1. #8521
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    The Silmarils are mentioned several times in the LotR books, the way Morgoth and Ungoliant destroy the trees are not. The licensing does seem pretty weird though as the series was made in consultation with the Estate so they can use some things with permission no already covered by the deal but what they can use seems throttled.
    The Estate is in different hands now. There's very little left of the strict gatekeeping that happened under Christopher Tolkien. What limitations Amazon had were probably directly from their deal with Christopher. Simon Tolkien seems to be absolutely fine with consulting and supporting what we see in RoP today.

  2. #8522
    The Unstoppable Force Syegfryed's Avatar
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    https://boundingintocomics.com/2023/...ion-of-mordor/

    He explain things like he REALLY want to do his own thing and fuck the lore

  3. #8523
    The Unstoppable Force rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    https://boundingintocomics.com/2023/...ion-of-mordor/

    He explain things like he REALLY want to do his own thing and fuck the lore
    That site is known to lie and has really hated on Rings of Power since even before the show was out. Of course they wanted to do their own thing because a show based on short snipets wouldn't be an actual show. I can't believe after all this time some of you are still under the impression that they wouldn't be filling in the blanks to create their own interpretation of Tolkien's work.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  4. #8524
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    As I've said several times, the role of the estate in this show is mystifying. They're like, "Hey, you can make up your own stuff that contradicts the lore, but you can't use the actual lore."

    Seems like the estate is going for maximum cash these days.
    Honestly, considering the amount Amazon paid for the liscencing, I don't blame them. Simon being a show consultant probably pays better than any of the novels he's written too.

  5. #8525
    Merely a Setback Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    they are diving into a whole “morally gray” orcs story, which Tolkien might have loosely mused about in a letter but didn’t actually do cause it’s a bad idea
    Given that Tolkien said the orcs were originally pure evil before he went back and changed it so they could in theory be good wouldn’t it more so it was one of the many ideas he didn’t have time to expand on before his death instead of it being an actual bad idea?
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  6. #8526
    The Unstoppable Force Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Given that Tolkien said the orcs were originally pure evil before he went back and changed it so they could in theory be good wouldn’t it more so it was one of the many ideas he didn’t have time to expand on before his death instead of it being an actual bad idea?
    Tolkien idea is that they could be redeemable, that could just means, they could be saved, in some way, like turning then back into what they once where(humans/beasts/elves), or similar,nNot that the orcs would be morally grey, which, could probably work as part of the grand plan of they eventually redeeming themselves or with help.

    But that require actually work, effort and talented people, and probably a spin-off on its on cause its one hell of a work to pull off

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    As I've said several times, the role of the estate in this show is mystifying. They're like, "Hey, you can make up your own stuff that contradicts the lore, but you can't use the actual lore."

    Seems like the estate is going for maximum cash these days.
    apparently Simon Tolkien is the one to blame, why he wants to fuck up his grandfather legacy? dunno.

  7. #8527
    The Unstoppable Force rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Tolkien idea is that they could be redeemable, that could just means, they could be saved, in some way, like turning then back into what they once where(humans/beasts/elves), or similar,nNot that the orcs would be morally grey, which, could probably work as part of the grand plan of they eventually redeeming themselves or with help.
    He never said they could be redeemed by being turned back to what they were. He just said after their creation they were part of God's world and thus could be good. One of his essays says they have a irremediable allegiance to evil and would keep that even if they rebelled against Sauron (since he isn't the source of their will). This looks to be one of the things he had small contradictions in his ever changing story even if the published one stayed the same.

    Tolkien also said that every living was divided during the War of the Last Alliance except for the Elves. That does imply that Orcs fought against Sauron, right? So wouldn't those fighting against Sauron be morally grey if anything?
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  8. #8528
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Tolkien idea is that they could be redeemable, that could just means, they could be saved, in some way, like turning then back into what they once where(humans/beasts/elves), or similar,nNot that the orcs would be morally grey, which, could probably work as part of the grand plan of they eventually redeeming themselves or with help.

    But that require actually work, effort and talented people, and probably a spin-off on its on cause its one hell of a work to pull off

    - - - Updated - - -



    apparently Simon Tolkien is the one to blame, why he wants to fuck up his grandfather legacy? dunno.
    Like almost everything, money is why. Simon has no integrity, he just has a thirst for money.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    It's a strange and illogical world where not wanting your 10 year old daughter looking at female-identifying pre-op penises at the YMCA could feasibly be considered transphobic.

  9. #8529
    The Unstoppable Force Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    Like almost everything, money is why. Simon has no integrity, he just has a thirst for money.
    But if he like money, they would have sold the silmarilion by now, maybe he is genuinely dumb or something, the interview of him saying Peter Jackson put too much from the books into the movie kills me every time.

  10. #8530
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    But if he like money, they would have sold the silmarilion by now, maybe he is genuinely dumb or something, the interview of him saying Peter Jackson put too much from the books into the movie kills me every time.
    I think give it time, this production was in the works while Christopher was still alive, I think Simon is hedging bets that he can wait a few years for people to want Tolkien again and then he will sell the rights to the Silmarillion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    It's a strange and illogical world where not wanting your 10 year old daughter looking at female-identifying pre-op penises at the YMCA could feasibly be considered transphobic.

  11. #8531
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    Agreed. But they said “There’s a version of everything we need for the Second Age in the books we have the rights to.”
    And they're correct, you can tell a coherent story about the creation of the Rings and the fall of Numenor using the information available in LotR and its appendices. What they don't have is rights to anything in the stuff Tolkien never published, at least not without asking to use a specific bit in a specific way, which is probably why anything taken from the Silmarillion or other works is used to cement the series' place in the Legendarium and not as part of the main story.

  12. #8532
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    Without looking it up - I recall that they were very clear that they had all the rights they needed and that they were trying to be faithful to the books.

    Neither thing ended up being true.
    You could hold a course in "How to misinterpret and change facts to suit your opinions 101".

    They have said they have enough to create a show they believe will do justice to Tolkien and the books. Which for me so far, they have. Its not 10/10 but nothing can really compare to Tolkien.

    They have never said they wont take liberties (they have said the opposite, that they will) and they have also said they know they dont have all rights so they cant do everything in detail.

    So again, you all haters for the show not being 100% correct with the lore must now love it since it's obviously okey as long as they prepare you for it with a statement.

  13. #8533
    The Unstoppable Force Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Askyl View Post
    They have said they have enough to create a show they believe will do justice to Tolkien and the books. Which for me so far, they have. Its not 10/10 but nothing can really compare to Tolkien.
    I mean, they ahve the rights to do that, but its clear as day that its obviously they didn't justice, its awful in many ways, and not just because isn't 100%.

    They have never said they wont take liberties (they have said the opposite, that they will) and they have also said they know they dont have all rights so they cant do everything in detail.
    They said they would take liberties, yes, but also said they would be faithful, and fi they had question they would go to the book, and its a big fat lie, cause they on purpose change shit because they want to, when it was not necesary

    So again, you all haters for the show not being 100% correct with the lore must now love it since it's obviously okey as long as they prepare you for it with a statement.
    Quite ironic this statement and the previous one, when you start your comment by saying "misinterpret and change facts to suit opinions", hum?

  14. #8534
    Well regardless of how faithful they originally aimed the series to be, at least they've come out to say they're gonna try to be more faithful in S2.

    Payne: “Season one opens with: Who is Galadriel? Where did she come from? What did she suffer? Why is she driven? We’re doing the same thing with Sauron in season two. We’ll fill in all the missing pieces.”

    McKay: “Sauron can now just be Sauron. Like Tony Soprano or Walter White. He’s evil, but complexly evil. We felt like if we did that in season one, he’d overshadow everything else. So the first season is like Batman Begins, and the The Dark Knight is the next movie, with Sauron maneuvering out in the open. We’re really excited. Season two has a canonical story. There may well be viewers who are like, ‘This is the story we were hoping to get in season one!’ In season two, we’re giving it to them.”


    We'll see where it goes.

  15. #8535
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Well regardless of how faithful they originally aimed the series to be, at least they've come out to say they're gonna try to be more faithful in S2.

    Payne: “Season one opens with: Who is Galadriel? Where did she come from? What did she suffer? Why is she driven? We’re doing the same thing with Sauron in season two. We’ll fill in all the missing pieces.”

    McKay: “Sauron can now just be Sauron. Like Tony Soprano or Walter White. He’s evil, but complexly evil. We felt like if we did that in season one, he’d overshadow everything else. So the first season is like Batman Begins, and the The Dark Knight is the next movie, with Sauron maneuvering out in the open. We’re really excited. Season two has a canonical story. There may well be viewers who are like, ‘This is the story we were hoping to get in season one!’ In season two, we’re giving it to them.”


    We'll see where it goes.
    Well, there's quite the audacity and arrogance from these hacks, comparing their subpar narratives and heros to iconic, well written and much loved characters and movies like Soprano, WW, and the Nolan Batman movies.

    They either have no sense of their total inability to write and guide an at least adequate TV series, or they are totally aware, but lean hard on the "fake it till you make it"/"pretend to be, maybe some idiots will actually believe it".
    /spit@Blizzard

  16. #8536
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    Yeah it’s really tiring to hear them compare Sauron to Walter White. You have to earn that.

    And also, Sauron is not like Walter White or Tony Soprano anyway.
    The silly thing is they are not comparing Sauron, as described and written by Tolkien, to Walter White.

    They are comparing their view of Sauron, which was as transparent, bland and one sided as one scheming villain could be, to multi-layered, well defined and conflicted towards his fall WW. The best antihero ever written, following the path to Hell on the base of the noblest intentions.
    /spit@Blizzard

  17. #8537
    The Unstoppable Force Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Well regardless of how faithful they originally aimed the series to be, at least they've come out to say they're gonna try to be more faithful in S2.

    Payne: “Season one opens with: Who is Galadriel? Where did she come from? What did she suffer? Why is she driven? We’re doing the same thing with Sauron in season two. We’ll fill in all the missing pieces.”
    ITs amazing how they ask those questions and barely answer then in the show or just badly answer then. Who is galadriel? a dumb moron, Where did she come from? Valinorrrrrrrrr, ok that is right, Why is she driven? she is retard.

    Can't wait to see then doing this again with Sauron! Walter white of middle earth is coming
    McKay: “Sauron can now just be Sauron. Like Tony Soprano or Walter White.
    Oh yes they said it, HAHA

    He’s evil, but complexly evil. We felt like if we did that in season one, he’d overshadow everything else. So the first season is like Batman Begins, and the The Dark Knight is the next movie, with Sauron maneuvering out in the open. We’re really excited. Season two has a canonical story. There may well be viewers who are like, ‘This is the story we were hoping to get in season one!’ In season two, we’re giving it to them.”
    You already know they are fucking full of shit, they can't be more canonical after what they did in season 1 unless they ditch it completely.

    Least they can do si keep the same level of canon, more easter eggs than plot.
    Last edited by Syegfryed; 2023-01-16 at 10:49 PM.

  18. #8538
    The Unstoppable Force Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    Sauron's not gonna have a wife nagging him or a teenage son who needs his guidance.
    Well, would you believe that now he have something like that?

    Cause i can totally see this happening, i mean, his "son" could be the witch king, and it could be that boy from season 1.


    When there is a will there is a way.

  19. #8539
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    You already know they are fucking full of shit, they can't be more canonical after what they did in season 1 unless they ditch it completely.
    Well, we don't know what the state of S2 is in. We just know it's still being actively worked on, and got pushed to next year. The rumors of the show runners having their power taken away is still unconfirmed, after all.

    That's why I said we'll see where it goes.

  20. #8540
    The Unstoppable Force Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Well, we don't know what the state of S2 is in. We just know it's still being actively worked on, and got pushed to next year. The rumors of the show runners having their power taken away is still unconfirmed, after all.

    That's why I said we'll see where it goes.

    But if rumors are also true, ir means they got replaced with worse people, or people as bad as then, Like the Person who did Wheel of time and (I think) the witcher.

    And thats why im saying things don't look any better.

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