Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[Koriani]

God I love this thread.

Some one who apparently works directly in this line of work “numbers across multiple unbiased sources says it did well and was with there investment”

People who whine about how it did poorly “I don’t like it so your wrong and it failed!”

I just think its really interesting how far off us 'normal viewers' are from understanding, really, what goes into how these companies determine 'successful' show. Fencers informative posts about these things, along with random tidbits I read elsewhere, just further indicate that most of us, as viewers and posters here, really don't fully grasp all the bits that go into these decisions.

Like the recent Netflix CEO (Or whomever he was) statement about how Netflix "has never cancelled a successful show" was met with such backlash - when people just have to realize that the way NETFLIX counts those numbers, its a true statement. It coming to light (through this statement or possibly just before) that a major 'success' marker for Netflix is looking at "engagement through ENTIRE show" or "Who watched the whole thing". Not just raw numbers or minutes viewed in each episode - but counting who FINISHED the show.

And in the articles I read, they found example after example of shows viewers (the public) thought as popular/successful but that Netflix cancelled (confusing people at the time) and found this marker to be telling. Almost all the supposedly "popular" shows they were looking at had very low 'full show completion' numbers.

Just pretty interesting to me. As well as reminding us "we aren't as 'expert' as we think we are/we don't even know what we don't know" about how these decisions are REALLY made and what numbers DO really matter.

And our own personal impressions, or how much money was spent vs what WE see as the 'successful profit return' - CAN (not always, but at least sometimes) have almost nothing to do with what is really used to determine a show's 'success'.

Course, that's something that is now 'known' about at least one part of how Netflix actually determines "show success" for renewal/cancellation. No idea how Amazon, Apple+, HBO, etc. considers that SAME data in prioritizing decision-making, or uses entirely different sets of data altogether and may not give an F about "viewed to completion" rates.

We don't know!! Now just admit it. =D

[Combatbutler]

People just remember the Michael bay Transformers movies were also very successful, that is all I'll say on this matter.

[rogoth]

People just remember the Michael bay Transformers movies were also very successful, that is all I'll say on this matter.

the first few were successful because it was the revival of a series that had been dead for decades outside of childrens TV shows on obscure networks, so there was a lot of adults (me being one of them) that was really looking forward to seeing what i grew up on, on the big screen that the masses would engage with, and while i despise the bay orgasms all over the place, the earlier films were decent enough to revive the franchise.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Correct. The entire season of 8 episodes was released on February 4th. It was the first time that an Amazon show was number one on the weekly top 10 apparently. So it is still an accomplishment but doesn't detract from Rings of Power in any way.

Ya it sounds like the show did well but it’s premier isn’t really Relevant to a weekly released show as there was so much more to binge which could boost numbers a lot higher.

Hopefully Rogoth has some links though as I can’t seem to find any thing about it having 85% of prime users watching it or %’s for like any show with a quick google.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I wouldn't mind seeing a link with figures that show how it bombed in every country that isn't the US, personally.

That would be nice as well though kinda makes
Me wonder if prime is even a big thing out side of North America store front or prime wise.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

We don't know!! Now just admit it. =D

It’s people seeking validation I think they want there views to be right so they have to tear down any info that doesn’t Aline with them and won’t admit that They don’t have the full picture if it’s not the picture they want.

[Ezyah]

Finished 1st season, it definitelly had some good aesthetic but boy , was it boring ....

I feel like nothing really happened in that show apart from a cheap battle between the numenor and the orcs. It felt like watching the extended remix director cut long version of a show that could easily have been a 4 episode season without losing ANY story telling, removing the slow motions scenes and the unecessary dialogues that are just here to give a flase sense of being important lessons.

And it felt weird that the way they were talking about their attack was like a massive army sailing from numenor to save a whole region but in realitty it felt like 4 ship going there to help a single village ???

And my god, please, bring a bit of nuance in your characters ... They are either evil or good hobbits with the power of friendship ....

[Fabinas]

/snip

If it were easy, other distros that command larger and more valuable brands than Lord of the Rings would have done better than 15th. None did. Except for Amazon.

/snip

There's only one thing i might disagree with you in your post and that's the only quoted part.

Lord of the Rings is one of the largest and most valuable brands in literature, cinema, game companies and has a great engagement in all those areas. And has done so for years.

I do feel that you judge this by the TV industry standards and recent metrics and while it isn't exactly wrong, your quoted part isn't also exactly right. While some other IP's and brands may have done better in the industry recently, this does not reduce the value of Lord of the Rings and the Tolkien brand, which has had a steady and faithful engagement from the public for more than 75+years.

I would really like to know which brands do you think were larger and more valuable than Lord of the Rings and the criteria that led to this opinion.

[Triceron]

I would really like to know which brands do you think were larger and more valuable than Lord of the Rings and the criteria that led to this opinion.

A bit surprising that no Disney Plus show has hit the top 15 in 2022. But I do admit Disney Plus had a lackluster 2022 lineup, with Obi-Wan being mediocre and Andor not really getting the mainstream attention that it should have. Their Marvel series weren't very strong either.

[rhorle]

Lord of the Rings is one of the largest and most valuable brands in literature, cinema, game companies and has a great engagement in all those areas. And has done so for years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...dia_franchises

In terms of value it seems like there are plenty of media franchises that are higher. The largest claim is also suspect as Star Wars has more games, cinema, and literature then Tolkien. Do you any evidence to back up your claim? The Tolkien Estate could grow it into what you claim since they seem more open to expansion/development.

[rhorle]

If you don’t have kids, Disney doesn’t produce enough compelling content to make it worth the sub. You can subscribe for a month, watch everything you want to see, then be sure there are no hidden gems left to find. Netflix and HBO Max don’t have that problem with adult subscribers.

Disney+ has Encanto, Bluey, and The Simpsons in the Nielsen top 15 for Overall for 2022. The entire top 15 Overall is higher then 5th or lower place on the Originals list. It really has nothing to do with compelling content but the category definitions reporting services use.

[Xath]

Trival. To just have the rights of production and distribution, they have already made that back.

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Self reportable is meaningless. The industry market analysis decides what is successful. What any distro has to say about that is irrelevant.

Rings of Power is successful. It was one of only two streaming shows in the top 15 for the year that was not owned and distributed by Netflix. Amazon has nothing to do with that reportage.

That's not what the industry cares about or uses as a means for streaming show viability. Total minutes viewed is the standard. Those numbers are publicly available.

Even if Amazon for whatever reason want to publish their viewership- it would still not mean anything because Rings of Power is still a only available in the US as a streaming show.

When you see reportage from HBO/Warner or NBC/Uni of viewership it is because their content airs on non-streaming platforms as well. Which qualifies as both original and acquired programming in some cases. These are a totally different set of market criteria for media than streaming.

So it is meaningful and useful to the market to report The Last of Us has 6 million viewers. But would not be appropriate for Stranger Things or Rings of Power. In fact, it would be laughable and seen negatively to report such of the former.

There is a case for P18-49 and possibly P2-/+. But streaming is not divided by quarters or quad demos so it's kinda useless in the industry.

They have absolutely not made that back rofl

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I was expecting more when you said "the top 15", but they are just the 15th place, that was a bit sad. And that is like, almost all the shows that aired, of course they would make to it somehow lol

Seriously I haven't even heard of half of these lol

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That is fine. I am aware the show is controversial. I have no opinion on the creative of the show. Strictly speaking on the analytics side; this was impressive for Amazon.

I think they greenlit Season 2 with new packaging recently and with a renewed production suite. That's money. They wouldn't do that if it was a poor-performing product.

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Look up the concept of a sunk cost they absolutely would.

[kenn9530]

RoP cost Amazon a billion dollars. The fact that with a budget of more than Peter Jackson's LOTR trilogy combined, the first season was a massive failure for views. And that should be embarrassing enough to Bezos to can the people involved in making that shoddy first season. Guess what? He didn't intervene and continues to allow Jennifer Salke to do whatever the fuck she wants when it comes to who she hires to run their shows and we wind up with a couple of literal nobodies for season one of RoP and that was the result. So now she's replacing them with a couple of women who one of was involved in Rafe of Time which was trash too. So daddy Bezos can enjoy another few hundred million being pissed down the drain on season two of this colossal dumpster fire of a show.

And don't take me ripping on this show as me hating it for the sake of hating it. I legitimately want something good set in Tolkien's world, even if it isn't something he explicitly fleshed out himself. Because I love his work and his universe, but it deserves to be respected and that is not what the creators are doing by any stretch. I'd rather see something awful fail than tread on the legacy of a great writer.

If you call 100 million plus viewers a failure then every show in existance is a complete failure, and its the first 2 seasons thats costing around 1 billion including buying the rights to use the stuff, the show has done better than most shows released even in the short time its been out.

The company doesnt have enough rights to produce a show that could ever be a faithfull adaptation on LOTR so anyone expecting otherwise has unrealistic expectations, you were never going to get tolkien so you were always going to be unhappy, more than enough ppl like the show as it is so it doesnt matter is a small minority dont like it.

[Xath]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...dia_franchises

In terms of value it seems like there are plenty of media franchises that are higher. The largest claim is also suspect as Star Wars has more games, cinema, and literature then Tolkien. Do you any evidence to back up your claim? The Tolkien Estate could grow it into what you claim since they seem more open to expansion/development.

Oh hey the liar is still posting ONE OF was the terminology used if you are going to attempt to badly play word games then actually read what you are quoting.

[kenn9530]

They have absolutely not made that back rofl

SANDERS: It’s been a tremendous success for us, it performed incredibly well around the globe. It is by far our biggest scripted series, it is the most acquisitive show that we’ve put out. After we finished releasing episodes, we saw a new surge of people come to the service to start the show. We’ve already released the fact that we’re over 100 million, and the number has gone up since then, it’s millions and millions beyond that.

We are really proud that the show drove renewed interest in the books, we saw spikes in book sales. It’s just been a company-wide success and as significant as our investment has been, it has more than paid off for us.

So the co head of television of amazon studios has stated the show has paid off so your opinion isnt supported by any facts.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

My god you keep doing this. It's "their"!

They're: They are
There: Location. Hey go over there!
Their: Ownership. Amazon is using their rights to rings of power to make the series.

I really couldn't care less about grammar rules.

[Fencers]

Lord of the Rings is one of the largest and most valuable brands in literature, cinema, game companie

It is valuable. Not to the degree of Marvel, Star Wars, Avatar or Harry Potter though.

Nothing is more valuable than Marvel and Star Wars. Absolutely nothing.

great engagement in all those areas. And has done so for years.

No. Not at all.

The brand needed repositioning because it's engagement was very low at time of acquisition.

[Fabinas]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...dia_franchises

In terms of value it seems like there are plenty of media franchises that are higher. The largest claim is also suspect as Star Wars has more games, cinema, and literature then Tolkien. Do you any evidence to back up your claim? The Tolkien Estate could grow it into what you claim since they seem more open to expansion/development.

Evidence? You have gave it yourself, argumenting towards the success of the show, the books sold by Amazon etc. You have provided tons of pages of "evidence"

Not interested in discussing anything with the likes of you, anyway.

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It is valuable. Not to the degree of Marvel, Star Wars, Avatar or Harry Potter though.

Nothing is more valuable than Marvel and Star Wars. Absolutely nothing.

No. Not at all.

The brand needed repositioning because it's engagement was very low at time of acquisition.

If you mean "engagement" as in the metrics of the industry, maybe so. You're the expert in that.

However, there's a lot of people actually engaging with LotR content of films, books and games for years .

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Oh hey the liar is still posting ONE OF was the terminology used if you are going to attempt to badly play word games then actually read what you are quoting.

Gotta ask, how should we be defining “one of the largest” because through out the thread many posters have said RoP hasn’t been large at one point or another for not being in the say the top 10 of some charts and but when looking at the franchise as a whole they are about 60th. Like would you say RoP was one of the largest show releases if it’s say in the top 60 and those who say it wasn’t that big are wrong?

how should we be realistically using this terminology.

[Fabinas]

I really couldn't care less about grammar rules.

We really couldn't care about any of your arguments, then, since we cba to actually decipher your mistake ridden text.

It's also common courtesy to edit grammar and spelling mistakes you see later.

Not that you're the only guilty person, but don't try to dismiss that.