1. #8881
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    Sure, Amazon is gonna find a way to claim success because they can hide their losses easily inside their core delivery business, but it’s foolish to the point of ridiculousness to care how they spin it. The point of engagement is to monetize it. I don’t see how they monetize this.
    They don't sell ads on their service. Engagement in the way you keep using it isn't important as it is to a service that does sell ads. As that is what companies look for when purchasing a timeslot. Amazon doesn't need to hide any losses from the show. It broke internal records for Prime Video. It made top 15 streaming. It has award nominations. It has been stated to have more than paid off the investment.

    You are another that is having trouble accepting that the show could be a success. Why? Why are you so desperate to continually claim the show is a failure?
    Last edited by rhorle; 2023-02-08 at 11:36 PM.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  2. #8882
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    did you suffer an aneurism or something, because that's EXACTLY WHAT HE SAID in his post, did you not read past the first line?, are you having an issue with your eyesight?, genuinely curious because that's precisely what he said, he said multiple 'bad' things have been massively successful and some stuff that's considered high quality hasn't always got the success it deserves, what exactly are you trying to get at here by just repeating what he said in fewer words?
    ? Did you? maybe read the whole convo again? I'm agreeing with @Syegfryed 's first statment, hence the "thats all that needs to be said".....
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  3. #8883
    Pit Lord rogoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post
    ? Did you? maybe read the whole convo again? I'm agreeing with @Syegfryed 's first statment, hence the "thats all that needs to be said".....
    no i got that part fine, my query was why did you just repeat what he said but used less words to do so then proceed to call it a 'strawman' when you're both saying the exact same thing, i don't get it.

  4. #8884
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    no i got that part fine, my query was why did you just repeat what he said but used less words to do so then proceed to call it a 'strawman' when you're both saying the exact same thing, i don't get it.
    We are not saying the same thing. I have made no real critique about this show and by all means I can see it's a success. That is not what he thinks.

    I gonna be bold and say next to no one paid to watch this shit, and the ones who did was before knowing it was a dumpsterfire, most people who watched, where the ones who already had prime anyway

    Audience did not liked, it received lower scores in both rotten tomatoes and imdb, only critics paid by amazon rated high, obviously, and there was still the controversy of amazon erasing the critics and putting then on hold.

    Online engagement was only to shit on it, and even that was low, we did a comparison to hashtags on twitter and isntagram on rings of power and house of the dragon , RoP was on the lower end, and again, most where to mock with memes.

    This screams failure, regardless if they made to a lame top 15th in the 15h position.


    None of that had anything to do with what I said Hence it's a strawman he is arguing... not me.... I don't agree with everything he is saying, just the first statement.
    MMO-Champ the place where calling out trolls get you into more trouble than trolling.

  5. #8885
    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    no i got that part fine, my query was why did you just repeat what he said but used less words to do so then proceed to call it a 'strawman' when you're both saying the exact same thing, i don't get it.
    He said the rest was strawman, meaning he didn't think the rest of what was talked about was very relevant.

    That's how I understand their conversation, at least.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2023-02-08 at 11:50 PM.

  6. #8886
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    Agreed. It wasn’t that it was woke - it was just bad. Everything around Galadriel was a mess, especially Gil-Galad. The casting choices were mostly terrible. The plot was totally inconsistent with the lore. It sucked.

    - - - Updated - - -



    So your argument is that if the industry decides to use nonsensical stats, it doesn’t matter?

    Dr. Evil voice: Riiiiigggghhhht.

    At the end of the day what matters is earning money. The stats are a proxy for that. If they don’t work, people stop using them.

    And I would argue that using engagement for RoP, when a large portion of the feedback is negative and a lot of engagement was guaranteed the moment you sunk a billion into a valuable ip and gave it away for free, is pretty dumb.

    Sure, Amazon is gonna find a way to claim success because they can hide their losses easily inside their core delivery business, but it’s foolish to the point of ridiculousness to care how they spin it.

    The point of engagement is to monetize it. I don’t see how they monetize this.
    I make no argument. I state a fact.

    You're trying to argue facts.
    /spit@Blizzard

  7. #8887
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post
    None of that had anything to do with what I said Hence it's a strawman he is arguing... not me.... I don't agree with everything he is saying, just the first statement.
    That is not a strawman since im not arguing against you?? lol

    Im saying what makes a show successful, and saying rings of power didn't check any of those boxes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    "Niesel chart in the months showed they had a huge drop..." what does that even mean?
    Dropping from 2/3rd place to 7th in the top 10? then disappearing entirely later?
    Yes I get it, some influencer showed you a South Park meme and that's where your knowledge of this begins and ends.
    What south park meme are you even talking about?

    its literally in the show, rings of power, the dude complaining about elves telling their jobs, and this is something xenophobe people, more common in US think about immigration

    you don't need to watch a cartoon to see the allegory, just to use your brain

    They wouldn't hire Elves. In the series nobody talked about jobs, that's something someone told you and you're just following blindly. What the Numenoreans were being pushed towards fearing was competition for their trade from beings that are objectively superior.

    Oh, so you didn't watch the show, that explain a lot. The dude literally say that in the rally. go watch it and then come back, i heard it is a success.

    WTF dude, is this what the SJW boogie man is up to these days? I don't know if you're spending too much time on YouTube or Twitch or TikTok but you gotta lay off the influencers for a while.

    So this is how you are going to escape ? cause you didn't adressed shit from what i said.

    make a quick search and you will see many people claiming orcs are an indication of racism towards POC, hell, they evens aid that about the blue people from avatar.

  8. #8888
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Oh, so you didn't watch the show, that explain a lot. The dude literally say that in the rally. go watch it and then come back, i heard it is a success.
    The line is "Elf workers taking your trades". It could really go either way based both arguments. That line is specifically referencing Halbrand who tried to steal his way into being able to practice a trade on Numenor. It can either be about taking their literal job offering a craft that non-elves can't compete with. Which would put them out of business but not be the same as "taking their jobs".

    If the view on the show fits a xenophobic viewpoint then it fits perfectly with what Tolkien had of the Numenoreans. As they were split between elf-friend and elf-foe. That is what we see with the scene as the speaker ends with "I say, the Queen's either blind or an Elf lover. Just like her father". It really was just a simple display of a political faction on the island raising its pitch forks. Since we know Sauron was involved it makes the scene more acceptable because he was clearly exerting influence or "his plan".

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Dropping from 2/3rd place to 7th in the top 10? then disappearing entirely later?
    Most shows start to drop and disappear after they stop release new content.
    Last edited by rhorle; 2023-02-09 at 04:32 AM.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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  9. #8889
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    The line is "Elf workers taking your trades". It could really go either way based both arguments. That line is specifically referencing Halbrand.
    no it wasn't, Halbrand is not the one who does not age and don't get tired.

    Numenorians, who are stronger and live for far longer, would not fear a southlander.
    Last edited by Syegfryed; 2023-02-09 at 07:27 AM.

  10. #8890
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    no it wasn't, Halbrand is not the one who does not age and don't get tired.

    Numenorians who are stronger and life for far longer would not feat a southlander.
    Not to mention that the show established the craftsman guild as being long-established and exclusive industry in Numenor. No one can be a craftsman without joining the Guild. What Halbrand did was steal a badge with no credentials to back it up, meaning he wouldn't have been able to get a legitimate job that way anyways. A stolen badge does not equate to 'taking their jobs'.

    And blaming the Elves on top of that just makes even less sense. The only reason it's brought up in the protest is so that Pharazon could have something to say about Elves in the show.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2023-02-09 at 07:03 AM.

  11. #8891
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Dropping from 2/3rd place to 7th in the top 10? then disappearing entirely later?
    What charts are you talking about?

    What south park meme are you even talking about?
    The "they took our jerbs" meme you keep parroting.

    its literally in the show, rings of power, the dude complaining about elves telling their jobs, and this is something xenophobe people, more common in US think about immigration
    Except he doesn't say jobs, he says Elven craftsmen will take their trade because they are unsleeping, unaging and untiring. It's not about them moving to Numenor and taking employment.

    you don't need to watch a cartoon to see the allegory, just to use your brain
    It would help if you actually watched the show instead of parroting what influencers tell you.

    Oh, so you didn't watch the show, that explain a lot. The dude literally say that in the rally. go watch it and then come back, i heard it is a success.
    I literally rewatched that scene moments before posting how wrong you are.

    So this is how you are going to escape ? cause you didn't adressed shit from what i said.
    That's 'cos you're rambling nonsense.

    make a quick search and you will see many people claiming orcs are an indication of racism towards POC, hell, they evens aid that about the blue people from avatar.
    Many people are saying something on the internet!? Well that's definitely important and needs paying attention to.

  12. #8892
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    What charts are you talking about?
    Nielsen months, check past pages and you see the prints and the links for then, the week the last episode aired it drop entirely from the chart.

    The "they took our jerbs" meme you keep parroting.
    Never ehard before, never watched that carton outside one movie, im not a USA guy, sorry

    Except he doesn't say jobs, he says Elven craftsmen will take their trade because they are unsleeping, unaging and untiring. It's not about them moving to Numenor and taking employment.

    ohohohoho so he says "the elves craftsmen will take their trade" not "the elves gonna take our jobs"

    wink wink

    Come on, not even you can be that oblivious.

    Many people are saying something on the internet!? Well that's definitely important and needs paying attention to.
    it gets a lot of attention actually, thats why many rpgs out there are making sure to remove racist and xenophobe content they had, mainly wotc with their campaigns

    Again, just search online, a lot of people attack and said tolkien was racist because his orcs.

  13. #8893
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    no it wasn't, Halbrand is not the one who does not age and don't get tired.
    He is seen as an "elf friend" who tried to steal a badge that allows you to practice a trade. The guy, Tamar, who is giving the speech is the guy he stole from and beat up. That line and all the anger is rooted in the actions of Halbrand even if it had no extra manipulation by Sauron.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  14. #8894
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Never ehard before, never watched that carton outside one movie, im not a USA guy, sorry
    The fact you're parroting a meme with no clue where it came from really doesn't surprise me.


    ohohohoho so he says "the elves craftsmen will take their trade" not "the elves gonna take our jobs"

    wink wink

    Come on, not even you can be that oblivious.
    Hmm, let's see if you understand it this way, if I said "Americans are worried about losing trade to China" do I mean
    A) Americans are worried about the Chinese taking their trade.
    Or
    B) Americans are worried about Chinese migrants moving to America and taking their jobs.

    it gets a lot of attention actually, thats why many rpgs out there are making sure to remove racist and xenophobe content they had, mainly wotc with their campaigns

    Again, just search online, a lot of people attack and said tolkien was racist because his orcs.
    Well there is a good argument that at the least some of Tolkien's descriptions of Orcs would be considered racist but in terms of fantasy monsters they're certainly not referencing anything. There's no reason for you to get upset about them being shown in a more sympathetic light through the Adar storyline.

  15. #8895
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    The fact you're parroting a meme with no clue where it came from really doesn't surprise me.
    There is no need to "parrot a meme" its ltierally in the show

    you fixation in this bit, trying to ridicule when im not even aware of that, as some sort of defence of your argument is laughable


    Hmm, let's see if you understand it this way, if I said "Americans are worried about losing trade to China" do I mean
    A) Americans are worried about the Chinese taking their trade.
    Or
    B) Americans are worried about Chinese migrants moving to America and taking their jobs.
    Is this supposed to be your clever comeback? cause both are valid.

    Well there is a good argument that at the least some of Tolkien's descriptions of Orcs would be considered racist but in terms of fantasy monsters they're certainly not referencing anything. There's no reason for you to get upset about them being shown in a more sympathetic light through the Adar storyline.
    hum what??? lmao, thats a weird strawman coming out of nowhere.

    and outside of Adar, which he still is an elf, no orc is show in a "more sympathetic light"

  16. #8896
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    and outside of Adar, which he still is an elf, no orc is show in a "more sympathetic light"
    Galadrial calls him 'Moriondor' which is sons of the dark. Elves that were tortured and twisted into becoming Morgoth's evil minions. While adar prefers the term Uruk which means orc. It seems clear that the show is establishing that he is no longer an elf. It is like calling the Ring Wraiths human even though they were corrupted into something beyond that. Or calling the Oathbreakers men even though they became undead.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  17. #8897
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    "I merely stated that us liking or disliking the metrics because arbitrary, statistics (that can be truthful and deceiving at the same time), nonsensical etc, has no bearing at the industry, because that's what they have decided to use."

    How is this a fact? Lol...
    The fact is that THIS IS THE METRIC USED by the industry.

    You not accepting it, calling it nonsensical etc, has no bearing or influence to the fact above.
    /spit@Blizzard

  18. #8898
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    If the view on the show fits a xenophobic viewpoint then it fits perfectly with what Tolkien had of the Numenoreans. As they were split between elf-friend and elf-foe. That is what we see with the scene as the speaker ends with "I say, the Queen's either blind or an Elf lover. Just like her father". It really was just a simple display of a political faction on the island raising its pitch forks. Since we know Sauron was involved it makes the scene more acceptable because he was clearly exerting influence or "his plan".
    For season 2 they should give Pharazôn a blonde wig and some orange spray tan. That's clearly what Tolkien had in mind.
    The absolute state of Warcraft lore in 2021:
    Kyrians: We need to keep chucking people into the Maw because it's our job.
    Also Kyrians: Why is the Maw growing stronger despite all our efforts?

  19. #8899
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    That's clearly what Tolkien had in mind.
    So the divide of the faithful and the King's Men was not about their views of elves? Their was no dislike or prejudice from the King's Men faction towards the elves? There is no reason to try to interject American politics into this discussion.
    Last edited by rhorle; 2023-02-09 at 04:19 PM.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  20. #8900
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    There is no need to "parrot a meme" its ltierally in the show

    you fixation in this bit, trying to ridicule when im not even aware of that, as some sort of defence of your argument is laughable
    It's not though, nowhere in Rings of Power does anyone mention "YER JERBS," that's a South Park meme you've picked up from somewhere and substituted for the actual show.

    Is this supposed to be your clever comeback? cause both are valid.
    No they're not. Losing trade to workers in another place is different to losing your job to immigrants even if the result is the same (unemployment.) Your failure to grasp this is...not actually that surprising.

    hum what??? lmao, thats a weird strawman coming out of nowhere.

    and outside of Adar, which he still is an elf, no orc is show in a "more sympathetic light"
    Adar is an Orc, one of the first Orcs, and his entire arc is about showing Orcs in a more sympathetic light as people who deserve their own homeland and a chance to live their own way. Generally that's what people whinge about the "shades of grey" aspect, not whatever it is you've picked up.

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