rings of Power's performance post-finale?

Because they've made comments about its performance prior to the finale? Why does it matter if it is pre or post when it is the same type of commentary you want? Why do they need to repeat things post finale just to prove the show is a success? Again why does a show have to brag after its last episode in order for it to be seen as good by the studio/producers?

[Triceron]

Because they've made comments about its performance prior to the finale? Why does it matter if it is pre or post when it is the same type of commentary you want?

Because it's not what I said. In fact, it has nothing to do with what I said at all.

I said they have been silent about its performance after the series finished, so I don't know why you're coming at me saying they said stuff prior to it. It has nothing to do with what I said. You understand this right?

You created a fictional argument and are actively arguing it. You even twisted my comments to say 'that still doesn't change that there is no silence about Rings of Power.'. Sure, I can agree with that completely because they weren't silent at all during the release of the series, especially at the first few weeks of release when their numbers were high. Let's not pretend that my comments were ever arguing against that.

Again why does a show have to brag after its last episode in order for it to be seen as good by the studio/producers?

Again, you'll have to ask someone else considering this is not relevant to anything I've said at all, lol. I'm honestly unsure where you're pulling this from.

[rogoth]

Most of the noise comes from YouTube drama fans who think "treated like shit" is an accurate way of describing an adaptation, probably not that many actual Tolkien fans.

you very clearly haven't read any of the reviews for this complete dumpster fire of a project, in places where amazon can't directly censor reviews the hundreds of thousands of die hard Tolkien fans who have given a review have been scathing, and i myself as a die hard fan of the entire works of Tolkien found this disaster waiting to happen, which was later proven to be such a farce it made some of the previously shit on woke fiascos look like works of pristine art by comparison, that's how badly this show has been handled, a total and utter irredeemable trainwreck, so bad did i find it i genuinely thought of adding to a local petition to have it made into a textbook as an example of abject failure in media and a prime example of what not to do when adapting great literary works for television and film.

[rhorle]

Again, you'll have to ask someone else considering this is not relevant to anything I've said at all, lol.

The silence that I'm referring to is contextually specific to the performance of the show and anything to dispel the rumors.

So talking about the performance of the show is not relevant? Why does a show only have to talk about performance post-finale in order for the show to be "successful"? Why do they need to address any and every rumor to be successful? We already have one case of post-finale talking about the show that you dismissed because it was recorded, instead of live, because of a positive covid-19 test. We have examples pre-finale performance. What magically changes about those statements post-finale? Are you claiming they lied?

[Triceron]

So talking about the performance of the show is not relevant? Why does a show only have to talk about performance post-finale in order for the show to be "successful"? Why do they need to address any and every rumor to be successful? We already have one case of post-finale talking about the show that you dismissed because it was recorded, instead of live, because of a positive covid-19 test. We have examples pre-finale performance. What magically changes about those statements post-finale? Are you claiming they lied?

You're implying all sorts of loaded questions, I'm not quite sure what angle you're pushing here. There's nothing to argue here. These have nothing to do with anything I've said.


My original comment talked about them being silent after the series finished, and potentially rendering the rumors that Execs are scrambling after the House of the Dragon's success to be true. I'm not sure how you've come around to say I'm claiming they're lying about their previous statements of the series success when these rumors didn't exist at the time of those announcements. Like, why are you being so dishonest here? I thought you said context was important, why are you ignoring it here?

[rhorle]

Considering you're implying all sorts of arguments here that I've not made at all, I'm not quite sure what angle you're pushing here.

So then what did you mean when you said the silence is deafening? You didn't just say they were silent you were remarking that their silence implies a negative about how they view the show or its performance. It wasn't a "pre-recorded" video. It was a live interview, that was recorded, because Mrs.Salke couldn't attend a conference and give her keynote speech because of a Covid-19 diagnoses.

I've asked you to explain and answer things about your own opinion. Why do you see that as an attack?

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My original comment talked about them being silent after the series finished, and potentially rendering the rumors that Execs are scrambling after the House of the Dragon's success to be true. I'm not sure how you've come around to say I'm claiming they're lying about their previous statements of the series success when these rumors didn't exist at the time of those announcements. Like, why are you being so dishonest here? I thought you said context was important, why are you ignoring it here?

If they previously said they were happy with the show and its success then you implying they are now no longer happy and scrambling means they lied, right? How can they be both happy and unhappy about the same subject? Why do they have to brag about the show after its last episode to continue to be happy about its performance? Why is a rumor automatically true just because they haven't talked about the show?

[Triceron]

So then what did you mean when you said the silence is deafening?

It's an affirmation that they have not addressed the performance of the series after it finished, especially in light of the rumors that have popped up after the series finale. Like the ones that were already being talked about in SpaghettiMonk's post which I was regarding.

You know, context. Which you conveniently ignored despite calling out its importance.

It's been fascinating to see how different the fan reaction has been compared to reviewers. Reviewers are almost all positive - fans are negative, particularly actual Tolkien fans. The rotten tomatoes ratings are still 39% and 85%. So I mean, yeah, the rumors have been more reliable than the media. It's been shocking to see this.

If they previously said they were happy with the show and its success then you implying they are now no longer happy and scrambling means they lied, right?

Not if you consider that House of the Dragon was being released near the same time and was still gaining traction well after Amazon's original statement.

It wouldn't 'imply the original statement was a lie'. It would be a reaction to the competition.


And to piggy-back on what Rageonit said earlier, I can't fix stupidity. So yeah, we're circling around with nothing to discuss or argue here. Just you bringing up a bunch of baseless accusations that I somehow need an affirmation from Amazon in order to consider this show a success or some shit like that. Arguments for the sake of arguing. Anything else? Maybe you want to bring up how my use of 'silence is defeaning' fails to make literal sense? You haven't addressed all the Galadriel Hate statements that I never made, either.