1. #7861
    Herald of the Titans rogoth's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    in the land of killer unicrons
    Posts
    2,524
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    You really have to consider whether you're wasting your time responding to someone who thinks Galadriel was portrayed as a "good", flawless, girl-boss character. Like, did they even watch the show? They obviously are completely incapable of critically evaluating the show on any level as their only "argument" is based on what they THINK the showrunners believe based on one or two misrepresented quotes.

    It's crystal clear that this first season revolved around her learning how her revenge-driven extremism pushed her allies away and led her into the enemy's trap. The final moments of the season involve her taking steps to move away from the toxic mentality that drove her actions at the beginning, and one would assume that future seasons will continue this arc to culminate in her becoming more like the character we all know from LotR.

    The idea that the showrunners set up this arc while at the same time thinking that these flaws aren't really flaws is absolutely idiotic.
    look who it is, mr sycophantic phallus gobbler himself, poking your head out of your little cave to defend this utter garbage yet again despite it being shown in all it's bastardised cheap glory to be the epitome of failure, the literal definition of what not to do in media, and yet you're still clutching onto that tiny thread of hope that these clowns, (who based on multiple reports are likely going to be replaced as head of the project for how abysmally this thing performed), somehow had an actual plan despite them admitting to the contrary that they were winging it for most of their pitch, which btw got declined 7 times previously before they ended up pulling the 'we know JJ abrams' card which ended up getting them the gig, after a full decade or more of being failed script writers and screenplay writers.

    but please, tell us more about these hacks who couldn't write their way out of a wet paper bag in a storm are somehow going to turn this disaster around, tell us all how they somehow magically undo the abject failure that they have presented so far, because i'm genuinely more interested to see what bullshit mental gymnastics you try to pull to explain their grand vision when they themselves in interviews all but said they didn't know going into it, i'm sure you know more than they do about how they were writing this mess, because at every turn all you have done is stand on your imaginary self righteous mound of sand thinking you're in the right when the overwhelming evidence points to the contrary, but by all means keep going, i wonder how far you can dig yourself before you realise the truth.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    Overall I admit to being mystified whether they see them as flaws because they made her have flaws but she also has to be right about everything.

    This happens all over the place in the show, I honestly have no idea what they’re even trying to do. There’s the conversation with Halbrand where she seems to admit to a problem “because I cannot stop!” but then complains about how her friends abandoned her. Like, didn’t you just say it’s your fault?

    My best guess is they want us to be so empathetic to Galadriel that we don’t notice how much the rest of the story is warped around her character.
    i saw mentioned somewhere on twitter that her character is that of a 'mary sue' dressed up like a 'karen', and i think that's pretty much spot on in terms of how she is portrayed in every episode, every time she comes close to showing vulnerability, it's quickly changed into her doing something 'strong'/'brave' and somehow all that preamble beforehand is made moot and irrelevant, it's mind boggling really.

  2. #7862
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    That's not the argument at stake. The claim being made is that what we see as flaws, the creators do not see as flaws. The evidence being put forward for that claim is that there's no development over the first season, and that is not sufficient evidence for that claim.
    Sure there is.. all you need to do is watch the first season. Speculation on future does not affect talks of development now. We are talking about the season as a standalone product, otherwise you can hide behind a 'you can't review/criticize the series because it's not all out yet', for anything and everything, which is quite a bogus excuse.

    Even slow burn character development like we see in Breaking Bad or Andor all has characters being consistent in who they are, and whatever character growth we see is carefully plotted in the subtext. Here, there is no clear subtext at all, because all character development is immediately being resolved as it happens, and utterly reverted with other future scenes. There is no consistency to properly see any meaningful change.

    And how the future seasons may answer that has no bearing to the way season one presents these characters. None at all. I don't look at seasons 2+ of Breaking Bad to define Walt's character journey through the first season of Breaking Bad.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    My best guess is they want us to be so empathetic to Galadriel that we don’t notice how much the rest of the story is warped around her character.
    I feel this way as well, with a big asterisk that the showrunners/writers have no real clue how to execute on their story.

    I think someone linked a youtuber breaking this down and came down to the conclusion that the writers are too concerned with checking boxes over writing believable characters, and that's exactly how I feel this story unfolded. Everything was acted upon for the sake of the plot rather than a natural progression of characters making decisions that move a plot forward.

    * We need Galadriel in Numenor, and build a relation to Elendil and Tar Miriel

    - okay, lets send her to Valinor and have her jump off the ship snd get rescued by Elendil

    * We need Galadriel to uncover Sauron's Mark plot

    - okay we will have the information she needs in Numenor and grant her access to the archives where she discovers the meaning behind the mark

    * We need to show some tension between the Numenoreans and Elves to hint at Pharazon taking power and driving their downfall

    - Okay well the Numenoreans get attacked by Halbrand and blame Galadriel because... Reasons......
    Last edited by Triceron; 2022-11-20 at 06:01 PM.

  3. #7863
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    It's crystal clear that the showrunners had two conflicting notions in mind that warped the whole show:

    Notion 1: Galadriel is the most powerful leader on the show
    Notion 2: Galadriel is being manipulated by Sauron and is too caught up with revenge
    Well, first of all those "notions" aren't conflicting. Powerful leaders can still be manipulated.

    Secondly, at no point is she even depicted as "the most powerful leader". Capable warrior? Yes, but effective leader? No, not at this point. In the very first episode she loses command of her own soldiers and is forced to abandon her expedition. She's not on equal footing to Gil-Galad. When in Numenor she's quickly put in her place and has to do a lot of convincing to get the queen-regent on board with her plans.

    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    There's also item three - the showrunners view everything on the show through Galadriel's lens, so the entire story reads like someone writing fan fiction about themselves, where every single person is 100% focused on Galadriel, whether for credit or blame.
    It's statements like these that really make me wonder if you even watched the show. Yes, most of the story lines end up being interconnected, but Galadriel isn't the focal point of the Durin/Elrond/Mithril story or the Arondir/Adar/Southlands story (and certainly not the Harfoot one). Even the Numenorean story line has parts that have almost nothing to do with Galadriel.

    My guess is you just have a very vivid imagination if you even managed to conjure up a scene in your mind where all the characters pledge themselves to Galadriel (because that definitely didn't happen in the actual show).

  4. #7864
    The Unstoppable Force Syegfryed's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Darkshore, Killing Living and Dead elves
    Posts
    20,387
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    That's not how proof works. YOU made the claim. YOU need to prove it. "Lmao prove it's not!" is not how proper arguments function. If you're not interested in a proper argument, that's fine - we can just all have a round of your "lmaos", agree that you just want us to acknowledge you're a bro and that it's cool to shit on the show runners for whatever reason good or bad justified or not, and move on.
    It was being proven, you just don't accept it/its not enough for you, this is fallacy by itself.

    Proper arguments were given, no just by me, you are just deflecting because you have no way to argue against that, because it's the truth

    who is "us"? you are pretty much minority in this stance.

    It was cool to shit on the show runners before, because their colossal failure, but this is not the case here, so nice strawman

  5. #7865
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    It was being proven, you just don't accept it/its not enough for you, this is fallacy by itself.
    Saying "you are not providing sufficient evidence" is not a fallacy, it's the elementary basis of argument.

    As I said - if you don't want to justify yourself, that's cool. Your argument isn't convincing, but nothing says you need to be convincing. You can make bad arguments all day long, and no one can stop you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Proper arguments were given, no just by me, you are just deflecting because you have no way to argue against that, because it's the truth
    "It's true, you just don't want to admit it, and I don't have to demonstrate this or prove this or anything!"

    So I guess we know where we stand with you. Moving on.

  6. #7866
    The Unstoppable Force Syegfryed's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Darkshore, Killing Living and Dead elves
    Posts
    20,387
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    Saying "you are not providing sufficient evidence" is not a fallacy, it's the elementary basis of argument.
    You think there is no sufficient evidence... how do you quantify that? those evidence seems sufficient enough for other people, so, this may be a "you" problem, and not that the evidence are not sufficient.
    As I said - if you don't want to justify yourself, that's cool. Your argument isn't convincing, but nothing says you need to be convincing. You can make bad arguments all day long, and no one can stop you.
    Again, i already did, and i already give my arguments, that you just deflect to attack me instead.

    "It's true, you just don't want to admit it, and I don't have to demonstrate this or prove this or anything!"

    So I guess we know where we stand with you. Moving on.
    Again, it was already demonstrated, you just didn't like it, or, if i remember well, you said one entire season with eighth plus hours was not enough just because its supposed to have more than one season

    But keep thinking you are on the logical side and move on.

  7. #7867
    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    are you naturally this dense or just acting stupid online to be edgy?
    For the general watcher, of course it was fine. That’s what the guy before me was talking about. Dense.
    DRAGONFLIGHT BETA CLUB

  8. #7868
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    This does not seem like its the case with their interviews, how they talk about her, yada yada. It seems they genuinely think she is a good character.

    Well, they also think she show was good, so, they are either lying or just need help
    The only one that needs help is yourself, because most ppl do think the show is good, that simple fact is backed up by all the data available, your opinion on the matter is not a fact, you need to accept the fact you have no authority on what constitutes as good or not, the show is good regardless of what your feelings are towards it.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  9. #7869
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    the show is good regardless of what your feelings are towards it
    You don't get to claim that your definition of good is a universal truth. Some might think a TV show is good purely because the special effects are cool and the lead character is hot. Others might think a show is good due to the writing, direction, casting and quality of the acting. On those latter qualities I think Rings of Power fails and is easily bested by Better Call Saul, which in my view is a much better show and cost much less to make.

  10. #7870
    The Unstoppable Force rhorle's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    20,285
    There are some new behind the scenes videos for each episode. Accessed via x-ray. A trailer can be watched here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBQ-LVQFd2I

    X-Ray’s behind-the-scenes content invites audiences to take a close, personal look at Season One’s production, allowing fans to discover how the series meticulously brought J.R.R. Tolkien’s Middle-earth to life in all of its splendor. These “making of” pieces, each corresponding to one of the first season’s eight episodes, provide a thrilling deep dive into the series, with exclusive access, behind-the-scenes footage, and interviews with the cast, showrunners, executive producers, directors, and production team.

    “The Making of The Rings of Power” gives fans a special inside look at the creation of the unique realms that make up Middle-earth, including Númenor and Khazad-dûm, both shown on screen at the heights of their glory for the first time. These segments also reveal exciting details about the production design, set decoration, costumes, makeup, visual and special effects, stunts, sword fights, horseback riding, and so much more of the intricate preparation involved in creating this very special world.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  11. #7871
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    There are some new behind the scenes videos for each episode. Accessed via x-ray. A trailer can be watched here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBQ-LVQFd2I
    Do they talk about the slow motion horse riding scene?

  12. #7872
    Titan Orby's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Under the stars
    Posts
    13,114
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    There are some new behind the scenes videos for each episode. Accessed via x-ray. A trailer can be watched here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBQ-LVQFd2I
    I need a behind the scenes on set design It was one of my favourite behind the scenes stuff with the origional trilogy, I love stuff like that as someoen who has worked in that area myself
    I love Warcraft, I dislike WoW

    Unsubbed since January 2021, now a Warcraft fan from a distance

  13. #7873
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkAmbient View Post
    You don't get to claim that your definition of good is a universal truth. Some might think a TV show is good purely because the special effects are cool and the lead character is hot. Others might think a show is good due to the writing, direction, casting and quality of the acting. On those latter qualities I think Rings of Power fails and is easily bested by Better Call Saul, which in my view is a much better show and cost much less to make.
    The simple fact is most viewers who watched the show liked it, that is proof the show is good that is not something you can deny, its not just me claiming its a good show, all the data available proves the show is good and the show has performed far better than most other shows available in such a short time, the only ones who hate it are ppl who generally hate most things and are just looking to whine, case and point the usual suspects in this thread who do the same in several threads.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  14. #7874
    Herald of the Titans rogoth's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    in the land of killer unicrons
    Posts
    2,524
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    The simple fact is most viewers who watched the show liked it, that is proof the show is good that is not something you can deny, its not just me claiming its a good show, all the data available proves the show is good and the show has performed far better than most other shows available in such a short time, the only ones who hate it are ppl who generally hate most things and are just looking to whine, case and point the usual suspects in this thread who do the same in several threads.
    no they didn't, the show lost more viewers than watched it in total, just let that sink in, it lost so many people from the first episode airing than stuck around to watch the remaining episodes COMBINED, furthermore, a week after the season finale the show can't even stay in the top 10 most viewed shows listings, meaning that people hated it when it was airing, and nobody has bothered to go back and rewatch it because of how bad it is, as shown by all of the relevant data, but once again you make some asinine claim because you believe it to be right, while all available data says the opposite, honestly you're an embarrassment both you and Adamas with your pathetic sycophantism.

  15. #7875
    The Unstoppable Force rhorle's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    20,285
    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    no they didn't, the show lost more viewers than watched it in total, just let that sink in, it lost so many people from the first episode airing than stuck around to watch the remaining episodes COMBINED
    The show didn't lose a large number of viewers until after the season finale. The lowest it got during the season was 966. It then got up to nearly the same as the first two episodes for the season finale. This is using Nielsen numbers which is the most reliable number we've had. It is by the way still in the top 10 "original" category. 5th place to be exact. The overall includes acquired and movie. So it looks like Rings of Power would be 12th on the overall. It certainly fell off a cliff. A lot of shows do regardless of quality.

    The only numbers I couldn't find were for the week of episode 3. Those numbers from Nielsen don't match up with your claims. Do you have a link to other verified viewership trackers?

    Episode 1/2- 1,235
    Episode 3-
    Episode 4- 988
    Episode 5- 977
    Episode 6- 966
    Episode 7- 988
    Episode 8 -1,137
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  16. #7876
    https://twitter.com/LiquidGuild/stat...VeVfQHWq1ONDBA

    I found where all the budget from RoP went.

  17. #7877
    The Unstoppable Force Syegfryed's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Darkshore, Killing Living and Dead elves
    Posts
    20,387
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    The only one that needs help is yourself, because most ppl do think the show is good, that simple fact is backed up by all the data available, your opinion on the matter is not a fact, you need to accept the fact you have no authority on what constitutes as good or not, the show is good regardless of what your feelings are towards it.
    The only one that needs help is yourself, because most ppl do think the show is garbage that simple fact is backed up by all the data available, your opinion on the matter is not a fact, you need to accept the fact you have no authority on what constitutes as good or not, the show is bad regardless of what your feelings are towards it

    Also, the data:


    People think is shit, even if Amazon is boosting it

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Do they talk about the slow motion horse riding scene?
    I rly want to know their meticulous missed how many elves where on a cave, it is 7, it is 8, it is 9? mystery box!
    Last edited by Syegfryed; 2022-11-22 at 05:53 AM.

  18. #7878
    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    no they didn't, the show lost more viewers than watched it in total, just let that sink in, it lost so many people from the first episode airing than stuck around to watch the remaining episodes COMBINED, furthermore, a week after the season finale the show can't even stay in the top 10 most viewed shows listings, meaning that people hated it when it was airing, and nobody has bothered to go back and rewatch it because of how bad it is, as shown by all of the relevant data, but once again you make some asinine claim because you believe it to be right, while all available data says the opposite, honestly you're an embarrassment both you and Adamas with your pathetic sycophantism.
    The show has had 100 million viewers so far and it will increase even further, you have no evidence supporting anything you say since all the data proves you to be in the wrong as usual.

    The simple reality is more ppl like the show than dont like it, thats a fact you have yet to just accept because you cant face reality.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    The only one that needs help is yourself, because most ppl do think the show is garbage that simple fact is backed up by all the data available, your opinion on the matter is not a fact, you need to accept the fact you have no authority on what constitutes as good or not, the show is bad regardless



    I rly want to know their meticulous missed how many elves where on a cave, it is 7, it is 8, it is 9? mystery box!
    Most ppl dont think its bad, why does it have 100 million viewers, rotten tomatos does not help your case in the slightest lol, if you think that site is even remotely usuable then you really need some help, noone at all puts any stock into what RT has so you using it to back you up makes you lose even more credibility. If the show was bad is wouldnt have over 100 million viewers so far would it, the shows popularity spiked even further after the finale because these days ppl wait until a whole season is out to watch things now.

    The ppl who moan most are the most vocal so they should be ignored because thier views are tainted.

    You both have lost the argument over and over again because you are not who decides if a show is actually bad or not.

    Both you arguments come down to one thing your own opinion and thats it.
    Last edited by kenn9530; 2022-11-22 at 08:49 AM.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  19. #7879
    The simple reality is if Amazon is considering replacing the showrunners or reducing the their decision making on the show then it's because Amazon sees that something is very wrong.

  20. #7880
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    The simple reality is if Amazon is considering replacing the showrunners or reducing the their decision making on the show then it's because Amazon sees that something is very wrong.
    Wait, did that happen?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    The show has had 100 million viewers so far and it will increase even further, you have no evidence supporting anything you say since all the data proves you to be in the wrong as usual.

    The simple reality is more ppl like the show than dont like it, thats a fact you have yet to just accept because you cant face reality.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Most ppl dont think its bad, why does it have 100 million viewers, rotten tomatos does not help your case in the slightest lol, if you think that site is even remotely usuable then you really need some help, noone at all puts any stock into what RT has so you using it to back you up makes you lose even more credibility. If the show was bad is wouldnt have over 100 million viewers so far would it, the shows popularity spiked even further after the finale because these days ppl wait until a whole season is out to watch things now.

    The ppl who moan most are the most vocal so they should be ignored because thier views are tainted.

    You both have lost the argument over and over again because you are not who decides if a show is actually bad or not.

    Both you arguments come down to one thing your own opinion and thats it.
    Just because 100 million watched it doesn't mean 100 million enjoyed it. So far it has been recieved with mixed reviews. Amazon Prime has over 200 million subscribers, so out of their own audience, 50% were interested. This gives us 0 information on how many people the show actually attracted enough to bother subbing to prime.

    Also, more people like the show than don't like it is a rather big assumption on your part. You have nothing backing your claims, other than your opinion, dude.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •