Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[rogoth]

So that's a yes your just gonna keep spreading bullshit you made up out of thin air, got it.

what part of 'it's in the public domain on the website for the creators' is me 'making up bullshit'?, it's curious how you easily conflate things and come to the absolute wrong conclusion every time and still think you're in the right, it takes a special sort of mentality to be that delusional.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

what part of 'it's in the public domain on the website for the creators' is me 'making up bullshit'?,

All of it, you made abunch of claims you apparently cant back up and are now just saying they are real and are out there some where just like saying you saw Big Foot or a Unicorn and all we need to do is go outside and look for it and it will be there.

it's curious how you easily conflate things and come to the absolute wrong conclusion every time and still think you're in the right, it takes a special sort of mentality to be that delusional.

You are projecting so hard here geeze.

[rhorle]

what part of 'it's in the public domain on the website for the creators' is me 'making up bullshit'?, it's curious how you easily conflate things and come to the absolute wrong conclusion every time and still think you're in the right, it takes a special sort of mentality to be that delusional.

https://press.amazonstudios.com/us/e...for-season-two
https://press.amazonstudios.com/us/e...ting-for-the-s

Those are the two press releases from after Reacher debuted. It makes no mention of 85% of prime subscribers watching the show. So either explain yourself or stop lying about things.

[rogoth]

All of it, you made abunch of claims you apparently cant back up and are now just saying they are real and are out there some where just like saying you saw Big Foot or a Unicorn and all we need to do is go outside and look for it and it will be there.

You are projecting so hard here geeze.

https://decider.com/2022/03/03/reach...tings-nielsen/
a direct quote from that article:

Nielsen’s Weekly Streaming Top 10 report for the week ending Feb. 6, 2022, counted an impressive 1.843 billion minutes of viewing pleasure for Reacher.

based on viewing numbers, because it was a Prime video exclusive, it shows that the vast majority of people with an amazon prime account (at the time of release) viewed the show, with approximately 66% of viewers being older middle aged individuals (the majority of those being men).

https://www.joblo.com/reacher-is-alr...atched-series/

this article shows that it was so popular that it was the first time an Amazon prime video show was top of the Nielsen ratings, once again showing the level of engagement from (at the time of release) those with an Amazon prime account.

this is all from just a quick cursory search if i was overly bothered i could likely find tons more references, but to quote yourself, 'i am le tired and can't be bothered'.

happy now? or are you just gonna keep this tirade up like you have been doing for months now because apparently you're not happy until the point is no longer possible to argue from any side.

lastly, if you wanna act like a twat, at least get your point straight before doing so, it just makes you look even worse than you already do otherwise.

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https://press.amazonstudios.com/us/e...for-season-two
https://press.amazonstudios.com/us/e...ting-for-the-s

Those are the two press releases from after Reacher debuted. It makes no mention of 85% of prime subscribers watching the show. So either explain yourself or stop lying about things.

see above, furthermore, learn to fucking read what's presented, then learn how to properly comprehend it, you have failed on so many occasions in just this thread alone to misinterpret correctly what's presented to you, and have failed on countless occasions when using your bad faith arguements to comprehend properly what's actually been written it's impressive really.

and just to make the point crystal clear:

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/asse...eport-2022.pdf

quote: The most-watched programmes on Amazon Prime Video and Disney+ rank below Netflix’s top titles,
largely explained by the platforms’ lower subscriber bases.

and quote: Amazon Prime Video
titles in H1 2022, puts Amazon’s most-watched programme in 27th place: the thriller series Reacher
was watched in 3.3 million UK households.

quote: Netflix and Amazon Prime Video both
saw their base of subscribing households decline in Q2 2022 – Netflix by around 210,000 and
Amazon Prime Video by around 590,000

quote: one person commented on Amazon prime video '“I had a subscription to Amazon Prime but had this solely for free delivery on Amazon orders. I
found it extremely difficult to find out when live sports games were on Amazon and have never
renewed it.” Man, 75+'

this shows just how little Amazon prime is accessed outside of the US and the vast majority of audiences are US based for their tv shows and movies userbase, so next time you try and make some asinine arguement about engagement metrics, make sure you have a point because up to this point every single comment you have made has been a waste of bandwidth filled with nothing but complete and utter dross.

[rhorle]

based on viewing numbers, because it was a Prime video exclusive, it shows that the vast majority of people with an amazon prime account (at the time of release) viewed the show

This part is not in the articles you linked. Strange how it went from 85% to vast majority. Doesn't that mean that even more watched Rings of Power since the minutes streamed is greater than Reacher? So did Rings of Power get 90%? Did The Boys get 95% since it had more minutes streamed as well? You bring a kernel of truth then lie about the rest of your points.

So take your own advice about acting poorly without having a point straight.

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see above, furthermore, learn to fucking read what's presented, then learn how to properly comprehend it, you have failed on so many occasions in just this thread alone to misinterpret correctly what's presented to you, and have failed on countless occasions when using your bad faith arguements to comprehend properly what's actually been written it's impressive really.

You said it was on the official site for Amazon. The "above" you reference is not an official site for Amazon or the show. The only one failing here is yourself and as usual you lash out and attack because you backed yourself into a corner that you can't get out of.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

https://decider.com/2022/03/03/reach...tings-nielsen/
a direct quote from that article:

Nielsen’s Weekly Streaming Top 10 report for the week ending Feb. 6, 2022, counted an impressive 1.843 billion minutes of viewing pleasure for Reacher.

based on viewing numbers, because it was a Prime video exclusive, it shows that the vast majority of people with an amazon prime account (at the time of release) viewed the show, with approximately 66% of viewers being older middle aged individuals (the majority of those being men).

https://www.joblo.com/reacher-is-alr...atched-series/

this article shows that it was so popular that it was the first time an Amazon prime video show was top of the Nielsen ratings, once again showing the level of engagement from (at the time of release) those with an Amazon prime account.

this is all from just a quick cursory search if i was overly bothered i could likely find tons more references, but to quote yourself, 'i am le tired and can't be bothered'.

happy now? or are you just gonna keep this tirade up like you have been doing for months now because apparently you're not happy until the point is no longer possible to argue from any side.

Oh Yes I am incredibly happy because you just proved that you are in fact just making up bullshit out of thin air as this was your orginal claim

3)compare that to the likes of 'Reacher' which launched earlier in the year which saw almost 85% of all people with a prime account watch it either as it released or shortly thereafter,

I had even read both of those articles already but then dismissed them as they didn't support your Claim and figured you might have other sources I couldn't find, But no you were just spreading bullshit.

lastly, if you wanna act like a twat, at least get your point straight before doing so, it just makes you look even worse than you already do otherwise.

OH the delicious Irony.

[Fencers]

"I'm right because I work in the industry, but I can't explain why."

What a compelling argument.

You desire for me to argue with you on a fantasy scenario you made up?

I am right because I talked about facts. Not hypotheticals about incorrect terminology and methodology.

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so just to be clear: anything that exists outside of digital imprint is irrelevant?

Irrelvent to this conversation, yes.

Media engagement is not 'general engagement' meaning anyone who has consumed a product. These are different things.

You are mistaken.

[Syegfryed]

I don't think you know what the industry means by engagement. Engagement is simply how many instances of interaction and visibility exists for your product.

Engagement has nothing to do with what people are saying, minutes viewed, overall viewership. It has nothing to do with the platform. The platforms can not and do not even track engagement.

Engagment is a broad method of interactions that are tracked by social media analysts and only measures the instances of interactions. Visitation, amplification, advocacy, contribution, content permission, informational distribution among a given set of category and non-category user interaction.

You start saying social media is not engagement t but then say it is engagement, if the show is not talk about and not searched in said social media, i see like it didn't make success with the public, even if there was 8milion of minutes watched

There is no such thing. Even if there were, it wouldn't mean anything to the business criteria for a streaming platform.

There is such a thing of subjectivity in those works, but it does not hold much because even trash can make success yes, but that was not the case here.

But again, if the show is good or bad is not a matter of subjective opinion, if people liked or not is subjective, the show is objectively bad, but people, even fi rare still enjoyed.

Also, entirely your personal opinion based on feeling. Both are irrelevant and inaccurate.

If it were easy, other distros that command larger and more valuable brands than Lord of the Rings would have done better than 15th. None did. Except for Amazon

Nope, not my opinion, the IP is strong and they have a massive fanbase, look at the hobbit, bad movies but were able to do success

That isn't how it works, really. "Greenlit" is the wrong terminology here too. If you knew the process you wouldn't make that error. You would know what a production suite being renewed is and means. The long and short of it is, Amazon don't "have to make" anything and they wouldn't if it had no market viability.

They have to make it because they paid for it, if they stop now they lost 1 billion that they can't make back

And, as you said yourself, as trash as the show can be, and next to zero engagement from the fanbase, still become a success by arbitrary metrics, so there is no reason to stop doing it

[rhorle]

All that this really is about is that you know there's something to my argument, so you're just trying to bluff your way out of it with "I'm in the industry and I know things".

But you have no proof that several recent shows have been able to top streaming charts just because it was given away free to Amazon customers. You are purposefully ignoring your own argument to hyper focus on to something that wasn't called into question. Prime Video has always been free for Prime subscribers. If what you say is true then wouldn't every show have topped the streaming charts because of having access to "200 million subscribers"?

Again, I think that’s more a result of them basically giving away a free sub as an add on to their delivery service which already had 200 mill subscribers. That’s what separates them from Disney and HBO.

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They have to make it because they paid for it, if they stop now they lost 1 billion that they can't make back

They already made it back. Even if they didn't you drastically under estimate how much Amazon makes. Not to mention they could use Hollywood Accounting to make it beneficial for the company.

[Fencers]

You start saying social media is not engagement t but then say it is engagement

No? I did not say this at all regarding engagement. You may be mistaken about terminology.

But again, if the show is good or bad is not a matter of subjective opinion, if people liked or not is subjective, the show is objectively bad, but people, even fi rare still enjoyed.

Everything related to the quality of an artistic or creative work is subjective. There are no tracking metrics otherwise. You can not present a PRL with "good show" in it. That doesn't exist.

Nope, not my opinion

It is. Being impressed is entirely your opinion here. LOTR isn't as big a property as Marvel, Harry Potter, Star Wars, et cetera.

No one else managed to get their shows, wielding those IPs, in the top 15. Just Amazon.

This isn't a matter of opinion. The data was provided by Nielsen, it is an industry-standard. Amazon and other studios are already moving forward with the data from January.

They have to make it because they paid for it, if they stop now they lost 1 billion that they can't make back

That's not how they make their money back. Amazon doesn't have to make more of any show. Doesn't work like that, my dude.

Amazon would stop ordering any show if it had low engagement or was otherwise unable to be packaged. To hold the rights to anything is immensely valuable. To be able to package any IP you own and any production or suites owned- even more valuable. That is the purpose of IP acquisition.

It's not a fantasy scenario.

A hypothetical scenario where you made up metrics nobody uses within the business to determine how popular you are supposing a book series is in relation to the performance of a streaming show or other major IPs?

Fantasy.

Amazon did give prime video to all its customers who subscribed to prime for delivery.

Their revenue model for Prime Video is not strictly a subscriber base. Some of that is categorized as ancillary. This is not what Amazon bases the performance of its shows on.

All that this really is about is that you know there's something to my argument, so you're just trying to bluff your way out of it with "I'm in the industry and I know things".

I don't even know what your argument is actually. It just seems like a bunch of your feelings.

There is no argument to be had. The data is collected. Decisions have already been made based on the consumer data collected by Nielsen, OTS, and so on. In fact, it's kinda old news. I just happened to notice it a few days later.

The only relevance of working in market research is I can see data points not freely available to the public. Which I have not shared or mentioned. I mentioned specifically the Nielsen data- which is free to everyone. If you ask me questions on how their data is collected or used, I can answer that accurately.

If you are a shareholder you can get a lot of information for free too. Quarterly reports are free, IIRC. I don't know when the next Shareholder call is but Disney's running their call on the 8th.

I don't own Amazon stock. Maybe you do? Take a look or request documentation as you see fit.

You are arguing with the blunt data.

[Fabinas]

It's not a fantasy scenario. Amazon did give prime video to all its customers who subscribed to prime for delivery. Not sure you understand what fantasy is.

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It's not a fantasy scenario. Amazon did give prime video to all its customers who subscribed to prime for delivery. Not sure you understand what fantasy is.

All that this really is about is that you know there's something to my argument, so you're just trying to bluff your way out of it with "I'm in the industry and I know things".

No, it is not.

Stop arguing with Fencers. She has gone out of her way to explain to all of us that "engagement" in the corporate movie/tv production and distribution industry is something different than what we as users understand and perceive.

It has also nothing to do with the quality of the show, whatever that may mean to any of us.

The fact that only RoP managed to reach the top 15 for Nielsen ratings means that, whatever the reason people had prime (as a tv service or free for their already paid prime delivery service) for the above mention industry, the show was successful.

For me as a viewer it was a trainwreck and an abomination. However, it's not the first time that corporate execs use statistics and metrics that frame their products as successful, while the public hates them. Hell, even hateposting in social media or hateviewing is counted as "engagement" and adds to their success.

Let this serve as a warning to all of us.

[Veggie50]

Dear god, this entire page is just “no, u!”

[bledgor]

No, it is not.

Stop arguing with Fencers. She has gone out of her way to explain to all of us that "engagement" in the corporate movie/tv production and distribution industry is something different than what we as users understand and perceive.

It has also nothing to do with the quality of the show, whatever that may mean to any of us.

The fact that only RoP managed to reach the top 15 for Nielsen ratings means that, whatever the reason people had prime (as a tv service or free for their already paid prime delivery service) for the above mention industry, the show was successful.

For me as a viewer it was a trainwreck and an abomination. However, it's not the first time that corporate execs use statistics and metrics that frame their products as successful, while the public hates them. Hell, even hateposting in social media or hateviewing is counted as "engagement" and adds to their success.

Let this serve as a warning to all of us.

I mean to be fair they had a massive mostly free video service with the greatest trilogy of all time and barely made top 15 while earning 0 awards. Not much of a success.

[Syegfryed]

Everything related to the quality of an artistic or creative work is subjective. There are no tracking metrics otherwise. You can not present a PRL with "good show" in it. That doesn't exist.

No its not, and there is metrics to determine if a work is good or not with objective points.

By example, if the actors are saying their lines like they read yesterday, with no effort, like they are reading from a paper, is not good acting, period. The show is bad, There is countless of bad points already discussed here in the topic.

It is. Being impressed is entirely your opinion here. LOTR isn't as big a property as Marvel, Harry Potter, Star Wars, et cetera.

Im not talking which is bigger, but you are out of your mind to say lotr isn't as big as those other stuff, knowing how much the books are sold and how well the first trilogy went

Is "not as big" that they paid fucking a billion for some of the rights

That's not how they make their money back. Amazon doesn't have to make more of any show. Doesn't work like that, my dude.

Ok, they paid 1 billion for the 4/5 seasons, and they can just, not make said seasons, and its all dandy, because they don't need to. what its matter is that they have the IP that will make back the money they spend in a short while.

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Stop arguing with Fencers. She has gone out of her way to explain to all of us that "engagement" in the corporate movie/tv production and distribution industry is something different than what we as users understand and perceive

I said once, RoP success is like when your mom give you money to make lemonade, but your father buys all, because no one else did, you can say it was successful because all the thing was sold. This is the kind of metric used.

Let alone that the chart show 9.4 million "minutes watched" for the season, and they said 8milions or the first episode/premiere, that means only 1m for the rest of the season, and if that is true, no matter how metric you use, this only can be seeing as a failure, thats low engagement and low numbers.

[rhorle]

Let's say Apple did something similar to what Amazon did, and made Apple TV+ a free addon for anyone who buys an iPhone. Then Ted Lasso would unquestionably make it into the top 15 streaming shows, but Apple would lose revenue because they made Apple TV+ free.

Would it? Not every Amazon show has made it into the top 15. You are wrongly assuming that everyone would watch a show if they get access for free. Apple does give 3 months free when buying a new Apple device. Do you have evidence that their shows see a large boost in minutes streamed around product launches? Apple TV is also $168 for two years ($7x24). So they could easily add that cost to that of the Iphone and not lose any revenue.

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I mean to be fair they had a massive mostly free video service with the greatest trilogy of all time and barely made top 15 while earning 0 awards. Not much of a success.

The over all top 15 from Nielsen is half reruns so position on the charts doesn't mean much at all.

[Veggie50]

When the reality you need to believe turns out to be false, you have to do all you can to handwave it away

It's a pretty good show of arrogance, if nothing else.

Agreed, it seems both sides believe they’re on the right side of that argument though xD

[Fencers]

No its not, and there is metrics to determine if a work is good or not with objective points.

If that were so, everyone would use these metrics and make nothing but "objectively good" things.

Spoiler: no such thing exists.

By example, if the actors are saying their lines like they read yesterday, with no effort, like they are reading from a paper, is not good acting, period. The show is bad, There is countless of bad points already discussed here in the topic.

All subjective.

Im not talking which is bigger, but you are out of your mind to say lotr isn't as big as those other stuff,

It isn't. Look it up.

The highest data value point of engagement in the last 3 years for LOTR was 8. The lowest for Star War was 12. Harry Potter was 17.

Even if you don't have access to ProData or Quckstats, a simple Google Trends comparison has the last 5 years LOTR the least among Marvel, Star Wars, and Harry Potter.

Lord of the Rings is valuable, never said it was not, though it is not on the level of other properties. Go look it up.

The LOTR films in total, all 3, barely did the numbers of singular Marvel films. This information is on Wikipedia if you want to look that up.

Is "not as big" that they paid fucking a billion for some of the rights

That isn't a lot. They got it for a bargain.

Ok, they paid 1 billion for the 4/5 seasons

They paid to be able to produce a property they own and can leverage freely. They own wholly Rings of Power as a property. Amazon only needed to make one episode if they so desired.

Truthfully, if these companies could dole out content in 1-minute shorts (so to speak) they totally would. What keeps them from doing so is consumer habits. Consumers have an expectation that a series is a half-hour to hour content block.

Companies and media researchers have tried to pitch shorter, much shorter, content duration for years. Some have actively worked on international markets and investors are constantly asking about shorter content delivery. There was a platform that tried it recently and failed big time- again, consumer habit. But the investment was there because that is an attractive model to clients and property owners to give you content in shorter duration format.

It is coming, the day of the 2-3m per episode series, not yet. But it is going to happen.

[Rennadrel]

And, as you said yourself, as trash as the show can be, and next to zero engagement from the fanbase, still become a success by arbitrary metrics, so there is no reason to stop doing it

The definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over again expecting different results. That is kinda how I view how Amazon has been handling this show in light of it doing poorly relative to the budget that they've spent on production and licensing, and the overall viewership numbers jumping the shark rather quickly as season one went on.

So they sidelined the showrunners for season two and decided to bring in a couple of other people who are also significantly lacking in experience producing a show, thinking that it'll somehow be better. I've said it before but Prime Studios has a massive problem with nepotism from their upper management. Jennifer Salke needs to be canned because there's no way you can let literal nobodies keep producing these high budget projects and not get significant ROI from it in terms of viewers. Either that or at the very least there needs to be creative oversight over these projects from upper management to ensure the shows are successful by holding the producers accountable and not letting garbage get released to the public.

[bledgor]

The LOTR films in total, all 3, barely did the numbers of singular Marvel films. This information is on Wikipedia if you want to look that up.

I mean this is a pretty stretched logic to introduce. Sounds like a typical BS stats defense. Lets ignore things like the minimal increase of 50% in ticket prices (yes the first phase the tickets weren't 50% but only $1.50 more, but by the time of big money makers the price of tickets had gone up over 50%). Not to mention even people in the movie industry are pointing out how soulless and vanilla comic book movies are, they are literally the fast food/Mcdonalds of movies.

Also you act like Marvel series had a bunch of movies get close, it was literally only Endgame/Infinity War, a pair of films with what a 20 movie build up?

The 3 LOTR movies made ~3 billion dollars, are among the highest grossing film series EVER (with Hobbit they are 12th, without it they would be 22nd). All of phase 1 BARELY earned more money than the 3 movies dd, and if you include The Hobbit it wasn't till phase 3 that marvel beat them out in a singular series (it would have taken all of phase 1 and half of phase 2 to edge them out).

Not to mention the sheer accolades that the trilogy has received (won 17 out of 30 Academy awards), the fact it is widely considered the best fantasy series/movies, and even is in the national film registry of the Library of congress for being so significant.

Like I get you like stats, how about how many people finished the series vs started it? You know why we will never get that stat from amazon? The show lost A LOT of people before the end, because it was a piss poor adaptation with some terrible dialogue, bad pacing and story lines, basically carried by music, visuals, and one of the greatest legacies one could ever ask for topped with a larger budget in ONE SEASON than the entire original trilogy combined.

[Syegfryed]

If that were so, everyone would use these metrics and make nothing but "objectively good" things.

Spoiler: no such thing exists.

All subjective.

Thats a dumb take, because those objectively good things require, time, talent and effort, if you don't have those you can't do good things, even if you want to.

You know you have to hire good actors, but you don't, because any reasons, this will drag your work down, this is the same for the script, the direction and all, otherwise all movies would be good and therw would not be bad movies..

Even if you don't have access to ProData or Quckstats, a simple Google Trends comparison has the last 5 years LOTR the least among Marvel, Star Wars, and Harry Potter.

You want to compare a movie from 20 years ago to shit that happens recently? cause we had thestar wars sequel and fantastical beasts, lord of the rings didn't have much apart from a trilogy 10 years ago. Hell, HP have the game going on increasing people engagement, it was the most sold game a month before release in all plataforms.

And LOTR are still holding up, like you said, even with nothing going and a trash show to lower their credibility lol.

The LOTR films in total, all 3, barely did the numbers of singular Marvel films. This information is on Wikipedia if you want to look that up.

Numbers of what? oscars? money? tickets sold? what we are talking about here?

That isn't a lot. They got it for a bargain.

Well, maybe 1 billion isn't a lot for bezos, but the money comes from somewhere, and need to come back.

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The definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over again expecting different results. That is kinda how I view how Amazon has been handling this show in light of it doing poorly relative to the budget that they've spent on production and licensing, and the overall viewership numbers jumping the shark rather quickly as season one went on.

But thats the big problem, as long they make into that chart, and have "x millions of minutes watched" they think they are succeeding, so, they are fine with getting the same result, because by those metrics, the result is a success.(let alone how those "minutes watched" is a very sus metric to use)

I mean, i don't remember if wheel of time manage to go to those charts, but they are still making another season, so they reach a number of minutes to be considered a success in their metrics, and tis fine to do another, even if its trash like RoP.

So they sidelined the showrunners for season two and decided to bring in a couple of other people who are also significantly lacking in experience producing a show, thinking that it'll somehow be better. I've said it before but Prime Studios has a massive problem with nepotism from their upper management. Jennifer Salke needs to be canned because there's no way you can let literal nobodies keep producing these high budget projects and not get significant ROI from it in terms of viewers. Either that or at the very least there needs to be creative oversight over these projects from upper management to ensure the shows are successful by holding the producers accountable and not letting garbage get released to the public.

That woman is crazy in the head, that lady AXED the Conan series that was in development because "it was too manly", and fired the dudes working on it, what they did? went to HBO and made House of the dragon, one of the best shows last year. And conan show had so much potential.


I seriously don't know how those people can fail upwards, they fail and get another or even a better job to do, is nuts.