Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[Syegfryed]

Given that Tolkien said the orcs were originally pure evil before he went back and changed it so they could in theory be good wouldn’t it more so it was one of the many ideas he didn’t have time to expand on before his death instead of it being an actual bad idea?

Tolkien idea is that they could be redeemable, that could just means, they could be saved, in some way, like turning then back into what they once where(humans/beasts/elves), or similar,nNot that the orcs would be morally grey, which, could probably work as part of the grand plan of they eventually redeeming themselves or with help.

But that require actually work, effort and talented people, and probably a spin-off on its on cause its one hell of a work to pull off

- - - Updated - - -

As I've said several times, the role of the estate in this show is mystifying. They're like, "Hey, you can make up your own stuff that contradicts the lore, but you can't use the actual lore."

Seems like the estate is going for maximum cash these days.

apparently Simon Tolkien is the one to blame, why he wants to fuck up his grandfather legacy? dunno.

[rhorle]

Tolkien idea is that they could be redeemable, that could just means, they could be saved, in some way, like turning then back into what they once where(humans/beasts/elves), or similar,nNot that the orcs would be morally grey, which, could probably work as part of the grand plan of they eventually redeeming themselves or with help.

He never said they could be redeemed by being turned back to what they were. He just said after their creation they were part of God's world and thus could be good. One of his essays says they have a irremediable allegiance to evil and would keep that even if they rebelled against Sauron (since he isn't the source of their will). This looks to be one of the things he had small contradictions in his ever changing story even if the published one stayed the same.

Tolkien also said that every living was divided during the War of the Last Alliance except for the Elves. That does imply that Orcs fought against Sauron, right? So wouldn't those fighting against Sauron be morally grey if anything?

[bledgor]

Tolkien idea is that they could be redeemable, that could just means, they could be saved, in some way, like turning then back into what they once where(humans/beasts/elves), or similar,nNot that the orcs would be morally grey, which, could probably work as part of the grand plan of they eventually redeeming themselves or with help.

But that require actually work, effort and talented people, and probably a spin-off on its on cause its one hell of a work to pull off

- - - Updated - - -



apparently Simon Tolkien is the one to blame, why he wants to fuck up his grandfather legacy? dunno.

Like almost everything, money is why. Simon has no integrity, he just has a thirst for money.

[Syegfryed]

Like almost everything, money is why. Simon has no integrity, he just has a thirst for money.

But if he like money, they would have sold the silmarilion by now, maybe he is genuinely dumb or something, the interview of him saying Peter Jackson put too much from the books into the movie kills me every time.

[bledgor]

But if he like money, they would have sold the silmarilion by now, maybe he is genuinely dumb or something, the interview of him saying Peter Jackson put too much from the books into the movie kills me every time.

I think give it time, this production was in the works while Christopher was still alive, I think Simon is hedging bets that he can wait a few years for people to want Tolkien again and then he will sell the rights to the Silmarillion.

[Dhrizzle]

Agreed. But they said “There’s a version of everything we need for the Second Age in the books we have the rights to.”

And they're correct, you can tell a coherent story about the creation of the Rings and the fall of Numenor using the information available in LotR and its appendices. What they don't have is rights to anything in the stuff Tolkien never published, at least not without asking to use a specific bit in a specific way, which is probably why anything taken from the Silmarillion or other works is used to cement the series' place in the Legendarium and not as part of the main story.

[Askyl]

Without looking it up - I recall that they were very clear that they had all the rights they needed and that they were trying to be faithful to the books.

Neither thing ended up being true.

You could hold a course in "How to misinterpret and change facts to suit your opinions 101".

They have said they have enough to create a show they believe will do justice to Tolkien and the books. Which for me so far, they have. Its not 10/10 but nothing can really compare to Tolkien.

They have never said they wont take liberties (they have said the opposite, that they will) and they have also said they know they dont have all rights so they cant do everything in detail.

So again, you all haters for the show not being 100% correct with the lore must now love it since it's obviously okey as long as they prepare you for it with a statement.

[Syegfryed]

They have said they have enough to create a show they believe will do justice to Tolkien and the books. Which for me so far, they have. Its not 10/10 but nothing can really compare to Tolkien.

I mean, they ahve the rights to do that, but its clear as day that its obviously they didn't justice, its awful in many ways, and not just because isn't 100%.

They have never said they wont take liberties (they have said the opposite, that they will) and they have also said they know they dont have all rights so they cant do everything in detail.

They said they would take liberties, yes, but also said they would be faithful, and fi they had question they would go to the book, and its a big fat lie, cause they on purpose change shit because they want to, when it was not necesary

So again, you all haters for the show not being 100% correct with the lore must now love it since it's obviously okey as long as they prepare you for it with a statement.

Quite ironic this statement and the previous one, when you start your comment by saying "misinterpret and change facts to suit opinions", hum?

[Triceron]

Well regardless of how faithful they originally aimed the series to be, at least they've come out to say they're gonna try to be more faithful in S2.

Payne: “Season one opens with: Who is Galadriel? Where did she come from? What did she suffer? Why is she driven? We’re doing the same thing with Sauron in season two. We’ll fill in all the missing pieces.”

McKay: “Sauron can now just be Sauron. Like Tony Soprano or Walter White. He’s evil, but complexly evil. We felt like if we did that in season one, he’d overshadow everything else. So the first season is like Batman Begins, and the The Dark Knight is the next movie, with Sauron maneuvering out in the open. We’re really excited. Season two has a canonical story. There may well be viewers who are like, ‘This is the story we were hoping to get in season one!’ In season two, we’re giving it to them.”

We'll see where it goes.

[Fabinas]

Well regardless of how faithful they originally aimed the series to be, at least they've come out to say they're gonna try to be more faithful in S2.

Payne: “Season one opens with: Who is Galadriel? Where did she come from? What did she suffer? Why is she driven? We’re doing the same thing with Sauron in season two. We’ll fill in all the missing pieces.”

McKay: “Sauron can now just be Sauron. Like Tony Soprano or Walter White. He’s evil, but complexly evil. We felt like if we did that in season one, he’d overshadow everything else. So the first season is like Batman Begins, and the The Dark Knight is the next movie, with Sauron maneuvering out in the open. We’re really excited. Season two has a canonical story. There may well be viewers who are like, ‘This is the story we were hoping to get in season one!’ In season two, we’re giving it to them.”

We'll see where it goes.

Well, there's quite the audacity and arrogance from these hacks, comparing their subpar narratives and heros to iconic, well written and much loved characters and movies like Soprano, WW, and the Nolan Batman movies.

They either have no sense of their total inability to write and guide an at least adequate TV series, or they are totally aware, but lean hard on the "fake it till you make it"/"pretend to be, maybe some idiots will actually believe it".

[Fabinas]

Yeah it’s really tiring to hear them compare Sauron to Walter White. You have to earn that.

And also, Sauron is not like Walter White or Tony Soprano anyway.

The silly thing is they are not comparing Sauron, as described and written by Tolkien, to Walter White.

They are comparing their view of Sauron, which was as transparent, bland and one sided as one scheming villain could be, to multi-layered, well defined and conflicted towards his fall WW. The best antihero ever written, following the path to Hell on the base of the noblest intentions.

[Syegfryed]

Well regardless of how faithful they originally aimed the series to be, at least they've come out to say they're gonna try to be more faithful in S2.

Payne: “Season one opens with: Who is Galadriel? Where did she come from? What did she suffer? Why is she driven? We’re doing the same thing with Sauron in season two. We’ll fill in all the missing pieces.”

ITs amazing how they ask those questions and barely answer then in the show or just badly answer then. Who is galadriel? a dumb moron, Where did she come from? Valinorrrrrrrrr, ok that is right, Why is she driven? she is retard.

Can't wait to see then doing this again with Sauron! Walter white of middle earth is coming

McKay: “Sauron can now just be Sauron. Like Tony Soprano or Walter White.

Oh yes they said it, HAHA

He’s evil, but complexly evil. We felt like if we did that in season one, he’d overshadow everything else. So the first season is like Batman Begins, and the The Dark Knight is the next movie, with Sauron maneuvering out in the open. We’re really excited. Season two has a canonical story. There may well be viewers who are like, ‘This is the story we were hoping to get in season one!’ In season two, we’re giving it to them.”

You already know they are fucking full of shit, they can't be more canonical after what they did in season 1 unless they ditch it completely.

Least they can do si keep the same level of canon, more easter eggs than plot.

[Syegfryed]

Sauron's not gonna have a wife nagging him or a teenage son who needs his guidance.

Well, would you believe that now he have something like that?

Cause i can totally see this happening, i mean, his "son" could be the witch king, and it could be that boy from season 1.


When there is a will there is a way.

[Triceron]

You already know they are fucking full of shit, they can't be more canonical after what they did in season 1 unless they ditch it completely.

Well, we don't know what the state of S2 is in. We just know it's still being actively worked on, and got pushed to next year. The rumors of the show runners having their power taken away is still unconfirmed, after all.

That's why I said we'll see where it goes.

[Syegfryed]

Well, we don't know what the state of S2 is in. We just know it's still being actively worked on, and got pushed to next year. The rumors of the show runners having their power taken away is still unconfirmed, after all.

That's why I said we'll see where it goes.

But if rumors are also true, ir means they got replaced with worse people, or people as bad as then, Like the Person who did Wheel of time and (I think) the witcher.

And thats why im saying things don't look any better.

[Triceron]

But if rumors are also true, ir means they got replaced with worse people, or people as bad as then, Like the Person who did Wheel of time and (I think) the witcher.

And thats why im saying things don't look any better.

Why would you immediately assume that?

You think that if the showrunners got replaced, it could... only get worse? Why exactly? Because the showrunners are showing some sort of integrity that new guys wouldn't?

To me, new guys could go either way. Could be better, could be worse, we wouldn't know till we see it.
Star Wars with Rian Johnson spiraled it down into a hole. Suicide Squad with James Gunn turned out fantastic. Doesn't exactly mean Rian Johnson is a bad director either, since he made Knives Out and Glass Onion and those were also fantastic films.

I'll have to wait and see what S2 would actually look like, and whether they're gonna factor in some change of direction, or just stick with their guns and do more of the same. It's too early to tell right now when we don't even know if the showrunners are maintaining their same status moving forward (in light of rumors).

[Syegfryed]

Why would you immediately assume that?

Because Witcher season 2 and wheel of time are garbage that suffer the same problem of fucking up the canon/source material, how can they, do something more canonical?

You think that if the showrunners got replaced, it could... only get worse? Why exactly? Because the showrunners were already showing some sort of integrity that the new guys wouldn't?

No, i think it can't get better, either stay the same or goes down.

[Triceron]

Because Witcher season 2 and wheel of time are garbage that suffer the same problem of fucking up the canon/source material, how can they, do something more canonical?

We wouldn't know until we see the results of the upcoming seasons for both.

Amazon has other series which aren't as shit, like the Boys, which also strays from canon and is still pretty damn spectacular with what they're doing. I wouldn't just point at one example of failure and apply it across the board.

I'll give you that RoP and WoT has stepped off the wrong foot, but I wouldn't presume to know that they're just gonna be released as is without any changes. I don't think anyone knows what Amazon's master plan on this is.

It'd be the same if we were talking about the state of WoW. It has its ups and downs in every expansion, unless you're one of those doomsayers who just hang around and say 'every expansion after WOTLK was shit, it only gets worse'.

No, i think it can't get better, either stay the same or goes down.

Thinking things can't get better and saying 'they got replaced with worse people' are two different statements.

I'm not arguing what you think. I'm arguing your blatant claim of something that I don't think you can actually verify to be happening. Let's be very clear here. I'm not saying the show will get better or worse, I'm saying we don't know either way. If you're gonna make a claim it will only get worse, then frame it by your own opinion, not making up some statement like 'If the rumors are true it means they got replaced with worse people' as if you actually know the outcome. Just want to clarify how you're stating things is making it sound like you know, and not just you expressing an opinion.

[rhorle]

Well, there's quite the audacity and arrogance from these hacks, comparing their subpar narratives and heros to iconic, well written and much loved characters and movies like Soprano, WW, and the Nolan Batman movies.

Some of the writers worked on The Sopranos and Breaking Bad so they certainly have a right to compare it to previous work even if it is just for inspiration.

- - - Updated - - -

Those quotes are from an article dated October last year. I thought these two had been replaced at this point? The entire thing could have completely changed, rendering those quotes moot.

It is a rumor that they will be replaced or have "quietly" been replaced already by a reduction in role/power. The haters are constantly claiming it is true when there is nothing to substantiate it.

[Syegfryed]

We wouldn't know until we see the results of the upcoming seasons for both.

The thing is, they don't deserve the benefit of the doubt, they already shat the sheets, it is safe to assume, things won't go better when they are not bringing better people and especially when don't aknowledge their mistakes

Amazon has other series which aren't as shit, like the Boys, which also strays from canon and is still pretty damn spectacular with what they're doing. I wouldn't just point at one example of failure and apply it across the board.

Right, but who wrote the boys isn't writing rings of power, its other people

It'd be the same if we were talking about the state of WoW. It has its ups and downs in every expansion, unless you're one of those doomsayers who just hang around and say 'every expansion after WOTLK was shit, it only gets worse'.

Well, every expansion after MOP is worse than the last, in the lore department at least, exactly because they don't get good writers.

Thinking things can't get better and saying 'they got replaced with worse people' are two different statements.

I'm not arguing what you think. I'm arguing your blatant claim of something that I don't think you can actually verify to be happening.

Then let me clear of what i meant: The rumors imply they will be replaced by the people who did wheel of time and Witcher, if this is true, i don't think the show can get any better, because those two are as bad as rings of power, i think, if that is true, it will end up more of the same.

There is way to make things better, but that require some BIG changes, which how far they are in season 2, i don't expect any.