Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[Triceron]

Makes sense, though it also builds the idea that Amazon's regard for the show mught not really be related to either its quality or its succes as a piece of art.

I find it hard to grasp what Amazon execs actually want out of this. It's not exactly being recognized as a piece of art, either by the critics, the fandom, or the award academies that Amazon seems to want to appeal to. I personally find this series quite soulless, with the Elrond/Durin arc, (and maybe the Harfoots), being the exception.

[Kumorii]

I find it hard to grasp what Amazon execs actually want out of this. It's not exactly being recognized as a piece of art, either by the critics, the fandom, or the award academies that Amazon seems to want to appeal to. I personally find this series quite soulless, with the Elrond/Durin arc, (and maybe the Harfoots), being the exception.

well Bezos wanted a Game of Thrones and his son(?) told him to not fuck it up with this IP.

We need to know what the son thinks about it!

[Triceron]

well Bezos wanted a Game of Thrones and his son(?) told him to not fuck it up with this IP.

We need to know what the son thinks about it!

They're the only ones who would be able to define it as a success, after all!

[Syegfryed]

I wanted to quote it - to say it again!

Guess what guys. The *exact engagement* media companies care about, the "engagement" Fencers is posting about - INTERNET hits. So yeah, every single 'angry tweet' anyone posts online, across social media, is COUNTING TOWARDS that ENGAGEMENT that the companies ACTUALLY care about.

If you really want an IP's "online engagement" effected in a way media companies care about - you really will have to stop hate posting. =D Every post shitting on an IP is still a +1 for online engagement.

You can however, keep watching, apparently.

Oh - But don't FINISH the series - if you want your hate to count to Netflix (at least) cancelling something.

People shitting on the show in the internet, sadly for then, didn't give enough engagement to be impactful, but yes, hate watching does.

A good thing of hatewatching, is that some people do, so they can warn others to not fall in this same trap

And seeing how viewes drop after the premiere, a lot of people didn't finish it.

As for how this applies to Rings of Power, it's purely subjective. Some people still hang on to this as a problem. I personally never had issue with it, but I would still recognize it being a contentious issue that exists.

It isn't rly subjective, its just so bad that even that they didn't manage to get right.

The idea that humans are mad about elves, and think just because one of then appear their kingdom, is enough to make then riot, thinking they would steal their jobs, is bogus and an allegory to the people that immigration would do that as well

You also have the very, very white pale works, using hoods like an infamous racist groups.

I find it hard to grasp what Amazon execs actually want out of this. It's not exactly being recognized as a piece of art, either by the critics, the fandom, or the award academies that Amazon seems to want to appeal to. I personally find this series quite soulless, with the Elrond/Durin arc, (and maybe the Harfoots), being the exception.

they said they needed a big hit, a Game of thrones-like fever, obviously they didn't succeed on it

[Triceron]

It isn't rly subjective, its just so bad that even that they didn't manage to get right.

The idea that humans are mad about elves, and think just because one of then appear their kingdom, is enough to make then riot, thinking they would steal their jobs, is bogus and an allegory to the people that immigration would do that as well

It's bad because it didn't even make sense for the story they wanted to tell. It doesn't immediately equate to being bad because it's a woke thing. The mere association of this as being woke is subjective.

[Dhrizzle]

And seeing how viewes drop after the premiere, a lot of people didn't finish it.

How did viewes drop off after the Premier?

The idea that humans are mad about elves, and think just because one of then appear their kingdom, is enough to make then riot, thinking they would steal their jobs, is bogus and an allegory to the people that immigration would do that as well

You also have the very, very white pale works, using hoods like an infamous racist groups.

Ah man that's pathetic. Numenoreans are resentful of the perceived superiority of immortal magical people and some people wear hoods - "It'S aN aLlEgOrY fOr PoLiTiCs"

[Syegfryed]

How did viewes drop off after the Premier?

Lets see how much Amazon talk about minutes watched on other episodes... oh wait they don't, they just talk about the premiere.

And with niselsen numbers, each week RoP decreased in the week, only got barely up again in the battle episode, you can search some pages back to find it.

Ah man that's pathetic. Numenoreans are resentful of the perceived superiority of immortal magical people and some people wear hoods - "It'S aN aLlEgOrY fOr PoLiTiCs"

Pathetic is what they did, and i didn't say it was an allegory for politics, i said it was an allegory, period, you take that with what you want, but you need to be blind to not see it.

Numenorians are a race of super-humans, they being receitful to elves because their immortality have fuck to do with 'their gonna steal our jerbs"

And the orcs, nothing to say, you just need to watch it

[bledgor]

immortal

This is the key word, not jobs, but immortality was what drove the Numenoreans. Making it jobs is literally because of US politics and fucking stupid.

Even within just the context of the show, the Elf/Galadriel just wanted to leave the island, while the HUMAN (aka Halbrand/Sauron) was the one taking/looking for a job.

[rogoth]

How did viewes drop off after the Premier?



Ah man that's pathetic. Numenoreans are resentful of the perceived superiority of immortal magical people and some people wear hoods - "It'S aN aLlEgOrY fOr PoLiTiCs"

all the ratings data showed that after the premiere millions of people quit watching the show, and in fact the double episode premier saw a 40% reduction in viewership from e1 to e2 alone, and as mentioned both by myself and others, there were plenty of reports showing that more people left the show after that first episode aired than have watched all 8 episodes in total, meaning the show lost more viewers than it kept hold of by the end, dunno about you but i find that to be pretty significant.

'THEY TOOK ER JERBS!' was an actual plot point of the show, actual allegory to the dumbass American xenophobia towards any immigration but particularly Latino/Muslim immigration that's been increasing massively in recent years, yet another example of the moronic showrunners/department head 'this show must represent what the modern world looks like today' bullshit, there's dozens of examples of pathetic and moronic allegory in this show, and you decided to try and ridicule one of the most prominent ones, not exactly a smart choice there friend.

[Dhrizzle]

Lets see how much Amazon talk about minutes watched on other episodes... oh wait they don't, they just talk about the premiere.

And with niselsen numbers, each week RoP decreased in the week, only got barely up again in the battle episode, you can search some pages back to find it.

I did search, best comparison was posted by @rhorle,

Episodes 1 and 2 were 1,235m minutes. Episode 8 was 1,137m minutes. The low point for the show was episode 6 at 966m minutes.

I just don't see how that fits your narrative.

Pathetic is what they did, and i didn't say it was an allegory for politics, i said it was an allegory, period, you take that with what you want, but you need to be blind to not see it.

Numenorians are a race of super-humans, they being receitful to elves because their immortality have fuck to do with 'their gonna steal our jerbs"

Ah sorry you didn't say it was an allegory about politics, you said it was about politics and an allegory. But Numenoreans being resentful of a race made superior through the will of the Creator isn't allegorical of anything even if it is expressed through anxiety over their greater craftsmanship. Closest historic parallel is probably the Luddites but I'm guessing no influencers could make a South Park meme about that.

And the orcs, nothing to say, you just need to watch it

Brilliant argument, well done.

This is the key word, not jobs, but immortality was what drove the Numenoreans. Making it jobs is literally because of US politics and fucking stupid.

It's bugger all to do with US politics.

Even within just the context of the show, the Elf/Galadriel just wanted to leave the island, while the HUMAN (aka Halbrand/Sauron) was the one taking/looking for a job.

Gosh, that would only make sense if there was some sort of pre-existing resentment about the Elves among the Numenoreans...

[Aydinx2]

As a LotR enjoyer I liked watching it. As a Tolkien enjoyer it lacked in certain areas.
I never went into this expecting to get the Sirmarillion in T.V. form so maybe that helped.

[bledgor]

It's bugger all to do with US politics.

Sure and the moon is made of cheese.

Gosh, that would only make sense if there was some sort of pre-existing resentment about the Elves among the Numenoreans...

ABOUT THEM BEING IMMORTAL, NOT TAKING THEIR FUCKING JOBS. You know what back to ignoring you, you seem to ignore reality anyways.

[Dhrizzle]

Sure and the moon is made of cheese.

No it isn't.

ABOUT THEM BEING IMMORTAL, NOT TAKING THEIR FUCKING JOBS. You know what back to ignoring you, you seem to ignore reality anyways.

They're illustrating a general anxiety about the superiority of Elves and their immortality plays into that. Try thinking beyond a South Park meme next time.

[Syegfryed]

I just don't see how that fits your narrative.

Do you know that 966 is lower than 1235 right? literally confirming "my narrative" that viewers drop after premiere.

Ah sorry you didn't say it was an allegory about politics, you said it was about politics and an allegory. But Numenoreans being resentful of a race made superior through the will of the Creator isn't allegorical of anything even if it is expressed through anxiety over their greater craftsmanship. Closest historic parallel is probably the Luddites but I'm guessing no influencers could make a South Park meme about that.

The actual lore isn't allegory

What they did in the show was.

You are literally ignoring that the show didn't focus on the numenorian being resentful about the elves immortality, they were mad because they were going to steal their jobs, again, allegory to immigration, cause its the exactly same argument people use.

Brilliant argument, well done.

Yeah, it doesn't need arguments, the show spoken volumes already.

that would only make sense if there was some sort of pre-existing resentment about the Elves among the Numenoreans...

Yeah, countless of elves already stole the numenorian jobs, it made perfectly sense for the guy to have resentment.

- - - Updated - - -

They're illustrating a general anxiety about the superiority of Elves and their immortality plays into that.

"We chose to demonstrate that the numenorians feel general axientity by the superiority of the elves and their immortality by ignoring totally that bit and making then afraid of loosing jobs"

What a joke, You only missed to say it was "shakespearean "

[MCMLXXXII]

Do you know that 966 is lower than 1235 right? literally confirming "my narrative" that viewers drop after premiere.

And 1137 is higher than 966. So it dropped a bit and risen again.

[rhorle]

Do you know that 966 is lower than 1235 right? literally confirming "my narrative" that viewers drop after premiere.

You said it dropped so a lot of people didn't finish it. With the finale being around a 95 difference from the premiere it indicates a lot of people did finish it. It is funny how the last few days you were claiming the show lost 8 billion minutes after the premier. Now you recognize the truth but are still trying to twist it to be a bad thing. Do you ever stop moving goal posts?

[Dhrizzle]

Do you know that 966 is lower than 1235 right? literally confirming "my narrative" that viewers drop after premiere.

It's hardly loads of people though, not like when you were pretending 80٪ of the minutes viewed came from the first two episodes alone. It's what, less than 25% to the lowest point with almost a complete recovery for the finale?

The actual lore isn't allegory

What they did in the show was.

There's no allegory.

You are literally ignoring that the show didn't focus on the numenorian being resentful about the elves immortality, they were mad because they were going to steal their jobs, again, allegory to immigration, cause its the exactly same argument people use.

They were resentful because Elves were unsleeping, unaging, untiring. Distrust had been allowed to fester for four generations since Elves were banned from Numenor and now a she-Elf has the ear of the Queen. The agitator might have used the threat of the Elves taking their trade (not their jobs but as there isn't a "they took our trade" meme I'm not surprised you missed that) to rile up the crowd but from watching the show it clearly isn't the only issue affecting Numenor with the Elves as Elendil explains later in the episode.

Yeah, it doesn't need arguments, the show spoken volumes already.

Oh yeah it totally does but you just can't explain it.

Yeah, countless of elves already stole the numenorian jobs, it made perfectly sense for the guy to have resentment.

Now if that was the case then you could say it bears some resemblence to modern politics but, as you sarcastically pointed out, Elven migration to Numenor wasn't a thing, and as i explained the concern wasn't about Elves coming to take over jobs anyway.

"We chose to demonstrate that the numenorians feel general axientity by the superiority of the elves and their immortality by ignoring totally that bit and making then afraid of loosing jobs"

Instead of inventing quotes that don't match what is being shown wouldn't it make more sense to watch the series and criticise what actually occurs on screen?

What a joke, You only missed to say it was "shakespearean "

What?

[Orange Joe]

I thought that HoD was a far better series than RoP.

But, for the industry, RoP is more successful than HoD.

As a viewer, i disagree. Because i measure success by other standards. Story, scenario, acting, production etc. But the industry just counts beans. I mean minutes viewed.

See here is the problem, none of those are true measures of success. They just measure what you personally like. All those things can and do vary wildly between successful shows.

[jackofwind]

I find it hard to grasp what Amazon execs actually want out of this. It's not exactly being recognized as a piece of art, either by the critics, the fandom, or the award academies that Amazon seems to want to appeal to. I personally find this series quite soulless, with the Elrond/Durin arc, (and maybe the Harfoots), being the exception.

The Harfoots are a weird story, where Hobbits are generally shown to be pretty stalwart and courageous when push comes to shove, with a lot of their internal strength coming from a strong sense of compassion, empathy, and community, sprinkled with a good dose of stubbornness (applied really only to other Hobbits, they're obviously mostly distrustful of other races).

The Harfoots on the other hand are a self-destructive community that sentences its own members to grim deaths in exile. It seems totally out of what I've known to be the character of Hobbit communities to see them be more than happy to destroy each others wagons and write off anyone with a moderate injury. "Fall behind and get left behind" really feels out of character for me when applied to Hobbits, even ones that haven't migrated yet west and settled. What we see in the Harfoot portrayal is a Hobbit community where every family looks out only for themselves, which I think undermines the biggest and most positive trait of the race in Tolkien's writings (their stalwart friendship and connection to each other, even in the face of terrible fate).

Makes you wonder when they're toasting to all their dead relatives that they left behind - how many of those Hobbits really didn't need to die? We saw that they were ready to essentially condemn and entire family to death because of one broken ankle, when together their community could easily have spread that load and continued onwards.

It just makes me shake my head. Maybe they're going to try and demonstrate how the community changes to be less selfish and more altruistic towards one another due to the example set by Nori, but I disagree that it shouldn't be an inherent trait of Hobbits in the first place.

[Triceron]

It was the “Superfans” video. They picked people who aren’t actually Tolkien fans to promote their product, presumably based on ethnicity and sex/sexual orientation.

But the superfans video isn't the actual show. I'm talking specifically about the examples of the show itself being woke, which it's more or less ambiguous, and ultimately subjective.

It's not really universally agreed that the show is woke just because it has diversity in it. I'd just as much argue that this kind of thing is happening across the board for plenty of movies without being considered 'woke'. Like even a movie like Dr. Strange has a black actor playing Mordo and a white woman playing as the traditionally asian Ancient One. I personally wouldn't consider that 'woke' even if someone else feels differently.

I don’t understand what they were thinking. The series is much less extreme, except for making a complete muddle of Galadriel.

That I can agree with. I don't understand their mentality when it comes to many decisions made for this series.