1. #9041
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    I went into the show expecting it to be bad after the “superfans” debacle paired with the chainsaw massacre of Wheel of Time. I was always going to watch it anyway. I’m going to watch season 2 as well - I get prime video basically free and I’m a huge LOTR fan (unlike the “Superfans”, one of whom admitted several episodes in that she was watch house of the dragon instead).
    The only thing I know about this “super fans” thing that everyone is obsessed with is that it was a marketing thing which means I don’t care about it one bit. People find the weirdest things to get flustered about…

    As for watching the show when you expected it to be bad JUST because you’re a fan is also kinda weird. If you’re a fan of the books or the movies, that doesn’t mean you should feel compelled to watch something completely different just because it’s related (if you’ve already pretty much decided you weren’t going to enjoy it).

  2. #9042
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    nonsense, just like the increase of prime subs in the Christmas/holydays period, weeks after the show landed, is obviously because the show success /s
    Nah definitely not it was all because of lotr and they instantly canceled sub post christmas because there was no season 2 to watch.

  3. #9043
    Herald of the Titans rogoth's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    in the land of killer unicrons
    Posts
    2,516
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    The only thing I know about this “super fans” thing that everyone is obsessed with is that it was a marketing thing which means I don’t care about it one bit. People find the weirdest things to get flustered about…

    As for watching the show when you expected it to be bad JUST because you’re a fan is also kinda weird. If you’re a fan of the books or the movies, that doesn’t mean you should feel compelled to watch something completely different just because it’s related (if you’ve already pretty much decided you weren’t going to enjoy it).
    the fact you aren't aware of why it was so controversial is actually pretty on brand for you considering you have no fucking clue why this project is a raging dumpster fire the likes of which has never been seen before and likely will never be seen again after the cataclysmic backlash it has received, to enlighten you:

    the 'superfans' videos were made by Amazon inviting people (paid for their travel, paid for their accommodation, paid them with gift sets worth hundreds of £/$,) to watch a pre screening of the first episode, all of the non English speaking 'fans' were left to discuss whatever they wanted, however the English language version was filled with:

    a lesbian white woman with 1 functional eye who had/has a lady boner for all things harry potter and is clueless about LOTR.

    a straight black woman who only cares about 'female empowerment' and other such woke communities, she is the one named above who openly stated she wasn't gonna be watching this shitshow because she was too engrossed in the House of the Dragon, and that, quote: 'rings of power needs to be something special if it's gonna beat house of the dragon (insert nervous laughing here)'.

    a gay black man who became a meme because of his coached comments regarding the character of Sauron (as halbrand), quote: 'if Sauron is hot i feel like people will think, "i can fix him"', this comment was loved so much by those directing off screen that they had him repeat this quote a second time using a different hair stroke pattern with his hand and he wasn't able to replicate what he said so when he did a second take which was stitched into the main video, he said something different but with the same message behind it.

    lastly we had a straight guy of Indian descent from the UK who was 'hosting' all he did was list off a bunch of pre-approved questions based on their off screen direction to the group all the while waving his hands around like he is fighting off some invisible force.

    not only was the entire production poorly staged, in that the gay black guy kept looking towards the camera/slightly off camera to get reassurance what he was saying was ok from whoever was directing the scene, but the entire time all they talked about was 'diversity' and 'inclusion' not once did they even provide ANY feedback about the little preview they were shown, never once talked about its contents, never once mentioned anything about it that would indicate they had watched anything that wasn't already freely available to watch at the time already to the public, not to mention the heavily staged and badly directed stop/start nature of the groups walking into the venue.

    not only that but every single one of them broke the law here in the UK, they received not only on site hospitality for the entire event, they also received a gift set alongside other things acting as pseudo payment for their positive review of the event, which is not allowed under UK law, any gifts received must be declared when offering any form of endorsement of a product and where necessary any conflicts of interest should be disclosed also, none of this was done so everything that was said
    in all of these videos put out by Amazon should be disregarded and ignored as false information as a result of a conflict of interests.



    this is the UK video, the only one that was 'unlisted' on youtube and the only one where the people involved were obviously coached and directed to say what they said, the non English versions with the different groups of people were not coached or directed, as shown by the fact that the rest of them all talked about the teaser trailer in some fashion, while sprinkling in that they were wined and dined as part of their trip.

    this is one of the many pieces of media that caused Amazon to censor their videos in English, not only removing comments from legitimate users, but also trying to remove dislikes from legitimate users, it was one of the early dominoes that fell in the cascade of backlash against this shitshow of a fanfiction project and was just the beginning of how anything released surrounding this show was universally hated, being ratio'd into oblivion on every platform Amazon tried to post anything to, Youtube, Twitter, Facebook, IRL marketing (billboards etc), everything without exception was downvoted so far by so many people that Amazon in their desperation paid some of the actors of the PJ trilogy to wear hastily printed T-shirts and pose for photo's posted on Twitter with captions that were there purely to try and deflect, because none of what Amazon was trying to claim in these posts was true, and when they finally lost hold of their own narrative the mask came off and they went full censorship mode on EVERYTHING, any form of negative criticism was banned, whether that be in text form, through sharing meme's, or anything inbetween, people were being banned from communities which prior to the show being announced officially had millions of people in them to being left with barely a few hundred thousand members on the biggest platforms, and many of the shill media defending this mess actually going bankrupt once the Amazon money stopped coming in.


    but please, tell me again how wonderful this show is, tell me how it's a perfect representation of the lore of middle earth, tell me more about how a bastardised fanfiction pile of garbage is 'stunning', 'brave', 'empowering', when all possible points of data state that it was so universally hated by any and all that interacted with it, that it has more 'hate watchers' than actual people watching it out of 'joy'.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    The "Superfans" thing really just affected my expectations by massively lowering them - in a way that was justified, it turns out, the show was horrendous.

    And as for watching it anyway, what can I say - there are a lot of people who've been tuning into Jets games for years even when they know they are bad. It's my thing.
    Adamas here is one of those people who was heavily 'white knighting' this show earlier in the thread while the main marketing campaign was going, he was defending things that me and many others said were hot garbage using the defense of:

    'you haven't seen it so how can you possibly pass judgement on it'

    and ignoring anybody who stated:

    'because of past experience we know exactly what will happen because everything they are doing is catalogued in the woke players handbook'

    all because that sort of thing didn't fit with his and the general narrative at the time (still doesn't to this day but it's better to be rabid to the end and stick to your failed point than admit defeat in Adamas' eyes).

    all in all, this terrible fanfiction of cataclysmic proportions still has some defenders somehow despite being proven beyond doubt that it's a catastrophe in both critical and public opinion, and even the paid for reviews did a quick 180 when their payments stopped conflicting their interests, it takes a special kind of deluded idiot to ignore that fact but here we are, with a few here and there in this thread still gripping onto that thread for dear life.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    The "Superfans" thing really just affected my expectations by massively lowering them - in a way that was justified, it turns out, the show was horrendous.

    And as for watching it anyway, what can I say - there are a lot of people who've been tuning into Jets games for years even when they know they are bad. It's my thing.
    Adamas here is one of those people who was heavily 'white knighting' this show earlier in the thread while the main marketing campaign was going, he was defending things that me and many others said were hot garbage using the defense of:

    'you haven't seen it so how can you possibly pass judgement on it'

    and ignoring anybody who stated:

    'because of past experience we know exactly what will happen because everything they are doing is catalogued in the woke players handbook'

    all because that sort of thing didn't fit with his and the general narrative at the time (still doesn't to this day but it's better to be rabid to the end and stick to your failed point than admit defeat in Adamas' eyes).

    all in all, this terrible fanfiction of cataclysmic proportions still has some defenders somehow despite being proven beyond doubt that it's a catastrophe in both critical and public opinion, and even the paid for reviews did a quick 180 when their payments stopped conflicting their interests, it takes a special kind of deluded idiot to ignore that fact but here we are, with a few here and there in this thread still gripping onto that thread for dear life.

  4. #9044
    Merely a Setback Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Land of moose and goose.
    Posts
    25,242
    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    not only that but every single one of them broke the law here in the UK, they received not only on site hospitality for the entire event, they also received a gift set alongside other things acting as pseudo payment for their positive review of the event, which is not allowed under UK law, any gifts received must be declared when offering any form of endorsement of a product and where necessary any conflicts of interest should be disclosed also, none of this was done so everything that was said
    in all of these videos put out by Amazon should be disregarded and ignored as false information as a result of a conflict of interests.
    I haven't watched the superfans or looked into it at all as I don't care about promo crud but Where are you getting them breaking UK law from by getting gifts or that they got gifts at all? I can't seem to find any thing outside of just a few reddit comments with no substance about them being paid actors.
    Last edited by Lorgar Aurelian; 2023-02-14 at 04:06 AM.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  5. #9045
    Herald of the Titans rogoth's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    in the land of killer unicrons
    Posts
    2,516
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    I haven't watched the superfans or looked into it at all as I don't care about promo crud but Where are you getting them breaking UK law from by getting gifts or that they got gifts at all? I can't seem to find any thing outside of just a few reddit comments with no substance about them being paid actors.
    lets get some basic things covered that can all be agreed upon ok?

    what were they there for?: they were present at this event to provide a review of the pre release trailer footage they were shown.

    what happened during the event?: they were flown out to a location on the Spanish island of Majorca to a venue that was hired out by Amazon for this 2 day event where the guests stayed and were 'wined and dined' while there, not only were they plied with alcohol and a gift set, they were also told they would be invited to a second event closer to the release of the show if they were favourable during this event.

    as part of their endorsement, they were paid by Amazon (in the form of hospitality and the copious gifts they were given when there) and in return gave a rave review, under UK law this sort of thing is illegal and is a clear conflict of interest, as such it should have been disclosed very clearly beforehand what was given to these people, and how their view was tarnished, it is also illegal to coerce a positive outcome from someone who is reviewing something who has taken payment for a service if they are an independent entity (which all of these 'superfans' are).

    the only reason people found out about the gift sets and the onsite gifts given on top of those gift sets is because someone who was there shared online a short video of them opening up their small gift bag, and in one of the non English videos they stated about how they were given as much alcohol as they wanted and how great it was, if it wasn't for these 'accidental slip ups' nobody would have known about these gifts, which makes things even worse, Amazon thought they could get away with it (and clearly did because nobody has the financial means to challenge it) by providing non monetary reparations for the positive reviews given by these 'superfans'.

    these 'superfans' broke the law by not disclosing they were payed to give their review and provided false and misleading information based on the understanding that they would receive further preferential treatment and further gifts if they provided a positive review, if they had disclosed these things it wouldn't be an issue, but because they purposefully hid them, and were later shamed into admitting they were given these things that's where the line is drawn, they knowingly and wilfully accepted payment to provide false and misleading information which could lead to financial gain for the person/persons that the review was designed to help, and that's where the breach occurs, but because the event wasn't held on the mainland UK, and because nobody has the financial means to contest such a thing in court against Amazon (who for all intents and purposes have unlimited funds) nobody has actually filed anything against them.

    these are all a year old at this point so if you genuinely wish to learn more about this entire debacle, go look it up, i'm sure you can easily find some of the videos on youtube that are still up, there might be some you can't find because they were forced down but the info is there, as for me it's nearly 4:30 A.M where i live and i'm going to bed, have fun, and i can't wait to see what excuses people will make for breaking the law regarding commercial gain and how Amazon did nothing wrong while making this so called 'masterpiece' of a shitshow.

  6. #9046
    The Lightbringer
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Banned to the Bone.
    Posts
    3,771
    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    the fact you aren't aware of why it was so controversial is actually pretty on brand for you considering you have no fucking clue why this project is a raging dumpster fire the likes of which has never been seen before and likely will never be seen again after the cataclysmic backlash it has received, to enlighten you:

    the 'superfans' videos were made by Amazon inviting people (paid for their travel, paid for their accommodation, paid them with gift sets worth hundreds of £/$,) to watch a pre screening of the first episode, all of the non English speaking 'fans' were left to discuss whatever they wanted, however the English language version was filled with:

    a lesbian white woman with 1 functional eye who had/has a lady boner for all things harry potter and is clueless about LOTR.

    a straight black woman who only cares about 'female empowerment' and other such woke communities, she is the one named above who openly stated she wasn't gonna be watching this shitshow because she was too engrossed in the House of the Dragon, and that, quote: 'rings of power needs to be something special if it's gonna beat house of the dragon (insert nervous laughing here)'.

    a gay black man who became a meme because of his coached comments regarding the character of Sauron (as halbrand), quote: 'if Sauron is hot i feel like people will think, "i can fix him"', this comment was loved so much by those directing off screen that they had him repeat this quote a second time using a different hair stroke pattern with his hand and he wasn't able to replicate what he said so when he did a second take which was stitched into the main video, he said something different but with the same message behind it.

    lastly we had a straight guy of Indian descent from the UK who was 'hosting' all he did was list off a bunch of pre-approved questions based on their off screen direction to the group all the while waving his hands around like he is fighting off some invisible force.

    not only was the entire production poorly staged, in that the gay black guy kept looking towards the camera/slightly off camera to get reassurance what he was saying was ok from whoever was directing the scene, but the entire time all they talked about was 'diversity' and 'inclusion' not once did they even provide ANY feedback about the little preview they were shown, never once talked about its contents, never once mentioned anything about it that would indicate they had watched anything that wasn't already freely available to watch at the time already to the public, not to mention the heavily staged and badly directed stop/start nature of the groups walking into the venue.

    not only that but every single one of them broke the law here in the UK, they received not only on site hospitality for the entire event, they also received a gift set alongside other things acting as pseudo payment for their positive review of the event, which is not allowed under UK law, any gifts received must be declared when offering any form of endorsement of a product and where necessary any conflicts of interest should be disclosed also, none of this was done so everything that was said
    in all of these videos put out by Amazon should be disregarded and ignored as false information as a result of a conflict of interests.



    this is the UK video, the only one that was 'unlisted' on youtube and the only one where the people involved were obviously coached and directed to say what they said, the non English versions with the different groups of people were not coached or directed, as shown by the fact that the rest of them all talked about the teaser trailer in some fashion, while sprinkling in that they were wined and dined as part of their trip.

    this is one of the many pieces of media that caused Amazon to censor their videos in English, not only removing comments from legitimate users, but also trying to remove dislikes from legitimate users, it was one of the early dominoes that fell in the cascade of backlash against this shitshow of a fanfiction project and was just the beginning of how anything released surrounding this show was universally hated, being ratio'd into oblivion on every platform Amazon tried to post anything to, Youtube, Twitter, Facebook, IRL marketing (billboards etc), everything without exception was downvoted so far by so many people that Amazon in their desperation paid some of the actors of the PJ trilogy to wear hastily printed T-shirts and pose for photo's posted on Twitter with captions that were there purely to try and deflect, because none of what Amazon was trying to claim in these posts was true, and when they finally lost hold of their own narrative the mask came off and they went full censorship mode on EVERYTHING, any form of negative criticism was banned, whether that be in text form, through sharing meme's, or anything inbetween, people were being banned from communities which prior to the show being announced officially had millions of people in them to being left with barely a few hundred thousand members on the biggest platforms, and many of the shill media defending this mess actually going bankrupt once the Amazon money stopped coming in.


    but please, tell me again how wonderful this show is, tell me how it's a perfect representation of the lore of middle earth, tell me more about how a bastardised fanfiction pile of garbage is 'stunning', 'brave', 'empowering', when all possible points of data state that it was so universally hated by any and all that interacted with it, that it has more 'hate watchers' than actual people watching it out of 'joy'.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Adamas here is one of those people who was heavily 'white knighting' this show earlier in the thread while the main marketing campaign was going, he was defending things that me and many others said were hot garbage using the defense of:

    'you haven't seen it so how can you possibly pass judgement on it'

    and ignoring anybody who stated:

    'because of past experience we know exactly what will happen because everything they are doing is catalogued in the woke players handbook'

    all because that sort of thing didn't fit with his and the general narrative at the time (still doesn't to this day but it's better to be rabid to the end and stick to your failed point than admit defeat in Adamas' eyes).

    all in all, this terrible fanfiction of cataclysmic proportions still has some defenders somehow despite being proven beyond doubt that it's a catastrophe in both critical and public opinion, and even the paid for reviews did a quick 180 when their payments stopped conflicting their interests, it takes a special kind of deluded idiot to ignore that fact but here we are, with a few here and there in this thread still gripping onto that thread for dear life.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Adamas here is one of those people who was heavily 'white knighting' this show earlier in the thread while the main marketing campaign was going, he was defending things that me and many others said were hot garbage using the defense of:

    'you haven't seen it so how can you possibly pass judgement on it'

    and ignoring anybody who stated:

    'because of past experience we know exactly what will happen because everything they are doing is catalogued in the woke players handbook'

    all because that sort of thing didn't fit with his and the general narrative at the time (still doesn't to this day but it's better to be rabid to the end and stick to your failed point than admit defeat in Adamas' eyes).

    all in all, this terrible fanfiction of cataclysmic proportions still has some defenders somehow despite being proven beyond doubt that it's a catastrophe in both critical and public opinion, and even the paid for reviews did a quick 180 when their payments stopped conflicting their interests, it takes a special kind of deluded idiot to ignore that fact but here we are, with a few here and there in this thread still gripping onto that thread for dear life.
    I won't go and comment on ANYTHING you said.

    But i watched that video and it's so...

    i mean, i get it, some marketing people actually thought that this video will be awesome to make, will tick all the boxes, will appeal to people with various sensitivities etc

    It definitely wasn't made with LotR fans in mind. It's focused on another generation with their mindset and things that find important etc.

    But i doubt these particular people are LotR fans and that the things that interest them in their life have ANYTHING to do with LotR.
    /spit@Blizzard

  7. #9047
    The Patient
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    265
    Quote Originally Posted by Fabinas View Post
    I won't go and comment on ANYTHING you said.

    But i watched that video and it's so...

    i mean, i get it, some marketing people actually thought that this video will be awesome to make, will tick all the boxes, will appeal to people with various sensitivities etc

    It definitely wasn't made with LotR fans in mind. It's focused on another generation with their mindset and things that find important etc.

    But i doubt these particular people are LotR fans and that the things that interest them in their life have ANYTHING to do with LotR.
    I do remember one of the writers during an interview stated he didn't think Tolkien was a very good writer and that they were improving upon it.

    I did watch the show and roasted it with friends. We did agree a lot of it looked pretty and cool but the story was just meh.

  8. #9048
    Herald of the Titans rogoth's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    in the land of killer unicrons
    Posts
    2,516
    Quote Originally Posted by Fabinas View Post
    I won't go and comment on ANYTHING you said.

    But i watched that video and it's so...

    i mean, i get it, some marketing people actually thought that this video will be awesome to make, will tick all the boxes, will appeal to people with various sensitivities etc

    It definitely wasn't made with LotR fans in mind. It's focused on another generation with their mindset and things that find important etc.

    But i doubt these particular people are LotR fans and that the things that interest them in their life have ANYTHING to do with LotR.
    this is the ONLY VIDEO of its kind, they released about 8 of these videos in different nationality groups, italian, dutch, german etc, ONLY the UK video had these topics, ONLY the UK one was coached and directed on what to say, ONLY the UK one failed to talk about ANY of the footage they were shown, it's like Amazon was using the UK video as a vehicle for an 'American' version and thought it was a good idea to highjack the UK video and push their 'diversity' and 'inclusion' narrative, which at the time these videos came out was their ENTIRE MARKETING STRATEGY, in none of the other language videos do they mention anything about 'inclusion' or 'diversity', for the most part they are left to their own devices to talk about whatever they want surrounding this event, the only 'weird' one you could argue is the french version as it's just 1 guy on a stage talking to a camera, with the majority of his video spent showing trailer footage and him having makeup applied, and ironically he is the most 'fanlike' of all the people represented in the entire event, he actually knows some of the lore and is an actual journalist in france, it's almost like the people behind this project are incompetent twats who don't do any research because the one person who they probably should have been coaching and directing (an actual journalist) was left to talk on his own in front of the camera for 5 minutes, whereas the UK version has a load of instagram nobodies who have never posted anything about LOTR, and even now to this day have not produced a single piece of content between them around LOTR, the lesbian with 1 working eye is pushing out harry potter based content (it's all she does), the straight black woman put a vid on instagram (the contents of which i stated above in summary), the gay black guy has yet to post anything regarding a fantasy story period, and the other guy who was there to act as a host has done nothing short of try to start a music career which has failed to materialise.

    frankly if you watch all the other 'superfan' videos and get an accurate translation of what is said in each one, it's almost as if Amazon were too afraid to cross the 'woke' line in these countries and these cultures, and were relying on the UK video to do all that heavy lifting for them because they knew that the UK version wouldn't be as difficult to sell a woke narrative with compared with the rest.

  9. #9049
    Merely a Setback Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Land of moose and goose.
    Posts
    25,242
    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    lets get some basic things covered that can all be agreed upon ok?

    what were they there for?: they were present at this event to provide a review of the pre release trailer footage they were shown.

    what happened during the event?: they were flown out to a location on the Spanish island of Majorca to a venue that was hired out by Amazon for this 2 day event where the guests stayed and were 'wined and dined' while there, not only were they plied with alcohol and a gift set, they were also told they would be invited to a second event closer to the release of the show if they were favourable during this event.

    as part of their endorsement, they were paid by Amazon (in the form of hospitality and the copious gifts they were given when there) and in return gave a rave review, under UK law this sort of thing is illegal and is a clear conflict of interest, as such it should have been disclosed very clearly beforehand what was given to these people, and how their view was tarnished, it is also illegal to coerce a positive outcome from someone who is reviewing something who has taken payment for a service if they are an independent entity (which all of these 'superfans' are).

    the only reason people found out about the gift sets and the onsite gifts given on top of those gift sets is because someone who was there shared online a short video of them opening up their small gift bag, and in one of the non English videos they stated about how they were given as much alcohol as they wanted and how great it was, if it wasn't for these 'accidental slip ups' nobody would have known about these gifts, which makes things even worse, Amazon thought they could get away with it (and clearly did because nobody has the financial means to challenge it) by providing non monetary reparations for the positive reviews given by these 'superfans'.

    these 'superfans' broke the law by not disclosing they were payed to give their review and provided false and misleading information based on the understanding that they would receive further preferential treatment and further gifts if they provided a positive review, if they had disclosed these things it wouldn't be an issue, but because they purposefully hid them, and were later shamed into admitting they were given these things that's where the line is drawn, they knowingly and wilfully accepted payment to provide false and misleading information which could lead to financial gain for the person/persons that the review was designed to help, and that's where the breach occurs, but because the event wasn't held on the mainland UK, and because nobody has the financial means to contest such a thing in court against Amazon (who for all intents and purposes have unlimited funds) nobody has actually filed anything against them.

    these are all a year old at this point so if you genuinely wish to learn more about this entire debacle, go look it up, i'm sure you can easily find some of the videos on youtube that are still up, there might be some you can't find because they were forced down but the info is there, as for me it's nearly 4:30 A.M where i live and i'm going to bed, have fun, and i can't wait to see what excuses people will make for breaking the law regarding commercial gain and how Amazon did nothing wrong while making this so called 'masterpiece' of a shitshow.
    So assuming all of this actually happened, Your saying that it's proven in some video's that may or may not exist and nobody reported on it other wise or if they did it was supposedly forcefully taken down by amazon, You also won't link any of said video's and any one interested just need to wade through the Likely hundreds of videos around superfans to find it.
    Last edited by Lorgar Aurelian; 2023-02-14 at 05:10 AM.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  10. #9050
    Quote Originally Posted by Azsune View Post
    I do remember one of the writers during an interview stated he didn't think Tolkien was a very good writer and that they were improving upon it.
    Citation very much needed.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    <snip>
    Obviously this is something you feel very strongly about, but all it looks like to me is a big corporation making a cringey advert and I don't see how anyone could care so much about it.

  11. #9051
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    Obviously this is something you feel very strongly about, but all it looks like to me is a big corporation making a cringey advert and I don't see how anyone could care so much about it.
    The poster in question is probably one of the most delusional posters in this thread and has a habit of simply making shit up and then getting irrationally angry when his lies (and abysmal reading comprehension) are pointed out.

    The fact that he wrote such a long post with absolutely no substance is pretty on brand with him. You’re absolutely right, this “superfans” thing was just a marketing gimmick and has absolutely nothing to do with the show itself. Definitely not surprised that this man-child is still so worked up about it though given how much time he spent trying to push his piss poor interpretation of Amazon’s DE&I policy last year.

    Let’s pretend this “superfans” thing didn’t happen. The show would obviously be completely unchanged. There really is no compelling argument for why it would be important to someone like myself who never watched it to begin with, and yet you still have people like Rogoth absolutely rabid about it…

    The only “issue” would be for people who watched the marketing and as a result decided to not watch the show despite the fact that they might have enjoyed it. That’s obviously not the case with any of the people in this thread since they all watched the show despite whatever negative impression they got from the marketing.
    Last edited by Adamas102; 2023-02-14 at 02:28 PM.

  12. #9052
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    The only “issue” would be for people who watched the marketing and as a result decided to not watch the show despite the fact that they might have enjoyed it. That’s obviously not the case with any of the people in this thread since they all watched the show despite whatever negative impression they got from the marketing.
    You obviously don't understand how a fandom works if you think one bad promotional is gonna stop long-standing Tolkien fans who want to see a good TV series based in Middle Earth. It's not, and that's part of the problem with the Superfans promo. Who was it made for? Obviously the casual audience, since none of the Superfans were actual Tolkien fans at all and had practically zero knowledge about Middle Earth and its mythology outside 'having watched the movies'. But casual audiences wouldn't care about watching a 'Superfans' promo either, they'd just be the casual audience. So what we have are the fans who are anticipating Rings of Power and a Middle Earth-based TV series watching this abomination. That's what happened.

    A bad promo isn't going to stop fans passion for material they hold dear to them. It's just gonna be a sore spot that will be pointed out. It's too early to look back on and laugh at, like the 70's Star Wars Holiday specials. It's still a fresh wound, like the Star Wars sequel trilogy.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2023-02-14 at 06:56 PM.

  13. #9053
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    There’s a lot here that’s similar to the sequel trilogy. They obviously got a lot of interest because STAR WARS but they were not good and greatly dampened fan enthusiasm for more. LOTR is in the early stages of this where reception is not great but the failure isn’t as obvious as it will be in a few years because they got a lot of interest.

    Star Wars has mostly moved into ignoring the sequels and constantly just fleshing out the events during the first 6 movies. That feels like what might hopefully happen to RoP - it becomes a black mark that everyone eventually ignores.
    It's hard to conceptualize any sort of 'future failure' though, since failure and success are relative in retrospect, not really applicable when it hasn't happened yet.

    I could just as much say that Game of Thrones S8 screwed the pooch, and squandered any good faith the fans have in future content. But we can clearly see that it hasn't phased the reception of House of Dragons, at all. Or how the Last Jedi squandered the good faith fans had in the movies, but even the mediocre Rise of Skywalker continued to make bank.

    I personally think fans are quite resilient to bullshit, and are more willing to consume content (when there is a lack of it) over abstaining from potential 'failure'. And there's always the case that the fans don't really know what they want, and will even skip over stuff that they should be watching. Like, Andor is the way superior show over Book of Boba Fett or Obi-Wan, but its numbers are no where close to that because fans generally have little interest in a show following 'that one dude from Rogue One' as compared to shows about a Bounty Hunter or Jedi. So in a way, even good shows like Andor can be considered 'failures' when it comes to lacking that mass appeal, while shows like Obi-wan and Book of Boba Fett could be seen as being more successful, even though the shows themselves were mediocre at best.

    The casual fanbase mostly doesn't care about the same things that the hardcore fans do. And Rings of Power is successful due to the overwhelming casual audience, the people who generally don't know (or care) about Tolkien/Middle Earth mythology in the books. Whether that continues to be the case for a S2, only time will tell.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2023-02-14 at 09:20 PM.

  14. #9054
    The Unstoppable Force rhorle's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    20,076
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    Star Wars has mostly moved into ignoring the sequels and constantly just fleshing out the events during the first 6 movies. That feels like what might hopefully happen to RoP - it becomes a black mark that everyone eventually ignores.
    That is because Star Wars is "done" with the Skywalker Saga and actively developing shows and movies for the High Republic and Old Republic. They did the same thing when actively developing for the Clone Wars and prequels. They ignored the OT.

    Also how can fan enthusiasm be dampened when even someone as yourself will hate watch and hate watch a season 2? All of these "fans" like to talk how X ruined Y and blah blah blah but in the end they still consume the content anyways. Just like now you are saying "in a decade the failure will be clear!!!". You are just continually moving the goal posts to somehow justify the hate even just for the sake of it.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  15. #9055
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    You obviously don't understand how a fandom works if you think one bad promotional is gonna stop long-standing Tolkien fans who want to see a good TV series based in Middle Earth. It's not, and that's part of the problem with the Superfans promo. Who was it made for? Obviously the casual audience, since none of the Superfans were actual Tolkien fans at all and had practically zero knowledge about Middle Earth and its mythology outside 'having watched the movies'. But casual audiences wouldn't care about watching a 'Superfans' promo either, they'd just be the casual audience. So what we have are the fans who are anticipating Rings of Power and a Middle Earth-based TV series watching this abomination. That's what happened.

    A bad promo isn't going to stop fans passion for material they hold dear to them. It's just gonna be a sore spot that will be pointed out. It's too early to look back on and laugh at, like the 70's Star Wars Holiday specials. It's still a fresh wound, like the Star Wars sequel trilogy.
    Well, first off you can go ahead and drop your fandom gatekeeping in suggesting what "real fans" are meant to do or know. Seriously, fuck off with that shit. Neither you nor anyone else in this thread dictates requirements for being a Tolkien fan.

    There was a lot of marketing material meant to hype up the series (as is the case with all big shows/movies). I certainly watched a couple of trailers leading up to the release, but that was about it. I guarantee you that all the posters that latched onto this particular promo did NOT watch every single cast appearance on late night shows, or read every single article that was published, or every single production promo. No, instead they rabidly locked onto the one marketing promo that best encapsulated their preemptive dislike of the show. I'm sure we can go back and see that most of these posters were already decrying the show from the moment the cast was revealed.

    The show certainly wasn't perfect, but it's laughable that this fucking promo, which may indeed be the cringiest promo every made (I don't know, still don't care to watch it), is still referenced incessantly as something pivotal to the series itself or of any importance whatsoever.

  16. #9056
    Titan
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    America's Hat
    Posts
    14,156
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    You obviously don't understand how a fandom works if you think one bad promotional is gonna stop long-standing Tolkien fans who want to see a good TV series based in Middle Earth. It's not, and that's part of the problem with the Superfans promo. Who was it made for? Obviously the casual audience, since none of the Superfans were actual Tolkien fans at all and had practically zero knowledge about Middle Earth and its mythology outside 'having watched the movies'. But casual audiences wouldn't care about watching a 'Superfans' promo either, they'd just be the casual audience. So what we have are the fans who are anticipating Rings of Power and a Middle Earth-based TV series watching this abomination. That's what happened.

    A bad promo isn't going to stop fans passion for material they hold dear to them. It's just gonna be a sore spot that will be pointed out. It's too early to look back on and laugh at, like the 70's Star Wars Holiday specials. It's still a fresh wound, like the Star Wars sequel trilogy.
    The whole superfans thing was just a bunch of loser zoomers who had clearly never read the books and just wanted to bitch about Peter Jackson using a cast of characters who happened to represent the world as he saw it at the time, and that was a world rooted in British folklore.

  17. #9057
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    Well, first off you can go ahead and drop your fandom gatekeeping in suggesting what "real fans" are meant to do or know. Seriously, fuck off with that shit. Neither you nor anyone else in this thread dictates
    Sorry if you feel butthurt about having it not apply to you. Not my problem. Not once did I use the word 'real fans', so I don't know why you're even using that as an argument. Sounds like a strawman argument to me, really.

    If you don't like it, feel free to spend your precious time doing something else. Why waste our time complaining, right? I'm surely not dictating your reason to be here merely by responding to you.

    There was a lot of marketing material meant to hype up the series (as is the case with all big shows/movies). I certainly watched a couple of trailers leading up to the release, but that was about it. I guarantee you that all the posters that latched onto this particular promo did NOT watch every single cast appearance on late night shows, or read every single article that was published, or every single production promo. No, instead they rabidly locked onto the one marketing promo that best encapsulated their preemptive dislike of the show. I'm sure we can go back and see that most of these posters were already decrying the show from the moment the cast was revealed.
    What does that matter? I don't see the relevance. I could say there are posters here ready to defend the show before it even came out, no matter how bad it was. Wouldn't be any different would it? People are free to have their biases.

    The show certainly wasn't perfect, but it's laughable that this fucking promo, which may indeed be the cringiest promo every made (I don't know, still don't care to watch it), is still referenced incessantly as something pivotal to the series itself or of any importance whatsoever.
    I mean you say don't gatekeep the fandom, but you pretty much are doing that right here. Spaghettimonk only made a passing reference about it, while we're here because you decided to stir the pot about how irrelevant you think it is for anyone to complain about. That's also gatekeeping. If it ain't that important to you, you wouldn't have talked about it at all. And we wouldn't be here. It was literally a passing mention in his post. What happened instead was you decided to stir a hornet's nest, for whatever reason you decided it was necessary. And that's why Rogoth came out of nowhere with his response to you. He hadn't really been in the thread for quite some time.

    All I'm pointing out is why people are still sore about it. I couldn't care less about the promo. That doesn't mean it's not important to them, that doesn't mean it shouldn't be important at all.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2023-02-15 at 03:41 AM.

  18. #9058
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Sorry if you feel butthurt about having it not apply to you. Not my problem. Not once did I use the word 'real fans', so I don't know why you're even using that as an argument. Sounds like a strawman argument to me, really.
    What? Having what not apply to me? The line you quoted had nothing to do with me personally so what are you talking about here?

    And don't play dumb. "Since none of the Superfans were actual Tolkien fans at all" is very much you trying to dictate who the "real fans" are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Spaghettimonk only made a passing reference about it, while we're here because you decided to stir the pot about how irrelevant you think it is for anyone to complain about.

    All I'm pointing out is why people are still sore about it. I couldn't care less about the promo. That doesn't mean it's not important to them, that doesn't mean it shouldn't be important at all.
    Talk about a fucking straw man. We're here because YOU decided to take it upon yourself to explain how "passionate fans" should act.

    Spaghetti made a passing reference? No. He said that promo specifically (and a completely different, unconnected show) was what made him expect that RoP would be bad. The conversation between us was over last page after he essentially said that he's fine watching things he doesn't really enjoy.

    And lets not forget that the post of mine YOU responded to was actually referencing a different poster. One who wrote a bizarre 2,000 word essay on the promo in question.

    I know you're one of those people who likes to think that all opinions are equal, and if someone says something is important then no one can say it isn't. No, that's not how things work. Amazon promoting their own product using random people reacting to [checks notes] a teaser trailer objectively has no bearing on the quality of the show itself. People can say whatever they want about how it made them decide the show would be bad, and I have no issue pointing out how absurd that is.

    Hate the promo because it's weird and cringey? Fine. Hate the show because it wasn't what you wanted/expected? Fine. Talk about how the quality of the promo had anything to do with the quality of the show? Yeah, I'll point out how silly that is. Spaghetti shrugged it off. Rogoth lost his fucking mind (as per usual). And you jumped in... why?

  19. #9059
    Herald of the Titans rogoth's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    in the land of killer unicrons
    Posts
    2,516
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    What? Having what not apply to me? The line you quoted had nothing to do with me personally so what are you talking about here?

    And don't play dumb. "Since none of the Superfans were actual Tolkien fans at all" is very much you trying to dictate who the "real fans" are.



    Talk about a fucking straw man. We're here because YOU decided to take it upon yourself to explain how "passionate fans" should act.

    Spaghetti made a passing reference? No. He said that promo specifically (and a completely different, unconnected show) was what made him expect that RoP would be bad. The conversation between us was over last page after he essentially said that he's fine watching things he doesn't really enjoy.

    And lets not forget that the post of mine YOU responded to was actually referencing a different poster. One who wrote a bizarre 2,000 word essay on the promo in question.

    I know you're one of those people who likes to think that all opinions are equal, and if someone says something is important then no one can say it isn't. No, that's not how things work. Amazon promoting their own product using random people reacting to [checks notes] a teaser trailer objectively has no bearing on the quality of the show itself. People can say whatever they want about how it made them decide the show would be bad, and I have no issue pointing out how absurd that is.

    Hate the promo because it's weird and cringey? Fine. Hate the show because it wasn't what you wanted/expected? Fine. Talk about how the quality of the promo had anything to do with the quality of the show? Yeah, I'll point out how silly that is. Spaghetti shrugged it off. Rogoth lost his fucking mind (as per usual). And you jumped in... why?
    lets just address your asinine points shall we:

    first off, it's categorical fact that these 'superfans' are not in anyway shape or form 'Tolkien fans', not only is their entire portfolio of content devoid of ANYTHING relating to middle earth, in the instance of the 'straight black girl social justice warrior', she put a video on instagram where she was asked the question 'are you gonna watch rings of power?' and she said that she was having too much fun watching house of the dragon and that if she had time/felt like it, she would wait until rings of power had fully released and binge it then, leaving off with: quote: 'rings of power is gonna need to do something special if it's gonna beat house of the dragon hahahahaha'.

    you're conflating gatekeeping to calling out instagram 'influencers' who are there paid to do a job who have no interest in the material they are reviewing and are there purely to tick a box on a sheet of paper to appeal to whichever minorities the company (in this case Amazon) have designated as important groups to appeal to, it's got nothing to do with saying who 'real fans' are because these clowns in this video are not fans, the only knowledge they have of the source material is what they have picked up through social osmosis and maybe as a side effect of what the PJ movies brought to the table, along with what they were coached and directed to say because it's VERY FUCKING CLEAR that the 'gay black man' in this video wasn't sure at all about what he was saying and was constantly looking at or near the camera to get some sort of off screen recognition from the director that he was doing ok.

    once again, this entire post from you smacks of ignorance and stupidity, why?, because you stated clearly you have no interest in watching or engaging with the material, yet you feel the need to comment on the subject matter as if you have a wealth of knowledge about it, when in fact you don't and every time you 'open your mouth' a mess of babble falls out all over the place with no meaning or substance, the only thing your words are doing is as stated is 'stirring the pot' and 'wasting bandwidth' because you have no point, it's all just glorified ad hominem bullshit.

    it's actually enlightening to me just how difficult it is for your American brain to ratify what is going on here, it's honestly interesting to me to see someone so clearly struggling to understand something and fight as hard as they can to justify their point while simultaneously failing to grasp why people don't agree with them in the first place.

    Lastly, and this is actually something important and i hope it will actually educate you but i suspect you will just ignore it because that's what you do, but i'll try to illustrate the point anyway:

    the 'quality' of this 'promo' had and has DIRECT CORRELATION to the 'quality' of the show, this promo was clearly staged, badly directed, badly cast and badly presented, would you know it, that's EXACTLY HOW THE SHOW TURNED OUT, almost a carbon copy in fact it's actually scary at just how similar in 'quality' these 'superfans' videos were to the 'quality' of the overall production as a whole and actually set the tone for what to expect from this raging dumpster fire of a project.

    but of course, you haven't watched these videos, you don't know the scope of anything because you fail to grasp the concept, as a result of that you then fail to understand the underlying issues, and as a result of that, we are brought to this conclusion that you are making nothing but asinine comments based on flawed information that have no bearing on reality except that which causes you're deluded way of thinking, and in a thread on a fan site which is approaching 10,000 interactions, you are in the distinct minority of people defending this show, and trying to defend the foundation it is built upon, which is a woke disaster that focussed on casting people based on their skin colour instead of casting people that made sense to the lore, a show that focussed on tearing up the source material, rewriting it and bastardising it so badly as to be unrecognisable to the original beloved work, a show so universally hated in all measurable metrics yet is still being touted as a 'success' because some manager in a suit high up decided to spin it that way instead of actually reporting things as they are, but by all means keep defending this travesty, keep living in your little American bubble of delusion, i'm sure nothing could possibly go wrong from it.

  20. #9060
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    Talk about a fucking straw man. We're here because YOU decided to take it upon yourself to explain how "passionate fans" should act.
    Er, no?

    No where did I ever imply how anyone should act. I explained why certain people were reacting to the promos when you personally felt it was unimportant. The context of my reply is about how fans reacted to the promo, and how one bad promo wouldn't have stopped these long-time fans from watching the show. It's not a statement on how all fans should act.

    You're the one strawmanning this into a statement about how fans should act, not me. Take a step back and read everything I wrote in my response without the bullshit filter you're trying to apply to it.

    Hate the promo because it's weird and cringey? Fine. Hate the show because it wasn't what you wanted/expected? Fine. Talk about how the quality of the promo had anything to do with the quality of the show? Yeah, I'll point out how silly that is. Spaghetti shrugged it off. Rogoth lost his fucking mind (as per usual). And you jumped in... why?
    Because you're doing the exact thing you tried attacking me of - dictating how fans should react. This is one of your quotes:

    "If you’re a fan of the books or the movies, that doesn’t mean you should feel compelled to watch something completely different just because it’s related (if you’ve already pretty much decided you weren’t going to enjoy it)."

    Well how would you know what other fans should or shouldn't do? You're not other fans.

    You see? This is the double standard you're applying here. So honestly, who are you actually mad at here?

    I'm not the one trying to dismiss anyone's opinion. You are. I'm not the one making a statement on how people should be reacting. You are. Let's make this very clear.

    Whether or not you think it's silly or not is up to you, and that's fine. But just because it's unimportant to you is not due cause to imply it's unimportant to anyone else. That's the simple truth of the matter.


    I know you're one of those people who likes to think that all opinions are equal, and if someone says something is important then no one can say it isn't. No, that's not how things work
    The way it works is if someone says it's important to them, then it's important to them. If someone feels it's not important to them, then it's not important to them. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and it doesn't affect anyone else's judgement.

    No one is saying 'if it's important then no one can say it isn't'. All I've done was present that there are people who consider it important to them. At no point did I say anyone has to agree with them; I don't think the promo was important at all. I don't think there is any reason to dismiss the importance of it to someone else just because I personally don't share their opinion. I can understand why they feel the way they do, even if I don't agree with their sentiment.

    The opposite is actually happening right now, where you're proclaiming it to be unimportant, and expect everyone to agree. Well, I agree the promo was unimportant. But I don't think everyone else needs to agree. People have their own reasons for having their own opinions, fans have their reasons for acting in ways that you feel they shouldn't have to. I'm not sure why you see this as a problem. There isn't any universal way any fan should or shouldn't be acting.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2023-02-15 at 06:07 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •