Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[Theangryone]

Are we still arguing about black elves? Because after 25 some pages it’s almost as long as Fellowship

[uuuhname]

once again, failing to see the point, lemme spell it out for you:

IT'S NOT A PROBLEM OR A BIG DEAL

what is a problem is shoehorning it in where it doesn't belong based on the lore of the works created, and then calling people racist when they call you out on such an obvious ticking of boxes to make sure the quotas are being met, and as has been described in detail in this thread countless times now, this is just ONE facet of this fucked up character, they have managed to hit a trifecta of dumb shit with this one character alone.

no no no, the fact you and others insist on making this about quota's and "agendas" is what gives you away. if you really didn't care, you wouldn't make this point, but you do anyway, because you are actually upset.

[Sluvs]

That's radically far off? You thought due to television and movies there were nearly twice as many black people as there were 3 times as many asians and vastly fewer hispanics. Not sure how you can claim casting opportunities don't exist for black americans when you think that their population in the US is twice as large as it is now if you want to talk about hispanic roles we can have a definite discussion there.

Ok, I don't know what you are on about because I did not answer based on movie and TVs. My perception is not only shaped by that and it's foolish for you to think that. Not only that, but it was a pure guess out of nowhere.

I can claim that they have less opportunities because directors, actors, producers and industry insiders have said so. The academy literally admitted it. Hollywood literary admitted it. And when they are cast, they are cast for minor roles. Lately things have been getting better, but in 2018, the year Black Panther release, take a look on how many movies had a African american protagonist.

I mean, did you forget the entire oscar debacle?

I will also not discuss this further as I said previously.

[Triceron]

It wasn't about tokenization it was about a complete lack of respect for the source material which was displayed from the word go via casting.

It wasn't that either.

It didn't fail at all due to 'lack of respect for the source', considering most of its problems still affected people who never even read the original books. The writing itself was clunky and confused, with very bad pacing.

I can even point at this same criticism affecting Book of Boba Fett, which DOES respect the source material, but failed because of the same type of poor writing and bad pacing. Of course, it got redemption from some Mandalorian focused episodes, but overall it was still a fairly poor series as a whole.

[bledgor]

Also I am the only one really pissed they have seemingly cut Celeborn when this is supposed to be the second age? Also made worse since him and Galadriel have Celebrian during this time too.

[Sluvs]

Also I am the only one really pissed they have seemingly cut Celeborn when this is supposed to be the second age? Also made worse since him and Galadriel have Celebrian during this time too.

I am all sorts of worried with Galadriel. She apparently is the protagonist of the series and they are turning her into a Xena.

[Triceron]

Also I am the only one really pissed they have seemingly cut Celeborn when this is supposed to be the second age? Also made worse since him and Galadriel have Celebrian during this time too.

I haven't read into this much.

Is his role literally being cut from the story?

[rogoth]

no no no, the fact you and others insist on making this about quota's and "agendas" is what gives you away. if you really didn't care, you wouldn't make this point, but you do anyway, because you are actually upset.

Amazon has been shown to have a LITERAL diversity quota, that means that any show or movie made under their banner needs to have a specific portion of coloured or minority hires before a project can be greenlit, this is not my opinion, this is not someone making stuff up to make a point, this is an immutable fact of this company, it's also a fact that the oscars awards has a diversity quota before a film can be even nominated for 'best picture' award, i haven't watched or cared about the oscars since the mid 2000's and i'm aware of this.

it's also a fact that the executive producer of this project said when she was interviewed for their vanity fair fluff piece she wants this show to 'reflect what the world (modern day planet earth) is like', that's her agenda that she is pushing onto this fantasy world and the stories and characters created by the original author that had none of those things, again, this is an immutable fact.

i'm upset at the fact they have created a new character out of thin air that didn't need to exist, not only that, they have removed all of things that categorise the character as a dwarf, and they have made her the only black character of her race within the show (so far), meaning she is the exact definition of a 'token' hire.

i'm also upset at the myriad other issues with this show that have nothing to do with the fucked up moronic characters they have made up that never existed, i'm upset at the utter shitshow they have provided regarding the timeline of events being shrunk down and events that were centuries apart in the original works are now gonna be shown to happen either simultaneously, or shortly after one another.

i'm upset at the fact that several characters are being left out of the story that should be shown as they are major parts of the overarching plot of the time period, and yet we're forced to accept that they won't be in the series 'because reasons'.

is it sinking in yet that the problems i personally have with this show are not so easily tied up in a neat little bow you like to call 'racism', if that's your first and last line of defense, just follow the lead of Amazon and associated media and call critics racists then i'm truly and deeply felling great pity for you, and i hope you can someday lift yourself above that kind of backwards thinking.

[bledgor]

I haven't read into this much.

Is his role literally being cut from the story?

He was the warrior/leader type, helped fight/lead an army to fight Sauron when it was revealed that Annatar was actually Sauron, making the rings of power. Not to mention he and Galadrial are almost always traveling together, also again supposed to have their child who is married to Elrond during this age and has their children, including Arwen.

[Unlimited Power]

As someone that watches barely any content that I don't already have a great interest in, I was pretty stoked about the idea of a LotR show.

It's certainly an IP with a lot of potential.

But just from seeing the recent teasers and trailer, it really doesn't seem like Amazon intends to treat the source material with much respect.

It also seems like the show is tonally quite different from the LotR movies. That was the case for the Hobbit movies, and I found it to be a major factor in detracting from my enjoyment of those movies.

I'll reserve judgement until user reviews and maybe give the first episode a try if reviews aren't entirely negative, but I'll keep my expectations for this very low.

[Triceron]

He was the warrior/leader type, helped fight/lead an army to fight Sauron when it was revealed that Annatar was actually Sauron, making the rings of power. Not to mention he and Galadrial are almost always traveling together.

Oh, I know who he was in the books and lore.

I meant I haven't read into the Rings of Power series' direction with plot and roles. Is Celeborn intentionally cut from the 2nd Age story or something?

[Khaza-R]

Also I am the only one really pissed they have seemingly cut Celeborn when this is supposed to be the second age? Also made worse since him and Galadriel have Celebrian during this time too.

I just really hope they don't do something really stupid like a human / elf romance with her. Because that was the vibes I kind of got from the VF article.

[bledgor]

Oh, I know who he was in the books and lore.

I meant I haven't read into the Rings of Power series' direction with plot and roles. Is Celeborn intentionally cut from the 2nd Age story or something?

Like I said, they don't even have anyone listed as a cast for the role, and he was a part of the fight in the 2nd age over the rings of power/creation of them vs Annatar/Sauron. Also as said below it looked like they are trying to make a connection between Galadriel and a human (guy on the raft) that is softly hinted at during the one of the articles, which would be so fucked.

[uuuhname]

Amazon has been shown to have a LITERAL diversity quota

so what? so what? you know what I do in the face of corporate wokery? I ignore it. I pay as much attention to it as it deserves, which is none, because for me, it's cynical and does not in any meaningful way address issues of inequality in our society.

as for the show seeing as we know very little about the actual plot, writing and characters I'm not in a position to cast judgement on it one way or the other. it could end up being shitty, or great, that still doesn't mean it devalues what ALREADY EXISTS.

like, I'm sorry I don't hold whatever IP you like as a sacred relic that can never EVER be changed or made to "fit with the times". because once again, the original content is still there, it's still it's own thing. and seeing as this show wants to be it's own thing I'm inclined to be perfectly ok with whatever it does.

IDK what else to say about the moaning over dark skin people having the audacity to appear in your high fantasy. like this happens way too often and gets the same amount of petty vitriol thrown at it to not been seen as ummmm yeah, racist.

[eschatological]

For the umpteenth time, this subforum is not for airing your grievances about your persecuted paranoia of "woke" agendas. I'd say take it to GenOT, but y'all know they don't put up with it there either. Cut the crap out. Just because this subforum only has one mod who works a lot doesn't mean you can break fairly clearly established rules for funsies.

[Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang]

The buzzcuts a bit weird yea… the lack of female beard is very defensible ino though… it’s one of those things that works on the page, but not on screen. The character would lose all charisma.

While in my recollection, the incipit of the 1st Hobbit movie already displayed beardless female dwarves, so I'm not that sensible to that whole story (I never took Gandalf's words too seriously).

If anything Gandalf's words could have been an exaggeration, with something like the dark facial hair women of some meridional people naturally have. Doing something based on that could have been interesting. Plus a cultural practice of "bearded" women does/did exist in the traditional facial tattoos worm by the Maori and Ainu.

Now that could have been an innovative interpretation : have the female dwarves be akin to a hairy women by modern beauty standards, and their cultural practice be to magnify such hairiness trough make-up and/or tattoos.

[Specialka]

no no no, the fact you and others insist on making this about quota's and "agendas" is what gives you away. if you really didn't care, you wouldn't make this point, but you do anyway, because you are actually upset.

I guess people are upset woke people are using lotr to further their stupid agenda. Apart in the US, representation of colored people is a zero sum game, yes.

Infracted.

[Varodoc]

Like I said, they don't even have anyone listed as a cast for the role, and he was a part of the fight in the 2nd age over the rings of power/creation of them vs Annatar/Sauron. Also as said below it looked like they are trying to make a connection between Galadriel and a human (guy on the raft) that is softly hinted at during the one of the articles, which would be so fucked.

Everything they are doing with Galadriel is stupid. They think that she's more hot-headed and brash due to being younger, but they are completely wrong, because Galadriel was one of the very few who were suspicious of Sauron from the start. While the other elves realized they were deceived only after Sauron created the One Ring, Galadriel was already very suspicious of "Annatar" and didn't trust him at all. So she's not "more naive" just because she's younger, they are butchering her character.

Then they put Galadriel in plate armour like a warrior and they think that makes her strong, when that's antithesis of her character. Galadriel was always portrayed as an otherworldly and magical being, not a warrior lol. She was the only not wielding any sort of weapon at Dol Guldur, but she was also the one who overpowered and banished Sauron himself.

[Dhrizzle]

Everything they are doing with Galadriel is stupid. They think that she's more hot-headed and brash due to being younger, but they are completely wrong, because Galadriel was one of the very few who were suspicious of Sauron from the start. While the other elves realized they were deceived only after Sauron created the One Ring, Galadriel was already very suspicious of "Annatar" and didn't trust him at all. So she's not "more naive" just because she's younger, they are butchering her character.

Then they put Galadriel in plate armour like a warrior and they think that makes her strong, when that's antithesis of her character. Galadriel was always portrayed as an otherworldly and magical being, not a warrior lol. She was the only not wielding any sort of weapon at Dol Guldur, but she was also the one who overpowered and banished Sauron himself.

Like the other Noldor Galadriel went east because she wished to rule lands without being subject to the Valar and according to the Silmarillion she fought against Fëanor at the first kin-slaying. Tolkien's work is very inconsistent and he often changed characters attributes when writing about them but at some point he decided Galadriel was something of an Amazon figure.

[DarkAmbient]

Jesus Christ, just don't watch the show if seeing darker skin triggers you so much.

People who think the integrity of an established fantasy world ought to be respected: "Maybe the people being depicted ought to look like they're supposed to? You know, because doing otherwise doesn't really make any sense and kind of breaks the lore?"

People like you: "Stop being triggered by brown people!!!"



Infracted.