Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[Syegfryed]

Didn't a large group of elves take an oath of vengeance and chase Melkor to middle-earth?

Because you know, he stole the silmarilions and destroyed the trees? what comparison

Luthien was still an elf, regardless of her lineage, and took on Sauron. Just as an elf took on Melkor/Morgoth. It seems Tolkien made sure his elves had no issue with fighting above their level.

And where exactly state she defeat Sauron, and alone at that? i know she and Beren took one of the silmarilions from morgoth crown, but nothing about she defeating sauron.

You have to understand that there is no 'regardless of lineage" if they were born directly from the maiar, basically lesser gods of the setting, they are basically demigods without their blood being diminished, far superior to other elves, is like comparing humans with the blood of numenor to normal humans.

[SpaghettiMonk]

Because you know, he stole the silmarilions and destroyed the trees? what comparison



And where exactly state she defeat Sauron, and alone at that? i know she and Beren took one of the silmarilions from morgoth crown, but nothing about she defeating sauron.

You have to understand that there is no 'regardless of lineage" if they were born directly from the maiar, basically lesser gods of the setting, they are basically demigods without their blood being diminished, far superior to other elves, is like comparing humans with the blood of numenor to normal humans.

Luthien was a half elf half maiar, and she plus Huan the Hound of Valinor (kind of like one of the Eagles) subdue Sauron during the quest for the Silmaril.

There are also numerous examples of elves fighting Balrogs - Ecthelion of the Fountain and Glorfindel both kill a Balrog (and die in the process). Fingon is killed by Balrogs, as is Feanor. Balrogs are Maiar. But you're right, it's never reckless - those are all obviously parts of battles.

Fingolfin and Feanor were both kind of driven battle mad - Fingolfin because they were losing, and Feanor because they were winning - and charged off alone to their deaths.

[rhorle]

You have to understand that there is no 'regardless of lineage" if they were born directly from the maiar, basically lesser gods of the setting, they are basically demigods without their blood being diminished, far superior to other elves, is like comparing humans with the blood of numenor to normal humans.

Galadriel is herself far superior to other elves. The appendix even calls her the greatest of elven women.It is amusing that you acknowledge that some elves are more powerful in one regard but have in the past denied it in others. Just like you think revenge is a foreign concept to Elves despite a large group making an oath about it. Even if we ignore Tolkien lore Rings of Power sets up revenge as the reason why they went to war with Morgoth. Revenge for destroying the "light of their home" (the trees).

[bledgor]

I still enjoy how people conflate being great with being some amazing warrior in combat. They forgot that greatness can come from other things, like being knowledgeable, from being wise, or being a competent/capable leader. Galadriel was know for all those traits, she wasn't know as being a warrior that could best the greatest foes in combat.

[rhorle]

I still enjoy how people conflate being great with being some amazing warrior in combat. They forgot that greatness can come from other things, like being knowledgeable, from being wise, or being a competent/capable leader. Galadriel was know for all those traits, she wasn't know as being a warrior that could best the greatest foes in combat.

Tolkien wrote her to be a warrior and not one without skill. Are you saying she forgot all of that by the second age? Or that she never learned to fight better over thousands of years?

Nature of Middle-Earth: “"Account of Galadriel’s quarrel with the sons of Fëanor at sack of Alqualondë. How she fought...”

Unfinished Tales: “she... fought heroically”

Morgoth’s Ring: “Marginal note against the passage describing the involvement of the second host in the fighting: 'Finrod and Galadriel (whose husband was of the Teleri) fought against Feanor in defence of Alqualonde.”

People’s of Middle-Earth: “Even after the merciless assault upon the Teleri and the rape of their ships, though she fought fiercely against Feanor in defence of her mother's kin, she did not turn back. Her pride was unwilling to return, a defeated suppliant for pardon; but now she burned with desire to follow Feanor with her anger to whatever lands he might come, and to thwart him in all ways that she could."

[loras]

You literally have lore saying what happens to then

the two you mention are the ones who return to middle earth, you want to claim i don't know the lore but you know shit.



It literally happened more than once.


Yes there is, only after the fall of numenor that they stop doing it so freely.


If Galadriel can swim to the other continent the ships can do it m8



That is something made up from the show, only other races need permission, some elves could not do it - a temporary ban - because the doom of the noldor, or some shenanigan like that, but GUESS WHAT, that does not happen in the show, the noldor does not slaughter the Telari to get their ships and travel to middle earth



And she just jump to swim 7000 miles for several months

Is she retarded or just suicidal, you tell me. No, in fact, you don't need to, every time you try to explain you make things worse

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It was much, much worse, in every aspect you can imagine

That's impressive, considering how poor the expectations were.
A pity, i had considered watching it.

[SpaghettiMonk]

That's impressive, considering how poor the expectations were.
A pity, i had considered watching it.

Depends - do you like fan fiction where Sauron basically proposes to Galadriel and offers to let her rule with him, and she like, doesn't immediately reject him?

[loras]

Depends - do you like fan fiction where Sauron basically proposes to Galadriel and offers to let her rule with him, and she like, doesn't immediately reject him?

Eh, honestly that just sounds weird.
A really good writer might be able to make it work i guess?
But honestly that sounds like early internet fanfictionsite stuff.

Perhaps more importantly: It doesn't make me want to check it out.

[kenn9530]

snip

As it stands in Rings of Power we know no elves that have be reincarnated, you also dont know how long they remain spirits until the valar actually build a body so at this point in history there is no proof any elves have been reincarnated or even they have knowledge they even get reincarnated when they die.

She couldnt swim back to middle earth, she was rescued and brought to numenor the closest land to the crossing point to valinor, she knew numenor was pretty close so the plan was obviously to get to numenor and get a boat. Its a huge deal heading back to valinor not just a normal occurance, you dont even know the basics of the lore or basics in tv shows.

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Again, with regards to the elves, you made all of this up. They elves didn't want to go back - they are there because they chose not to. There's nothing anywhere about elves getting to go back for "exceptional service" or "completing a long mission." That's your headcanon. The elves can go back at any time. Tolkien wavered on Galadriel and some of the other leaders and whether they were banned from returning due to their crimes (there are several versions of this story), but everyone else can go at any time. In fact, most are already gone.

Its not made up, every case of going back to valinor is under special circumstances, you cant provide one instance of just normal travel to valinor, the elves dont want to be in middle earth they want to be in valinor, they only remain in middle earth to complete certain tasks that the valar want done.

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snip

Your are not one to decide if its poor story telling or not, because you cant prove it otherwise, the show clearly shows the elves to be exhausted and stuggling under the extreme cold weather conditions, elves are not just immune to all elements just because you want them to be, there is nothing to explain a troll is a powerful enemy stronger than several normal elves, trolls are very well know to be a formidable enemy even veteran soldiers have issues with, no explainations are needed, if you cant come to some basic conclusions yourself you shouldnt watch shows you lack understanding of.

[Syegfryed]

Galadriel is herself far superior to other elves. The appendix even calls her the greatest of elven women.It is amusing that you acknowledge that some elves are more powerful in one regard but have in the past denied it in others.

Like @bledgor said, being the greatest doesn't you are the strongest or the most powerful, that is simple hedcanon, Galadriel is not, as far i know the daughter of Maiar and was not getting help from a hound of valinor

Just like you think revenge is a foreign concept to Elves despite a large group making an oath about it.

I never said it was a foreign concept, thats a lie, i said there is no point in revenge for someone who is live or, who is going to be alive eventually, especially when you give two shits bout your other two brothers nd your missing husband.

Even if we ignore Tolkien lore

Ah yes, the show does that lot

[Triceron]

Your are not one to decide if its poor story telling or not,

Yes I am, because that value is subjective, lol.

[kenn9530]

Yes I am, because that value is subjective.

Subjective doesnt mean you are right about something, your personal tastes are irrelevant of the quality of something.

[Triceron]

Subjective doesnt mean you are right about something, your personal tastes are irrelevant of the quality of something.

It means it is my opinion and I wouldn't be wrong for it just because you happen to disagree.

I'm not the one trying to silence other people's opinions here buddy. Who the fuck cares if it's right or wrong?

I think the storywriting is poor for the reasons I outline. If you disagree then say so and outline your points, otherwise this 'right' and 'wrong' nonsense goes nowhere. You aren't an authority to say it isn't poor writing either. No one is. It is purely subjectively valued.

But hey, this os my last word on this since a mod literally gave a warning about this 'what is good' shit a few pages back (412).

[rhorle]

Like @bledgor said, being the greatest doesn't you are the strongest or the most powerful, that is simple hedcanon, Galadriel is not, as far i know the daughter of Maiar and was not getting help from a hound of valinor

"Being brilliant in mind and swift in action she had early absorbed all of what she was capable of the teaching which the Valar thought fit to give the Eldar, and she felt confined in the tutelage of Aman."

Except for fighting, right? Where does Tolkien say she is not able to fight well? He doesn't.

The entire point of them going to middle earth was to seek revenge on Morgoth and the dark forces. Her brothers death was just fuel for that fire. Just because he might be alive in Valinor at some point doesn't mean she can't have feelings because of his death. There is nothing to say that she doesn't care for husband or other family. We learn that her husband was lost in action so that likely contributed to her zealous quest.

Do her other brothers appear in the appendixes? The Tolkien estate could have restricted mention of them.

[Syegfryed]

"Being brilliant in mind and swift in action she had early absorbed all of what she was capable of the teaching which the Valar thought fit to give the Eldar, and she felt confined in the tutelage of Aman."

Except for fighting, right?

Where is saying she was the most powerful elf ? nowhere

Where does Tolkien say she is not able to fight well? He doesn't.

there is a gigantic fucking difference between being able to fight well and being the most powerful elf alive who can take a maiar head on.

Thats just a lame strawman

The entire point of them going to middle earth was to seek revenge on Morgoth and the dark forces

Did they went because Morgoh killed someone or because something else?

There is nothing to say that she doesn't care for husband or other family.

Except she giving literally zero fucks about then

We learn that her husband was lost in action so that likely contributed to her zealous quest.

THEN WHY

THE FUCK

SHE IS NOT SEARCHING FOR HIM

INSTEAD, she is trying to get revenge, for someone who is alive, or is going to be alive eventually, while her husband is missing, this is completely obnoxious

Do her other brothers appear in the appendixes? The Tolkien estate could have restricted mention of them.

bs

[rhorle]

Where is saying she was the most powerful elf ? nowhere

You are aware that was a different quote, right? She is called the greatest of elven women in a different quote from a different part of Tolkien's work.

Revenge is revenge. You making a difference for "revenge you like" versus "revenge you don't like" is silly. We don't know that she gives zero about her husband. We haven't had an in-depth reasoning given for all of what motivates her quest. It started out being fueled by the death of her brother but could very well have morphed into finding what happened to her husband. We don't know if she searched for him or not.

Her husband will also be alive eventually if he is dead, right? So you shouldn't think it is a big deal that she doesn't care if she also shouldn't care about her brother, right? Or are you just selectively applying when these arguments apply based on if you like or dislike something?

It also is not BS if the show did not have the rights to the names of the other brothers. I'm not sure why you don't understand that if the estate says they can't use something they can't use it. It really isn't a hard concept to grasp yet seems to be something so many struggle with.

[Shadowferal]

INSTEAD, she is trying to get revenge, for someone who is alive, or is going to be alive eventually, while her husband is missing, this is completely obnoxious bs

You're arguing against stupidity (laudable), with someone who defends the stupidity with his own illogic. Futile.
When Amazon sidelines the showrunners, either by reducing their influence or outright dismissal, the likes of rhorle and kenn will refuse to see it as any refutation for their arguments...even if the show becomes completely revamped with a new cast and and a far closer adherence to the idea of "Tolkienesque," and this season gets dumped. The "rholes and kenns" will proudly say "I told you so."
Illogical? Yep.
But that's their bag.

[rhorle]

But that's their bag.

You do realize that I've said the show is flawed and could be better, right? You and others have a habit of making it all or nothing when it comes to shows. If you don't hate everything and support everything others hate you are somehow blindly supporting everything about the show. It is also amusing how much I live in your head rent free just because we have different opinions on things. You and others can't stop talking about me even though you claim to "ignore" me. Lmao.

[Syegfryed]

You are aware that was a different quote, right? She is called the greatest of elven women in a different quote from a different part of Tolkien's work.

Powerful =/= Greatest

Revenge is revenge. You making a difference for "revenge you like" versus "revenge you don't like" is silly.

The only silly thing is pretend they are not different.

We don't know that she gives zero about her husband.

We do, she literally don't give fuck about him, when someone you supposedly love goes missing YOU GO FIND THEM, instead, she is going for a pointless and nonsene revenge, of just one of her three brothers.

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You're arguing against stupidity (laudable), with someone who defends the stupidity with his own illogic. Futile.
When Amazon sidelines the showrunners, either by reducing their influence or outright dismissal, the likes of rhorle and kenn will refuse to see it as any refutation for their arguments...even if the show becomes completely revamped with a new cast and and a far closer adherence to the idea of "Tolkienesque," and this season gets dumped. The "rholes and kenns" will proudly say "I told you so."
Illogical? Yep.
But that's their bag.

Yeah, you see how they refute themselves with their own bs, the more you try to explain, more dumb the show become

[rhorle]

We do, she literally don't give fuck about him, when someone you supposedly love goes missing YOU GO FIND THEM, instead, she is going for a pointless and nonsene revenge, of just one of her three brothers.

Why can't both be done at the same time? How do you know she never looked? There are a lot of things that take place off screen but you are so absolutely sure they have never happened in the story. Strange, right? We don't know because it hasn't been stated or shown.