1. #8701
    Quote Originally Posted by Fabinas View Post
    I would really like to know which brands do you think were larger and more valuable than Lord of the Rings and the criteria that led to this opinion.
    A bit surprising that no Disney Plus show has hit the top 15 in 2022. But I do admit Disney Plus had a lackluster 2022 lineup, with Obi-Wan being mediocre and Andor not really getting the mainstream attention that it should have. Their Marvel series weren't very strong either.

  2. #8702
    The Unstoppable Force rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fabinas View Post
    Lord of the Rings is one of the largest and most valuable brands in literature, cinema, game companies and has a great engagement in all those areas. And has done so for years.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...dia_franchises

    In terms of value it seems like there are plenty of media franchises that are higher. The largest claim is also suspect as Star Wars has more games, cinema, and literature then Tolkien. Do you any evidence to back up your claim? The Tolkien Estate could grow it into what you claim since they seem more open to expansion/development.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  3. #8703
    The Unstoppable Force rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    If you don’t have kids, Disney doesn’t produce enough compelling content to make it worth the sub. You can subscribe for a month, watch everything you want to see, then be sure there are no hidden gems left to find. Netflix and HBO Max don’t have that problem with adult subscribers.
    Disney+ has Encanto, Bluey, and The Simpsons in the Nielsen top 15 for Overall for 2022. The entire top 15 Overall is higher then 5th or lower place on the Originals list. It really has nothing to do with compelling content but the category definitions reporting services use.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  4. #8704
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Trival. To just have the rights of production and distribution, they have already made that back.

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    Self reportable is meaningless. The industry market analysis decides what is successful. What any distro has to say about that is irrelevant.

    Rings of Power is successful. It was one of only two streaming shows in the top 15 for the year that was not owned and distributed by Netflix. Amazon has nothing to do with that reportage.

    That's not what the industry cares about or uses as a means for streaming show viability. Total minutes viewed is the standard. Those numbers are publicly available.

    Even if Amazon for whatever reason want to publish their viewership- it would still not mean anything because Rings of Power is still a only available in the US as a streaming show.

    When you see reportage from HBO/Warner or NBC/Uni of viewership it is because their content airs on non-streaming platforms as well. Which qualifies as both original and acquired programming in some cases. These are a totally different set of market criteria for media than streaming.

    So it is meaningful and useful to the market to report The Last of Us has 6 million viewers. But would not be appropriate for Stranger Things or Rings of Power. In fact, it would be laughable and seen negatively to report such of the former.

    There is a case for P18-49 and possibly P2-/+. But streaming is not divided by quarters or quad demos so it's kinda useless in the industry.
    They have absolutely not made that back rofl

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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    I was expecting more when you said "the top 15", but they are just the 15th place, that was a bit sad. And that is like, almost all the shows that aired, of course they would make to it somehow lol
    Seriously I haven't even heard of half of these lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post

    That is fine. I am aware the show is controversial. I have no opinion on the creative of the show. Strictly speaking on the analytics side; this was impressive for Amazon.

    I think they greenlit Season 2 with new packaging recently and with a renewed production suite. That's money. They wouldn't do that if it was a poor-performing product.

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    Look up the concept of a sunk cost they absolutely would.

  5. #8705
    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    RoP cost Amazon a billion dollars. The fact that with a budget of more than Peter Jackson's LOTR trilogy combined, the first season was a massive failure for views. And that should be embarrassing enough to Bezos to can the people involved in making that shoddy first season. Guess what? He didn't intervene and continues to allow Jennifer Salke to do whatever the fuck she wants when it comes to who she hires to run their shows and we wind up with a couple of literal nobodies for season one of RoP and that was the result. So now she's replacing them with a couple of women who one of was involved in Rafe of Time which was trash too. So daddy Bezos can enjoy another few hundred million being pissed down the drain on season two of this colossal dumpster fire of a show.

    And don't take me ripping on this show as me hating it for the sake of hating it. I legitimately want something good set in Tolkien's world, even if it isn't something he explicitly fleshed out himself. Because I love his work and his universe, but it deserves to be respected and that is not what the creators are doing by any stretch. I'd rather see something awful fail than tread on the legacy of a great writer.
    If you call 100 million plus viewers a failure then every show in existance is a complete failure, and its the first 2 seasons thats costing around 1 billion including buying the rights to use the stuff, the show has done better than most shows released even in the short time its been out.

    The company doesnt have enough rights to produce a show that could ever be a faithfull adaptation on LOTR so anyone expecting otherwise has unrealistic expectations, you were never going to get tolkien so you were always going to be unhappy, more than enough ppl like the show as it is so it doesnt matter is a small minority dont like it.
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  6. #8706
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...dia_franchises

    In terms of value it seems like there are plenty of media franchises that are higher. The largest claim is also suspect as Star Wars has more games, cinema, and literature then Tolkien. Do you any evidence to back up your claim? The Tolkien Estate could grow it into what you claim since they seem more open to expansion/development.
    Oh hey the liar is still posting ONE OF was the terminology used if you are going to attempt to badly play word games then actually read what you are quoting.

  7. #8707
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    They have absolutely not made that back rofl
    SANDERS: It’s been a tremendous success for us, it performed incredibly well around the globe. It is by far our biggest scripted series, it is the most acquisitive show that we’ve put out. After we finished releasing episodes, we saw a new surge of people come to the service to start the show. We’ve already released the fact that we’re over 100 million, and the number has gone up since then, it’s millions and millions beyond that.

    We are really proud that the show drove renewed interest in the books, we saw spikes in book sales. It’s just been a company-wide success and as significant as our investment has been, it has more than paid off for us.

    So the co head of television of amazon studios has stated the show has paid off so your opinion isnt supported by any facts.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  8. #8708
    Merely a Setback Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    My god you keep doing this. It's "their"!

    They're: They are
    There: Location. Hey go over there!
    Their: Ownership. Amazon is using their rights to rings of power to make the series.
    I really couldn't care less about grammar rules.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  9. #8709
    Quote Originally Posted by Fabinas View Post
    Lord of the Rings is one of the largest and most valuable brands in literature, cinema, game companie
    It is valuable. Not to the degree of Marvel, Star Wars, Avatar or Harry Potter though.

    Nothing is more valuable than Marvel and Star Wars. Absolutely nothing.

    great engagement in all those areas. And has done so for years.
    No. Not at all.

    The brand needed repositioning because it's engagement was very low at time of acquisition.

  10. #8710
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...dia_franchises

    In terms of value it seems like there are plenty of media franchises that are higher. The largest claim is also suspect as Star Wars has more games, cinema, and literature then Tolkien. Do you any evidence to back up your claim? The Tolkien Estate could grow it into what you claim since they seem more open to expansion/development.
    Evidence? You have gave it yourself, argumenting towards the success of the show, the books sold by Amazon etc. You have provided tons of pages of "evidence"

    Not interested in discussing anything with the likes of you, anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    It is valuable. Not to the degree of Marvel, Star Wars, Avatar or Harry Potter though.

    Nothing is more valuable than Marvel and Star Wars. Absolutely nothing.

    No. Not at all.

    The brand needed repositioning because it's engagement was very low at time of acquisition.
    If you mean "engagement" as in the metrics of the industry, maybe so. You're the expert in that.

    However, there's a lot of people actually engaging with LotR content of films, books and games for years .
    /spit@Blizzard

  11. #8711
    Merely a Setback Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    Oh hey the liar is still posting ONE OF was the terminology used if you are going to attempt to badly play word games then actually read what you are quoting.
    Gotta ask, how should we be defining “one of the largest” because through out the thread many posters have said RoP hasn’t been large at one point or another for not being in the say the top 10 of some charts and but when looking at the franchise as a whole they are about 60th. Like would you say RoP was one of the largest show releases if it’s say in the top 60 and those who say it wasn’t that big are wrong?

    how should we be realistically using this terminology.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  12. #8712
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    I really couldn't care less about grammar rules.
    We really couldn't care about any of your arguments, then, since we cba to actually decipher your mistake ridden text.

    It's also common courtesy to edit grammar and spelling mistakes you see later.

    Not that you're the only guilty person, but don't try to dismiss that.
    /spit@Blizzard

  13. #8713
    Merely a Setback Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fabinas View Post
    We really couldn't care about any of your arguments, then, since we cba to actually decipher your mistake ridden text.

    It's also common courtesy to edit grammar and spelling mistakes you see later.

    Not that you're the only guilty person, but don't try to dismiss that.
    If you have to “decipher” what context I’m using “there” in I don’t think you have any thing of worth to add to any of my arguments any way.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  14. #8714
    Quote Originally Posted by Fabinas View Post

    If you mean "engagement" as in the metrics of the industry, maybe so. You're the expert in that.

    However, there's a lot of people actually engaging with LotR content of films, books and games for years .
    FWIW, I don't think superfans re-watching their copies of the Extended Edition DVDs do much for "the brand" in an executive's mind. Like, I have all 3 LOTR movies on DVD and my friends and I watch them during the holidays, but that doesn't make anyone any money, and doesn't expand the brand.

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    Also, do not police other people's grammar. It is explicitly against the rules of this forum. Not everyone speaks English as a first language, and because we require all posts to be in English, policing grammar is considered trolling.

    CF: Only post in English. As English is not everyone's native language, we ask you to not correct other people's posts unless you are asked to. Do not quote dictionary entries for the sake of arguing. Don't be the grammar police.

  15. #8715
    Quote Originally Posted by Fabinas View Post
    If you mean "engagement" as in the metrics of the industry, maybe so. You're the expert in that.
    Yes. LOTR is a long running franchise brand. But has nowhere near the interaction points of Marvel or Star Wars.


    However, there's a lot of people actually engaging with LotR content of films, books and games for years .
    Of course. As I said, bigger brands tried and failed.

    Disney, WBD, Uni- they spent money and threw a lot at Netflix. None broke through the Netflix content wall. Amazon did.

  16. #8716
    The Unstoppable Force rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    Oh hey the liar is still posting ONE OF was the terminology used if you are going to attempt to badly play word games then actually read what you are quoting.
    It isn't close to the top of that list. If you are using one of to refer to everything on the list then that is an attempt a word games. Technically correct but functionally meaningless. Which is why you had to rabidly attack over it rather then trying to make an argument for why it is one of the most valuable even though it is far down the list.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    On topic: it's entirely possible Amazon views this as a success - it got a lot of people to realize that prime video exists... honestly I am a prime member and I barely pay attention to it - and if you don't know any better you would think that it's an ok, generic series, but it was still a terrible adaptation of a beloved property.
    The Judge of it being a good adaptation is the Tolkien Estate. They (or just Christoper) considered the Jackson films to be a poor adaptation. They have never seemed to be looking for a 1:1 adaptation. Just one that captures the spirit of Tolkien.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fabinas View Post
    Evidence? You have gave it yourself, argumenting towards the success of the show, the books sold by Amazon etc. You have provided tons of pages of "evidence" Not interested in discussing anything with the likes of you, anyway.
    Are you confused? I am not asking for you to provide evidence that it is a popular or successful IP. I am asking for you to prove that it is one of the most valuable ones around. The reason why you are not interested in discussing is because you know you can't back up your claim with evidence.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  17. #8717
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    Again, I think that’s more a result of them basically giving away a free sub as an add on to their delivery service which already had 200 mill subscribers. That’s what separates them from Disney and HBO.
    No.


    /10chars

  18. #8718
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    No.


    /10chars
    I have to hard disagree with you there, unless you have some data strongly indicating otherwise, because literally everyone I know has prime for the delivery, and because they have it a few of them watch some tv on it. If prime was on its own I can off the top of my head remove 10 subscribers from just my family and friends.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
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  19. #8719
    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    I have to hard disagree with you there, unless you have some data strongly indicating otherwise, because literally everyone I know has prime for the delivery, and because they have it a few of them watch some tv on it. If prime was on its own I can off the top of my head remove 10 subscribers from just my family and friends.
    Yeah, it's akin to Disney+: their streaming service isn't what's making the money and keeping the streaming service alive, it's another service. In the case of Disney, their streaming service (even admitted by Disney themselves) is losing insane amounts of money every quarter... but they lump it into their amusement parks budget, which is actually profitable.

    It's not surprising that Amazon Prime's streaming service and Prime original content creation isn't really the main drive either, as it's lumped into something that everyone has and desires, i.e. Prime shipping. I wouldn't even be surprised if the majority of Prime members don't even know or have never even viewed the streaming service. Again, there's a bunch of interviews and articles that delve into how Rings of Power needed to be a big win to justify even having original content creation for Prime because monetarily it wasn't worth it, and the metrics indicate that RoP got nowhere near what Amazon wanted it to be.

    In general, there's been a push to bundle streaming services together with other products/services, and the main reason is likely no one wants them. Disney+ is a great example of this, as they have to give it away for free with stuff or bundle it into other services (while generally making it hard to unbundle it) yet still operate at a massive deficit constantly. When it comes to Prime streaming service, it was just piggybacked off of something that was already massively successful, but I wouldn't be surprised if the original content creation side of the Prime streaming service was bleeding money.
    “Society is endangered not by the great profligacy of a few, but by the laxity of morals amongst all.”
    “It's not an endlessly expanding list of rights — the 'right' to education, the 'right' to health care, the 'right' to food and housing. That's not freedom, that's dependency. Those aren't rights, those are the rations of slavery — hay and a barn for human cattle.”
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  20. #8720
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    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    FWIW, I don't think superfans re-watching their copies of the Extended Edition DVDs do much for "the brand" in an executive's mind. Like, I have all 3 LOTR movies on DVD and my friends and I watch them during the holidays, but that doesn't make anyone any money, and doesn't expand the brand.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also, do not police other people's grammar. It is explicitly against the rules of this forum. Not everyone speaks English as a first language, and because we require all posts to be in English, policing grammar is considered trolling.

    CF: Only post in English. As English is not everyone's native language, we ask you to not correct other people's posts unless you are asked to. Do not quote dictionary entries for the sake of arguing. Don't be the grammar police.
    Agreed. However, my intention was not to police his grammar. Someone else tried to explain a common mistake for many non native english speakers, with no judgement at all, and this helpful suggestion was replied with a snarky defiant remark.

    It is this that i replied to, the "I really couldn't care less about grammar rules". When someone tries to be helpful and you dismiss them like that, you are not discussing in good faith and that was what i intended to showcase with my post.

    Just explaining my position, not trying to open a discussion for this or your moderation.
    Last edited by Fabinas; 2023-02-03 at 08:04 PM. Reason: Better English
    /spit@Blizzard

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