1. #9501
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    Yeah, now I'm done. Before I actually insult someone and get myself a ban.
    What are you actually mad about? You already made multiple replies after that and moved on.

    Guess you don't move on things you dislike after all. For someone who doesn't want to do a back and forth over having their hypocritical bullshit exposed, you're still responding quite a bit. And getting pretty heated.

    Yeah, prolly best to calm down before you resort to insults; that's not what a well-adjusted adult should do.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2023-05-07 at 03:58 AM.

  2. #9502
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post



    Again opinions dont matter. Only total numbers matter.


    That sure sounds like an opinion of yours…..
    Will gladly disregard then as not mattering.

  3. #9503
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hansworst View Post
    The AI thing is kind of annoying.
    Today on MMOC: spaghetti monk discovered chatgpt
    Why? AI at the present stage can range from hilariously funny to deeply concerning. Even if it's creative side is still derivative, it may even be more interesting than a untalented human creation.

    I find those post quite refreshing. Plus, it seems smarter than many shitposters here.
    /spit@Blizzard

  4. #9504
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    I find it fascinating that the AI is coming up with some similar themes to the showrunners - let's update this for 2023, so we need to make the female character more prominent, and change the nature of orcs as part of a storyline about modern day environmentalism. It's coming pretty close to what the showrunners actually did

    As someone who doesn't like these changes, here's how I interpret it - these showrunners are trying to improve on Tolkien, and they aren't on his level, so it sucks. And then there's of course my sentiment that these are all pretty complex topics and Tolkien's stories are much simpler, so if you want to do something modern, make your own show and stop trying to complicate the classics.
    I think it's all down to execution.

    Even with this chatGPT answer, it sounds fine on paper. And might actually work if the series was executed well. Execution is the biggest factor here.

    Just like if chatGPT said "Let's have a LOTR where Gimli is comical and Legolas is a Gary Stu" it'd sound like a terrible premise, and an insult to Tolkien's work. But that's pretty much what PJ's movies gave us, and it was fantastic because he executed it well. The performances were good, the onscreen chemistry was good, the script and writing was good, and it was very entertaining. It wasn't a weak point of the films, it became one of its strengths.

    There's a mountain of difference between stuff on paper and what ends up on the screen.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2023-05-07 at 10:12 AM.

  5. #9505
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    I find it fascinating that the AI is coming up with some similar themes to the showrunners, - let's update this for 2023, so we need to make the female character more prominent, and change the nature of orcs as part of a storyline about modern day environmentalism. It's coming pretty close to what the showrunners actually did
    I think that its more because the AI is actually searching for what you asked for, and the only material the machine could find about that was actually shit from the show, so they try to rationalize with what they got with it, with is tbf the base of the AI.

    As someone who doesn't like these changes, here's how I interpret it - these showrunners are trying to improve on Tolkien
    Nah, there is 3 theories: 1. They want to do their OWN shit, and jus use tolkien as ground so they can make their own legacy, so they can "it was our ideas, our story", same shit with wheel of time, 2. They were just genuinely bad, and though this was good enough, 3. they indeed rip off from that book that was already a lord of the rings rip off lol
    Last edited by Syegfryed; 2023-05-07 at 12:29 PM.

  6. #9506
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Nah, there is 3 theories: 1. They want to do their OWN shit, and jus use tolkien as ground so they can make their own legacy, so they can "it was our ideas, our story", same shit with wheel of time, 2. They were just genuinely bad, and though this was good enough, 3. they indeed rip off from that book that was already a lord of the rings rip off lol
    From all the interviews with the writers, actors, and show runners, it's definitely the first two to some degree (depends on the individual), but it really is they think they can improve the source material or think Tolkien needs to be improved upon (or 'fixed for a modern audience with modern sensibilities'). It's not a hypothesis, they've outright stated it in some cases.

    It's really not that uncommon with showrunners and writers in Hollywood and similar places, as many do think they are above not only their audience but also the material they may be adapting. Often boils down to hubris as many of these people lead insulated lives with no world experience outside of their own bubbles, which leads to extreme narrow-mindedness and being supremely out of touch with reality. All one needs to do is watch an awards show for these types of people to see, as they're proud of how elite and exclusive they perceive themselves to be.

    When it comes down to it, this series should've been an extreeeemely easy win. The only explanation that makes sense is hubris and incompetence... unless they're going the cultist route and destroying everything for the sake of their beliefs. Could be all of the above, there's a bunch of weird and twisted cults with these people.
    “Society is endangered not by the great profligacy of a few, but by the laxity of morals amongst all.”
    “It's not an endlessly expanding list of rights — the 'right' to education, the 'right' to health care, the 'right' to food and housing. That's not freedom, that's dependency. Those aren't rights, those are the rations of slavery — hay and a barn for human cattle.”
    ― Alexis de Tocqueville

  7. #9507
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    Quote Originally Posted by exochaft View Post
    Often boils down to hubris as many of these people lead insulated lives with no world experience outside of their own bubbles, which leads to extreme narrow-mindedness and being supremely out of touch with reality. All one needs to do is watch an awards show for these types of people to see, as they're proud of how elite and exclusive they perceive themselves to be.
    Is your dislike of the show that strong that you need to insult an entire profession just because they do things you don't personally like? You are living in a far bigger bubble then those you accuse. The thing with art is that you either like it or you don't. The Tolkien Estate didn't like the Jackson interpretation of Tolkien but they seem to like the Rings of Power version. They have a seat at the table and some measure of input on the creative direction.

    To you Amazon, and their crew, is destroying Tolkien out of hubris and incompetence. To the heirs of Tolkien Peter Jackson did that. Even Tolkien himself, in letters, stated he was fine with adaptations changing things as long as they kept the spirit of the work. So is it really the creatives that are the problem or the supposed fans that get mega-levels of insulted when something isn't done exactly how they think it should be done?
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  8. #9508
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    I don’t necessarily agree that it’s an easy win because the source material is thinly developed, basically a broad sketch, and needs filling in. Also there’s the problem of the rights - they are missing important pieces because their rights are incomplete, leading to the nonsensical “you can’t use real lore, but you can make stuff up” approach.
    Which loops back to my original gripe with this show before it even became a thing and I was in this threads discussions 400 pages ago. If they can't tell a proper LotR story, but still have all this talent behind the show as it was very pretty looking, why didn't they just not piss everyone off and create their own fantasy story?

    And I ask that question rhetorically because we all know the answer: brand recognition, marketing and sales. Which leaves the taste in my mouth this whole thing was more of the same corporate moneygrubbing. Which always attracts counterarguments like "of course they want money, entertainment is a business" which begs the question, where is the line drawn? Are we as audience doomed to forever relive the same IPs over and over again, because nobody wants to come up with new things when the goal is to just make money off what we already have? Has every fantasy IP we will ever see already been made? When will they start targeting videogame fantasy IPs like Elder Scrolls, Warcraft, Warhammer and just do their own things with the lore?

    I haven't seen the D&D movie, but coincidentally as its in cinemas right now, is also proving my point. Though I have heard it was very good and more a celebration of D&D so nobody think I'm dissing it please.
    Last edited by Al Gorefiend; 2023-05-08 at 10:45 PM.

  9. #9509
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    I don’t necessarily agree that it’s an easy win because the source material is thinly developed, basically a broad sketch, and needs filling in. Also there’s the problem of the rights - they are missing important pieces because their rights are incomplete, leading to the nonsensical “you can’t use real lore, but you can make stuff up” approach.
    Thats why they should have attempt a self contained story, that have no relation whatsoever with the actual story they are talking about.

    Which is basically what they try to do, but they shove the second age and distort the canon events.

    If they made a self-contained story about some elves overseeing a group of humans, that were going to be attacked by goblins, because a kid found a magic dark sword in old castle left by morgoth followers, and save then, it would be a better story.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Al Gorefiend View Post
    Are we as audience doomed to forever relive the same IPs over and over again, because nobody wants to come up with new things when the goal is to just make money off what we already have? Has every fantasy IP we will ever see already been made? When will they start targeting videogame fantasy IPs like Elder Scrolls, Warcraft, Warhammer and just do their own things with the lore?

    I haven't seen the D&D movie, but coincidentally as its in cinemas right now, is also proving my point. Though I have heard it was very good and more a celebration of D&D so nobody think I'm dissing it please.
    For your first question, yes. We are forever doomed to rehash things that work(and most of time, ruin then), because they don't want to risk new stuff, because when they do, they rather do their own shit instead of actually adapting then, they fail, and they don't touch the ip again.

    For the Second, i dunno, i don't think they did everything, there is a lot of good ips, books and fantasies out there for then to adapt or ruin. Not many have the same power as lord of the rings and harry potter.


    For the third, they are already targeting video games, and doing their own thing. they did with warcraft, fucking all to do with the real story, they did with halo, they kinda did with the witcher, Last of Us, resident evil remakes.

    D&D is one of the few movies that work, because they had the same intent, make a self-contained story in the universe, a good, simple and enjoyable story, they use elements of the Forgotten realms, they even use some established characters, like the fat red dragon, they use the places there, but its a new story, they were able to do their own thing, without shitting in the establish lore, something people can't do to save their lives

  10. #9510
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Thats why they should have attempt a self contained story, that have no relation whatsoever with the actual story they are talking about.

    Which is basically what they try to do, but they shove the second age and distort the canon events.

    If they made a self-contained story about some elves overseeing a group of humans, that were going to be attacked by goblins, because a kid found a magic dark sword in old castle left by morgoth followers, and save then, it would be a better story.

    - - - Updated - - -



    For your first question, yes. We are forever doomed to rehash things that work(and most of time, ruin then), because they don't want to risk new stuff, because when they do, they rather do their own shit instead of actually adapting then, they fail, and they don't touch the ip again.

    For the Second, i dunno, i don't think they did everything, there is a lot of good ips, books and fantasies out there for then to adapt or ruin. Not many have the same power as lord of the rings and harry potter.


    For the third, they are already targeting video games, and doing their own thing. they did with warcraft, fucking all to do with the real story, they did with halo, they kinda did with the witcher, Last of Us, resident evil remakes.

    D&D is one of the few movies that work, because they had the same intent, make a self-contained story in the universe, a good, simple and enjoyable story, they use elements of the Forgotten realms, they even use some established characters, like the fat red dragon, they use the places there, but its a new story, they were able to do their own thing, without shitting in the establish lore, something people can't do to save their lives
    You hit it on the head with that last paragraph. Like you said it was just a silly story about a group of people existing within a fictional world. They didn't try to tell epic stories about the history of the world like Rings of Power & Warcraft. People already knew the lore and backstory to these, so they were able to conceptualize a headcanon and set their expectations of the show based on how cool they made it sound in their head. This leaves those movies highly vulnerable to scrutiny and nitpicking because the bar is set to the absolute max when you're creating a world for diehard fans of a fantasy, most times the diehards know the lore BETTER than the writers, so when its wrong its instantly terrible.

    With the D&D movie its just a band of people who aren't making history or lore of events. Had the Warcraft movie been about a group of 5 people going through an epic quest chain, complete with game references, comedy and cameos of famous NPCs, people would have LOVED. IT. Instead they choose a story all the fans knew about and read, fantastically told it incorrectly or changed things around, and somehow made it a joyless, unsatisfying movie. I haven't watched it since it first came out in theaters, I just remember it being not colorful, dark, no memorable action scenes and melancholy in a boring way.

  11. #9511
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Gorefiend View Post
    You hit it on the head with that last paragraph. Like you said it was just a silly story about a group of people existing within a fictional world. They didn't try to tell epic stories about the history of the world like Rings of Power & Warcraft. People already knew the lore and backstory to these, so they were able to conceptualize a headcanon and set their expectations of the show based on how cool they made it sound in their head. This leaves those movies highly vulnerable to scrutiny and nitpicking because the bar is set to the absolute max when you're creating a world for diehard fans of a fantasy, most times the diehards know the lore BETTER than the writers, so when its wrong its instantly terrible.
    The gold thing is that, you didn't even need to knew anything from the forgotten realms, or from dnd in deep to know understand and enjoy the movie. They could use names like Neverwinter, that, will mean nothing for you, but you understand is a important place, and you being one Lord is a big deal, if you do know then though, that is even more exicting to catch the the references

    With the D&D movie its just a band of people who aren't making history or lore of events. Had the Warcraft movie been about a group of 5 people going through an epic quest chain, complete with game references, comedy and cameos of famous NPCs, people would have LOVED. IT. Instead they choose a story all the fans knew about and read, fantastically told it incorrectly or changed things around, and somehow made it a joyless, unsatisfying movie. I haven't watched it since it first came out in theaters, I just remember it being not colorful, dark, no memorable action scenes and melancholy in a boring way.
    I think the warcraft movie could also have worked, if they actually tried to adapt the story of the first war, in a 3 hour movie, not ina 1hour movie.

    That would work much better in a tv-show, that blizzard is sleeping on it, a faithful story of that time would make as much buzz as house of the dragon imo, if they make grit and dark.

  12. #9512
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    I'm also bothered by how these showrunners have no sense of the story. My specific example is Mount Doom - they should be playing up the connection between Sauron and Mount Doom in this series. The story in the lore was basically "original dark lord created mount doom using his bigbad powers, it becomes heart of Sauron's power cause he forges ring there". Sauron is never actually present in any scenes in Lord of the Rings, and Mount Doom occasionally serves as a kind of stand in - the volcano rumbling as a symbol of his power. There's a scene where Sam is having trouble sleeping and Mount Doom rumbles, the chapter ending with "Mount Doom also slept uneasily". It's special, it's almost a character in itself - it's the only place the ring can be destroyed, it explodes massively when the ring is dropped in it, Sam mentions that the ring gets a lot heavier when he is in sight of Mount Doom, he uses it to send out darkness when his armies invade, etc.

    Instead they went with "let's make up a sciency explanation for why Mount Doom exists" and Sauron isn't involved in its creation. It was, "orcs can't handle sunlight, so they blotted out the sun by diverting water into Mount Doom so it explodes constantly". Ridiculous. "Mount Doom is created by science" is a less effective story and weakens the main plotline by diverging from it and minimizing Sauron's role. It's really scary that the showrunners can't see that.
    i'm gonna have to disagree with you on this point:

    the fact they wrote it the way they did and portrayed it the way they did shows just how little they know about the lore and how little the understand the nuances of the lore, it actually epitomises their approach and shows how limited they are in both scope and talent to write a comprehensive piece to explain this portion of the lore.


    the showrunners being unable to see through their own bullshit is cemented with this point, it's basically confirmation, (on top of the already long list of other points that also confirm), that these clowns have no clue what the source materials says and have no clue how to interpret that source material properly.

  13. #9513
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    Yeah it may be based on knowledge gotten from users, but the AI doesn't know much about the show because it doesn't know anything after 2021.
    A shame, would be interesting to know what it thinks of RoP in general and what it would do to improve the show and make it Emmy worthy.

  14. #9514
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    i'm gonna have to disagree with you on this point:

    the fact they wrote it the way they did and portrayed it the way they did shows just how little they know about the lore and how little the understand the nuances of the lore, it actually epitomises their approach and shows how limited they are in both scope and talent to write a comprehensive piece to explain this portion of the lore.


    the showrunners being unable to see through their own bullshit is cemented with this point, it's basically confirmation, (on top of the already long list of other points that also confirm), that these clowns have no clue what the source materials says and have no clue how to interpret that source material properly.
    They also don't know shit about anything else.

    The storyline makes no sense whatsoever.

    The key that open the "gates" for the water is a dark sword made my morgoth....But the elves build that dam, why the elves build a dam that the key was the sword of the enemy?

    Cause, clearly, the damn WAS NOT designed to erupt mordor, because the orcs need to build the trenches so the water could flow there, so why the dark sword a thing?

    Fucking convoluted awful plot that does not make sense. Besides, by the region, the water would NEVER reach Mount Doom, first it was too far away and upwards, second, the volcano was not pressured, it would not erupt by pouring some water, AND the pyroclastic explosion only selective kill people, cause most of then were just fine How the fuck do you write that a pyroclastic explosion destroy AND burn houses, trees, horses, doesn't affect humans? these guys are crayon eaters, and you have to hear people saying this isn't bad, Holy hell.

  15. #9515
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    The key that open the "gates" for the water is a dark sword made my morgoth....But the elves build that dam, why the elves build a dam that the key was the sword of the enemy?
    The Elves didn't build it.
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  16. #9516
    LOL that is sooooo fucking bad looking.



    Points 1-8 are whatever, could be great could be trash have to see what they do.

    Point 9 is where it starts to go off rails, there were only 3 themes, so a forth interuption? what? Also Eru chastises him right there.

    Point 10 Gandalfs Maiar name was Olorin, not mithrandir (his Elvish name)

    Point 11, lol fuck no, IF you wanted to have someone tempted by Sauron in his agenda, do Saruman, this would at least tie in to his temptation/fall later and lay the groundwork for it.

    Point 12 whatever.

    Point 13, these are the same people that say Sauron lying about being an envoy of the Maia was too stupid, but having Sauron say he apprencticed under Aule so he could make the dwarven rings? Fuck off, not to mention they already fucked the creation of the rings since the Elven rings (now created first) were the last rings made.

    Point 14 So Sauron has a kid now? FUCKING LOL fanfic trash

    Point 15 I know quite a few Tolkien nerds, no one was begging for an origin story for Shadowfax, or the history of the Rohirrim horses. I mean I guess I could be sold on this but you already have so much to cover, and IF they have the rights to The Silmarillion you even have more things you can cover, why waste the time/money on this.

    Point 16 Confirms the joke that Gandalf is meteor man LOLOLOLOLOL

    Point 17 Another thing I don't hate conceptually, but you have to really do right to pull off and I don't have faith.

    Point 18/19 If they are even trying to fucking make Bombadil a "reformed" Melkor then they truly should never be allowed to adapt anything ever again, because they will have proven they are incompetent fuck wits.

    Point 20 Again a bit late on that with the Elven rings made (and presumably the dwarven rings get made when Sauron goes there).


    Over all just continues to confirm Amazon is pretty shit at adaptations, and that while Rafe of Time is a contender, this show is the crown jewel of utter shit.
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  17. #9517
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    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    Point 14 So Sauron has a kid now? FUCKING LOL fanfic trash
    To be fair Tolkien did essentially state (In the Osanwe-kenta and with Melian) that Ainur could conceive and be bound to a form. It would be a small change to have Sauron bound to Halbrand's form because of having a child rather then having the fluid powers of shape shifting. Just like the wizards for example became incarnate for their missions.

    It is interesting though how desperate some of you are to hate that you are taking rumors as confirmed information just so you can continue to hate.
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  18. #9518
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    is there a 2nd season coming? Didn't Amazon fire a ton of people?

  19. #9519
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    is there a 2nd season coming? Didn't Amazon fire a ton of people?
    Season 2 started production around October 2022. https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv...ng-1235231978/

    The most recent layoffs for Prime Studios had the bulk come from Twitch. It really isn't anything out of the ordinary and not something that would send red flags about Rings of Power. A lot of tech-related companies have reduced their workforce as well. https://www.reuters.com/technology/a...on-2024-01-10/
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