1. #9081
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    The answer is that none exists.

    That answer doesn't change either.
    Well to quote you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Or you're just being dishonest.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  2. #9082
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Well to quote you.
    You can quote it but the answer is still true, lol.

    No single metric is universal or equal in the industry. @Fencers can jump in to clarify that as well if he wishes to, if that's who you will believe.

    I'm not disputing Nielsen ratings as being inaccurate, I'm presenting the simple fact that its metrics are very specific to Streaming and not Total Viewership, which fudges all the numbers of the things we're actually talking about. If we're going to talk about performance and comparisons of various shows, then there's no reason to merely rely on Nielsen ratings as a defacto 'metric of the industry'.

    I'm honestly baffled by how this is lost to you guys, who think there is only one defacto method ofanalytics just because it happens to be reliable and widespread.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2023-02-09 at 07:03 PM.

  3. #9083
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    You can quote it but the answer is still true, lol.

    No single metric is universal or equal in the industry. @Fencers can jump in to clarify that as well if he wishes to, if that's who you will believe.
    And to quote my self.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    There may be other metrics but they aren’t all equal and some are obviously more wide spread then others and it seems disingenuous to act like people aren’t talking about the most widely used one when saying it’s THE metric.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  4. #9084
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    And to quote my self.
    There may be other metrics but they aren’t all equal and some are obviously more wide spread then others and it seems disingenuous to act like people aren’t talking about the most widely used one when saying it’s THE metric.

    Which is only applicable to the US, and not the world.

    WHereas something like Google Trends is actually applicable world-wide.

    Like I said, I don't think you actually understand what you're actually trying to defend. Nielsen ratings are very accurate, very reliable, and very trust-worthy. It's also very specific to analyzing minutes watched in the US. Everything we're regarding in terms of Nielsen is very specific to the metrics it's calculating. There is no reason to tout it as a 'Metric of the industry' any more than trying to argue that because Imperial measurement is widely used in the US, it's the 'Metric of the industry'.

    The answer is there is no singular metric for the industry, and that it all depends on what companies we're talking about.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2023-02-09 at 07:11 PM.

  5. #9085
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Like I said, I don't think you actually understand what you're actually trying to defend.
    Every one understands it perfectly well you just don’t have any thing of value to add which is why I can just quote my earlier post as you re cover things we already went over and why you have tried to move the goal post numerous times.
    Last edited by Lorgar Aurelian; 2023-02-09 at 07:19 PM.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  6. #9086
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Every one understands it perfectly well you just don’t have any thing of value to add which is why I can just quote my earlier post as you re cover things we already went over and why you have tried to move the goal post numerous times.
    Everyone understands it to be A metric that the industry uses. Not everyone agrees it to be THE metric that the industry uses. That's a big difference.

    Otherwise people wouldn't bother refuting what Fabinas said, considering it would have been perfectly fine if he said it was a popular and widespread, reliable metric that the industry uses.

    There is no goalpost moving, you just don't recognize there to be a big difference in the statement. That's your choice to recognize as there being little-to-no difference. Not my problem if you don't recognize the differences in something you have little understanding in.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2023-02-09 at 07:25 PM.

  7. #9087
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Everyone understands it to be A metric that the industry uses. Not everyone agrees it to be THE metric that the industry uses. That's a big difference.

    Otherwise people wouldn't bother refuting what Fabinas said, considering it would have been perfectly fine if he said it was a popular and widespread, reliable metric that the industry uses.
    Ah my mistake let me rephrase, every one excluding the 5 or so if you bending over backwards any way you can to deny any and all success.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  8. #9088
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Ah my mistake let me rephrase, every one excluding the 5 or so if you bending over backwards any way you can to deny any and all success.
    As opposed to the 3 or so of you who are agreeing?

    I don't 'think this matters considering we're talking about Nielsen ratings as metrics, not about 'denying any and all success'.

    I've said many times before in this thread that Rings of Power can be considered successful regardless of the Nielsen ratings, because Amazon has their own metrics that defined success for themselves. The Amazon exec came out to tout its success without mentioning or regarding Nielsen ratings at all, for example.

    You're misunderstanding my argument if you think I'm denying Rings of Power's success. This is about disposing the claim that Nielsen ratings are 'THE metric of the industry'
    Last edited by Triceron; 2023-02-09 at 07:37 PM.

  9. #9089
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    No single metric is universal or equal in the industry.
    This is accurate. There are multiple ways of looking at the data for viewers and engagement within any media and content producer. Some, at their personal discretion, care about this or that metric more than another. The entertainment media business has standards for where & how they acquire that data.

    Data of any kind is often taken as a whole with specific data delivery used to show/measure whatever a property owner is interested in for the product or their goals for the product. See my earlier example about Apple's Coda.

    It is worth noting creative nor developmental are neither the same people/decision makers as those in charge of marketing, licensing, franchise marketing, etc. These are all different departments and executives in most cases.

    Paul Kotas doesn't necessarily have the same job as Jennifer Salke despite being in the same division at one point. And they may care about different data points than someone else.

    Amazon, as a whole, cares about money.

  10. #9090
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    Thing is the whole discussion stems from your post where you mentioned that Nielsen ratings is one of the most important and objective metrics in the industry. An entry there can signify success.

    Triceron denies that, by being disingenuous and grasping at a single straw. The fact that i said it's THE METRIC of the industry. He grasps the word "THE" and plays dumb, in order to troll, like i denied the existence of other metrics.

    Where i only repeated what you have multiple times posted. That entry in Nielsen Ratings shows success of a show.
    /spit@Blizzard

  11. #9091
    Quote Originally Posted by Fabinas View Post
    Thing is the whole discussion stems from your post where you mentioned that Nielsen ratings is one of the most important and objective metrics in the industry. An entry there can signify success.

    Triceron denies that, by being disingenuous and grasping at a single straw. The fact that i said it's THE METRIC of the industry. He grasps the word "THE" and plays dumb, in order to troll, like i denied the existence of other metrics.

    Where i only repeated what you have multiple times posted. That entry in Nielsen Ratings shows success of a show.
    Which is someone saying Netflix was a very popular and widely used streaming platform that is important to the entire Streaming and TV industry overall, and you taking that to mean Netflix is THE streaming platform of the industry.

    It's a misappropriation of equating a single popular metric as equivalent to being the industry standard.

    It's a fallacy of correlation. Like saying Subway measures their sandwiches using the widely-used Imperial measurement sytstem(Foot-longs) and correlating a claim that it's THE metric for the food industry. We're talking about two different things. I wouldn't deny that Imperial is widely used, I wouldn't deny that Subway is indeed using this measurement system. I would dispute it being called THE metric of the food industry.

    It's not playing dumb if I'm literally correcting your usage of the terminology, and being very clear on explaining why it's a dishonest application.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2023-02-09 at 08:45 PM.

  12. #9092
    Quote Originally Posted by Fabinas View Post
    The fact is that THIS IS THE METRIC USED by the industry.

    You not accepting it, calling it nonsensical etc, has no bearing or influence to the fact above.
    Last year the Minnesota Timberwolves traded for Rudy Gobert, because the metrics they used told them he’d fix their defense. At the time, a lot of people thought it was a very suspect transaction.

    6 months later and those people appear to have been right, and the almighty metrics were just… wrong.

    Industries make mistakes all the time and pay for it. They choose the wrong metrics, they don’t account for changing times that make those obsolete, etc. This is a fact too.

  13. #9093
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    You're arguing semantics. You try to form arguments from single words, ignoring the whole discussion that already has taken place.

    You're transforming things that have been said to things that haven't been said. You're using false equivalents that have no bearing or meaning to the actual discussion.

    You bore me. I won't be arsed to play this game.

    And Amazon will always be able to claim RoP was successful, because it had the 15th spot on Nielsen Streaming top 15 for 2022 for most minutes viewed.

    Now keep denying that.
    /spit@Blizzard

  14. #9094
    Quote Originally Posted by Fabinas View Post
    You're transforming things that have been said to things that haven't been said. You're using false equivalents that have no bearing or meaning to the actual discussion.
    ---

    And Amazon will always be able to claim RoP was successful, because it had the 15th spot on Nielsen Streaming top 15 for 2022 for most minutes viewed.
    And Amazon never claimed RoP was successful for being on Nielsen's Streaming top 15.

    An Amazon exec came out to claim RoP's success based on their own internal metrics, which happens to be based on first-clicks and total viewership numbers.

    You understand that the people who brought up the Nielsen Streaming top 15 as an argument point are doing so without regards to how Amazon actually considers Rings of Power to be successful, right? It's been a moot argument point from the beginning.

    The only ones claiming RoP to be successful because it made the top 15 are people in this thread. This is why the claim that Nielsen ratings are THE metric of the industry is completely misappropriated. The streaming industry is not standardized around any single, universal metric that applies equally across all platforms
    Last edited by Triceron; 2023-02-09 at 09:01 PM.

  15. #9095
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    It's not though, nowhere in Rings of Power does anyone mention "YER JERBS," that's a South Park meme you've picked up from somewhere and substituted for the actual show.
    They did, its the same shit they just trade WORD job for trade, it have the same meaning, tis the same fucking allegory, no matter how you try to spin this shit around

    No they're not. Losing trade to workers in another place is different to losing your job to immigrants even if the result is the same (unemployment.) Your failure to grasp this is...not actually that surprising.
    Both are vallid in a sense of both happens, not that they are the same lmao, the only failure(apart form the show) is you understanding this.


    Adar is an Orc, one of the first Orcs, and his entire arc is about showing Orcs in a more sympathetic light as people who deserve their own homeland and a chance to live their own way. Generally that's what people whinge about the "shades of grey" aspect, not whatever it is you've picked up.
    Adar is a corrupted elf still, he is not an orc, someone middle transition.

    What in the fucking hell do you see people exterminating and butchering the locals and burning the en tire land with a fucking volcano is "sympathetic light because homeland"?


    Now you are going to tell me the hobbit story is a sensible story about community and friendship as well when they literally let their own to die? LOL

  16. #9096
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    6 months later and those people appear to have been right, and the almighty metrics were just… wrong.
    So the Nielsen metrics are wrong? Isn't it strange that if they showed the show barely got any viewership you would be trusting them. The key difference between what is being used to call Rings of Power a success and your basketball analogy is that the basketball one was trying to predict future performance based on past/present performance. The Nielsen ratings are showing past/present performance. An entirely different thing that you clearly don't understand.

    Why is it so hard to allow for Rings of Power to have been successful?
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  17. #9097
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    They did, its the same shit they just trade WORD job for trade, it have the same meaning, tis the same fucking allegory, no matter how you try to spin this shit around
    So in Rings of Power someone says the "they took er jerbs" meme from South Park that you're unwittingly parroting, only they changed the words... so it isn't the same thing is it? If they use different words, they're not using the same words, so they're saying something different.

    Both are vallid in a sense of both happens, not that they are the same lmao, the only failure(apart form the show) is you understanding this.
    So they're not the same, and only one of them is mentioned in RoP, so why do you keep insisting it's actually the other one?

    Adar is a corrupted elf still, he is not an orc, someone middle transition.
    Not transitioning, he was twisted by Mordor and corrupted into an orc (though he prefers uruk.) At least that's what the series says but I'm sure you'll feel free to replace any of those words with ones you prefer.

    What in the fucking hell do you see people exterminating and butchering the locals and burning the en tire land with a fucking volcano is "sympathetic light because homeland"?
    Because the Orcs are just as much victims of Morgoth and Sauron, if not more so, than any of the Free Peoples of Middle-earth and their evil and brutality is the result of souls that could have lived in the grace of Illuvatar being twisted to the designs of a Dark Lord. Tolkien said they were to be pitied more than anything and that the path to redemption would be open to them, though he couldn't imagine what it would take for an Orc to walk that path.

    Now you are going to tell me the hobbit story is a sensible story about community and friendship as well when they literally let their own to die? LOL
    I find the Harfoots fascinating, when settled they're all about community and friendship as you say, but when it's time to move they will leave people to die and only carry them in memory. It's probably a culture developed by necessity as they are very much at the bottom of most food chains and vulnerable when on the move, but the way it's accepted plays nicely with my theory that Hobbits (or their ancestors) split from Men shortly after they awoke at Hildorean and avoided the darkness that Morgoth and Sauron put in the hearts of men which ultimately allowed Smeagol, Bilbo and Frodo (and Sam I guess) to bear the Ring for so long. Possibly Illuvatar gave them their diminished sizes for just that reason.

  18. #9098
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    They did, its the same shit they just trade WORD job for trade, it have the same meaning, tis the same fucking allegory, no matter how you try to spin this shit around
    He is talking about YOU specifically using those words when the show didn't. yes they said something along the line of worrying about trade, but they didn't quote a meme, word for word, like you did....


    That is what he is trying to say.
    MMO-Champ the place where calling out trolls get you into more trouble than trolling.

  19. #9099
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    So the divide of the faithful and the King's Men was not about their views of elves? Their was no dislike or prejudice from the King's Men faction towards the elves? There is no reason to try to interject American politics into this discussion.
    lol

    Clearly the Númenóreans disliked the Elves because they were chuds who had irrational fears of falling living standards due to immigration. Awesome spin on a classic Tolkien story and very relatable to modern audiences.
    The absolute state of Warcraft lore in 2021:
    Kyrians: We need to keep chucking people into the Maw because it's our job.
    Also Kyrians: Why is the Maw growing stronger despite all our efforts?

  20. #9100
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    -blablering
    not going to entertain this point anymore, you are wrong, and were pointed by many people already.
    Not transitioning, he was twisted by Mordor and corrupted into an orc (though he prefers uruk.) At least that's what the series says but I'm sure you'll feel free to replace any of those words with ones you prefer.
    He is an elf with a scar on his face, he have no resemble whatsoever to the orcs

    At best they can do for you, is mention he is a Mirondor(Galadriel mention the name, and he doesn't confirm neither deny), that are the first elves twisted to the dark side, that eventually would give birth to the first orcs.

    Because the Orcs are just as much victims of Morgoth and Sauron, if not more so,
    They being victims is not a point here, you said they put then in a sensible light

    you can't put then in a sensible light when you also show they killing innocent and burning down their houses, see the difference of how warcraft put orcs in a sensible light with thrall story.


    I find the Harfoots fascinating, when settled they're all about community and friendship as you say, but when it's time to move they will leave people to die and only carry them in memory
    Of course you would, now i know you ar eindeed trolling twisting the facts like this.

    Dude broke his feet: well its time for you to die buddy, we will carry you in our memory as we ridicularize your death with the others


    Or better, when something goes wrong, we take the wheels of your wagon so get fucked, true friendship

    this is sick.

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