Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[Adamas102]

Clearly this was not the case, since he came back to create more

Because... he didn't succeed the first time... Seriously? Is it really that hard for you to grasp?

He wanted to make one ring, but was found out and rejected by Galadriel before the task was complete (and the power was split between three). Now he returns with a revised plan. Yeah, Tolkien never wrote an intricate Keyser Soze level plan either. His plan failed there as well and he had to go all the way back to Eregion to get the rings back so that he could redistribute them.

"the ring is made to corrupt the user, but instead of making one, to corrupt one person, lets make THREE, for three users, that definitely not corrupt three persons and will fuck up his plan"

Yes, because the power is split in order to balance them between the three trusted to keep the rings. So you really preferred Celebrimbor just randomly making three to prove to himself that he's hot shit and getting lucky that they just happened to warn him of Sauron's One Ring? Wow, what a compelling narrative... Again, we just go back to you being salty that it isn't exactly how Tolkien wrote it even though he didn't actually make a proper narrative for it.

What a diahrea of plot is that that you are defending mate. They already know the creation of the ring was the idea of the dark lord, why in the ass would you make more if you already have the three? the plot doesn't make sense, at all.

The elves were already trying to make a powerful artifact that would stave off their decline. Sauron didn't initiate the project, and now that they think he's gone there's not reason why they shouldn't continue making similarly powerful artifacts. Where is this idea coming from that the elves should just stop all their works that were started before Sauron even came into the picture? You're just projecting what you already know of the events that follow onto what characters should be doing with the limited knowledge they have.

I purposely pick that scene and made it absurd so you could see the difference, yet it flew over your heard with your lack of imagination.

the part of him conjuring an eagle out of his ass, was exactly to show the changes in the show are like that.

Ah, so another garbage "argument" from you that has nothing to do with the show because you'd rather pull inane scenarios out of your ass than actually address the topic at hand. Bravo.

[bledgor]

Tolkien wrote, what, 2 sentences concerning Annatar's role in the appendices and in the Silmarillion two paragraphs? Tolkien made a bare bones outline of this entire period that the show covers so stop acting like there is a brilliantly written narrative that is being ignored. These arguments have EVERYTHING to do with how you envision it because there's very little substance to what Tolkien actually wrote. So much of the legendarium for the 2nd Age is just lists or brief synopses of events. It's not a sacred text that can stand on its own and there is plenty of room to adapt and flesh out, which includes making drastic changes to better fit a different medium. This idea that the show has "barely anything in common with its source" is just ridiculous.

And yet somehow with JUST BARE BONES as you say they manage to ignore just about every single thing he wrote. Galadriel is literally nothing like her book counterpart, the making of the rings is different, half the cast was new characters, they included a wizard (TOTALLY NOT GANDALF GUYS) and Hobbits (sorry Harfoots wink wink) in a time where it was expressively said they didn't do anything/weren't there. Not to mention they took several thousand years of history and squished it (not to mention taking things like the waking of Durins Bane and moving it from almost 2000 years into the third age and into the second age).

What did they get right from the bare bones as you so put it (also try actually reading the Silmarillon before you say ignorant things like that)? The names of people and places? That is about it.

[Syegfryed]

Because... he didn't succeed the first time... Seriously? Is it really that hard for you to grasp?

What is hard for you to graps that his plan was never to make only one ring?

He wanted to make one ring, but was found out and rejected by Galadriel before the task was complete

Can we also point how this semi-love affair and rejection is stupid, or you wanna cope its fine since the end result is the same?

Yeah, Tolkien never wrote

Its amazing how you try to tempt 'Tolkien enver did this or that", to explain away shit from the show, that ignore and change actually stuff he wrote.

Yes, because the power is split in order to balance them between the three trusted to keep the rings.

bullshit.

So you really preferred Celebrimbor just randomly making three to prove to himself that he's hot shit and getting lucky that they just happened to warn him of Sauron's One Ring? Wow, what a compelling narrative...

You are defending the show, you don't get shit to talk about compelling narrative

And yes, i would prefer that, is what Tolkien wrote, a more compelling narrator

Again, we just go back to you being salty that it isn't exactly how Tolkien wrote

We are making fun of it because its wrirtten badly and dumb, you are in your own echo chamber with that strawman.

The elves were already trying to make a powerful artifact that would stave off their decline. Sauron didn't initiate the project, and now that they think he's gone there's not reason why they shouldn't continue making similarly powerful artifacts.

bullshit, they already made the artifacts, three at that, there is not a single reason to make more.

Second, there is no more materials, third, why would you even trust that to a random elf, after what happened first when yout rust someone who was disguised as Sauron? NOT A LITTLE SUSPCIOUS???!?

Ah, so another garbage "argument" from you that has nothing to do with the show because you'd rather pull inane scenarios out of your ass than actually address the topic at hand. Bravo.

that is exactly the topic at hand dear, the rings of power show is pulling insane scenarios out of their ass, and you are clapping like a seal because "the result is the same"


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And yet somehow with JUST BARE BONES as you say they manage to ignore just about every single thing he wrote

Its unbelievable.

Dude is basically arguing tolkien does not have compelling narrative and the show is doing a better job changing stuff he wrote.

[Adamas102]

And yet somehow with JUST BARE BONES as you say they manage to ignore just about every single thing he wrote. Galadriel is literally nothing like her book counterpart, the making of the rings is different, half the cast was new characters, they included a wizard (TOTALLY NOT GANDALF GUYS) and Hobbits (sorry Harfoots wink wink) in a time where it was expressively said they didn't do anything/weren't there. Not to mention they took several thousand years of history and squished it (not to mention taking things like the waking of Durins Bane and moving it from almost 2000 years into the third age and into the second age).

What did they get right from the bare bones as you so put it (also try actually reading the Silmarillon before you say ignorant things like that)? The names of people and places? That is about it.

All the things you mention are in the books, you're just quibbling over timeline. Wizard that goes East? Yep. Maybe Gandalf, maybe not, but even if it is him if there's no plan to cover when he actually arrives later in the timeline then this is when he arrives in the show timeline. Harfoots exist in the written material, now they are present in this point in time (and haven't even affected the primary Rings narrative anyway). The rings are being made in a slightly different order, but most of the main plot points are present (Annatar seems to have a hand in the crafting the 16, three are made separately, the 16 are eventually distributed amongst dwarves and men). Durin's Bane exists and has at least some part in the downfall of Kazad-dum which presumably will be presented in the show, but we don't know to what extent. You mentioned Celeborn's absence a page or so ago, and while he doesn't NEED to be part of the narrative right now the way they mentioned him suggests that he will eventually be part of it.

So yes, all of these points that are being covered in the show come from the books, just not spread out over the hundreds, or even thousands of years because that doesn't lend itself well to the screen. And yeah, I literally pulled up the Silmarillion again just to see how little writing is actually dedicated to things like the crafting of the rings and the downfall of Numenor (it's not a lot). Remember though, if the show only really had access to the appendices (which I also have here) then it's A LOT less to work with. Yes, these are glorified outlines with disjointed narratives told in a fashion similar to a grade school history book jumping from one event to another with barely any dialogue that would actually bring these characters to life. Thinking of them on the same level as LotR or The Hobbit is just ridiculous.

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And yes, i would prefer that, is what Tolkien wrote, a more compelling narrator

I should really stop engaging because as always you prove that you can barely even string together a coherent thought, resorting to little more than "oh yeah, this was dumb, too". But hey, at least you outed your lie from before about this not having to do with "because it's not what Tolkien wrote". You keep thinking that this has anything to do with "defending the show" but all I'm actually doing is just pointing out how fucking stupid your "criticisms" are. The show may well be shit, you apparently just lack the ability to explain your position. This pretty much goes for almost every single movie/show thread you seem to pop up in so I guess I'm not really surprised by your gift for shit posting.

The narrative being presented in the show is pretty fucking clear and isn't that different from what's written. It's pretty simple. I've laid it out multiple times now. If you can't wrap your head around that then that's squarely on you. I'm really starting to realize that when you say "it's dumb" what you really mean is "I don't really understand this".

[Asrialol]

Tldr, people in this thread thinks they are better writers. Makes me giggle.

[Syegfryed]

I should really stop engaging because

Because you have no idea what you are talking about and the only thing you are doing is coping defending the show dumb decisions.

but all I'm actually doing is just pointing out how fucking stupid your "criticisms" are.

You are trying, but you are just showing how fucking stupid your "points" are, to a a degree that you said what Tolkien wrote was less compelling that was made in the show, believable.

The show may well be shit, you apparently just lack the ability to explain your position.

Ah yes, the classic "well the show is shit, but NOT BECAUSE THE REASONS YOU SAID", besides, the reasons i said are the ones everyone and their mothers are using to criticise the dumb changing from the original source, because is common sense.

Hum, when did i saw this desperate defense before? It was with another show show was canceled, layer maybe? hum...

This pretty much goes for almost every single movie/show thread you seem to pop up in so I guess I'm not really surprised by your gift for shit posting.

I mean, if every single movie/show thread there is dumb and band changes, count me in, but i was in the house of the dragon thread praising it, so you are just lying to make your point look good, classic fallacy when you have no defense other than attack me or what i said, because the show is bad and you can't defend it by itself by their own merits.

The narrative being presented in the show is pretty fucking clear and isn't that different from what's written.

The narrative is fucking different, the three elven rings are created the last for specific reasons and the events happen totally different, saying there isn't difference from what was written before, just because the end result is the same is obnoxious.

Is even dumber, when what was changed before the end result was godamn awful

[rhorle]

It has nothing to do with how we "envisioned it" and everything to do with how Tolkein WROTE IT.

If that was truly the case then the same people bashing Rings of Power wouldn't also be praising the Peter Jackson Lord of the Rings trilogy. Peter Jackson made changes anywhere he felt like and did not follow exactly how Tolkien wrote it. But don't let reason stop what has been irrational hate and will continue to be.

[Askyl]

Imagine being so utterly ignorant of a source material something is based on then trying to yell at people who point out an "adaptation" has barely anything in common with its source.

It has nothing to do with how we "envisioned it" and everything to do with how Tolkein WROTE IT.

It seems like you don't know how Tolkien wrote it, that's the thing. Almost everything in this show honors Tolkien in many ways. They take quite large liberties where there is something unwritten, but when it comes to canon work so far everything is up to par. It's pretty much not exactly what Tolkien had in mind, but matching the source material (that they have rights to and actually is the only canon work for 2nd age) it still fits.

People like you that actually have't read Tolkien (other than maybe Hobbit) seem to think the 2nd age is a large massive written story with details all over the place. Silmarillion have 1 chapter about Numenor and a few pages about the 2nd age.

If you'd like to know why there isn't much about the 2nd age; that's because Tolkien made up the 2nd age while writing Lord of the rings. Silmarillion was written before Lord of the Rings.

Everything else outside of Lotr, Hobbit, Silmarillion is none canon work that was compiled into stuff like History of Middle Earth. Which still was mostly focused on world building and 1st age.

A perfect example for this is Galadriel. One of the most important and oldest elves. She was made up while he was writing Lord of the Rings and that's why there's so little about her in the 1st and 2nd age even if she was one of the greater elves, from the golden house of Finarfin and one of the ring bearers. She was made up late, and he didn't have time to finish her backstory.

And how ever you like it or not, RoP nails the little description we get from Tolkien about her.

[Biomega]

Almost everything in this show honors Tolkien in many ways.

It's true. When they waxed on poetic about sinky stones and floaty boats, tears were streaming down my face.

I assume because I was so moved by the incredibly Tolkien-esque writing. I could be mistaken.

[Syegfryed]

It seems like you don't know how Tolkien wrote it, that's the thing. Almost everything in this show honors Tolkien in many ways. They take quite large liberties where there is something unwritten, but when it comes to canon work so far everything is up to par.

HAHAHAHA, wait are you serious?

no it can be serious, you are joking with us. They literally change canon left and right. Like there was no human halbrand that teach Celebrimbor stuff, Guyladriel doesn't go to middle earth for revenge against Sauron. Pretty sure it wasn't sauron who kill her brother but a werewolf, mithrill isn't a magic stone that was made by the fight of a balrog and someone else with the light of the silmaril, together with many other nonsenses, you can't possible say it ''honors" him, especially with the numenor allegory to immigrants, that was not something tolkien wrote.

It's pretty much not exactly what Tolkien had in mind, but matching the source material (that they have rights to and actually is the only canon work for 2nd age) it still fits.

It doesn't fit.

[Rennadrel]

No, I just don't whine like a fucking baby about things that don't really matter that much. And that's really what this all boils down to. Petulant children that think something is total shit just because they didn't get their way.

Like, seriously? The wigs? One actor being a bit older than the others? Relatively minor changes to the series of events? Just keep adding on to the list of "things that don't really determine whether a show is good or not".

Yes, I DENY that this adaptation shit! As with all shows/movies there is plenty to criticize but overall it's perfectly fine. Even if I don't agree with all the changes they made I understand why they made them, and for the most part nothing is so egregious (yet) as to break the framework that they're working with.

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You obviously don't because the stuff you're complaining about is perfectly reasonable stuff for an adaptation (things like changing time lines, having actors that don't fit character descriptions to a T, etc), but you're saying that BECAUSE it is different from the source material it is therefore shit.

There is nothing "perfectly fine" about making an abortion out of the greatest pieces of literature since fucking Shakespeare. Amazon not getting the rights to material beyond the Appendices shows just how hamstrung they are in the quality of the writing of the show. That's ignoring the other areas where they've proverbially fucked the dog artistically, like their fake ass armour. They try to tell a story that has far too many inconsistencies and a serious lack of tone to ever be a story worthy of Tolkien's universe.

[Askyl]

HAHAHAHA, wait are you serious?

no it can be serious, you are joking with us. They literally change canon left and right. Like there was no human halbrand that teach Celebrimbor stuff, Guyladriel doesn't go to middle earth for revenge against Sauron. Pretty sure it wasn't sauron who kill her brother but a werewolf, mithrill isn't a magic stone that was made by the fight of a balrog and someone else with the light of the silmaril, together with many other nonsenses, you can't possible say it ''honors" him, especially with the numenor allegory to immigrants, that was not something tolkien wrote.

Sorry, but someone calling Galadriel for Guyladriel already proved their opinion is completely based on Ragebait. You're really making Tolkien proud.

1. Halbrand is actually based on part of Tolkiens literatture and works within Canon.
2. Galadriel did hunt for Sauron and was part of the war against him. They don't have Silmarillion rights, so they could only show a very brief version of 1st age as prologe. Galadriel was already in Middle Earth as well when Finrod died (both in show and in lore), so you're literally making up stuff your self to hate now.
3. A werewolf did. Saurons werewolf, which is why he also have large claw marks on his body. No where in the show it said Sauron killed him, only that he died because of Sauron.
4. They even told you in the show that it was a "fairy tale". We'll see where they go but it's most likely a plot put in the mind of Gil-Galad from Saurons manipulation. He wants to believe it even if he knows it's not true. They needed something to speed it up since they had to compress the timeline.

It's stuff they've added between the pages to fill out, but nothing that actually changes the actual lore. If you want to stop being passive-agressive and hateful I'm more than happy to discuss whatever issues you have with the show and set most of it straight. Since it's obvious all your facts come from youtubers that just gain profit from ragebait videos and most of it is completely wrong.

If you want to feel a little bit happy, I'll agree that Tolkien would not have been fond of this adaptation. Just like he would have hated the movies. Because they're both made to entertain, and that's not the purpose of Lord of the rings at all.

[Syegfryed]

Sorry, but someone calling Galadriel for Guyladriel already proved their opinion is completely based on Ragebait. You're really making Tolkien proud.

If you can't take the gag about how the real Galadriel have nothing to do with the one in the show thats on you.

1. Halbrand is actually based on part of Tolkiens literatture and works within Canon.

No, it doesn't.

2. Galadriel did hunt for Sauron and was part of the war against him They don't have Silmarillion rights, so they could only show a very brief version of 1st age as prologe. Galadriel was already in Middle Earth as well when Finrod died (both in show and in lore), so you're literally making up stuff your self to hate now.

I don't need to make stuff, the show does itself. Galadriel did not went to middle earth to hunt for Sauron, she went to have a kingdom of her own, Sauron doesn't kill her brother.

3. A werewolf did. Saurons werewolf, which is why he also have large claw marks on his body. No where in the show it said Sauron killed him, only that he died because of Sauron.

the show said multiple times Sauron killed him.

4. They even told you in the show that it was a "fairy tale". We'll see where they go but it's most likely a plot put in the mind of Gil-Galad from Saurons manipulation. He wants to believe it even if he knows it's not true. They needed something to speed it up since they had to compress the timeline.

You literally see the piece of mithrill cleasing the corruption of the leaf, this entire shit is made up and not by tolkien my guy

You just are intoxicated by copium

If you want to feel a little bit happy, I'll agree that Tolkien would not have been fond of this adaptation. Just like he would have hated the movies. Because they're both made to entertain, and that's not the purpose of Lord of the rings at all.

The classic "the movie changed stuff, so its fine if the show does" or "tolkien would not like the show, but he would also not like the movies!!"

Im gonna be sketpical and say while he would not be found of the movies, he would despise the show and what they did with his work.

[Askyl]

If you can't take the gag about how the real Galadriel have nothing to do with the one in the show thats on you.


No, it doesn't.


I don't need to make stuff, the show does itself. Galadriel did not went to middle earth to hunt for Sauron, she went to have a kingdom of her own, Sauron doesn't kill her brother.



the show said multiple times Sauron killed him.



You literally see the piece of mithrill cleasing the corruption of the leaf, this entire shit is made up and not by tolkien my guy

You just are intoxicated by copium



The classic "the movie changed stuff, so its fine if the show does" or "tolkien would not like the show, but he would also not like the movies!!"

Im gonna be sketpical and say while he would not be found of the movies, he would despise the show and what they did with his work.

Well, first of all. Thank you for proving to me you don't know Tolkien. These answers were simply amazing to read. I can still try to be friendly and answer any questions you have, but you need to chill out a bit.

1. Halbrand as a character is made up for the show, but Halbrand and his purpose for the story is not. They made it quite brilliantly and also shows how they get some rights from bits and pieces as they've said, not just straight up trilogy, appendices, hobbit. And no, Halbrand isn't a replacement for Annatar. He's covering different part of Saurons manipulation and corruption of the elves.

2. "Galadriel did not went to middle earth to hunt for Sauron, she went to have a kingdom of her own, Sauron doesn't kill her brother."

No, as I said no one ever said she did, either in the show or not. She did however want to hunt down Sauron and get rid of all evil, like in the show. They made it the main narrative even if it was only one of many for her, notning wrong with that.

She was already in Middle Earth. She followed the elven army in 1st age when they slaughtered the Teleri for the boats to get back the Silmarils.

She wanted her own kingdom, but that came later after settling into middle earth.

3. She focus on Sauron because Sauron is the main cause of Finrods death, she never said that Sauron killed him only that Sauron was the cause of his death. During the scene where you see Finrods body, it's obvious (for fans of Tolkien that knows his fate) he has been killed by werewolves. They literally have said in interviews they made sure to have claw marks etc on him because he was killed by werewolfs. That you see something else is only in your mind.

4. "You literally see the piece of mithrill cleasing the corruption of the leaf, this entire shit is made up and not by tolkien my guy"

As said, they'll most likely explore this in the next season. I'd be surprised if this wasn't a plot from Sauron using either black magic or (hopefully) some kind of magic or corruption from Shelob. They needed to accelerate the threat of elves fading, this is how he did it. Wouldn't really be lore breaking, even if it's not compeltely lore accurate.

You're AGAIN welcome to ask any questions you have if you'd like to if you actually want to learn more about Tolkeins world without having to read through 1000s of pages. But making bullshit up just to hate, for no reason what so ever, is just sad.

[Syegfryed]

Well, first of all. Thank you for proving to me you don't know Tolkien.

Pure gold coming from the person who said the show honor him and that they work with the canon, despite making shit left and right, ignoring and changing canon.

1. Halbrand as a character is made up for the show

Oh, so indeed, its not canon

but Halbrand and his purpose for the story is not. They made it quite brilliantly and also shows how they get some rights from bits and pieces as they've said, not just straight up trilogy, appendices, hobbit.

The purpose to take Galadriel as his queen? his falling in love with her? and that she is the reason he went bad again because she rejected him?

This purpose is what tolkien wrote? and im sorry, brilliantly? now i KNOW for sure you are joking.

No, as I said no one ever said she did, either in the show or not

The show literally did, She went to middle earth to hunt for Sauron, she even wanted to swim the entire ocean till middle earth for it.

She was already in Middle Earth.

So, it was not canon.

She wanted her own kingdom, but that came later after settling into middle earth.

But that is the reason she went to middle earth, not to hunt for sauron.

3. She focus on Sauron because Sauron is the main cause of Finrods death, she never said that Sauron killed him only that Sauron was the cause of his death. During the scene where you see Finrods body, it's obvious (for fans of Tolkien that knows his fate) he has been killed by werewolves. They literally have said in interviews they made sure to have claw marks etc on him because he was killed by werewolfs. That you see something else is only in your mind.

She said Sauron killed him yes. And since you point the marks, what about the mark that Sauron use to guide the orcs to mordor, why in the ass did he put basically a map, into the body of his enemy that the elves would follow? or you want to argue it was the werewolf who did? the symbol that she spend thousand of years not knowing what it means, but it was just turn to side in numenor that they would crack up the case? hum? brilliantly twist, right?

As said, they'll most likely explore this in the next season. I'd be surprised if this wasn't a plot from Sauron using either black magic or (hopefully) some kind of magic or corruption from Shelob. They needed to accelerate the threat of elves fading, this is how he did it. Wouldn't really be lore breaking, even if it's not compeltely lore accurate.

So you are backpedaling of "its not changing much" to "its not breaking the lore" besides, it is breaking the lore

The whole point of season 1 is a fucking up about how the elves are DYING, and they need the mithrill from the dwarves to survive, how is that honoring Tolkin work and "everything is up to par with canon"?

You're AGAIN welcome to ask any questions you have if you'd like to if you actually want to learn more about Tolkeins world

The only think i would get from the questions is a good laugh, you had me there in the first half, not gonna lie.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Pretty sure it wasn't sauron who kill her brother but a werewolf,

as this is like one of the 3 story's I know about, Wouldn't this still fit fine for the show?

Sauron turned into a werewolf and got beat up by a wolfhound in the Silmarillion, so if the Silmarillion said he died to a werewolf and the show say's it was Sauron that would just mean he turned into one to kill him for the show.

[Syegfryed]

as this is like one of the 3 story's I know about, Wouldn't this still fit fine for the show?

Sauron turned into a werewolf and got beat up by a wolfhound in the Silmarillion, so if the Silmarillion said he died to a werewolf and the show say's it was Sauron that would just mean he turned into one to kill him for the show.

The point is the dude is saying everything is on par with canon and honor what Tolkien did, and that was baffling.

Sauron turning in a werewolf to kill him, isn't a change i would be bothered about tbh, more bothered that they didn't show the fight.

[Askyl]

Pure gold coming from the person who said the show honor him and that they work with the canon, despite making shit left and right, ignoring and changing canon.



Oh, so indeed, its not canon



The purpose to take Galadriel as his queen? his falling in love with her? and that she is the reason he went bad again because she rejected him?

This purpose is what tolkien wrote? and im sorry, brilliantly? now i KNOW for sure you are joking.


The show literally did, She went to middle earth to hunt for Sauron, she even wanted to swim the entire ocean till middle earth for it.



So, it was not canon.


But that is the reason she went to middle earth, not to hunt for sauron.


She said Sauron killed him yes. And since you point the marks, what about the mark that Sauron use to guide the orcs to mordor, why in the ass did he put basically a map, into the body of his enemy that the elves would follow? or you want to argue it was the werewolf who did? the symbol that she spend thousand of years not knowing what it means, but it was just turn to side in numenor that they would crack up the case? hum? brilliantly twist, right?



So you are backpedaling of "its not changing much" to "its not breaking the lore" besides, it is breaking the lore

The whole point of season 1 is a fucking up about how the elves are DYING, and they need the mithrill from the dwarves to survive, how is that honoring Tolkin work and "everything is up to par with canon"?



The only think i would get from the questions is a good laugh, you had me there in the first half, not gonna lie.

Well, I know when to stop and this is it. You keep making up stuff that isn't real to use as arguments and won't listen to facts. Your focus is to hate, because you need to get something out of you I guess? But you don't care to learn about Tolkien and his world, only to use it for hate.

[Shadowferal]

This "show" is not much more than fabricated nonsense. Damn, the script is....shit. The writers should try to blame AI for it.

[Wilian]

I really needed Avengers team up scene in Middle-Earth.