Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[Fabinas]

If the executives think that the data they collected means the show was a success, they are morons. The strategy may have been successful, that doesn't mean the show was. Again, they took a valuable IP that was coming off a 20 year content drought and spent hundreds of millions of dollars producing a show that they gave away for free. Of course the first season will get a lot of interest. But you can't make much money giving a show away for free (I'm aware that they think it's advertising for their website, that they sell more books, etc., so they did get some revenue).

But in season 2 those built in advantages will fade, and that's where the real story will be told.

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Ah right - there's no logic at all in this argument. Never mind, no point arguing with something this silly.

Goalpost moving. Essentially what Xath is doing.

Also "i disagree with the industry, even i'm not part of it, i knowz bettah. U moronz"

Yah, no point in arguing with someone so silly.

[Xath]

Goalpost moving. Essentially what Xath is doing.

Also "i disagree with the industry, even i'm not part of it, i knowz bettah. U moronz"

Yah, no point in arguing with someone so silly.

I am part of the damn industry lol. I work in marketing. The reason that Amazon is the only one that can somewhat consistently break the netflix choke hold is because people are already paying for prime for shipping. Because despite having very few critically acclaimed shows people already have access to prime video because they have prime for shipping.

[rhorle]

I am part of the damn industry lol. I work in marketing. The reason that Amazon is the only one that can somewhat consistently break the netflix choke hold is because people are already paying for prime for shipping. Because despite having very few critically acclaimed shows people already have access to prime video because they have prime for shipping.

Very Few? They have produced critically acclaimed shows for a while now. Notice how those shows didn't draw a big crowd despite having access to a large subscriber base. Just like Netflix doesn't draw 200 million for each show they produce. Your knowledge of marketing is failing you here. Because you are talking about the potential maximum Amazon has access to but not their actual draw for original content.

[Fabinas]

No the only thing that matters is the top 15 list. 15 is awesome, and 16 is a disaster.

No one actually cares about money. The industry runs on engagement based crypto.

Another strawman. Noone said such thing. Except you, because you can only see things in black and white, when some stranger in the internet proves you wrong.

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I am part of the damn industry lol. I work in marketing. The reason that Amazon is the only one that can somewhat consistently break the netflix choke hold is because people are already paying for prime for shipping. Because despite having very few critically acclaimed shows people already have access to prime video because they have prime for shipping.

It doesn't matter. They hit the number of minutes viewed. Others don't. That means Amazon can use that chip for industry leverage. And they find a way to make money though that. Or even lose money, because tax purposes, because pride as a streaming provider, because, because...

We don't know. And we shouldn't care. RoP has hit a metric that can be translated to success of the show.

Was it cost effective? Was it a quality show? I believe non of these is true. But i know better than to argue with numbers. Dismissing this particular metric, just to hit that trainwreck, dismisses EVERY entry in it.



If you really believe this argument, then you open the door to the criticism of "The Boys" success.

[Syegfryed]

I am part of the damn industry lol. I work in marketing. The reason that Amazon is the only one that can somewhat consistently break the netflix choke hold is because people are already paying for prime for shipping. Because despite having very few critically acclaimed shows people already have access to prime video because they have prime for shipping.

nonsense, just like the increase of prime subs in the Christmas/holydays period, weeks after the show landed, is obviously because the show success /s

[crusadernero]

Another strawman. Noone said such thing. Except you, because you can only see things in black and white, when some stranger in the internet proves you wrong.

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It doesn't matter. They hit the number of minutes viewed. Others don't. That means Amazon can use that chip for industry leverage. And they find a way to make money though that. Or even lose money, because tax purposes, because pride as a streaming provider, because, because...

We don't know. And we shouldn't care. RoP has hit a metric that can be translated to success of the show.

Was it cost effective? Was it a quality show? I believe non of these is true. But i know better than to argue with numbers. Dismissing this particular metric, just to hit that trainwreck, dismisses EVERY entry in it.



If you really believe this argument, then you open the door to the criticism of "The Boys" success.

They hit the numbers for S1 cause its LOTR. The show could be way worse (is that possible?) and the numbers would still be high. S2 though? S3? Doubt it if the keep on like they have.

[rhorle]

Oh dear god… how the hell do you make money through “industry leverage”? These posts are getting more and more bizarre…

By getting a pitch before other networks? Amazon has answered this question themselves. They wanted to show the industry that they can handle a large production that is on a different level than "basic" productions.

Also why wouldn't a certain level of viewership be a success? If your glass overflows it is full, right? Or do you yell at the waiter to keep pouring because you think it hasn't yet filled the glass?

[crusadernero]

That’s exactly how I think about it. Return should be judged relative to investment. In this case the investment was high because the show was expected to draw a lot of interest, so it’s not particularly impressive in that context.

tbh, they could get away with much more profit if they lowered the cost pr episode. THis show was more or less ass. It looked pretty, but it was ass.

[rhorle]

That’s exactly how I think about it. Return should be judged relative to investment. In this case the investment was high because the show was expected to draw a lot of interest, so it’s not particularly impressive in that context.

If we continue your logic nothing produced with the Tolkien IP would have been impressive. Even if you thought the show was good it would still be a failure using this same logic. Do you not see that flaw? I know you don't care about your own zeal but do you at least recognize it?

[Fabinas]

They hit the numbers for S1 cause its LOTR. The show could be way worse (is that possible?) and the numbers would still be high. S2 though? S3? Doubt it if the keep on like they have.

We will have to wait and see. Like 1 or 2 years more.

I do doubt S2 will be successful. On the other hand i will watch it, because i wanna know what i'm talking about.

[Adamas102]

We will have to wait and see. Like 1 or 2 years more.

I do doubt S2 will be successful. On the other hand i will watch it, because i wanna know what i'm talking about.

Or, rather than watch it just for the sake of having something to argue about, you could just... not watch it and find something better to do with your time.

[Fabinas]

Or, rather than watch it just for the sake of having something to argue about, you could just... not watch it and find something better to do with your time.

No, i do want to watch it. I don't expect it to be good, judging by S1 result, but who knows? they may (or may not) fix stuff and surprise me.

I wanna know, cause interested in LotR. If it's bad, i'll be here to discuss. Same if it's not. Anyway it goes, this will not be a waste of my time. Because, i decide that and not any number of internet strangers for me, ok?

[Adamas102]

No, i do want to watch it. I don't expect it to be good, judging by S1 result, but who knows? they may (or may not) fix stuff and surprise me.

I wanna know, cause interested in LotR. If it's bad, i'll be here to discuss. Same if it's not. Anyway it goes, this will not be a waste of my time. Because, i decide that and not any number of internet strangers for me, ok?

Hey, no problem if you WANT to watch it to see if you like it or not. Unfortunately, there seems to be a good number of people who will "hate watch" things they've already decided in advance that they won't like JUST for the opportunity to complain about it on the internet.

[Fabinas]

Hey, no problem if you WANT to watch it. Unfortunately, there seems to be a good number of people who will "hate watch" things they've already decided in advance that they won't like JUST for the opportunity to complain about it on the internet.

Don't belong to those.

[kenn9530]

That’s exactly how I think about it. Return should be judged relative to investment. In this case the investment was high because the show was expected to draw a lot of interest, so it’s not particularly impressive in that context.

The show brought more than enough interest, do you not think 100 million plus and growing is not sufficiant, many shows never even see that amount of viewership. All the data shows is most ppl who watch it enjoy it enough to keep watching and thats all that matters, ppl will continue to watch it no matter what you think of the show.

[Adamas102]

I went into the show expecting it to be bad after the “superfans” debacle paired with the chainsaw massacre of Wheel of Time. I was always going to watch it anyway. I’m going to watch season 2 as well - I get prime video basically free and I’m a huge LOTR fan (unlike the “Superfans”, one of whom admitted several episodes in that she was watch house of the dragon instead).

The only thing I know about this “super fans” thing that everyone is obsessed with is that it was a marketing thing which means I don’t care about it one bit. People find the weirdest things to get flustered about…

As for watching the show when you expected it to be bad JUST because you’re a fan is also kinda weird. If you’re a fan of the books or the movies, that doesn’t mean you should feel compelled to watch something completely different just because it’s related (if you’ve already pretty much decided you weren’t going to enjoy it).

[Xath]

nonsense, just like the increase of prime subs in the Christmas/holydays period, weeks after the show landed, is obviously because the show success /s

Nah definitely not it was all because of lotr and they instantly canceled sub post christmas because there was no season 2 to watch.

[rogoth]

The only thing I know about this “super fans” thing that everyone is obsessed with is that it was a marketing thing which means I don’t care about it one bit. People find the weirdest things to get flustered about…

As for watching the show when you expected it to be bad JUST because you’re a fan is also kinda weird. If you’re a fan of the books or the movies, that doesn’t mean you should feel compelled to watch something completely different just because it’s related (if you’ve already pretty much decided you weren’t going to enjoy it).

the fact you aren't aware of why it was so controversial is actually pretty on brand for you considering you have no fucking clue why this project is a raging dumpster fire the likes of which has never been seen before and likely will never be seen again after the cataclysmic backlash it has received, to enlighten you:

the 'superfans' videos were made by Amazon inviting people (paid for their travel, paid for their accommodation, paid them with gift sets worth hundreds of £/$,) to watch a pre screening of the first episode, all of the non English speaking 'fans' were left to discuss whatever they wanted, however the English language version was filled with:

a lesbian white woman with 1 functional eye who had/has a lady boner for all things harry potter and is clueless about LOTR.

a straight black woman who only cares about 'female empowerment' and other such woke communities, she is the one named above who openly stated she wasn't gonna be watching this shitshow because she was too engrossed in the House of the Dragon, and that, quote: 'rings of power needs to be something special if it's gonna beat house of the dragon (insert nervous laughing here)'.

a gay black man who became a meme because of his coached comments regarding the character of Sauron (as halbrand), quote: 'if Sauron is hot i feel like people will think, "i can fix him"', this comment was loved so much by those directing off screen that they had him repeat this quote a second time using a different hair stroke pattern with his hand and he wasn't able to replicate what he said so when he did a second take which was stitched into the main video, he said something different but with the same message behind it.

lastly we had a straight guy of Indian descent from the UK who was 'hosting' all he did was list off a bunch of pre-approved questions based on their off screen direction to the group all the while waving his hands around like he is fighting off some invisible force.

not only was the entire production poorly staged, in that the gay black guy kept looking towards the camera/slightly off camera to get reassurance what he was saying was ok from whoever was directing the scene, but the entire time all they talked about was 'diversity' and 'inclusion' not once did they even provide ANY feedback about the little preview they were shown, never once talked about its contents, never once mentioned anything about it that would indicate they had watched anything that wasn't already freely available to watch at the time already to the public, not to mention the heavily staged and badly directed stop/start nature of the groups walking into the venue.

not only that but every single one of them broke the law here in the UK, they received not only on site hospitality for the entire event, they also received a gift set alongside other things acting as pseudo payment for their positive review of the event, which is not allowed under UK law, any gifts received must be declared when offering any form of endorsement of a product and where necessary any conflicts of interest should be disclosed also, none of this was done so everything that was said
in all of these videos put out by Amazon should be disregarded and ignored as false information as a result of a conflict of interests.



this is the UK video, the only one that was 'unlisted' on youtube and the only one where the people involved were obviously coached and directed to say what they said, the non English versions with the different groups of people were not coached or directed, as shown by the fact that the rest of them all talked about the teaser trailer in some fashion, while sprinkling in that they were wined and dined as part of their trip.

this is one of the many pieces of media that caused Amazon to censor their videos in English, not only removing comments from legitimate users, but also trying to remove dislikes from legitimate users, it was one of the early dominoes that fell in the cascade of backlash against this shitshow of a fanfiction project and was just the beginning of how anything released surrounding this show was universally hated, being ratio'd into oblivion on every platform Amazon tried to post anything to, Youtube, Twitter, Facebook, IRL marketing (billboards etc), everything without exception was downvoted so far by so many people that Amazon in their desperation paid some of the actors of the PJ trilogy to wear hastily printed T-shirts and pose for photo's posted on Twitter with captions that were there purely to try and deflect, because none of what Amazon was trying to claim in these posts was true, and when they finally lost hold of their own narrative the mask came off and they went full censorship mode on EVERYTHING, any form of negative criticism was banned, whether that be in text form, through sharing meme's, or anything inbetween, people were being banned from communities which prior to the show being announced officially had millions of people in them to being left with barely a few hundred thousand members on the biggest platforms, and many of the shill media defending this mess actually going bankrupt once the Amazon money stopped coming in.


but please, tell me again how wonderful this show is, tell me how it's a perfect representation of the lore of middle earth, tell me more about how a bastardised fanfiction pile of garbage is 'stunning', 'brave', 'empowering', when all possible points of data state that it was so universally hated by any and all that interacted with it, that it has more 'hate watchers' than actual people watching it out of 'joy'.

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The "Superfans" thing really just affected my expectations by massively lowering them - in a way that was justified, it turns out, the show was horrendous.

And as for watching it anyway, what can I say - there are a lot of people who've been tuning into Jets games for years even when they know they are bad. It's my thing.

Adamas here is one of those people who was heavily 'white knighting' this show earlier in the thread while the main marketing campaign was going, he was defending things that me and many others said were hot garbage using the defense of:

'you haven't seen it so how can you possibly pass judgement on it'

and ignoring anybody who stated:

'because of past experience we know exactly what will happen because everything they are doing is catalogued in the woke players handbook'

all because that sort of thing didn't fit with his and the general narrative at the time (still doesn't to this day but it's better to be rabid to the end and stick to your failed point than admit defeat in Adamas' eyes).

all in all, this terrible fanfiction of cataclysmic proportions still has some defenders somehow despite being proven beyond doubt that it's a catastrophe in both critical and public opinion, and even the paid for reviews did a quick 180 when their payments stopped conflicting their interests, it takes a special kind of deluded idiot to ignore that fact but here we are, with a few here and there in this thread still gripping onto that thread for dear life.

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The "Superfans" thing really just affected my expectations by massively lowering them - in a way that was justified, it turns out, the show was horrendous.

And as for watching it anyway, what can I say - there are a lot of people who've been tuning into Jets games for years even when they know they are bad. It's my thing.

Adamas here is one of those people who was heavily 'white knighting' this show earlier in the thread while the main marketing campaign was going, he was defending things that me and many others said were hot garbage using the defense of:

'you haven't seen it so how can you possibly pass judgement on it'

and ignoring anybody who stated:

'because of past experience we know exactly what will happen because everything they are doing is catalogued in the woke players handbook'

all because that sort of thing didn't fit with his and the general narrative at the time (still doesn't to this day but it's better to be rabid to the end and stick to your failed point than admit defeat in Adamas' eyes).

all in all, this terrible fanfiction of cataclysmic proportions still has some defenders somehow despite being proven beyond doubt that it's a catastrophe in both critical and public opinion, and even the paid for reviews did a quick 180 when their payments stopped conflicting their interests, it takes a special kind of deluded idiot to ignore that fact but here we are, with a few here and there in this thread still gripping onto that thread for dear life.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

not only that but every single one of them broke the law here in the UK, they received not only on site hospitality for the entire event, they also received a gift set alongside other things acting as pseudo payment for their positive review of the event, which is not allowed under UK law, any gifts received must be declared when offering any form of endorsement of a product and where necessary any conflicts of interest should be disclosed also, none of this was done so everything that was said
in all of these videos put out by Amazon should be disregarded and ignored as false information as a result of a conflict of interests.

I haven't watched the superfans or looked into it at all as I don't care about promo crud but Where are you getting them breaking UK law from by getting gifts or that they got gifts at all? I can't seem to find any thing outside of just a few reddit comments with no substance about them being paid actors.

[rogoth]

I haven't watched the superfans or looked into it at all as I don't care about promo crud but Where are you getting them breaking UK law from by getting gifts or that they got gifts at all? I can't seem to find any thing outside of just a few reddit comments with no substance about them being paid actors.

lets get some basic things covered that can all be agreed upon ok?

what were they there for?: they were present at this event to provide a review of the pre release trailer footage they were shown.

what happened during the event?: they were flown out to a location on the Spanish island of Majorca to a venue that was hired out by Amazon for this 2 day event where the guests stayed and were 'wined and dined' while there, not only were they plied with alcohol and a gift set, they were also told they would be invited to a second event closer to the release of the show if they were favourable during this event.

as part of their endorsement, they were paid by Amazon (in the form of hospitality and the copious gifts they were given when there) and in return gave a rave review, under UK law this sort of thing is illegal and is a clear conflict of interest, as such it should have been disclosed very clearly beforehand what was given to these people, and how their view was tarnished, it is also illegal to coerce a positive outcome from someone who is reviewing something who has taken payment for a service if they are an independent entity (which all of these 'superfans' are).

the only reason people found out about the gift sets and the onsite gifts given on top of those gift sets is because someone who was there shared online a short video of them opening up their small gift bag, and in one of the non English videos they stated about how they were given as much alcohol as they wanted and how great it was, if it wasn't for these 'accidental slip ups' nobody would have known about these gifts, which makes things even worse, Amazon thought they could get away with it (and clearly did because nobody has the financial means to challenge it) by providing non monetary reparations for the positive reviews given by these 'superfans'.

these 'superfans' broke the law by not disclosing they were payed to give their review and provided false and misleading information based on the understanding that they would receive further preferential treatment and further gifts if they provided a positive review, if they had disclosed these things it wouldn't be an issue, but because they purposefully hid them, and were later shamed into admitting they were given these things that's where the line is drawn, they knowingly and wilfully accepted payment to provide false and misleading information which could lead to financial gain for the person/persons that the review was designed to help, and that's where the breach occurs, but because the event wasn't held on the mainland UK, and because nobody has the financial means to contest such a thing in court against Amazon (who for all intents and purposes have unlimited funds) nobody has actually filed anything against them.

these are all a year old at this point so if you genuinely wish to learn more about this entire debacle, go look it up, i'm sure you can easily find some of the videos on youtube that are still up, there might be some you can't find because they were forced down but the info is there, as for me it's nearly 4:30 A.M where i live and i'm going to bed, have fun, and i can't wait to see what excuses people will make for breaking the law regarding commercial gain and how Amazon did nothing wrong while making this so called 'masterpiece' of a shitshow.