Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[Rennadrel]

Because whatever they're doing, it's still performed better than any of Disney's shows. In Amazon's eyes, even if it failed to capture people watching it the full run, it's managed to get people to sub for a month and in turn use their Amazon account to buy stuff online because they have it active anyways (or it was always active, and watching the show was just a bonus). What matters to Amazon is the bottom line.

Amazon's business model has always been an outlier to how they gauge success. And really, if in the light of this news the Amazon heads of the series and of Prime Video are still touting it an internal success, then more power to them. They don't bank on LOTR's views, or 'ad revenue'. They bank on having it be a way people are drawn to subbing. Not staying subbed, not engaging in online reviews, not in promoting it on social media. Subbing to Amazon Prime, in order to buy shit online.


And let's not confuse this with talking about the quality of the show. It's pretty clear it could be a better show, and what we got was a mess. It has its problems and there are plenty, but nothing's gonna stop Amazon from making more if they consider it successful. And if they make more, then that's still better than having nothing, despite whatever haters want to say.

And to be very frank, anyone who thinks the show needs to be cancelled needs to get their priorities straightened out and a nice reality check on what they're actually being angry about. You can literally opt not to watch the show and ignore it completely. It existing and continuing to exist doesn't hurt anyone, especially if there's other LOTR properties right around the corner with War of the Rohirrim and potentially a LOTR reboot (for better or worse).

Even if it did better than any of Disney's shows, the budget definitely was not recovered from the viewer count. Most Disney+ shows don't blow a half a billion dollar budget on a single season, I'd be very surprised if their budgets even exceeded 100 million for a season per show.

[rhorle]

I mean to be fair we just had an article that said they were aiming for 50% retention

The article said that 50% is the usual level for "good" and not that Amazon was aiming for that goal. As they likely wanted it to be far higher. It is strange that you say you won't believe every word they said but will believe that of a "trusted source at Amazon". Do you not find it strange how many of you only believe things when it is negative about the show and don't when things are positive?

[Triceron]

Even if it did better than any of Disney's shows, the budget definitely was not recovered from the viewer count. Most Disney+ shows don't blow a half a billion dollar budget on a single season, I'd be very surprised if their budgets even exceeded 100 million for a season per show.

Where does their revenue come from? Where does their budget come from? Who determines whether the show made back its money?

These are all things you can find the information on.

Disney makes money directly off the shows and at their themeparks. Disney Plus is part of the theme park budget. They can't afford to blow big bucks on shows because they have to proportionally make that back in merchandise or theme park or ad revenue, which is difficult for Disney to do right now. Amazon on the other hand has a global online marketplace to tap into for revenue.

It's apple and oranges. If you even follow the news, Apple is considering buying Disney with just the cash they have offhand. Apple is way bigger than Disney and also in a similar position with their business model. Apple's online streaming platform does the same as Amazon - it's geared towards helping sell more services and product. And apple and Amazon both have much wider markets than Disney does in terms of consumers and product being sold.

[Golightly]

Only 37% of the viewers who started watching the show, watched it all? Ouch. That is bad...

[VMSmith]

I finally decided to try this out last night. Got to the point where the older brother whispers something about something after the wtf description of why rocks sink and boats sail and that was enough. At no moment did I feel like I was watching anything to do with Tolkien's world.

I'll grant that that was only 5-10 minutes, but if you can't capture even a slight bit of interest in that short of a time then I'm unlikely to enjoy any of the rest.

[Syegfryed]

I mean to be fair we just had an article that said they were aiming for 50% retention, and they got 37% in US, and 45% abroad. Not exactly the great success they wanted it to be, and considering that before the show dropped they said it HAD to be a big success or why have prime video*, I am not exactly going to sit here and believe every word they said. When you drop 500 million on a show you expect great things, and when you get bad retention on a show that is basically free for what hundreds of millions? Not a great look.

Well well, and people saying it was a success "just because amazon said so", maybe people will learn to not believe in everything some producers and higher-ups say, especially when we fucking see different

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It doesn't get any better.

Its gets so much worse

[rhorle]

Well well, and people saying it was a success "just because amazon said so", maybe people will learn to not believe in everything some producers and higher-ups say, especially when we fucking see different

It is amusing how Amazon can only be trusted when it is negative about the show. You are the one that takes Amazon at their word when they said book sales were up. Others have taken anonymous Amazon sources at their word when talking about season completion rates. Yet anything positive is "they could be lying". You don't see different. You desperately want it to be different. For some reason some of the people in this thread can't handle about amount of good news about the show.

Yet I'm sure you will all be back for the second, third, fourth, and fifth season.

[rhorle]

He’s got every possible heritage you can have and they’re like “nope not a lord.” The show ignored the lore to tell the story it wants.

Elrond was excluded from the council so they could talk about Galadriel. Elrond also was just a noble at that point and not the lord of a kingdom. In the lore he was a captain and herald of Gil-Galad. It is crazy how much hate you hold on to. You claim to not like the show yet you cling to it as much as a person who loves it.

[Triceron]

Well well, and people saying it was a success "just because amazon said so", maybe people will learn to not believe in everything some producers and higher-ups say, especially when we fucking see different\

No one says you can't believe differently.

The point of bringing Amazon into the equation is because the show will go on despite what any of us want to believe. And that's more of a success than a series like Willow will ever get.

[Triceron]

I care what he believes! Pretty sure you’re not capable of speaking for everyone here. That’s just rude!

Guy on the internet tells another guy on the internet “you’re just a guy on the internet”. This particular nonsense argument was old ten years ago.

You care what you believe and like to hear others parrot it. That's quite different.

If he didn't have an opinion that shared your own, you wouldn't really care at all, so this doesn't have much to do with caring about his particular opinion.

[Triceron]

Thanks for telling me what I think. You must be omniscient! What's that like?

Have you even had an actual conversation with him before claiming to care about his opinion?

What is his actual stance on the show, what does he like, and what doesn't he like about the show? What episodes did he enjoy more than others? Do you actually know what his opinion is?

[Delekii]

Wow, there are a crazy amount of Amazon Executives who post on MMO champ, who woulda thought it! Before this thread I had no idea!

Not sure why I bother reading MMO threads on tv and movies anymore, it's like a giant echo chamber.

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Your position is mystifying. The whole reason people come to this thread is to hear opinions and share their own, comparing them with others. I don't run everyone through a vetting process before deciding whether I care about their opinions. I care about opinions I disagree with (except Rhorle's and Kenn's) and opinions I don't disagree with. I care about your opinion - we agree and disagree sometimes. But it feels like all of this should be obvious.

Are you saying that anytime someone posts, you pm them to ask them all those questions before you decide whether you care about it? Because that's what your post is directly saying you have to do to decide whether you care about their opinion.

I do have a serious problem with the "you're just a guy on the internet" argument because it's sophomoric - we're all just guys on the internet.

The problem is not people having opinions and sharing those opinions. It's people who are "just guys on the internet" having opinions they have no place having, either by misrepresenting facts or simply claiming "nobody I know" blah blah.

Having opinions is fine when related to subjective things. Presenting facts is fine. Subverting facts to support opinions is not fine.

[liyroot]

Specific to this thread, I disagree with the people who use the "corporation is always right" argument as a reason to disagree with a poster. Corporations do dumb things all the time. And corporations misrepresent the truth all the time. I think the "Amazon said it so it must be true" thing isn't legit - or it's cousin, the "so you're saying they committed a crime by misleading investors" nonsense argument.

Look at the Metaverse. Facebook spent 10 billion on it in 2021 and at the end of 2021 they were so convinced it was going well that they changed their name to Meta. There were lots of people expressing skepticism about that strategy, but I feel like some posters here would say, "Well they must know better than you, you're a random guy on the internet." Fast forward to today and another 13 billion has been lost and the Metaverse is dead.

So true. Also, everyone on MMOC is a business expert. Literally the same guys posting over and over how giant billion dollar businesses need/should to do X and Y for money. As if you have any idea lmao.

[Triceron]

I do have a serious problem with the "you're just a guy on the internet" argument because it's sophomoric - we're all just guys on the internet.

Like you can tell me you care about homeless people too, but sentiment doesn't really get far if all you have is thoughts and prayers. What I'm talking about is care to the point of making actual change, as in people in power reading these opinions and taking action.

No one who can actually make a difference gives a fuck about our opinions. It's nice that you care about his opinions, but as you said, we're all just guys on the internet, and that level of care is not being taken to heart beyond thoughts and prayers'.

And it's not to say that we shouldn't voice anything, I'm making a statement about the people at Amazon literally not caring about the feedback.

I'd say the guys at Paramount and Blur Studios did right by listening to the Sonic fans to get Ugly Sonic changed. But Amazon isn't either of them, and they don't seem to give a fuck about anything remotely critical about the series.

[Triceron]

I mean, overall on this forum if I want someone's opinion, I'll ask them, not another person. It's generally better to get your opinions firsthand than secondhand.

But that's kind of the point.

Ignorance isn't exactly the same as caring, is it? If you don't actually know the opinion being expressed, I wouldn't really consider it caring about it.

'Guy on the internet' is a matter of merely tolerating and accepting that everyone has opinions, not necessarily caring about them. Of course, we're probably getting into debate of semantics, so I'll leave it at that, since what I intended in my original message was about people in charge of the show caring about opinions, not just everyone in general. I will admit I worded poorly, and you caught a poorly worded response and had replied to it before I edited something more applicable and less broadly general.

[Syegfryed]

No one says you can't believe differently.

The point of bringing Amazon into the equation is because the show will go on despite what any of us want to believe. And that's more of a success than a series like Willow will ever get.

It will go on because they have a contract to go for 5 seasons, despite being dogshite. Like Halo is getting another season too, because the contract was for 2 seasons

And being more success than something like Willow, is not rly a good metric.

[Triceron]

Regarding Amazon - I think the series is a disaster, and I think it makes sense for Amazon to renew it for season 2. The reputational hit of cancelling the series right now would be huge for their Prime Video venture because this is definitely the most visible show on the service. So if I were them and my livelihood depended on it, I would be doing something similar to what they are doing right now - finding every way to spin things positively and changing the show around. They've stated in interviews that the first seasons required a lot of the ground to be laid and less lore, which I interpreted as a damage control statement.

Regardless of whether it is an actual success, or damage control, we both acknowledge that the show would go on regardless of the good or bad reactions that have been directed at it. It doesn't sound like they're interested in actually taking public feedback into consideration. If they don't give a fuck about the opinions, then our opinions obviously aren't really going to be changed. It's going to be more of the same content, while the reactions and opinions wouldn't really change much either.

And being more success than something like Willow, is not rly a good metric.

It beat out plenty of good shows as well in terms of ratings. Andor wouldn't come close to the numbers that RoP got.

[oplawlz]

So true. Also, everyone on MMOC is a business expert. Literally the same guys posting over and over how giant billion dollar businesses need/should to do X and Y for money. As if you have any idea lmao.

You don't have to be a chef to know when the kitchen is on fire.

[rhorle]

It will go on because they have a contract to go for 5 seasons, despite being dogshite. Like Halo is getting another season too, because the contract was for 2 seasons

Halo season 2 was approved by the studios before the first season even came out. It had nothing to do with being forced to create a second season. Amazon can create 5 seasons of their show but none of the contract leaks indicate they are forced to no matter what. That is a poor contract for both Amazon and the Tolkien estate.

[Corvus]

Oh dear, some guy wrote a fanfic 'sequel' to LotR, unauthorised of course, published it on Amazon - and now is suing Amazon and the Tolkien estate, claiming they plagiarised his 'copyrighted' work in RoP.

https://radaronline.com/p/jeff-bezos...amazon-series/

Someone is about to get wrecked.