1. #9101
    Where are the complaints over gatekeeping 'real fans' coming from? I see this being mentioned time and time again but like... No one has ever said this?

  2. #9102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    Point well proven :-)

    Just checking checking though - you do know the top 15 Nielsen reports isn't just out of 15, right? They track all the shows in that category and just show the top 15. Think of music charts, a song that sits at number 10 in the top ten hasn't come last out of a group of 10 songs, it's also beaten all the other songs that didn't make it I to the top 10.
    The show, quality wise, was SHIT. CRAP. Irredeemable Garbage.

    The fact that some parts were nice or ok (Durin/Elrond, CGI) does not alter the above. Which is clearly my opinion, but i will keep voicing it, anyway, whether you like it or disagree.

    Also, the fact that it hit Nielsen's Top 15 for most minutes viewed in Streaming is an objective fact that noone can deny. ALso that it can be used from Amazon as a leverage for the show's success, should they wish to do so.

    But the latter fact has nothing to do with the former.

    Stop conflating stuff.
    /spit@Blizzard

  3. #9103
    The Unstoppable Force rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    no matter if it made 15th position in a top 15th that only cover the US views, i know some people like to think that USA is the bellybutton of the world, but isn't, it is a failure of a show.
    So every show of 2022 that didn't get 14 or higher was a failure? The mental gymnastics that you, and others, keep using is hilarious. You say you are only talking about the show to "make fun of it" yet you keep lying to yourself about it at the same time. You can make fun of it and acknowledge its success. It really does show how you are hating just for the sake of it at this point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    Ignore the drones, they are little better than bad AI made by amazon.
    Pure copium. People that don't hate as you do have to be AI made by Amazon. Lmao.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    do you also know they are only counting streaming only stuff right? thats why House of the dragon isn't there, and is also only counting original stuff, AND only for us numbers, do you also realize that right?
    House of the Dragon would be on the streaming charts. Only it's streaming portion is tracked because it is a top 15 list of streaming shows. Why would you expect non-streaming shows to be tracked? You are essentially complaining that in the Olympics swimming is a failure because they don't include sprinting in medal considerations.

    US only doesn't matter because it still shows the show was an overwhelming success in the US. Plenty of things are not world wide hits but are still successful shows.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    Amazon has apparently been spending huge money on tv shows for years. Before this thread I haven’t really heard of any of these except Sneaky Pete and Jack Ryan. They must have lost a huge amount on prime video so far.
    Why would they have lost money when producing shows with "normal" size budgets? Does every TV company lose money? Besides we know from the leaks that is false because Amazon considers to have made money on a lot of their series based on internal metrics. Netflix does the same thing and has made a profit most of the time. There really is no difference in this regard between Prime Video and Netflix. Netflix has a few 100+ million productions that didn't do well.

    You are blinding yourself to facts here by your desire to hate on the Rings of Power. It isn't a failure just because you didn't like it despite your best efforts to rationalize that.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  4. #9104
    Merely a Setback Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Where are the complaints over gatekeeping 'real fans' coming from? I see this being mentioned time and time again but like... No one has ever said this?
    From the last couple pages.

    Saying people aren’t fans because Tolkien isn’t in there portfolio
    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post

    first off, it's categorical fact that these 'superfans' are not in anyway shape or form 'Tolkien fans', not only is their entire portfolio of content devoid of ANYTHING relating to middle earth, in the instance of the 'straight black girl social justice warrior', she put a video on instagram where she was asked the question 'are you gonna watch rings of power?' and she said that she was having too much fun watching house of the dragon and that if she had time/felt like it, she would wait until rings of power had fully released and binge it then, leaving off with: quote: 'rings of power is gonna need to do something special if it's gonna beat house of the dragon hahahahaha'.
    Saying there are no fans who liked the show.
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    Personally it’s a great place for me to connect with other Tolkien fans who also hated the show. Haven’t yet met one who truly liked it.

    But it’s gotten sidetracked by the white knights.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  5. #9105
    Herald of the Titans rogoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    From the last couple pages.

    Saying people aren’t fans because Tolkien isn’t in there portfolio


    Saying there are no fans who liked the show.
    so let me get this straight, you don't need any previous knowledge of the source material, or produce any content on any social media platform surrounding said source material to be considered a 'superfan' of said source material?, well that's good to know, consider me a 'superfan' of *insert any fucking franchise here* even though i might not have ANY KNOWLEDGE of what the actual plot is or the characters therein, because apparently according to you, you don't need any underlying knowledge to be considered a 'superfan' of anything it seems.

  6. #9106
    Merely a Setback Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    so let me get this straight, you don't need any previous knowledge of the source material, or produce any content on any social media platform surrounding said source material to be considered a 'superfan' of said source material?, well that's good to know, consider me a 'superfan' of *insert any fucking franchise here* even though i might not have ANY KNOWLEDGE of what the actual plot is or the characters therein, because apparently according to you, you don't need any underlying knowledge to be considered a 'superfan' of anything it seems.
    Depends on how you want to define “superfan”.

    But to be a fan in “anyway shape or form” no you don’t need to post on social media at all or produce any content even if you are an “influencer”, nor do you need to have any previous knowledge of the Silmarillion to be a fan of Tolkien as you said even in that post they could know about his work through the Jackson movies.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  7. #9107
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    From the last couple pages.

    Saying people aren’t fans because Tolkien isn’t in there portfolio


    Saying there are no fans who liked the show.
    One is a comment about how fake the 'superfans' in the promo were, the other is an anecdote of how a person doesn't personally know people who truly enjoyed the show. I don't see how this results in actively complaining over gatekeeping that isn't actually happening.

    If someone doesn't think the people in the promo were real fans, then that'a their own opinion. If someone doesn't recognize anyone personally having enjoyed the show, that is their own experience. That isn't being broadly applied to anyone here. As I said, I don't see where this gatekeeping is happening.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2023-02-19 at 06:04 PM.

  8. #9108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Yeah, neither of those are comments relating to 'real fans' that would be considered offensive to anyone.

    One is a comment about how fake the 'superfans' in the promo were, the other is an anecdote of how a person doesn't personally know people who truly enjoyed the show. I don't see how this results in actively complaining over gatekeeping that isn't actually happening.
    who said any thing about offence? You asked for examples I provided.

    One is about how the “super fans” and says they aren’t Tolkien fans in “anyway shape or form” because there not posting on social media about his works and the other is about how this thread is great to meet Tolkien fans and how none of said fans liked the show, IE all the posters who liked the show and have been posting about Tolkiens works and how they enjoy them don’t fall into fans.

    Both are gate keeping rather that gate keeping is “offensive” or not.




    Superfan' is specific to what Amazon decided to call their own promo influencers. It isn't a definition that is being applied outside that context, like to any Tolkien fandom or group of fans. How I understand it to be, no one is using Superfan outside thr context of the promo, and all criticisms of Superfans is exclusive to the promo.

    Not sure why anyone would be upset about gatekeeping if it's not happening.
    Amazon says there super fans, others say they aren’t fans at all, people are gonna define “super fans” differently then Amazon who could just means “fans in our promo”.

    That’s why I said it depends on how you define it, to me “super fans” mean nothing, others how ever are clearly upset that Amazon would use the term and apply it to people they don’t see as fans at all.
    Last edited by Lorgar Aurelian; 2023-02-19 at 06:08 PM.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  9. #9109
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    Everything I said in my initial post is something that was said very few posts before it. While I no longer really participate in the thread much, I still read it. I suggest also reading before replying.
    Maybe that is the problem, you're reading too much into it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Amazon says there super fans, others say they aren’t fans at all, people are gonna define “super fans” different the Amazon who could just means “fans in our promo”.

    That’s why I said it depends on how you define it, to keep “super fans” mean nothing others how ever are clearly upset that Amazon would use the term and apply it to people they don’t see as fans at all.
    And I don't see how anyone should have a problem with that regardless. It isn't being applied to people who watch the show who aren't influencers in the promo. The context is solidly placed at Amazon and this promo.

  10. #9110
    Merely a Setback Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    And I don't see how anyone should have a problem with that regardless. It isn't being applied to people who watch the show who aren't influencers in the promo. The context is solidly placed at Amazon and this promo.
    Again I’m just providing examples of gate keeping “real fans” I can’t tell you why people have a problem of it I’m just pointing you to where it happened.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  11. #9111
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Again I’m just providing examples of gate keeping “real fans” I can’t tell you why people have a problem of it I’m just pointing you to where it happened.
    And I here saying I think they're bad examples considering the comments weren't actually criticisms being taken outside the context of the promo.

  12. #9112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    And I here saying I think they're bad examples considering the comments weren't actually criticisms being taken outside the context of the promo.
    Rather it’s about the promo or not it’s still gate keeping real fans.


    And the second one isn’t even about the promo it’s about this thread and how out of the fans to connect with in the thread there are none that liked the show.
    Last edited by Lorgar Aurelian; 2023-02-19 at 06:45 PM.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  13. #9113
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    And the second one isn’t even about the promo it’s about this thread and how out of the fans to connect with in the thread there are none that liked the show.
    Then that's just ignorance, not censorship.

    Expressing a personal anecdote, even in ignorance, is not a statement on who can or can not enjoy the show.

    You can point out what is being complained about, and I can point out how it has nothing to do with the complaint.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2023-02-19 at 07:08 PM.

  14. #9114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Then that's just ignorance, not censorship.
    No it’s dishonestly and gate keeping.
    Last edited by Lorgar Aurelian; 2023-02-19 at 07:14 PM.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  15. #9115
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    No it’s dishonestly and hate keeping.
    Which isn't relevant to the complaint, and is something different entirely.

    Are we accepting goalpost shifting now somehow?

  16. #9116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Which isn't relevant to the complaint, and is something different entirely.

    Are we accepting goalpost shifting now somehow?

    Typos on gate aside, no it’s nothing different they were gate keeping and your trying to say that gate keeping was just ignorance when just reading the back and forth makes it clear it’s dishonesty instead as they not only said no fans liked it they went out of there way to point to them being white knights instead.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  17. #9117
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Typos on gate aside, no it’s nothing different they were gate keeping and your trying to say that gate keeping was just ignorance when just reading the back and forth makes it clear it’s dishonesty instead as they not only said no fans liked it they went out of there way to point to them being white knights instead.
    You call it dishonesty but ignorance isn't immediately dishonesty.

    For all I know, maybe he was talking about people in real life and not about random stranger opinions that he doesn't trust, that wouldn't be dishonest even if it is ignorant.

    He didn't say no fans liked it, he said he didn't know any who did. That's quite a leap to assume his statement implies that he knows every fan, and is being blatantly dishonest about them all.

    I hope you understand how I don't consider twisting personal anecdotes into arguments to be examples of gatekeeping.

    If I say 'I don't know any pizza lovers who likes pineapple on pizza' it shouldn't be regarded as a gatekeeping statement against Hawaiian pizza. For all you know maybe I only know two people who love pizza, and they both happen to not like Hawaiian pizza. It's an anecdote, not a statement. IMO, it's not a reason for anyone to take offense to it. Even if it were 'hatekeeping' as you call it, it remains an anecdote of personal opinion.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2023-02-19 at 08:04 PM.

  18. #9118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    You call it dishonesty but ignorance isn't immediately dishonesty.

    For all I know, maybe he was talking about people in real life and not about random stranger opinions that he doesn't trust, that wouldn't be dishonest even if it is ignorant.

    He didn't say no fans liked it, he said he didn't know any who did. That's quite a leap to assume his statement implies that he knows every fan, and is being blatantly dishonest about them all.

    I hope you understand how I don't consider twisting personal anecdotes into arguments to be examples of gatekeeping.
    I call it dishonest because that's what it is just like you are being dishonest right now pretending that they were talking about real life when the post was in direct response to why people are here in this thread.

    But I shouldn't be surprised at this point given that you've said your just in the thread to troll in the past and are clearly continuing to do so.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  19. #9119
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    I call it dishonest because that's what it is just like you are being dishonest right now pretending that they were talking about real life when the post was in direct response to why people are here in this thread.

    But I shouldn't be surprised at this point given that you've said your just in the thread to troll in the past and are clearly continuing to do so.
    Isn't that also why you're here?

    Be honest

    You're not actually answering anything I talked about, just pointing other things you don't find agreeable and making judgements.

    At that point, you're just trolling by trying to spin a personal anecdote into being 'gatekeeping' for the sake of argument. What's the difference?

    If you know I'm here to troll and you engage in responding to me, and then continue to argue for the sake of arguing, then I don't this being my problem. If you want to be on the higher horse and pretend I'm the troll, then you're telling me you're the kinda guy who knowingly engages with trolls.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2023-02-19 at 08:23 PM.

  20. #9120
    Merely a Setback Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Isn't that also why you're here?

    Be honest

    You're not actually answering anything I talked about, just pointing other things you don't find agreeable and making judgements.

    At that point, you're just trolling by trying to spin a personal anecdote into being 'gatekeeping' for the sake of argument. What's the difference?

    If you know I'm here to troll and you engage in responding to me, and then continue to argue for the sake of arguing, then I don't this being my problem. If you want to be on the higher horse and pretend I'm the troll, then you're telling me you're the kinda guy who knowingly engages with trolls.
    No, The time's I've posted in a thread for the sake of trolling I could count on one hand and none of them have been in this one.

    Though your right it isn't your fault you have been clear your just here for the sake of trolling, I am the one at fault for forgetting that as I tend to do.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

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