Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[kenn9530]

Holy crap dude… do you live in an alternate universe? LOTR was so popular in the 60s that it made it into two Led Zeppelin songs and Gandalf was the basis for a Black Sabbath song. In 1975 Rush released a song called “Rivendell”. Leonard Nimoy released “The Ballad of Bilbo Baggins” in 1968. The Beatles toyed with making an adaptation.

It was an INCREDIBLY famous book before 2001.

https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/...nd-the-hippies

The facts are more books sold around the first films release than all previous year combined, you must have low standards on whats popular.

[SpaghettiMonk]

Is it possible to get a different thread for Rhorle and Kenn so that we can discuss this stuff in peace?

[rhorle]

Holy crap dude… do you live in an alternate universe? LOTR was so popular in the 60s that it made it into two Led Zeppelin songs and Gandalf was the basis for a Black Sabbath song. In 1975 Rush released a song called “Rivendell”. Leonard Nimoy released “The Ballad of Bilbo Baggins” in 1968. The Beatles toyed with making an adaptation.

Its popularity plateaued after the counter culture movement. It was popular but it wasn't at the forefront anymore. The movies brought it back to the forefront and really cemented it into the "modern" culture. With a renewed interest in licensing and deals along with the Amazon and WB projects it might never leave. At least in our life time.

[Koriani]

My origional post i said most of its popularity came from after the films release, so my statement is correct isnt it, since more books sold after the films than before hand, it may of done decent for a book but its actual popularity came from the films, before it was popular for a niche fanbase but not a widely known series until the films otherwise it would of sold more than 25 million by the films release.

Ok so here's the original site I gave you as proof that the LOTR/Hobbit books were popular before the films release.

https://wordsrated.com/lord-of-the-rings-stats/

I found ONE official statement about the book sales BEFORE and AFTER the movies - guess what - sold more (still) before the movies. Here you go, Kenn.
100 million BEFORE movie, 50 million more since. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-a...26402420070416

"Brawn estimates that 150 million copies of “The Lord of the Rings” have been sold worldwide, 50 million of those since Jackson’s films were released from 2001, plus 50 million copies of other Tolkien works."

And on the wikki site for the books: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lord_of_the_Rings

We have statements such like:

"The first Ballantine paperback edition was printed in October that year, selling a quarter of a million copies within ten months. On 4 September 1966, the novel debuted on The New York Times's Paperback Bestsellers list as number three, and was number one by 4 December, a position it held for eight weeks.[68] "

Look, best selling in the 1960s!! Along with:

"In 1957, The Lord of the Rings was awarded the International Fantasy Award. Despite its numerous detractors, the publication of the Ace Books and Ballantine paperbacks helped The Lord of the Rings become immensely popular in the United States in the 1960s. The book has remained so ever since, ranking as one of the most popular works of fiction of the twentieth century, judged by both sales and reader surveys.[92] In the 2003 "Big Read" survey conducted in Britain by the BBC, The Lord of the Rings was found to be the "Nation's best-loved book". In similar 2004 polls both Germany[93] and Australia[94] chose The Lord of the Rings as their favourite book. In a 1999 poll of Amazon.com customers, The Lord of the Rings was judged to be their favourite "book of the millennium".[95] In 2019, the BBC News listed The Lord of the Rings on its list of the 100 most influential novels.[96]"

So huh, we have it being "Immensely popular" since the 1960s and "REMAINED SO EVER SINCE", and "most popular works of fiction in the 20th century" (Cutoff for that being 2000).

Also: "has had the distinction of remaining CONTIUOUSLY IN PRINT from its publication in 1969,"

Also: "The Lord of the Rings has had a profound and wide-ranging impact on popular culture, beginning with its publication in the 1950s, but especially during the 1960s and 1970s, when young people embraced it as a countercultural saga. .... "Rock bands of the 1970s were musically and lyrically inspired by the fantasy-embracing counter-culture of the time. The British rock band Led Zeppelin recorded several songs that contain explicit references to The Lord of the Rings, such as mentioning Gollum and Mordor in "Ramble On", the Misty Mountains in "Misty Mountain Hop", and Ringwraiths in "The Battle of Evermore"."

Yeah, so much for your "niche fanbase of a not-wildly known series".--Kenn

You don't have a "niche" book suddenly become a most influential BOOK of the entire last century, because of the movies made in 2000s. But I'm sure in Kenn's world, this is still him being right.

I don't know what faux-news source you get '25 million' before the movies, but you are wrong my dear. No where near to accurate. It sold 100 million BEFORE THE FILMS RELEASE.

The LOTR/Hobbit books have been wildly known and translated in multiple languages and NEVER STOPPED BEING IN PRINT for 30+ YEARS before Jackson ever made his movies. Yes, the movies have made it more popular, of course, and been discovered by new audiences, of course. But that does NOT translate to "niche" or "little known" in any way.

But I'm sure in Kenn's mind. It does.

And that's why no one really needs to attempt to engage him in serious discussion. He's just not living the same reality as the rest of us. Imagine, living in a world where LOTR didn't mean anything at all until 2000. How sad.

[Triceron]

My origional post i said most of its popularity came from after the films release, so my statement is correct isnt it, since more books sold after the films than before hand, it may of done decent for a book but its actual popularity came from the films, before it was popular for a niche fanbase but not a widely known series until the films otherwise it would of sold more than 25 million by the films release.

Do you have proof it was not widely known and a niche fanbase?

Cuz just because you never heard of it doesn't mean it's niche. I didn't hear of Harry Potter or Twilight until the movies came out for it, I still wouldn't say these were not popular series before the movies. The reason the movies are made was to capitalize on its popularity, and increase it exponentially.

[rhorle]

"Brawn estimates that 150 million copies of “The Lord of the Rings” have been sold worldwide, 50 million of those since Jackson’s films were released from 2001, plus 50 million copies of other Tolkien works."

Having a 3rd of your total sales sold in 6 years (2001 to 2007 the publication date of the article) indicates that the movies had a large boost to the popularity of the two books. 47 years to do 100 million. 6 years to do 50 million. While the poster might have problems with their approach the argument of the movies largely increasing the popularity of the movies is a sound one.

Just for perspective Harry Potter has sold over 500 million copies in 25 years. Even when factoring in The Hobbit it has still sold around double.

[Syegfryed]

Don't forget, Kenn also says LOTR wasn't a popular book series until the movies. These are his facts.

Straight up delusions, Lotr was one of, if not THE, most read book before the movies(excluding the bible ofc)

[rhorle]

Straight up delusions, Lotr was one of, if not THE, most read book before the movies(excluding the bible ofc)

It is impossible to prove how many times a book has been read but I doubt Lord of the Rings is the 1st ignoring holy books (the Bible and Qur'an are usually top 2). In the top 10? Sure. Don Quixote claims to have sold at least 500 million copies though I'm not sure how a book from the 1600's is accurately tracked.

[SpaghettiMonk]

Straight up delusions, Lotr was one of, if not THE, most read book before the movies(excluding the bible ofc)

The problem is that people are letting him gradually move the goalposts - he did start out by saying it was not that popular and "niche", now he's moved to "more books sold after the movies than before" because he's by now realized his first argument is utterly untenable so it's just time to distract you with a different one.

Stick to the first argument and don't let the discussion get sidetracked - Kenn said that Lord of the Rings, one of the most popular books in the 20th century, was never popular until the movies. A ridiculous statement that is utterly indefensible (like most of his lore posts). The rest that he's saying now is just a smokescreen to distract us from that.

[BeepBoo]

If more ppl like something than hate it that makes it good

Oh, you mean an Ad Populum fallacy?

No. Just because a lot of people like something doesn't mean it is "objectively good." You just don't understand what objectivity is.

[kenn9530]

Straight up delusions, Lotr was one of, if not THE, most read book before the movies(excluding the bible ofc)

It sold less than 25 million copies before the films so you are having delusions, 125 million plus is because of the films.

- - - Updated - - -

snip.

It seems you are unable to read, this debunks all your information since there is no article that actually states pre film sales, you are just talking BS as usual and making an assumption without relevant information since all data is from after the first films release.

https://web.archive.org/web/20181120...249-story.html

Clay Harper remembers the first time he saw a screening of the New Line Cinema adaptation of J.R.R. Tolkien's Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring. It was the late fall of 2001, and the first of the three Peter Jackson-directed Tolkien films was set to open Dec. 17.

"I was a basket case," Harper says. "I'd seen the trailer and clips, of course. The buzz was there. But still ... you just never know. I was hopeful, but I had my fingers crossed."

As a fan of Tolkien's epic saga for more than 25 years, he had a book lover's anxiety about seeing a favorite work through the eyes of someone else. Was New Zealand really going to look like Middle-Earth? Was Ian McKellan the best choice to play Gandalf? How much of the book had been cut?

As publisher Houghton Mifflin's Tolkien projects director, Harper also had a lot on the line professionally. Houghton Mifflin, the official U.S. publisher of Tolkien's work for more than 60 years, had paid a hefty sum to acquire the rights to the movie tie-in volumes. What if the film trilogy was a disaster? Would they lose an entire generation of potential readers?

"Just in case, we put the new editions out early before the movie so we could sell as many copies as possible," he says. "And to New Line's great credit, they did a great job of encouraging people to read Tolkien."

As it turned out, they also had made a great movie. And it paid off for Houghton Mifflin.

"In the history of the company, there have only been two million-copy best sellers," Harper says. "One was Tolkien's The Silmarillion in 1977, and the other was The Lord of the Rings in 2001."

What has happened since this has been "phenomenal," he says. "Because the movies come out late in the year, the sales spill over into the next. The books just keep selling, and we're not done yet."

The latest addition -- and edition -- to the Tolkien publishing program (dozens of volumes by Tolkien, about Tolkien, about the movies, etc., plus readers guides, calendars and gift books) is a $20 collectible one-volume paperback. The cover features the Dark Lord Sauron's gloved hand with an embossed ring -- as in the "One Ring to rule them all/ One Ring to find them, /One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them" legend, which appears in its entirety on a color frontispiece. The deluxe edition also has flaps that fold out to show color versions of the original maps of Middle-Earth.

"These maps have been in the hardcover, but we wanted to do something special for the final film," Harper says. "The one-volume movie tie-in is the cornerstone of the Tolkien publishing program."

More than 2 million copies of the one-volume trade paperback have been sold in the United States the past three years. More than 25 million Tolkien-related books have been sold.

"That's just in the U.S.," Harper says. "Tolkien has been a cultural phenomenon for years. The Lord of the Rings has sold 50 million copies worldwide. But there's been nothing like the audience growth we've experienced coinciding with the new movies. I know of no other publishing experience like it."


Peter Jackson

[SpaghettiMonk]

In responding to the nonsense, I starting doing some searches from the appendix of the Lord of the Rings. I think it's if anything been underestimated how handicapped they are by making this entire series based on like 10-20 pages of appendices. People thought the Hobbit had trouble because it was making 10 hours of movie based on one short book. This is a laughably larger undertaking, and it's also kind of laughable how the rights seem to work.

For example, the name "Finrod" does appear in the appendices, and it seems that because he appears, they can make up anything they want about him and put it in the show. Other prominent names like "Annatar" and "Fingolfin" don't exist anywhere, so they can't be used.

There's a huge story here that we haven't been told about how the rights are actually working. Like, if the Tolkien estate actually "approved" of this series, it's clear that the writers wouldn't have been so restricted. What I would guess is that Amazon realized that the original lord of the rings contained a lot of info about other eras and characters, and decided to go whole hog on interpreting those rights as widely as possible to make another series. The Tolkien estate was involved purely in order to negotiate what was and wasn't allowed, and then this travesty went forward.

[rhorle]

Like, if the Tolkien estate actually "approved" of this series, it's clear that the writers wouldn't have been so restricted.

The Tolkien Estate has a seat on the creative table and veto power if things get to close to things they have deemed forbidden or things the rights do not cover. It has been widely reported that the Estate was okay with reinvention as long as it kept the spirit of Tolkien's work.

[bledgor]

You guys need to stop responding to kenn, he is trolling, I have already posted a soruce for the books selling more than the bullshit he is shilling, not to mention the sheer amount of things LotR inspiried, including ALL of modern fantasy, he is not worth your time.

[kenn9530]

You guys need to stop responding to kenn, he is trolling, I have already posted a soruce for the books selling more than the bullshit he is shilling, not to mention the sheer amount of things LotR inspiried, including ALL of modern fantasy, he is not worth your time.

Your source never stated when the sales actually happened, the one i just provided proves you wrong with no room for any doubt, try again with your incorrect information.

You already lost the argument about the sales numbers.

[SpaghettiMonk]

You guys need to stop responding to kenn, he is trolling, I have already posted a soruce for the books selling more than the bullshit he is shilling, not to mention the sheer amount of things LotR inspiried, including ALL of modern fantasy, he is not worth your time.

Agreed. Unfortunately some of the threads on this site end up getting dominated by a single troll just messing with the entire conversation. This thread has two - Rhorle and Kenn.

[rhorle]

Agreed. Unfortunately some of the threads on this site end up getting dominated by a single troll just messing with the entire conversation. This thread has two - Rhorle and Kenn.

The only one messing with the entire conversation here is yourself. You keep going off-topic to talk about certain posters. Just put both of us on ignore and you won't have worry about seeing our posts.

[MiiiMiii]

I think the story in this show is way too conveluted and hard to follow. I enjoyed the opening sequence with the expedition to find the eye. Then they jumput to a bunch of different characters talking about stuff I had no clue about.

I understand it's supposed to be a TV show that last a very long time, so the story has to be kinda long and complex.

I really think the show would benefit from the editors changing the storylines from this "let's check in on 6 different storylines in an episode" to just having 6 episodes that focus on 1 character at a time.

Too late for that I guess.

Not my cup of tea.

[Shadowferal]

Lord of the Rings actor Bernard Hill says ‘money-making’ Rings of Power is ‘not the real thing’

Starring in one of the most successful JRR Tolkien adaptations of all time does not automatically mean you will like what comes next – and Bernard Hill is proof of this.

The actor, who played King Theoden in Peter Jacksons’ trilogy (2001-03), has criticised Amazon Prime Video’s high-budget series, calling it “a money-making venture”.

Hill told Metro in a new interview: “I’m not interested in watching that or being in it.”

He added: “Good luck to them and all that stuff, but it’s not like the real thing.”

When asked if Jackson’s film series should have put an end to further Lord of the Rings adaptations, Hill, 77, replied: “Completely, yes.”

He even said Jackson was “pushing it” by turning The Hobbit into three films.

[Syegfryed]

Lord of the Rings actor Bernard Hill says ‘money-making’ Rings of Power is ‘not the real thing’

Starring in one of the most successful JRR Tolkien adaptations of all time does not automatically mean you will like what comes next – and Bernard Hill is proof of this.

The actor, who played King Theoden in Peter Jacksons’ trilogy (2001-03), has criticised Amazon Prime Video’s high-budget series, calling it “a money-making venture”.

Hill told Metro in a new interview: “I’m not interested in watching that or being in it.”

He added: “Good luck to them and all that stuff, but it’s not like the real thing.”

When asked if Jackson’s film series should have put an end to further Lord of the Rings adaptations, Hill, 77, replied: “Completely, yes.”

He even said Jackson was “pushing it” by turning The Hobbit into three films.

Lucid man, now he will be attacked by all the isms like the rest of the fans are.

And i still think this was just a money laundry show that backfired astronomically