1. #8461
    Quote Originally Posted by Koriani View Post
    <snip>
    I agree with all of what you say here. As years have gone by, I have often thought that theres to much crap made on netflix, hbo or whatever other streaming service. Show after show. Movie after movie. Blockbuster series/Movies or random ass shite show/movie gets slapped on the front page. Its so much clutter with 95% of it being utter garbo.

    I have also noticed that I probably watch 1-3(at top) quality shows each year. Theres way more shit series/movies i've started to watch and dropped. Theres just so much garbo out there that im at the point I dont even bother checking up series anymore. I used to have subs to a couple streaming services, but I dropped it long ago. My GF still keeps 1-2 subs going now and then, so sometimes we give a show a shot. But.. Well, most is bad.

    Im not sure, but I think Steve Jobs(might have been someone else, but whatever) once said that once the PR/marked deparment take over something the engineers(in that case) - the creativity is gone. At that point, its all about churning out maximum profit with least effort. So instead of being innovative, creative, artistic etc - Theres mass produced shitshows.


    Im also done paying a monthly sub for mostly bad quality shows. If something great shows up, I will probably hear about it and sub.

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    If MMO-C didn't have the Recent Post tracker no one would even use this forum.
    This. If it got removed, I probably wouldnt bother lol

  2. #8462
    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    I have also noticed that I probably watch 1-3(at top) quality shows each year. Theres way more shit series/movies i've started to watch and dropped. Theres just so much garbo out there that im at the point I dont even bother checking up series anymore.
    I feel you, and it's getting annoying. But the reality is probably that this is a minority reaction, and that most people are just going MORE MORE MORE NEW NEW NEW and aren't really super concerned with quality or sophistication. And the services gravitate towards what they think will make them the most money, which tend to be "the hot new show" kind of deals rather than years-long developments of television artistry and craftsmanship. Many things are to blame for it, but ultimately, consumers get to speak - if they just bite down on the garbage, that's what they'll keep getting fed.

    I've rewatched more old series this year than finished new ones... by far. Not counting things I was obligated to watch for work, I think I finished 1 new series; most others I could not get past the first few episodes, or even the trailer. It's just become so hard to stomach dreck like Rings of Power or Wheel of Time, and I've run out of patience. I'll just stop, and move on. Or back in time, as it were.

    Maybe there's a niche to be carved out there, I don't know. A streaming service and studio for people who want actual narrative, actual cinematic excellence. Not just a reheated stew of tired old tropes and predictable stereotypes, served in an incoherent mess of half-baked narrative and amateurish casting. But who's to pay for that? Not enough people willing to actually draw a line, I guess.

  3. #8463
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    HBO getting bought by Discovery+, home of reality cooking TV shows, feels like McDonalds buying Nobu.
    No. HBO has been a part of Warner Media since at least the 1990's. WarnerMedia was merged with Discovery by AT&T in 2022.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  4. #8464
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    HBO getting bought by Discovery+, home of reality cooking TV shows, feels like McDonalds buying Nobu.
    Funny you should mention cooking shows, just the other day I ranted about how you can't even find cooking shows that are just about, you know, COOKING anymore - no, it all has to be some kind of gimmick, like it's a gameshow or something. I just want to watch professional, high-quality shows about sophisticated cooking. Just the cooking. Not a story about a Korean nun who only cooks for the public twice a decade. Not a show about cooking for 50 people on a $50 budget. Not a documentary about the thousand ways the host can bite into a sandwich. JUST FUCKING COOKING that's not YouTube quality production value. But noooo....

    I guess it's a larger symptom of an increasingly warped media landscape, where everything is sensationalized and converges towards some kind of market-share mentality. You can't find purity anymore, and you can't find originality, either. It's all just... soup. Which is doubly bad with the streaming service landscape fragmenting even further so you don't even know where to go anymore. It's cable networks all over again.

  5. #8465
    Quote Originally Posted by Koriani View Post
    ...
    Honestly think they should be looking at streamers/twitch/youtube as the model to use, sponsor people to play games/create content/play music/etc as your IRL stuff/repeatable content and inter-splice it with your media companies big ticket items (the big shows, your Game of Thrones) so that people can look forward to a big new show every few months from a streaming service while having the content catalogue to enjoy + daily streamers who have content to provide.

    Amazon has the easiest path forward in my opinion as they have twitch, think they should look to include it in prime video to supplement it, and if people can watch twitch through amazon prime more likely to browse for something or buy something if they remember they need it if they are already at the site.

    The rest of them would have work to do but could make it happen, though netflix could pick up the foreign market shows (I have enjoyed a number of the Korean shows/movies) and use that angle if they can get it exclusively.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    It's a strange and illogical world where not wanting your 10 year old daughter looking at female-identifying pre-op penises at the YMCA could feasibly be considered transphobic.

  6. #8466
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    Meanwhile I honestly don't understand what Amazon is thinking with Prime - where's the synergy between free delivery and tv shows?
    It's all about the Prime subscription. No different than how WoW Classic operates for WoW. It's meant to sweeten the reason to stay subbed. Prime Video perks fill in the 'deadzone' between online purchases, an incentive to avoid unsubbing.

    Sub for the Free Delivery, stay for the month-to-month TV shows. Cuz to be honest, there's not much in their business model that justifies perpetuating a monthly sub just for the sake of free delivery.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2023-01-06 at 01:26 AM.

  7. #8467
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    As a fan of fantasy series, I think of it as the difference between Brandon Sanderson and a guy like GRRM. I like Brandon Sanderson's books, and I like that his output is prodigious, but I am starting to get less interested in them as time goes on. I can't put my finger on it but they do feel somewhat formulaic - which makes sense, I don't think you can put out as many books as he has without being formulaic. I think Wheel of Time was similar - prodigious output, but not super well done. The guys who do great stuff don't have a ton of output. Personally I was always comfortable with HBO - at their peak they didn't have a ton of output, but they usually had at least one good show that was currently out, and that was enough for me. In ordinary times I'm ok with reading Sanderson's stuff, but I would drop his books in a second if Winds of Winter came out. The problem is he gets paid the same for the 17th cosmere book as GRRM gets paid for his first ASOIAF book in umpteen years.
    I think as long as you have novel stories and don't string them out to long you can do formulaic writing and make it interesting, I still enjoy Koontz from time to time when he does his off beat stories (still love Frankstein and Odd Thomas series). Brandon has got the talent to make different but still formulaic stuff too, like I enjoy the world of Way of the Kings enough to have read the books published so far, but some of his other series I never got into because it felt a bit to similar.

    Honestly Butcher when he was in his prime of pushing two books a year I still loved, as The Dresden Files was such a fun concept of modern day wizard and yet I still enjoyed the Codex Alera greatly too because it was a different world concept.

    I guess what I am saying is they want to do formulaic, I find I enjoy if they do a different style fantasy next to the high or normal fantasy series to keep it interesting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    It's a strange and illogical world where not wanting your 10 year old daughter looking at female-identifying pre-op penises at the YMCA could feasibly be considered transphobic.

  8. #8468
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    Yup, and they're playing games too. Since Discovery bought HBO, they started doing shit like pulling certain content off the website to create limited availability windows. Meanwhile I honestly don't understand what Amazon is thinking with Prime - where's the synergy between free delivery and tv shows?
    Discovery didn't buy HBO. AT&T bought Discovery for $85 million and merged the WarnerMedia (the parts they didn't sell off) into it. Amazon has stated in the past that Prime Video trials convert at a higher rate then other trials. So it helps keep people paying and interacting with Amazon. If you are paying to watch videos why not enjoy the 2-day shipping as well. It's not like it should be that baffling since Amazon has their hands in everything and their web services is really eclipsing even the retail at this point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    Amazon has the easiest path forward in my opinion as they have twitch, think they should look to include it in prime video to supplement it, and if people can watch twitch through amazon prime more likely to browse for something or buy something if they remember they need it if they are already at the site.
    Neither Twitch or Prime Video need to supplemented and they should likely be kept seperate since one is the traditional Movie industry and one is gaming. They market Twitch as a part of the Prime Gaming perks (Free games, in-game stuff, rotating Luna games each month, free twitch sub). There seems little reason to mix the influencers with video on demand. They could integrate Amazon into Twitch so they link to the company more but I bet they have the data to judge if that is a good or bad idea more than any of us here.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  9. #8469
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    As a fan of fantasy series, I think of it as the difference between Brandon Sanderson and a guy like GRRM. I like Brandon Sanderson's books, and I like that his output is prodigious, but I am starting to get less interested in them as time goes on. I can't put my finger on it but they do feel somewhat formulaic
    Sanderson is the fast-food equivalent of fantasy writing, really. It's okay, but never really much more than okay - and just lives off of volume volume volume. GRRM isn't exactly 3-star cuisine, but it's more like... that super exclusive dining club you wait 2 years for a reservation, and you get a memorable experience of sufficient quality even if it might be a little overwhelming.

    Compensation is hardly anything to go by in creative work, really. It's mostly a function of hype only weakly related to quality - it's more about hitting the right mass appeal at the right time, which is how 7 Harry Potter books make you a billion dollars. Not because they're particularly amazing or particularly well made, they just managed to take off in the right way. It's not exactly fair to the artists, but you don't become an artist for the money (not if you're any good at it, anyway). It's more like a lottery you can manipulate a little bit yourself. But only a little bit.

    I think time is a big factor, though, especially when it comes to platformed products like made-for-streaming shows. They can't take their time, because they need to pump content like crazy to keep their service relevant. Which means most projects are rushed one way or the other, even if they would artistically benefit from extra time in the oven. A film or show is a very different thing from a novel - sure writer's gotta eat, but anyone can at least in principle just sit down and write a novel in their spare time. They CANNOT just sit down and make a TV series in their spare time. You need massive funding, and with that funding come all the constraints that ruin good art.

  10. #8470

  11. #8471
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    House of the Dragon wins Golden Globe for best drama series. Rings of Power with zero nominations.

    At some point the marketing machine - buoyed by Amazon's money and calling everyone racist if they think the show is bad - has to finally lose, right? Maybe this is the start.
    I think most people see the show for what it is. Very bad. One thing is what the media+Amazon harpes about to defend the show, but I would think ALOT of people that watched this show now have a sour taste.

    Sucks though. Amazon had a geniun shot here to create something huge. The world is already established, lots of lore to dwelve into.

  12. #8472
    Well, I recalled a rumor that Amazon really wanted an Emmy nomination, but without a Golden Globe nomination I think they realize they have to make changes sooner than later.

  13. #8473
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    At some point the marketing machine - buoyed by Amazon's money and calling everyone racist if they think the show is bad - has to finally lose, right? Maybe this is the start.
    They never called everyone who didn't like the show racist. There is no possible way for them to win when people like you keep using lies. As all you care about is your fantasy of hate rather then the truth. Not to mention a golden globe is not everything. Would Amazon be upset they didn't win anything for the show? Sure. Does it matter that much for popular or successful shows? No.

    It is crazy how much some of you hate and continue to hold onto it. Why not move on to the next show that you might like?
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  14. #8474
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    House of the Dragon wins Golden Globe for best drama series. Rings of Power with zero nominations.

    At some point the marketing machine - buoyed by Amazon's money and calling everyone racist if they think the show is bad - has to finally lose, right? Maybe this is the start.
    I think the show sucks and have criticized it a ton. Nobody has called me racist. Maybe because my criticisms of the show have nothing to do with race.
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  15. #8475
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    My statement was an exaggeration, but I do think that they tried to marginalize critics as being part of a racist backlash. They shut off reviews and deleted a lot from Amazon and argued they were being review bombed by racists.
    There were racist remarks made against the show and its actors. It is crazy that you even imply that wasn't the case. They didn't marginalize critics as being part of the racist backlash. You admit you lied and are still lying so you don't look as bad. Which makes you look even worse.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  16. #8476
    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    I think most people see the show for what it is. Very bad. One thing is what the media+Amazon harpes about to defend the show, but I would think ALOT of people that watched this show now have a sour taste.

    Sucks though. Amazon had a geniun shot here to create something huge. The world is already established, lots of lore to dwelve into.
    I don't think what they have is unsalvageable, but they need to put a lot of work into the next seasons.

  17. #8477
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    I don't think what they have is unsalvageable, but they need to put a lot of work into the next seasons.
    They need to pretend season 1 never happened. That is how you do it.

  18. #8478
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    They need to pretend season 1 never happened. That is how you do it.
    To be honest, I think a fan edit could go a long ways. The Hobbit was just as bad as this with all the extra shit they threw at it, but it was still redeemable.

    That being said, like 90% of the whole show was fluff. It was really oddly paced and they didn't really do much with the time they had.

  19. #8479
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    To be honest, I think a fan edit could go a long ways. The Hobbit was just as bad as this with all the extra shit they threw at it, but it was still redeemable.

    That being said, like 90% of the whole show was fluff. It was really oddly paced and they didn't really do much with the time they had.
    Main issue is that the writing staff has to recognize that collectively they have a fraction of the talent Tolkien had, and use his works as a guide/blueprint and not as a buffet to cherry pick from.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    It's a strange and illogical world where not wanting your 10 year old daughter looking at female-identifying pre-op penises at the YMCA could feasibly be considered transphobic.

  20. #8480
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    To be honest, I think a fan edit could go a long ways. The Hobbit was just as bad as this with all the extra shit they threw at it, but it was still redeemable.

    That being said, like 90% of the whole show was fluff. It was really oddly paced and they didn't really do much with the time they had.

    If you edit all the 8 episode sin one of 50m i would still it its better to scrap everything and start anew.

    Like, the plot points they introduced, that are based entirely on shit they made up, like the magic mithril, Galadriel leading numenorians into southland, the whole thing with Anathar , everything is fucked.

    I think they should pretend season 1 never happened, and start doing season 2 using the book, focusing on other stuff besides the creation of the three rings, like maybe Sauron corrupting the numenorians. But that is something only a rly good group of people can pull out

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    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    Main issue is that the writing staff has to recognize that collectively they have a fraction of the talent Tolkien had, and use his works as a guide/blueprint and not as a buffet to cherry pick from.
    Its funny that you see a lot of this shit about cherry picking in media nowadays, just so people can point they got the reference, Easter eggs(Like Hallbland saying ""consider a gift") are not lore

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