Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[jonnysensible]

People who think the integrity of an established fantasy world ought to be respected: "Maybe the people being depicted ought to look like they're supposed to? You know, because doing otherwise doesn't really make any sense and kind of breaks the lore?"

People like you: "Stop being triggered by brown people!!!"

you must hate the lotr movies then?

[DarkAmbient]

you must hate the lotr movies then?

You might think that, if I'd ever said pointless changes to lore mean I'll automatically hate the adaptation. It's just my view that they shouldn't happen. Jackson made many alterations in his LotR films, but not enough for me to consider them to be bad films. Some consider Elves at Helm's Deep lore-breaking. It didn't make much practical sense, in that Lothlorien was well over a week's journey away, which means the decision to send them couldn't have happened after Saruman sent his army, which was much closer, but I consider that a timing/story error rather than a change in the rules of that universe. Did it ruin the film? Not for me.

Maybe dwarf women? They're supposed to be indistinguishable from the men, so yeah, Jackson got that wrong. Did it make the films bad? That's subjective, but I doubt anyone thinks it did. Will a Puerto Rican elf with a buzz cut make the Amazon show bad? No, not by itself. But the show will need to explain it for it to make sense.

[Scyth]

Tell me you are a racist without telling me you are racist.

Infracted.

[Flarelaine]

Fantasy doesn't mean you get to disregard internal logic, if you are familiar with Tolkiens works, which I can see that you are not, the history of middle earth was written as an alternative British history, as such it's set in northern Europe. If further draws inspiration from Scandinavian folk lore, and having a black elf in Scandinavian folk lore is about as racially sensitive as having a white witch doctor in a movie about the Zulu.

The Prose Edda speaks of Svartálfr, which are literally Black Elves.

[Shadowferal]

In Norse cosmology, svartálfar (O.N. "black elves", "swarthy elves", sing. svartálfr), also called myrkálfar ("dark elves", "dusky elves", "murky elves", sing. myrkálfr),[1][2] are beings who dwell in Svartalfheim (Svartálf[a]heimr, "home of the black-elves").[3] Both the svartálfar and Svartálfaheimr are primarily attested in the Prose Edda, written in the 13th century by Snorri Sturluson. Scholars have noted that the svartálfar appear to be synonymous with the dwarfs and potentially also the dökkálfar ("dark elves"). As dwarfs, the home of the svartálfar could possibly be another description for Niðavellir ("dark fields").

[DarkAmbient]

The Prose Edda speaks of Svartálfr, which are literally Black Elves.

Black as in pitch black, not the black we mean by black people today.

[Shadowferal]

Dökkálfar and Ljósálfar
In Norse mythology, Dökkálfar ("Dark Elves")[a] and Ljósálfar ("Light Elves")[b] are two contrasting types of elves; the dark elves dwell within the earth and have a dark complexion, while the light elves live in Álfheimr, and are "fairer than the sun to look at". The Ljósálfar and the Dökkálfar are attested in the Prose Edda, written in the 13th century by Snorri Sturluson, and in the late Old Norse poem Hrafnagaldr Óðins.

Ljósálfar live in Álfheimr, while the Dökkálfar dwell underground and look—and particularly behave—quite unlike the Ljósálfar. High describes the Ljósálfar as "fairer than the sun to look at", while the Dökkálfar are "blacker than pitch".

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I think if you stick to the myth it might raise a few eyebrows to say the least.

[Flarelaine]

So no, there’s no basis for a female commanding an army and leading the fight into battles in LotR. There were a few strong female characters like Galadriel, Melian, and Luthien, but they generally used magic.

You forget Haleth, who took up leadership of her tribe after the death of her father and brother. She held them together through a weeklong siege by orcs.

[Shadowferal]

‘Lord Of The Rings’ TV Series Inspired By Led Zeppelin, Peter Jackson & The Original ‘Hobbit’ Cartoon

“We have the rights solely to ‘The Fellowship of the Ring,’ ‘The Two Towers,’ ‘The Return of the King,’ the appendices, and ‘The Hobbit,’” Payne revealed. “And that is it. We do not have the rights to ‘The Silmarillion,’ ‘Unfinished Tales,’ ‘The History of Middle-Earth,’ or any of those other books.”

“There’s a version of everything we need for the Second Age in the books we have the rights to,” McKay added. “As long as we’re painting within those lines and not egregiously contradicting something we don’t have the rights to, there’s a lot of leeway and room to dramatize and tell some of the best stories that [Tolkien] ever came up with.”

So, for those wondering why the duo isn’t just pulling from “The Silmarillion,” that’s your answer. So, instead of looking at “Rings of Power” as a companion piece to “The Lord of the Rings” films from Peter Jackson, it’s more like the relationship between the “Hannibal” TV series and “The Silence of the Lambs” films. Same-same…but also different.

[Al Gorefiend]

Dwarf Queen should have a beard.

Or she just doesn't. Not everyone grows beards.

OT: Also the moment I watched the trailer for the first time and saw the black elf I out loud said "there goes the internet" painful to see I wasn't wrong.

[Flarelaine]

Sounds as bad as some that fetishize a certain undead ranger.

I'll stick with this;

One Ring is suprisingly good.

[DarkAmbient]

Tell me you are a racist without telling me you are racist.

There's no indication of racism in this thread and I'm pretty sure the mods would nuke it if there were. Maybe you're just taking an overly simplistic view of things.

[Shadowferal]

One Ring is suprisingly good.

Of the more popular artists, I admit it took me a while to warm up to Angus Mcbride. But his "Characters of Middle-earth" have made an impression.

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[Flarelaine]

Of the more popular artists, I admit it took me a while to warm up to Angus Mcbride. But his "Characters of Middle-earth" have made an impression.

Oh, Angus McBride is still the definitive artist when it comes to Middle-Earth. I just noted One Ring as a game is pretty good.

[Ara Myrr]

There's no indication of racism in this thread and I'm pretty sure the mods would nuke it if there were. Maybe you're just taking an overly simplistic view of things.

It's more culture than race tbh, though there's a thin line between the two with our multicultural society.

Having black actors portray characters that are very much rooted in northern European mythology... it'll piss people off, it's not 'their' culture.

Having white actors portray characters from African mythology would provoke the same response. I'm pretty sure everyone remembers the whole Gods of Egypt shitshow.

[Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang]

Dwarf Queen should have a beard.

Good pick. Dunno why but I'm unable to see the facial hair the blonde might have, but its probably me.

[Xath]

Tell me you are a racist without telling me you are racist.

Agree it's extremely racist to feel the need to add token characters to settings created as analogous to medieval Europe specifically the UK area rather than adapting stories that would naturally have largely minorities cast and very few if any white people.

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Ok, I don't know what you are on about because I did not answer based on movie and TVs. My perception is not only shaped by that and it's foolish for you to think that. Not only that, but it was a pure guess out of nowhere.

I can claim that they have less opportunities because directors, actors, producers and industry insiders have said so. The academy literally admitted it. Hollywood literary admitted it. And when they are cast, they are cast for minor roles. Lately things have been getting better, but in 2018, the year Black Panther release, take a look on how many movies had a African american protagonist.

I mean, did you forget the entire oscar debacle?

I will also not discuss this further as I said previously.

They are literally wrong though. For Hispanics yes there is a major dearth of opportunities. For black actors the awards and opportunities are actually higher than the population percentage would indicate in the current time period. I can name multiple black actors who are star level basically zero hispanic ones and outside kung-fu roles nearly zero Asian ones. There is absolutely racial profiling but there isn't a lack of roles for black Americans like there are for other minority groups

Infracted.

[AcidicSyn]

Wait, how is this trolling?

You literally were the one who came up with an example of a white man, living in Wakanda, who is somehow miraculously associated with Black Panther's character as a runner up to his title. And I literally point out that such a character exists in the comics already, which you probably weren't even aware of.

How is that trolling?

-edit- I see you updated a previous post, gonna address that here



It all exists within its own canon. It all exists within 'Rings of Power'. That's all that needs to be said.

No different than Shelob being a human woman in Shadows of Mordor 2. No different than Kili-Tauriel romance in the Hobbit. It's all non-canonical, and only relevant to its own self-contained medium. Take it or leave it.

And I'm being absolutely honest here when I say fans don't have to enjoy everything that comes out that is based on the thing they like. I'm a huge Marvel fan, I don't have to love everything Marvel or hold it to the 'source material'. I'm a huge Star Wars fan, I don't have to love the Sequel trilogy, High Republic or Book of Boba Fett. They can be made for the fans who like that particular story and setting. Not liking that particular adaptation doesn't make it any less 'Marvel' or 'Star Wars'. And simply not sticking to the source material doesn't automatically mean it's inauthentic either, considering we're talking about material that exists beyond canon.


Also, the dwarf lady does have facial hair, albeit hard to see. It seems she sports some mutton chops.

Holy crap I didn't notice those before! Kick ass! +2pts for the source material.

[Veggie50]

It's more culture than race tbh, though there's a thin line between the two with our multicultural society.

Having black actors portray characters that are very much rooted in northern European mythology... it'll piss people off, it's not 'their' culture.

Having white actors portray characters from African mythology would provoke the same response. I'm pretty sure everyone remembers the whole Gods of Egypt shitshow.

To be fair... Gods of Egypt did not need racial controversy to suuuuuuck.

[Soulwind]

I might be strawmanning this, but it's how I see these discussions:

A: We're including other races in the story because historically there's been a lack of diversity in movies and shows.
B: Alright, then work them into the story, introduce nations and factions whose background explains their appearance.
A: No, no, we are trying to show how people of all races are mixed in society, to represent the real world. <- Goalpost moved.
B: Alright, then you should feature actors from the middle and far east, south America, northern Europe...
A: No, no, we want to represent modern American society, and focus on American minorities. <- Goalpost moved again.
B: Alright, then you should feature native-americans, latinos...

And at that point I don't think I've ever seen a decent response. "They're too much of a minority" isn't a great argument when you're the one pushing for minorities to be represented in the first place.

The truth is simpler, certain minorities are trendy right now, and producers want to cash in to that.

That isn't necessarily wrong. It's greedy, creatively bankrupt, and slightly racist. But not ill-intended. Although it should be obvious to anyone when a movie or a show is sincere about their representation, and when they're just virtue signaling for money, and anyone not getting a paycheck shouldn't be parroting their excuses as if they believed them.

Infracted.