1. #9561
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    an example, compressing the timeline was a reasonable change for the adaptation, that was fine, no criticism here, but changing the order of how the rings were made and make the same dude with a bad wig infiltrate the elves was shit it fundamentally change the plot making worse and dumber
    The other rings haven't been made yet, right? As such there is still room for the Annatar character to be present for those in order to differentiate them from The Three. In the source material Annatar wasn't trusted by some of the highest ranking elves, and yet he still got to hang out for a hundred years making magical relics. Tolkien didn't explain exactly what he did in that time, so there is room for this version of Annatar to expand on that. Tolkien also didn't write ANYTHING concerning how the other rings were distributed so there is also room for Annatar to have a hand in that.

    As for using the same actor in a different disguise that makes perfect sense from a visual perspective. I'm glad they're not pushing the whole "is THIS really Sauron" thing again since I don't think it worked well in the first season, so now even people who aren't familiar with the source material can immediately recognize who this is. As for how he disguises himself in the setting, I'm willing to see what they come up with (and since it's a fantasy world with fucking magic there are plenty of options). Until we see how he's introduced there's no reason to think that anyone will be in a position to say "hey, you're obviously an elf but you look very similar to a human that was here for a few days so you're obviously the same person".

    There really isn't anything solid to go on yet beyond "Annatar seems to exist in season 2" but you are so dead set on just vomiting negativity that this fact alone seems to have triggered you. It definitely CAN work, so until you actually use your words and explain why you think it can't you really have no leg to stand on here. How does changing the order of how the rings were made (other than the One Ring being the last) make any difference? Here, I'll give you the pitch: "Oh no, Sauron has resurfaced! We just made these three powerful rings that might help us fight him. Maybe we should make some for the dwarves and humans as well so that they too can stand against Sauron". Easy peasy.
    Last edited by Adamas102; 2024-05-17 at 06:57 AM.

  2. #9562
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    That being said, the show was definitely weaker in the writing category. I don't feel like it juggled the various storylines well, and they probably should have outright cut the hobbit section since it didn't really tie into the others. I thought pushing the whole "which one of these guys is Sauron" mystery was completely unnecessary and didn't really add much since people familiar with the lore were quickly able to deduce who it was and those who weren't just didn't care.
    Basically. Season 1 would have been a lot better if they'd just focused on like two of the plotlines instead of the 5? they tried to do. The Hobbits would have been fine if they weren't competing for screentime with everything else. It's undoubtedly why the climax felt so rushed.

    Hell, I would have been happy if it was just Elrond/the dwarves and Arondir/Bronwyn as the main characters... But I understand why Galadriel's stuff was necessary for the story they wanted to tell.
    Last edited by s_bushido; 2024-05-17 at 07:24 AM.

  3. #9563
    The Unstoppable Force Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    The other rings haven't been made yet, right? As such there is still room for the Annatar character to be present for those in order to differentiate them from The Three.
    No there isn't.

    First off, the whole thing about making the rings was dumb. Guyladriel KNEW making the rings was Sauron plan, was his ordeal and he had personal motives, that, being the dark lord of all, you would at least, question, if they are good. But they still decided to make then anyway.

    And then, an elf out of nowhere - that is the same guy with a wig - comes to make MORE RINGS? why? they already made the 3 to save the elven race, why would they need more? if anyone comes up with the idea of making more it have to be fucking suspicious and nobody would rly eat that shit up.

    Is crap, the entire plot changed and became dumber, and you think is fine because "well, its annatar so its all right"

    ITs like if you are adapting Saruman death, but he die falling from an eagle he conjured out of his ass, but hey, Saruman died too right? the end result is the same., saruman dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    I'm glad they're not pushing the whole "is THIS really Sauron" thing again since I don't think it worked well in the first season, so now even people who aren't familiar with the source material can immediately recognize who this is..
    This is another proof of how they changing the order of things fucked this over

    It was bad, you even said so

    As for using the same actor in a different disguise that makes perfect sense from a visual perspective
    No it doesn't, pick another actor, Sauron is a fucking shapeshifter not a hairdresser.

    He can be another actor and we as the audience know the truth
    Last edited by Syegfryed; 2024-05-17 at 10:11 AM.

  4. #9564
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    There really isn't anything solid to go on yet beyond "Annatar seems to exist in season 2" but you are so dead set on just vomiting negativity
    I mean... That's just not true. We know he doesn't appear to have changed his face from his Halbrand persona. We know he is being confronted directly by the elves. We know Galadriel seems to be calling him out on his identity. We know he's fighting back.

    That's not just "he exists" - that's the outline of some serious plot points.

    Most notably, it means that they're not trying to hide his identity in pretty much any way. As soon as Galadriel sees him, she'll know. This puts the entire plot line on a serious timer, because we know it's being sustained purely by how long they can keep her away. That in itself already sets out a lot of plot constraints, especially since we see her together with Elrond in other shots, meaning there's multiple crossovers between the character arcs - not to mention she's also (ostensibly) shown with one of the elven rings, which is even more crossover.

    That's not all the details, and it's not all the execution, but it's the outline of a shaky and contrived plot because it all hinges on an incredibly obvious identity somehow not being revealed immediately. You know where that kind of plot usually appears? In comedies. Because there it derives its humor precisely from the enormous contrivance required to keep such an obvious secret. It's funny precisely because it's a ridiculous notion that such a blatant disguise would ever fool anyone - and of course it also requires the audience to be a willing participant in the deception. But this isn't a comedy. It's a drama. Which makes people understandably concerned about how they're going to pull this off without it becoming ridiculous or contrived.

    Now, of course we haven't seen the whole show so we can't tell, and if they do pull it off in a clever way then all credit to them, well deserved. In the end, the final product is all that matters for whether it's good or not, and the fact that people were concerned won't matter. But it does explain their concern at this stage. It's not just "dead-set negativity" that's at work here, it's reasoned and justified concern about a plot detail that while not fully available at least operates under certain frame conditions that make it a precarious prospect. Whether or not you agree with people's concerns, you have to at least acknowledge that they're not just spiteful and unfounded. There is good reasoning behind at least this particular concern.

  5. #9565
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    First off, the whole thing about making the rings was dumb. Guyladriel KNEW making the rings was Sauron plan, was his ordeal and he had personal motives, that, being the dark lord of all, you would at least, question, if they are good. But they still decided to make then anyway.
    Did you not pay attention? Making ONE ring was Sauron's supposed plan. Splitting it into three for the express purpose that one person not have that much power (and also uncovering Sauron's identity so that he couldn't BE there when the rings were made) denied Sauron the power he was trying to get. In the lore Celebrimbor just got lucky that he made the Three on his own because he never had any idea what Annatar was doing with the other rings. Presumably in the show they will cover exactly how Sauron corrupts the 16 and why he didn't just take them before going off to make the One Ring.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    And then, an elf out of nowhere
    You have NO IDEA how he's introduced, but "an elf out of nowhere" is pretty much how Tolkien wrote it. "An elf out of nowhere that was rejected and distrusted by the likes of Gil-Galad, Galadriel, and Elrond still just got to hang out making magical artifact for a hundred years and no one really did anything about it". Tolkien didn't write some masterful infiltration plot. He was an elf that claimed he was an emissary from the Valar and the smiths of Eregion trusted him at face value. What do you fucking expect when the lore itself is super barebones on the whole thing? This is literally you just not liking something because it is slightly different.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    they already made the 3 to save the elven race, why would they need more? if anyone comes up with the idea of making more it have to be fucking suspicious and nobody would rly eat that shit up.
    You have NO IDEA how they address that, and your lack of imagination isn't proof that it can't work. Why would they make more? Maybe because they realize now that Sauron is back and even though his plan was just thwarted they should make more preparations in case he decides to come back. Who is to say Annatar is the one that gives them that idea? And even if it is, without knowing how that idea is presented we can't know how reasonable it is to whoever it's presented to. Maybe Gil-Galad does reject the idea (the way he rejected Annatar) but the smiths of Eregion in their hubris decide to do it anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    ITs like if you are adapting Saruman death, but he die falling from an eagle he conjured out of his ass, but hey, Saruman died too right? the end result is the same., saruman dead.
    You mean like how Peter Jackson did it in the movies? Where Saruman is killed at Isengard in a scene that didn't even make the theatrical cut. The Scouring of the Shire hits a pretty major theme for Tolkien's writing so did rewriting it make the whole trilogy shit? No, you lose a pretty important plot point from the source material but the story the movies were conveying remains pretty much intact.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    No it doesn't, pick another actor, Sauron is a fucking shapeshifter not a hairdresser.

    He can be another actor and we as the audience know the truth
    Again, the fact that you lack imagination and can't understand the reasons WHY these changes are made doesn't make the changes bad. Yeah, they could have done things differently. EVERYTHING could be done differently. I think keeping the same actor is ideal for visual consistency, but yeah I'm curious to see how they handle it in world.

  6. #9566
    I've never seen so many people, gather to talk about something, being so wrong and showing so little knowledge shouting at each other than this thread. And doing everything in their power to add political insults into every character, narrative and story discussion.

    Imagine being so hurt that a show isn't exactly as you envisioned it, because your vision comes from ragebait youtube channels.

  7. #9567
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    I mean... That's just not true. We know he doesn't appear to have changed his face from his Halbrand persona. We know he is being confronted directly by the elves. We know Galadriel seems to be calling him out on his identity. We know he's fighting back.
    We don't know WHEN any of those things happen. It looks like he's confronted by Celebrimbor in some ruins so presumably that's closer to the end of the season when things have already started falling apart. We also don't know that Galadriel's voice over is referring to Annatar specifically, just Sauron in general who they (as of the start of the season) believe has left Eregion.

    As Tolkien wrote it Annatar was a sketchy elf that claimed he was an emissary from the Valar and even though some of the highest ranking elves distrusted him and refused to deal with him he was still fully accepted by the smiths. The theme is that hubris and a desire for power blinded at least SOME of the elves to the true nature of who was guiding them, but Tolkien didn't really flesh any of this out at all.

    In terms of the show, using the same actor in order to maintain visual consistency makes sense, and until we know who exactly Annatar deals with directly there's no reason to assume his face alone is a giveaway within the context that it's presented.

    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    Most notably, it means that they're not trying to hide his identity in pretty much any way. As soon as Galadriel sees him, she'll know. This puts the entire plot line on a serious timer, because we know it's being sustained purely by how long they can keep her away. That in itself already sets out a lot of plot constraints, especially since we see her together with Elrond in other shots, meaning there's multiple crossovers between the character arcs - not to mention she's also (ostensibly) shown with one of the elven rings, which is even more crossover.
    As far as her and Elrond are aware Sauron has left Eregion so there's no real reason for them to remain there instead of going back to Lindon, or Kazad-dum, or perhaps even pursuing Halbrand back to wherever they think he might have gone. Celebrimbor having dealt directly with Halbrand is really the only "issue" but again we go back to the smiths of Eregion being blinded by the gifts that Annatar brought. What exactly those are we don't know. Within the context of the show The Three are unique because they were crafted with the Valinor metal, so maybe he brings something else to the table for the creation of magic rings that convinces them he's working in their favor.
    Last edited by Adamas102; 2024-05-17 at 03:55 PM.

  8. #9568
    Quote Originally Posted by Askyl View Post
    I've never seen so many people, gather to talk about something, being so wrong and showing so little knowledge shouting at each other than this thread. And doing everything in their power to add political insults into every character, narrative and story discussion.

    Imagine being so hurt that a show isn't exactly as you envisioned it, because your vision comes from ragebait youtube channels.
    Imagine being so utterly ignorant of a source material something is based on then trying to yell at people who point out an "adaptation" has barely anything in common with its source.

    It has nothing to do with how we "envisioned it" and everything to do with how Tolkein WROTE IT.
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    It's a strange and illogical world where not wanting your 10 year old daughter looking at female-identifying pre-op penises at the YMCA could feasibly be considered transphobic.

  9. #9569
    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    Imagine being so utterly ignorant of a source material something is based on then trying to yell at people who point out an "adaptation" has barely anything in common with its source.

    It has nothing to do with how we "envisioned it" and everything to do with how Tolkein WROTE IT.
    Tolkien wrote, what, 2 sentences concerning Annatar's role in the appendices and in the Silmarillion two paragraphs? Tolkien made a bare bones outline of this entire period that the show covers so stop acting like there is a brilliantly written narrative that is being ignored. These arguments have EVERYTHING to do with how you envision it because there's very little substance to what Tolkien actually wrote. So much of the legendarium for the 2nd Age is just lists or brief synopses of events. It's not a sacred text that can stand on its own and there is plenty of room to adapt and flesh out, which includes making drastic changes to better fit a different medium. This idea that the show has "barely anything in common with its source" is just ridiculous.
    Last edited by Adamas102; 2024-05-17 at 08:07 PM.

  10. #9570
    The Unstoppable Force Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    Did you not pay attention? Making ONE ring was Sauron's supposed plan.
    Clearly this was not the case, since he came back to create more

    Splitting it into three for the express purpose that one person not have that much power (and also uncovering Sauron's identity so that he couldn't BE there when the rings were made) denied Sauron the power he was trying to get. In the lore Celebrimbor just got lucky that he made the Three on his own because he never had any idea what Annatar was doing with the other rings. Presumably in the show they will cover exactly how Sauron corrupts the 16 and why he didn't just take them before going off to make the One Ring.
    "the ring is made to corrupt the user, but instead of making one, to corrupt one person, lets make THREE, for three users, that definitely not corrupt three persons and will fuck up his plan"

    What a diahrea of plot is that that you are defending mate. They already know the creation of the ring was the idea of the dark lord, why in the ass would you make more if you already have the three? the plot doesn't make sense, at all.


    You have NO IDEA how he's introduced, but "an elf out of nowhere" is pretty much how Tolkien wrote it.
    And that would be fine, if you didn't had the dark lord himself, showing up before, wanting to make these rings in the first place my boy.


    the darklord halbrand: Lets make this ring, thats my idea(my plan)
    -> He is shunned away, after they discover his identity
    an elf out of nowhere: Hey guys, i want to make more of these rings you have wink wink

    What

    That is why changing the order of things change the plot and make DUMBER.


    You have NO IDEA how they address that
    I do have an idea, they will fucking ignore it, because the show is awful and had similar bad writing in season 1.

    and your lack of imagination isn't proof that it can't work.
    Isn't my lack of imagination, but my lack of eating bullshit

    You mean like how Peter Jackson did it in the movies?
    I purposely pick that scene and made it absurd so you could see the difference, yet it flew over your heard with your lack of imagination.

    the part of him conjuring an eagle out of his ass, was exactly to show the changes in the show are like that.

    Again, the fact that you lack imagination and can't understand the reasons WHY these changes are made doesn't make the changes bad
    I know why they made, because people doing the show are hacks, and nobody how you cope about the changes were bad.

  11. #9571
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Clearly this was not the case, since he came back to create more
    Because... he didn't succeed the first time... Seriously? Is it really that hard for you to grasp?

    He wanted to make one ring, but was found out and rejected by Galadriel before the task was complete (and the power was split between three). Now he returns with a revised plan. Yeah, Tolkien never wrote an intricate Keyser Soze level plan either. His plan failed there as well and he had to go all the way back to Eregion to get the rings back so that he could redistribute them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    "the ring is made to corrupt the user, but instead of making one, to corrupt one person, lets make THREE, for three users, that definitely not corrupt three persons and will fuck up his plan"
    Yes, because the power is split in order to balance them between the three trusted to keep the rings. So you really preferred Celebrimbor just randomly making three to prove to himself that he's hot shit and getting lucky that they just happened to warn him of Sauron's One Ring? Wow, what a compelling narrative... Again, we just go back to you being salty that it isn't exactly how Tolkien wrote it even though he didn't actually make a proper narrative for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    What a diahrea of plot is that that you are defending mate. They already know the creation of the ring was the idea of the dark lord, why in the ass would you make more if you already have the three? the plot doesn't make sense, at all.
    The elves were already trying to make a powerful artifact that would stave off their decline. Sauron didn't initiate the project, and now that they think he's gone there's not reason why they shouldn't continue making similarly powerful artifacts. Where is this idea coming from that the elves should just stop all their works that were started before Sauron even came into the picture? You're just projecting what you already know of the events that follow onto what characters should be doing with the limited knowledge they have.


    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    I purposely pick that scene and made it absurd so you could see the difference, yet it flew over your heard with your lack of imagination.

    the part of him conjuring an eagle out of his ass, was exactly to show the changes in the show are like that.
    Ah, so another garbage "argument" from you that has nothing to do with the show because you'd rather pull inane scenarios out of your ass than actually address the topic at hand. Bravo.
    Last edited by Adamas102; 2024-05-17 at 09:49 PM.

  12. #9572
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    Tolkien wrote, what, 2 sentences concerning Annatar's role in the appendices and in the Silmarillion two paragraphs? Tolkien made a bare bones outline of this entire period that the show covers so stop acting like there is a brilliantly written narrative that is being ignored. These arguments have EVERYTHING to do with how you envision it because there's very little substance to what Tolkien actually wrote. So much of the legendarium for the 2nd Age is just lists or brief synopses of events. It's not a sacred text that can stand on its own and there is plenty of room to adapt and flesh out, which includes making drastic changes to better fit a different medium. This idea that the show has "barely anything in common with its source" is just ridiculous.
    And yet somehow with JUST BARE BONES as you say they manage to ignore just about every single thing he wrote. Galadriel is literally nothing like her book counterpart, the making of the rings is different, half the cast was new characters, they included a wizard (TOTALLY NOT GANDALF GUYS) and Hobbits (sorry Harfoots wink wink) in a time where it was expressively said they didn't do anything/weren't there. Not to mention they took several thousand years of history and squished it (not to mention taking things like the waking of Durins Bane and moving it from almost 2000 years into the third age and into the second age).

    What did they get right from the bare bones as you so put it (also try actually reading the Silmarillon before you say ignorant things like that)? The names of people and places? That is about it.
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  13. #9573
    The Unstoppable Force Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    Because... he didn't succeed the first time... Seriously? Is it really that hard for you to grasp?
    What is hard for you to graps that his plan was never to make only one ring?
    He wanted to make one ring, but was found out and rejected by Galadriel before the task was complete
    Can we also point how this semi-love affair and rejection is stupid, or you wanna cope its fine since the end result is the same?
    Yeah, Tolkien never wrote
    Its amazing how you try to tempt 'Tolkien enver did this or that", to explain away shit from the show, that ignore and change actually stuff he wrote.


    Yes, because the power is split in order to balance them between the three trusted to keep the rings.
    bullshit.

    So you really preferred Celebrimbor just randomly making three to prove to himself that he's hot shit and getting lucky that they just happened to warn him of Sauron's One Ring? Wow, what a compelling narrative...
    You are defending the show, you don't get shit to talk about compelling narrative

    And yes, i would prefer that, is what Tolkien wrote, a more compelling narrator
    Again, we just go back to you being salty that it isn't exactly how Tolkien wrote
    We are making fun of it because its wrirtten badly and dumb, you are in your own echo chamber with that strawman.

    The elves were already trying to make a powerful artifact that would stave off their decline. Sauron didn't initiate the project, and now that they think he's gone there's not reason why they shouldn't continue making similarly powerful artifacts.
    bullshit, they already made the artifacts, three at that, there is not a single reason to make more.

    Second, there is no more materials, third, why would you even trust that to a random elf, after what happened first when yout rust someone who was disguised as Sauron? NOT A LITTLE SUSPCIOUS???!?

    Ah, so another garbage "argument" from you that has nothing to do with the show because you'd rather pull inane scenarios out of your ass than actually address the topic at hand. Bravo.
    that is exactly the topic at hand dear, the rings of power show is pulling insane scenarios out of their ass, and you are clapping like a seal because "the result is the same"


    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    And yet somehow with JUST BARE BONES as you say they manage to ignore just about every single thing he wrote


    Its unbelievable.

    Dude is basically arguing tolkien does not have compelling narrative and the show is doing a better job changing stuff he wrote.

  14. #9574
    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    And yet somehow with JUST BARE BONES as you say they manage to ignore just about every single thing he wrote. Galadriel is literally nothing like her book counterpart, the making of the rings is different, half the cast was new characters, they included a wizard (TOTALLY NOT GANDALF GUYS) and Hobbits (sorry Harfoots wink wink) in a time where it was expressively said they didn't do anything/weren't there. Not to mention they took several thousand years of history and squished it (not to mention taking things like the waking of Durins Bane and moving it from almost 2000 years into the third age and into the second age).

    What did they get right from the bare bones as you so put it (also try actually reading the Silmarillon before you say ignorant things like that)? The names of people and places? That is about it.
    All the things you mention are in the books, you're just quibbling over timeline. Wizard that goes East? Yep. Maybe Gandalf, maybe not, but even if it is him if there's no plan to cover when he actually arrives later in the timeline then this is when he arrives in the show timeline. Harfoots exist in the written material, now they are present in this point in time (and haven't even affected the primary Rings narrative anyway). The rings are being made in a slightly different order, but most of the main plot points are present (Annatar seems to have a hand in the crafting the 16, three are made separately, the 16 are eventually distributed amongst dwarves and men). Durin's Bane exists and has at least some part in the downfall of Kazad-dum which presumably will be presented in the show, but we don't know to what extent. You mentioned Celeborn's absence a page or so ago, and while he doesn't NEED to be part of the narrative right now the way they mentioned him suggests that he will eventually be part of it.

    So yes, all of these points that are being covered in the show come from the books, just not spread out over the hundreds, or even thousands of years because that doesn't lend itself well to the screen. And yeah, I literally pulled up the Silmarillion again just to see how little writing is actually dedicated to things like the crafting of the rings and the downfall of Numenor (it's not a lot). Remember though, if the show only really had access to the appendices (which I also have here) then it's A LOT less to work with. Yes, these are glorified outlines with disjointed narratives told in a fashion similar to a grade school history book jumping from one event to another with barely any dialogue that would actually bring these characters to life. Thinking of them on the same level as LotR or The Hobbit is just ridiculous.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    And yes, i would prefer that, is what Tolkien wrote, a more compelling narrator
    I should really stop engaging because as always you prove that you can barely even string together a coherent thought, resorting to little more than "oh yeah, this was dumb, too". But hey, at least you outed your lie from before about this not having to do with "because it's not what Tolkien wrote". You keep thinking that this has anything to do with "defending the show" but all I'm actually doing is just pointing out how fucking stupid your "criticisms" are. The show may well be shit, you apparently just lack the ability to explain your position. This pretty much goes for almost every single movie/show thread you seem to pop up in so I guess I'm not really surprised by your gift for shit posting.

    The narrative being presented in the show is pretty fucking clear and isn't that different from what's written. It's pretty simple. I've laid it out multiple times now. If you can't wrap your head around that then that's squarely on you. I'm really starting to realize that when you say "it's dumb" what you really mean is "I don't really understand this".
    Last edited by Adamas102; 2024-05-17 at 10:57 PM.

  15. #9575
    I am Murloc! Asrialol's Avatar
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    Tldr, people in this thread thinks they are better writers. Makes me giggle.
    Hi

  16. #9576
    The Unstoppable Force Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    I should really stop engaging because
    Because you have no idea what you are talking about and the only thing you are doing is coping defending the show dumb decisions.

    but all I'm actually doing is just pointing out how fucking stupid your "criticisms" are.
    You are trying, but you are just showing how fucking stupid your "points" are, to a a degree that you said what Tolkien wrote was less compelling that was made in the show, believable.


    The show may well be shit, you apparently just lack the ability to explain your position.
    Ah yes, the classic "well the show is shit, but NOT BECAUSE THE REASONS YOU SAID", besides, the reasons i said are the ones everyone and their mothers are using to criticise the dumb changing from the original source, because is common sense.

    Hum, when did i saw this desperate defense before? It was with another show show was canceled, layer maybe? hum...
    This pretty much goes for almost every single movie/show thread you seem to pop up in so I guess I'm not really surprised by your gift for shit posting.
    I mean, if every single movie/show thread there is dumb and band changes, count me in, but i was in the house of the dragon thread praising it, so you are just lying to make your point look good, classic fallacy when you have no defense other than attack me or what i said, because the show is bad and you can't defend it by itself by their own merits.

    The narrative being presented in the show is pretty fucking clear and isn't that different from what's written.
    The narrative is fucking different, the three elven rings are created the last for specific reasons and the events happen totally different, saying there isn't difference from what was written before, just because the end result is the same is obnoxious.

    Is even dumber, when what was changed before the end result was godamn awful

  17. #9577
    The Unstoppable Force rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    It has nothing to do with how we "envisioned it" and everything to do with how Tolkein WROTE IT.
    If that was truly the case then the same people bashing Rings of Power wouldn't also be praising the Peter Jackson Lord of the Rings trilogy. Peter Jackson made changes anywhere he felt like and did not follow exactly how Tolkien wrote it. But don't let reason stop what has been irrational hate and will continue to be.
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  18. #9578
    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    Imagine being so utterly ignorant of a source material something is based on then trying to yell at people who point out an "adaptation" has barely anything in common with its source.

    It has nothing to do with how we "envisioned it" and everything to do with how Tolkein WROTE IT.
    It seems like you don't know how Tolkien wrote it, that's the thing. Almost everything in this show honors Tolkien in many ways. They take quite large liberties where there is something unwritten, but when it comes to canon work so far everything is up to par. It's pretty much not exactly what Tolkien had in mind, but matching the source material (that they have rights to and actually is the only canon work for 2nd age) it still fits.

    People like you that actually have't read Tolkien (other than maybe Hobbit) seem to think the 2nd age is a large massive written story with details all over the place. Silmarillion have 1 chapter about Numenor and a few pages about the 2nd age.

    If you'd like to know why there isn't much about the 2nd age; that's because Tolkien made up the 2nd age while writing Lord of the rings. Silmarillion was written before Lord of the Rings.

    Everything else outside of Lotr, Hobbit, Silmarillion is none canon work that was compiled into stuff like History of Middle Earth. Which still was mostly focused on world building and 1st age.

    A perfect example for this is Galadriel. One of the most important and oldest elves. She was made up while he was writing Lord of the Rings and that's why there's so little about her in the 1st and 2nd age even if she was one of the greater elves, from the golden house of Finarfin and one of the ring bearers. She was made up late, and he didn't have time to finish her backstory.

    And how ever you like it or not, RoP nails the little description we get from Tolkien about her.
    Last edited by Askyl; 2024-05-18 at 06:12 AM.

  19. #9579
    Quote Originally Posted by Askyl View Post
    Almost everything in this show honors Tolkien in many ways.
    It's true. When they waxed on poetic about sinky stones and floaty boats, tears were streaming down my face.

    I assume because I was so moved by the incredibly Tolkien-esque writing. I could be mistaken.

  20. #9580
    The Unstoppable Force Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Askyl View Post
    It seems like you don't know how Tolkien wrote it, that's the thing. Almost everything in this show honors Tolkien in many ways. They take quite large liberties where there is something unwritten, but when it comes to canon work so far everything is up to par.

    HAHAHAHA, wait are you serious?

    no it can be serious, you are joking with us. They literally change canon left and right. Like there was no human halbrand that teach Celebrimbor stuff, Guyladriel doesn't go to middle earth for revenge against Sauron. Pretty sure it wasn't sauron who kill her brother but a werewolf, mithrill isn't a magic stone that was made by the fight of a balrog and someone else with the light of the silmaril, together with many other nonsenses, you can't possible say it ''honors" him, especially with the numenor allegory to immigrants, that was not something tolkien wrote.


    It's pretty much not exactly what Tolkien had in mind, but matching the source material (that they have rights to and actually is the only canon work for 2nd age) it still fits.
    It doesn't fit.

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