Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[eschatological]

I was hoping you lot would get bored of this and this thread would wind down, but it hasn't. So consider this a warning: stay civil. Subjective taste is exactly that - subjective. Arguments of objective goodness of a piece of media outside of pointing to actual numbers/popularity is a bad faith argument. Even pointing to popularity is not an indication of goodness. It's a debate that has done nothing to further discussion of the show itself but only mired the thread in needless bitching from both ends about the nature of "what is good" and other such inane discussion. Please consider counting to 10 and asking yourself whether you actually need to continue this debate because - while it isn't against the rules of this forum - it's going nowhere and spiraling off into infinity.

[SpaghettiMonk]

https://gamerant.com/rings-of-power-...lkien-beliefs/

A minor point but it got me to rewatch the first 10 min of the series. Made me realize how silly a character Finrod is - "touch the darkness once more" and "A stone can't float cause word salad."

The author basically argues that most heroes in Tolkien have heroic deaths with meaning, and he's pretty much right. You have Fingolfin wounding Morgoth over and over, Finrod saving Beren (which helps him on his journey to get the Silmaril), Fingon and Feanor die in battle with multiple Balrogs. Turgon's death is mostly offscreen but in that battle the focus is on Glorfindel killing the Balrog (and dying in the process). Gil-Galad and Elendil die battling and eventually defeating Morgoth.

And as the author states, these epic deaths are usually a cause for mourning, not revenge quests - like Fingon's death was in the "Battle of Unnumbered Tears". Finrod's death has none of that - he dies in vain chasing Sauron, mostly off screen, in the least epic way possible.

Of course, the real issue here is the innate silliness of the rights battle messing with the whole series, where for some reason they're not allowed to use the history in the Silmarillion but it's ok to make up a completely alternate version that completely conflicts with it (and leaves out major, major details like the Curse of Mandos), and include weird things like Sauron carving a map of Mordor into Finrod's flesh. I mean, it's that and the showrunners' bizarre choice to make the entire story about Galadriel. This series could have (and should have) been written without mentioning Finrod at all - he's not remotely relevant to the Second Age, having died long before the end of the first.

[Xath]

You need to learn that most ppl that have watched the show like it plain and simple.

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You couldnt refute anything because you have nothing.

25 million ppl minimum watching a show it in it first weeks and throughout the whole season is to you considered bad, all the average ratings on the show are 7 or higher, you are obviously clueless on what is considered bad, the show was the number one show throughtout its release and the numbers will only continue to rise.

You have no say on whats a bad show or not because the facts simply dont support you.

A show being bad and you not liking it are 2 completely different things.

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The data is right in your face, takes 2 secs to check several review sites that proves the show is good, you have provided no data proving the show is bad because there is none.

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The show is rated pretty good and most ppl like the show that has watched it, ppl need to accept reality that more ppl enjoy the show than dont.

User reviews don't seem to show that

[kenn9530]

User reviews don't seem to show that

Even the user reviews shows more ppl like it than otherwise, IMBD is probably the site with the highest amount of reviews with nearly 300k and most are putting the show good or higher. RT barely has any user reviews barely even 15% of the reviews of other sites, so if you think one site gives you any credibility you are very mistaken, anything higher than a 6 rating is considered good, the show would have to be rated a 2-3 on average for anyone claiming its bad to be even remotely correct.

User reviews are mostly biased especially when it comes to something that has been a book, because fans will hate on something regardless of it being good or not, so a small amount of bad reviews here and there is not proof of the show being bad.

If a show is rated 7/10 does that not make the show good to more ppl than not, because thats how ratings work, you wouldnt get a 7/10 if it was as bad as you claim.

[rhorle]

User reviews don't seem to show that

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7631058...?ref_=tt_ov_rt

If you eliminate 10's and 1's, to remove potential bias, more appear to like the show then dislike it. 40.8% for 6-9 and 15.6% for 2-5.

[SpaghettiMonk]

Oh, and here's the best part of the "Get revenge for Finrod's death" storyline. Finrod is alive. He was reincarnated in Valinor before the defeat of Morgoth. And Galadriel should know this fact by this part of the story. The Elves in Valinor frequently visited Numenor for thousands of years before the events of the show, so there's definitely a way for a message to get through to the Galadriel.

Utter lack of interest in what the lore says by the showrunners. Amazing. I’m not sure which is funnier - “Galadriel is in a quest to avenge the life of her living brother” or “Durin is so potent he reincarnated himself into his son while he was still alive.”

[Syegfryed]

Oh, and here's the best part of the "Get revenge for Finrod's death" storyline. Finrod is alive. He was reincarnated in Valinor before the defeat of Morgoth. And Galadriel should know this fact by this part of the story. The Elves in Valinor frequently visited Numenor for thousands of years before the events of the show, so there's definitely a way for a message to get through to the Galadriel.

Utter lack of interest in what the lore says by the showrunners. Amazing. I’m not sure which is funnier - “Galadriel is in a quest to avenge the life of her living brother” or “Durin is so potent he reincarnated himself into his son while he was still alive.”

I laughed way too hard about those bits, clearly how they give zero shits about the work they are adapting, the bit of her living brother is more bs when you realize she had other brothers and husband, but apparently only care about one brother

[Triceron]

Durin is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

[SpaghettiMonk]

I'm only 4 minutes in but this guy definitely gets it, seems like a good listen.

Why is the Rings of Power So Hated?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiW1_s8S71A

[Triceron]

I'm only 4 minutes in but this guy definitely gets it, seems like a good listen.

Why is the Rings of Power So Hated?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiW1_s8S71A

"Pretty sure the problem wasn't that Galadriel was a good fighter, it was that everyone else was incompetent. A whole group of presumably elite elven warriors couldn't handle a troll that she killed in seconds... And that is just one example."

Yep, been saying that since the first episode. It's just poor story telling to have all those Elves literally be worthless the entire time. I get you want to make Galadriel feel exceptional, but you don't do it at the expense of her troops.

[kenn9530]

"Pretty sure the problem wasn't that Galadriel was a good fighter, it was that everyone else was incompetent. A whole group of presumably elite elven warriors couldn't handle a troll that she killed in seconds... And that is just one example."

Yep, been saying that since the first episode. It's just poor story telling to have all those Elves literally be worthless the entire time. I get you want to make Galadriel feel exceptional, but you don't do it at the expense of her troops.

Is every single elve meant to be just a superior fighter and be expected to handle anything that they come across, the elves race is not much different to men they just have some benfits, are they also immune to getting tired or how do you even know these elves even have actual combat experience or even seen a troll to begin with, plenty of factors you have probably never even considered, only a small number of elves can be considered special.

[Triceron]

Is every single elve meant to be just a superior fighter and be expected to handle anything that they come across, the elves race is not much different to men they just have some benfits, are they also immune to getting tired or how do you even know these elves even have actual combat experience or even seen a troll to begin with, plenty of factors you have probably never even considered, only a small number of elves can be considered special.

It doesn't matter of they aren't or not. We have no information that implies Galadriel was experienced in fighting snow trolls while her troop were not, yet she still beat it fine while her troops could not do anything. That's all that matters.

If they were all tasked with finding Sauron, then if her troops can't even deal with a Snow Troll what use would they be in a fight with the actual big bad? Nothing, because they are only portrayed as being worthless and in your own explanation, inexperienced.

[kenn9530]

It doesn't matter of they aren't or not. We have no information that implies Galadriel was experienced in fighting snow trolls while her troop were not, yet she still beat it fine while her troops could not do anything. That's all that matters.

If they were all tasked with finding Sauron, then if her troops can't even deal with a Snow Troll what use would they be in a fight with the actual big bad? Nothing, because they are only portrayed as being worthless and in your own explanation, inexperienced.

Galadriel is one of the special elves that are superior to other normal elves, she wants revenge for her brother so she has had plenty of motivation to become a superior fighter to many other elves, the other elve soldiers are just normal elves as far as we know. Elves can get knocked down and die just as easy as the race of men.

It was a task she herself took upon and just dragged anyone who would follow with them, they had been doing this for what hundreds of years and many who did follow went back home, it has nothing to do with actually beating sauron because it would take an army not a small force to even have a chance to begin with, not all soldiers are going to be experienced in battle and they were shown to be pretty much exhausted before the troll appeared, your expectations on the elve race is far too high.

[Syegfryed]

ah yes, she want revenge for her alive brother, this joke keeps giving.

She being "special" is not an excuse for the elite task force that went serching for sauron, and fight him if need be, to be this weak and worthless.

[kenn9530]

ah yes, she want revenge for her alive brother, this joke keeps giving.

She being "special" is not an excuse for the elite task force that went serching for sauron, and fight him if need be, to be this weak and worthless.

And where did they ever say it was an elite force, looking for something and actually fighting is two completely different things, a whole army of elves would stand little or no chance to defeat sauron on his own let alone a small scouting party, just takes a little bit of thought to actually understand things just a little.

Elves are only a little bit different to the race of men, stop putting them on a pedestal because of your mistaken expectations.

[Syegfryed]

And where did they ever say it was an elite force, looking for something and actually fighting is two completely different things, a whole army of elves would stand little or no chance to defeat sauron on his own let alone a small scouting party, just takes a little bit of thought to actually understand things just a little.

That just make her even more stupid to think she can take him on, if an army can't

but well, being bright is not a character trait of hers, since she fully aware of it, jump from the ship miles away from middle earth, trying to swim there, knowing for a fact it was impossible and knowing she was going for - her words - certain death

It's amazing how people try to explain it, it gets even more absurd and nonsensical, the only way to watch this is if you take away your brain

[Skulltaker]

Elves are only a little bit different to the race of men, stop putting them on a pedestal because of your mistaken expectations.

Ahm, wrong. Elves are, on average, considerably better than Men at everything. They also don't require sleep, can walk over snow, leave no traces if they chose so, craft objects with such immense quality that they appear to be magical to other folk...

The average Elf will run circles around trained men and beat them in combat every time. It's something the movies got wrong as well.

[kenn9530]

Ahm, wrong. Elves are, on average, considerably better than Men at everything. They also don't require sleep, can walk over snow, leave no traces if they chose so, craft objects with such immense quality that they appear to be magical to other folk...

The average Elf will run circles around trained men and beat them in combat every time. It's something the movies got wrong as well.

Not all elves are exectional, its nowhere in the lore all elves are clearly better at everything, they are stronger, more agile and dont die from normal means, creating powerful objects is just from living so long they can master techniques, it doesnt make them so much better than everyone else that a trained man couldnt kill an elve 1v1.

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That just make her even more stupid to think she can take him on, if an army can't

but well, being bright is not a character trait of hers, since she fully aware of it, jump from the ship miles away from middle earth, trying to swim there, knowing for a fact it was impossible and knowing she was going for - her words - certain death

It's amazing how people try to explain it, it gets even more absurd and nonsensical, the only way to watch this is if you take away your brain

The usual thing with revenge is you do it regardless of chances of success, she is willing to accept death if she is unable to get her revenge its the basic concept of seeking revenge against a powerful enemy.

[Syegfryed]

The usual thing with revenge is you do it regardless of chances of success, she is willing to accept death if she is unable to get her revenge its the basic concept of seeking revenge against a powerful enemy.

That is dumb, the usual thing with revenge is that you actually have chances, or you make your own

And again, her revenge is pointless because her brother is alive, in the place she refused to go in the very first episode

her motivations and reasons are nonsensical and artificial as they had to break down the lore to pretend it works, but she ultimately ignores her other two brothers and her own husband.

[Ophenia]

but she ultimately ignores her other two brothers and her own husband.

Noooo she "lost" her husband, like she lost him in the supermarket or whatever