Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[Varodoc]

You are being the contrarian - there's nothing to support your conclusion that there can't be black Dwarves, only your own bias.

Okay so since Tolkien never described people having sex, that means humans in Middle Earth reproduce asexually by laying eggs.

There's nothing to support my conclusion? How about the fact that you couldn't find any depiction at all of Middle Earth dwarves as black?

Just stop dude, the entire world agreed that the Dwarves of Middle Earth are fair-skinned. This black dwarf came out of nowhere to virtue signal ,as per usual in the last years, and you are buying it.

[uuuhname]

@Nurasu Also please show me when Elves (always described as fair and elegant) were ever portrayed like this in Middle Earth:

[IMG]https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/02/10/15/54018443-10498771-image-a-185_1644505330696.jpgIMG]


I have literally never seen a more out of place hairstyle for an elf, but suuuure, they aren't pushing an agenda to fill the usual quota

Jesus Christ, just don't watch the show if seeing darker skin triggers you so much.

[Syegfryed]

Criticism is fine. What tends to go on isn't really criticism, though. Certainly not constructive criticism.

i think the criticism are pretty constructive

1. Be more faithful to the original source
2. Better characterization, so the dwarves and elves don't look like humans cosplaying.

Not even talking about skin color, they just straight up don't look like elves, not even Galadriel.

[Nurasu]

Okay so since Tolkien never described people having sex, that means humans in Middle Earth reproduce asexually by laying eggs.

There's nothing to support my conclusion? How about the fact that you couldn't find any depiction at all of Middle Earth dwarves as black?

Just stop dude, the entire world agreed that the Dwarves of Middle Earth are fair-skinned. This black dwarf came out of nowhere to virtue signal ,as per usual in the last years, and you are buying it.

Can you find any depiction of Tolkien's that describes them as white? What's the problem with depicting them as a mixed race society in a modern adaptation when there's NO conflict with the source material unless you're fucking racist?

[Triceron]

@Nurasu Also please show me when Elves (always described as fair and elegant) were ever portrayed like this in Middle Earth:

I have literally never seen a more out of place hairstyle for an elf, but suuuure, they aren't pushing an agenda to fill the usual quota

Why does it have to have been portrayed before? This series isn't portraying anything that's ever seen before. It's not even based on anything we've actually seen portrayed before. These characters are completely all new to the universe, and are ultimately non-canonical.

As a general rule set by the Tolkien estate, Amazon is not allowed to alter is the history of Middle Earth, otherwise they seem okay with all of these changes.

Movies and games set in the LOTR universe don't have to be canonical to the books, whether we're talking about the LOTR movie adaptations, the videogames, the tabletop games, or this new series. They're ultimately liscenced products that exist within their own canon.

[Varodoc]

Jesus Christ, just don't watch the show if seeing darker skin triggers you so much.

So you have no respect for the source material that the show is supposedly based on?

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Can you find any depiction of Tolkien's that describes them as white? What's the problem with depicting them as a mixed race society in a modern adaptation when there's NO conflict with the source material unless you're fucking racist?

Okay so you agree that men in Middle Earth reproduce asexually by laying eggs?

[Nurasu]

So you have no respect for the source material that the show is supposedly based on?

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Okay so you agree that men in Middle Earth reproduce asexually by laying eggs?

Checks out; and prevents it from becoming Game of Thrones. You should pitch it, tbh.

[Sluvs]

So you have no respect for the source material that the show is supposedly based on?

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Okay so you agree that men in Middle Earth reproduce asexually by laying eggs?

Ok, let me just add this: you can have respect and still change the source material.
In fact, I believe some changes that other adaptations made were more disrespectful than this one.

I can see that the characterization bothers you, that is fine. But lets not pretend that this is the biggest change ever.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

the movies tried to be as faithful as possible knowing was an adaptation without billionaire budget. They had to change stuff to work on a movie but overall the intent and message/plot of the movie follows the book. Thats why the hobbit was not as much praised, it deviates from the lotr recipe adding bs stuff like the romance subplot.

Lets not pretend, we know for a fact that adaptations will change things, that is understandable, the problem is always how you do that, and what extend you do that.

The show came out saying it was a prequel, following tolkien lore and said it would be "the tale tolkien never wrote" plus other things, this put then the burden of trying to be as much faithful as lord of the rings at least; but that is not the case, they are basically taking the universe and doing a fanfiction.

So lets say that they should be more faithful then the movies, I don't know enough about Tolkien's work to know but outside of visual aesthetic what exactly is putting this into Fanfiction?

[haediff]

Jesus Christ, just don't watch the show if seeing darker skin triggers you so much.

I think the point people are trying to make is sacrificing the source material for inclusion does right by no one.

[uuuhname]

So you have no respect for the source material that the show is supposedly based on?

dude, it seems pretty obvious the source material isn't really what you're mad about. but okay, let's say this goes against the source material, so what? the books are still there, the Peter Jackson movies ( and the hobbit movies...) are still there.

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I think the point people are trying to make is sacrificing the source material for inclusion does right by no one.

that's not the point I'm seeing made with the person I quoted. and nothing was sacrificed! no one is burning books of the hobbit... all of what makes LoTR a thing is still out there for you to enjoy. another thing that doesn't fit into that mold exactly can exist as it's own thing as well.

[Nurasu]

I think the point people are trying to make is sacrificing the source material for inclusion does right by no one.

I'm trying to get to the bottom of how much of a sacrifice it really is for people though. The heavy CGI is a much bigger issue to me than the color of brand new characters I know nothing about yet.

[Varodoc]

dude, it seems pretty obvious the source material isn't really what you're mad about. but okay, let's say this goes against the source material, so what? the books are still there, the Peter Jackson movies ( and the hobbit movies...) are still there.

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that's not the point I'm seeing made with the person I quoted. and nothing was sacrificed! no one is burning books of the hobbit... all of what makes LoTR a thing is still out there for you to enjoy. another thing that doesn't fit into that mold exactly can exist as it's own thing as well.

Actually, it's exactly that. Because me and pretty much the rest of the Earth associate Middle Earth elves with fair-skinned and long-haired individuals, not black and short-haired ones. Which is why their trailer has been received so horribly.

[uuuhname]

Actually, it's exactly that. Because me and pretty much the rest of the Earth associate Middle Earth elves with fair-skinned and long-haired individuals, not dark-skinned and short-haired ones. Which is why their trailer has been received so horribly.

saying these characters, whom, as far as we know are no where in the OG LoTR cannon do not belong here is a very weird take on its own. made very sus by the fact that this is like the millionth time a dark skin person existing is cause for controversy.

[Jastall]

I'm trying to get to the bottom of how much of a sacrifice it really is for people though. The heavy CGI is a much bigger issue to me than the color of brand new characters I know nothing about yet.

The Hobbit-level of CGI and other large changes like majorly compressing the timeline don't get clicks like "ThEy PuT iN bLaCk ElVeS!!" does. That's the sad reality of it.

[haediff]

dude, it seems pretty obvious the source material isn't really what you're mad about. but okay, let's say this goes against the source material, so what? the books are still there, the Peter Jackson movies ( and the hobbit movies...) are still there.

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that's not the point I'm seeing made with the person I quoted. and nothing was sacrificed! no one is burning books of the hobbit... all of what makes LoTR a thing is still out there for you to enjoy. another thing that doesn't fit into that mold exactly can exist as it's own thing as well.

Let's see Marvel make Black Panther 2 with the lead role as a blonde-hair, blue-eyed white guy and see how happy people are about that.

[Nurasu]

Let's see Marvel make Black Panther 2 with the lead role as a blonde-hair, blue-eyed white guy and see how happy people are about that.

I missed the part where Galadriel and Elrond are fucking black now lmao. Are Middle Earth Elves truly the last bastion of white supremacists?

[Triceron]

The Hobbit-level of CGI and other large changes like majorly compressing the timeline don't get clicks like "ThEy PuT iN bLaCk ElVeS!!" does. That's the sad reality of it.

There's times when I wonder if studios actually try and stir up negative PR just for the sake of building a buzz that would otherwise fly under the radar.

Sonic movie definitely reminds me of this, and I still question if it was a manufactured controversy.

[uuuhname]

Let's see Marvel make Black Panther 2 with the lead role as a blonde-hair, blue-eyed white guy and see how happy people are about that.

trying to compare a character whose race is central to their identity to a dark skin character existing in high fantasy is not as strong of an argument you seem to think it is...

[Dhrizzle]

correct, Amazon do not actually care about the legendarium, otherwise they wouldn't have signed off on this shitshow.

Sorry read again, I'm saying you clearly don't care about the source material as you're inserting your own ideas wildly at odds with Tolkien's to try to justify your stance.

that's great, but quite frankly, who the fuck cares what they wanted, they didn't make the series, they didn't write the underlying stories, they have NO SAY whatsoever in what is or is not part of the story when they are ADAPTING a pre-existing work, sorry if that hurts your precious feelings, but that's just the way of things, if they wanted to push their agenda through the medium of a fantasy story, they should have made their own original work instead of highjacking a long standing well beloved work of fiction that has been credited as being the basis and progenitor of what modern fantasy is all about, and the hilarity of people comparing this to game of thrones, without Tolkein there wouldn't be a fucking game of thrones, so try again kiddo, 'that's not gonna fly' to coin a phrase.

I've no hurt feelings, in case you didn't notice you're the one upset about having NO SAY whatsoever in how the adaptation goes. When Tolkien and his successors commoditised LotR they opened it up to reinterpretations by people who gained the license. In this case the people with the license decided the aesthetics of homogenous races based on the author's experience a century ago weren't necessary for the story they wanted to tell. When Peter Jackson made the Hobbit movies they decided it needed massively padding with CGI buffoonery, a pointless romance and an unneeded prime antagonist.