1. #8481
    The Unstoppable Force Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clone View Post
    Just finished season 1 a few days ago, overall not terrible like the internet makes it out to be.

    Complaining about inaccuracies from the books is pointless, and really hints at other agendas given that the inaccuracies in the original trilogy and Shadow of Mordor are not met with the same scrutiny.
    If you look close, its more than just "inaccuracies from the books, tis about they fucking up the book and making up their own garbage.

    they could have said they were doing something original, unrelated to the books, more about a re-tealing, but they said, "now e are going to be faithful" "when he had doubts back to the book" wand it was a lot of horse shit.

    They could have made a good fantasy show, but even at that they failed. If you completely ignore the lore changes, still is a bad show, with a bad protagonist, bad plot, poor dialogue and countless of other shit. Unlike the game that people found enjoyable even with the lore changed, that they didn't pretend it was faithful.

    There is also the point that the show cost so much, with such big ip, and they made something like C tier netflix show.

  2. #8482
    Herald of the Titans rogoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clone View Post
    Just finished season 1 a few days ago, overall not terrible like the internet makes it out to be.

    Complaining about inaccuracies from the books is pointless, and really hints at other agendas given that the inaccuracies in the original trilogy and Shadow of Mordor are not met with the same scrutiny.
    if that's your take away from watching this steaming pile of dross then that tells me first off you are clueless when it comes to the lore of this world and why many of the bullshit changes made in this show that nobody asked for are so egregious and abhorrent, secondly, it also tells me that you're the perfect mindless idiot that this show is directed at, you are THE demographic for this terrible fanfiction and you are the prime example of the people targeted by this tick boxes infested rubbish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    Inaccuracies in the PJ films were extremely minor relative to what we got in RoP. Shadow of Mordor is a video game, expectations for lore in video games are always very low.
    keep in mind the marketing for shadow of mordor/war were perfectly clear from the outset that they were going to be taking 'creative liberties' with the source material and made people perfectly aware from the outset that it was going to be entirely the developers fabrication loosely based on middle earth and its places/people, this abhorrent mess of a tv show was marketed from the outset as a 'faithful adaptation of the great works of Tolkein', until christopher died and the showrunners/upper management did the uno reverse and created this steaming pile of bullshit with marketing shifting to then become 'based on the works of', there's a difference.

  3. #8483
    The Lightbringer Clone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    If you look close, its more than just "inaccuracies from the books, tis about they fucking up the book and making up their own garbage.

    they could have said they were doing something original, unrelated to the books, more about a re-tealing, but they said, "now e are going to be faithful" "when he had doubts back to the book" wand it was a lot of horse shit.

    They could have made a good fantasy show, but even at that they failed. If you completely ignore the lore changes, still is a bad show, with a bad protagonist, bad plot, poor dialogue and countless of other shit. Unlike the game that people found enjoyable even with the lore changed, that they didn't pretend it was faithful.

    There is also the point that the show cost so much, with such big ip, and they made something like C tier netflix show.
    The show is okay, dialogue is fine.
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    Inaccuracies in the PJ films were extremely minor relative to what we got in RoP. Shadow of Mordor is a video game, expectations for lore in video games are always very low.
    Elves at Helm's Deep is not minor change, and with regards to Shadow of Mordor it's a double standard.

  4. #8484
    The Unstoppable Force Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clone View Post
    The show is okay, dialogue is fine..
    Ah yes, dialogues full of no sequiturs are fine.

    I still laugh my ass of with the "there is a tempest inside me" and Galadriel an dumbass to the queen.

    Elves at Helm's Deep is not minor change, and with regards to Shadow of Mordor it's a double standard.
    You are comparing some elves showing up to die, changing nothing in the story, cause the outcome was the same, to completely erasing Anathar and making mithril magic from the silmarilions mumbo jumbo.

    And the games were always meant to be different and take liberties to do something original without shitting on the source.

  5. #8485
    The Lightbringer Clone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    if that's your take away from watching this steaming pile of dross then that tells me first off you are clueless when it comes to the lore of this world and why many of the bullshit changes made in this show that nobody asked for are so egregious and abhorrent, secondly, it also tells me that you're the perfect mindless idiot that this show is directed at, you are THE demographic for this terrible fanfiction and you are the prime example of the people targeted by this tick boxes infested rubbish.

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    keep in mind the marketing for shadow of mordor/war were perfectly clear from the outset that they were going to be taking 'creative liberties' with the source material and made people perfectly aware from the outset that it was going to be entirely the developers fabrication loosely based on middle earth and its places/people, this abhorrent mess of a tv show was marketed from the outset as a 'faithful adaptation of the great works of Tolkein', until christopher died and the showrunners/upper management did the uno reverse and created this steaming pile of bullshit with marketing shifting to then become 'based on the works of', there's a difference.
    lol, fuck off. Don't make the mistake of thinking that everyone gives a shit about Tolkien lore. This show wasn't even on my radar until people like you raged over it.

  6. #8486
    Quote Originally Posted by Clone View Post
    Elves at Helm's Deep is not minor change, and with regards to Shadow of Mordor it's a double standard.
    It's not a double standard considering Shadow of Mordor was very blatantly developed with creative liberties in mind. The devs were very clear about that.

  7. #8487
    Quote Originally Posted by Clone View Post
    lol, fuck off. Don't make the mistake of thinking that everyone gives a shit about Tolkien lore. This show wasn't even on my radar until people like you raged over it.
    So you're basically just being a troll then? If you don't care for a particular aspect of the show then you shouldn't feel the need to be dismissive over people who take issue with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    It's not a double standard considering Shadow of Mordor was very blatantly developed with creative liberties in mind. The devs were very clear about that.
    Precisely. People didn't give a shit they turned Shelob into a sexy, spider lady because the game never said it was trying to be authentic. They basically just used Tolkien for the setting.

  8. #8488
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    For some reason it's only those who want to like the show that never sees stuff like this. I don't wonder why...because they refuse to read the source material!
    Because its things that no one really cares about or is bothered by, and only found when people with malicious intent tries to find fault? Yeah thats what I meant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    It's not a double standard considering Shadow of Mordor was very blatantly developed with creative liberties in mind. The devs were very clear about that.
    With this logic you all should be quite pleased with the level of accuracy RoP has since they have been clear that this adaptations will take liberties and try to go around the fact they dont have all rights to make it as true and good as possible. Just that every change will have the focus to keep the story Tolkien-esque and approved by Tolkien Estate.

  9. #8489
    Quote Originally Posted by Askyl View Post
    With this logic you all should be quite pleased with the level of accuracy RoP has since they have been clear that this adaptations will take liberties and try to go around the fact they dont have all rights to make it as true and good as possible. Just that every change will have the focus to keep the story Tolkien-esque and approved by Tolkien Estate.
    That doesn't mean anything really, since they still did a shit job at telling a decent story when it comes down to it.

    Doesn't matter how accurate or not accurate it is if it was poorly executed overall.

    Shadows of Mordor was being compared to the Elves at Helms Deep. In both cases where liberties were taken, they made for an enjoyable, entertaining experience. I can't really say the same for RoP, so the 'level of accuracy' has nothing to do with anything really.

    For example, they went with a Mithril saves the Elves storyline. What I didn't care for was the execution in the story, where they tried to pin so much secrecy around it and play cat-and-mouse around the whole thing and in the end it didn't even matter because they still forged the Elven rings with what little Mithril was given to Elrond. If we're talking about accuracy, the Elves never really needed Mithril nor did they place any particular importance over it outside of regarding it as a precious material. The Mithril-Elf Salvation reasoning is an excuse for Durin to keep digging and unleash the Balrog in future seasons, that's it. It doesn't actually make the plot better, considering the Dwarves were going to mine for Mithril anyways. We didn't need a 'We won't mine Mithril' "BUT DADDY I NEED TO SAVE MUH ELF FRIENDS" plot to get to the Balrog, but that's pretty much where ROP is going with it.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2023-01-13 at 07:46 AM.

  10. #8490
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    Owen is just too old to play Elendil. Yes, I know Elendil was very old in the books, being over 300 years old at the time he fought Sauron, but he’s supposed to be a great warrior, and Owen is gonna be in his 60s by the time that scene is actually filmed.
    Maybe, I don't want to risk getting a worse actor because of his age though. Considering how great Numenoreans are supposed to be it doesn't feel jarring. Celebrimbors age is much more of an issue to me, he stuck out. Elendil didn't for me and I rather watch him act than gamble on a new actor.


    ---

    Can't believe people are bringing up the games again. It's a vast difference in saying how faithful you are gonna be in interviews. When anything comes up they would "go back to the books". Everything would be Tolkienian. You are setting up hype and expectations for something you never intended to deliver.

    The games never did such. Of course some will be mad that they change things as well, but not in the same magnitude because it was never advertised as such. And yet the game feels more like LotR than RoP.
    Last edited by Kumorii; 2023-01-13 at 09:55 AM.
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  11. #8491
    The Unstoppable Force Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Askyl View Post
    With this logic you all should be quite pleased with the level of accuracy RoP has since they have been clear that this adaptations will take liberties and try to go around the fact they dont have all rights to make it as true and good as possible. Just that every change will have the focus to keep the story Tolkien-esque and approved by Tolkien Estate.
    That bit right there is where you are wrong. They didn't mare sure to be true neither good. Making mithril a magic metal from a silmarilion is not "tolkien" Tolkien never made that shit up, He never wrote about galadriel leading an army of numenorians to save "the southlands". And the result still was a shitshow. Plus, the current head of the tolkien estate is a clown that asked for Sauron to be Walter white and said the Jackson trilogy had too much from the books.

    The bit about the rights its what bugs me all the time, they seem to cut stuff that apparently they can't use, but then they use something related later, like they could.

    Like they didn't mention how the spider and Morgoth destroyed the trees, and don't say the elves went after Morgoth because the silmarilions, but they late mention the silmarilions anyway, so why the hell they changed before???
    Last edited by Syegfryed; 2023-01-13 at 09:19 AM.

  12. #8492
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    That bit right there is where you are wrong. They didn't mare sure to be true neither good. Making mithril a magic metal from a silmarilion is not "tolkien" Tolkien never made that shit up, He never wrote about galadriel leading an army of numenorians to save "the southlands". And the result still was a shitshow. Plus, the current head of the tolkien estate is a clown that asked for Sauron to be Walter white and said the Jackson trilogy had too much from the books.

    The bit about the rights its what bugs me all the time, they seem to cut stuff that apparently they can't use, but then they use something related later, like they could.

    Like they didn't mention how the spider and Morgoth destroyed the trees, and don't say the elves went after Morgoth because the silmarilions, but they late mention the silmarilions anyway, so why the hell they changed before???
    The Silmarils are mentioned several times in the LotR books, the way Morgoth and Ungoliant destroy the trees are not. The licensing does seem pretty weird though as the series was made in consultation with the Estate so they can use some things with permission no already covered by the deal but what they can use seems throttled.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    Without looking it up - I recall that they were very clear that they had all the rights they needed and that they were trying to be faithful to the books.

    Neither thing ended up being true.
    They have the rights to what was written in LotR, the relevant parts to this period are a few paragraphs that vaguely sketch the events in the appendices. They weren't given blanket permission to use whatever they want from the volumes Tolkien never finished like the Silmarillion.

  13. #8493
    The Unstoppable Force rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    Without looking it up - I recall that they were very clear that they had all the rights they needed and that they were trying to be faithful to the books. Neither thing ended up being true.
    How could they be Faithful to the books when they were telling a story not covered by the books? As early as Februrary 2022 it was made known that they weren't being faithful because of the time compression. That same article has them saying they are trying to do the novel that Tolkien never wrote. Which means they can't be faithful to a story that didn't exist from the original author.


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  14. #8494
    The Unstoppable Force Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    The Silmarils are mentioned several times in the LotR books, the way Morgoth and Ungoliant destroy the trees are not. The licensing does seem pretty weird though as the series was made in consultation with the Estate so they can use some things with permission no already covered by the deal but what they can use seems throttled.
    Ok, even if you take ungoliat from the picture, the elves went after Morgoth because he stole the silmarilions, not because he destroyed the Tree, they could have mention that, but they chose to not do it, when they should be perfectly fine to do it, because silmarilions were mentioned many times like you said.

    So, they did their own thing, not just because they didn't had the right, but because they want to.

    Tolkien estate seems to be a circus to let all of this happen anyway.

  15. #8495
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    The Silmarils are mentioned several times in the LotR books, the way Morgoth and Ungoliant destroy the trees are not. The licensing does seem pretty weird though as the series was made in consultation with the Estate so they can use some things with permission no already covered by the deal but what they can use seems throttled.
    The Estate is in different hands now. There's very little left of the strict gatekeeping that happened under Christopher Tolkien. What limitations Amazon had were probably directly from their deal with Christopher. Simon Tolkien seems to be absolutely fine with consulting and supporting what we see in RoP today.

  16. #8496
    The Unstoppable Force Syegfryed's Avatar
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    https://boundingintocomics.com/2023/...ion-of-mordor/

    He explain things like he REALLY want to do his own thing and fuck the lore

  17. #8497
    The Unstoppable Force rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    https://boundingintocomics.com/2023/...ion-of-mordor/

    He explain things like he REALLY want to do his own thing and fuck the lore
    That site is known to lie and has really hated on Rings of Power since even before the show was out. Of course they wanted to do their own thing because a show based on short snipets wouldn't be an actual show. I can't believe after all this time some of you are still under the impression that they wouldn't be filling in the blanks to create their own interpretation of Tolkien's work.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  18. #8498
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    As I've said several times, the role of the estate in this show is mystifying. They're like, "Hey, you can make up your own stuff that contradicts the lore, but you can't use the actual lore."

    Seems like the estate is going for maximum cash these days.
    Honestly, considering the amount Amazon paid for the liscencing, I don't blame them. Simon being a show consultant probably pays better than any of the novels he's written too.

  19. #8499
    Merely a Setback Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    they are diving into a whole “morally gray” orcs story, which Tolkien might have loosely mused about in a letter but didn’t actually do cause it’s a bad idea
    Given that Tolkien said the orcs were originally pure evil before he went back and changed it so they could in theory be good wouldn’t it more so it was one of the many ideas he didn’t have time to expand on before his death instead of it being an actual bad idea?
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  20. #8500
    The Unstoppable Force Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Given that Tolkien said the orcs were originally pure evil before he went back and changed it so they could in theory be good wouldn’t it more so it was one of the many ideas he didn’t have time to expand on before his death instead of it being an actual bad idea?
    Tolkien idea is that they could be redeemable, that could just means, they could be saved, in some way, like turning then back into what they once where(humans/beasts/elves), or similar,nNot that the orcs would be morally grey, which, could probably work as part of the grand plan of they eventually redeeming themselves or with help.

    But that require actually work, effort and talented people, and probably a spin-off on its on cause its one hell of a work to pull off

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    As I've said several times, the role of the estate in this show is mystifying. They're like, "Hey, you can make up your own stuff that contradicts the lore, but you can't use the actual lore."

    Seems like the estate is going for maximum cash these days.
    apparently Simon Tolkien is the one to blame, why he wants to fuck up his grandfather legacy? dunno.

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