Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[Triceron]

Oh yeah, forgot you were also one of those insufferable shitposters.

You're on MMOC, dude. This thread is being kept alive by insufferable shitposts

Think hard, when was the last time you actually had a discussion in this thread that wasn't about arguing against complainers. Any discussion that was actually about the show itself. I don't think you realize how dead this thread would be if not for all the shitposts.

There has been no meaningful discussion in this thread for months. For practically an entire year. Simple reality. You're shitposting just like everyone else, you're simply in denial of what you're actually doing here.

This is the game, and you're playing it.

[Adamas102]

You're on MMOC, dude. This thread is being kept alive by insufferable shitposts

Think hard, when was the last time you actually had a discussion that wasn't about arguing against complainers. Any discussion that was actually about the show itself. I don't think you realize how dead this thread would be if not for all the shitposts.

There has been no meaningful discussion in this thread for months. Simple reality. You're shitposting just like everyone else, you're simply in denial of what you're actually doing here.

You claimed “white knighting” in the same sentence where you correctly noted that I’ve merely called the show “fine”. You also claimed that I tell other posters that they should like the show when I’ve always been clear that everyone is welcome to dislike it. THAT is shitposting.

Addressing the lack of merit in an argument isn’t shitposting. The only decent point you make concerns the futility in trying to actually have a proper discussion here, but that shouldn’t preclude anyone from trying.

There isn’t much substance to go on right now because the season hasn’t actually started, but I thought the discussion from a few weeks ago revolving around the role of Annatar at this stage of the show at least had a reasonable basis (even if the poster who brought up the argument was incapable of articulating any valid criticism).

[Kithelle]

I will never fathom why people stay in a thread on a MMO fansite, discussing a show they don't like. If you don't like the show, is it really that hard to just.. ignore it? Weird stuff.

That's the thing, so often these days people are obsessed with what they hate...it's like they're personally offended and feel attacked something isn't exactly what they think it should of been. Or they literally have no life beyond hate

Or both

[Triceron]

You claimed “white knighting” in the same sentence where you correctly noted that I’ve merely called the show “fine”. You also claimed that I tell other posters that they should like the show when I’ve always been clear that everyone is welcome to dislike it. THAT is shitposting.

Doesn't matter whether you like the show or not to defend it, which is what you're doing. You're defending the show on the basis that you think the criticisms are overblown and without merit, yet defending it nonetheless.

And where am I claiming you said other posters have to like the show? I also used the words 'perfectly fine', not like.

Addressing the lack of merit in an argument isn’t shitposting. The only decent point you make concerns the futility in trying to actually have a proper discussion here, but that shouldn’t preclude anyone from trying.

Where is the merit in any post that addresses flame bait really? What are we both actually doing here, reaching some common ground in a conflict of opinions?

You already know the posters you are engaging with have no interest in a proper and moderate discussion that changes their opinions based on whatever 'argument with merit' you're bringing to the table. All you would be doing is engaging in what you already know is a circle jerk. And if you really wanted it to stop, the only way is to let it die. Circle jerks come and go, they don't stick around for long. Engage in it with any sort of conflicting interest, and it just keeps the dead topic alive. We both know how it works here, you're not a new poster.

There isn’t much substance to go on right now because the season hasn’t actually started, but I thought the discussion from a few weeks ago revolving around the role of Annatar at this stage of the show at least had a reasonable basis (even if the poster who brought up the argument was incapable of articulating any valid criticism).

Then you're actively engaging in what you know to be foolish and unproductive. Why?

If you really wanted to engage in discussion of this show, why would you knowingly pick the one place that is filled with shitposters to find meaningful discussion, especially when engaging with 'known shitposters'? Is it naivete or ignorance at work here?

Internet is vast. There's far better places to constructively discuss the show if we're being honest. And the hardest truth is no one is here, in this thread, looking for a honest, constructive discussion about the show. We're all shitposters revelling in the trainwreck and the drama in the thread, more than the actual show itself.

[Veggie50]

I'm doing nothing of the sort, I'm stating quite clearly that his asinine comparisons have zero merits, and just for the record, this has been going on since this thread began, I dunno if this is something you have been in for a while, but he and a few other well known white knights have been defending this utterly disgusting attempt at fan fiction since it was first announced, it started out with the usual 'you're racist for calling out characters that quite literally have no place in the source material and are shoehorned into this project for box-ticking purposes but you're being racist', then it became a torrent of 'well Tolkien wrote a single paragraph in a letter about this topic so therefore it's canon, you can't refute it' despite it not being in ANY of the actual written works.

that's how about 200 pages went of fans of the source material calling out the terrible inaccuracies of this project and at every turn being told we were bigots/racists/fascists 'insert any other ist/ism here', and then when that failed they started trying to twist things to their narrative and after 2 years of not even looking at this thread, he's still doing it, so I feel like I'm perfectly justified in calling out stupidity when I see it.

as an aside, rings of power couldn't even manage an industry recognised 'ok' level of viewer retention, by all media metrics this project has failed, that's not me saying it's failed, that's the entire industry they are accountable to saying it's failed by the metrics used to measure such things.

the way I measure if a show/movie is a success or not isn't based on this, I measure how successful something is by how many people I can talk to about it before someone says they didn't like it, and in this case of this absolute disgrace of a production, that didn't even reach 1.

not a single person I know personally was able to bring themselves to finish that dross of a first season, and it's of very little surprise to me that it flopped.

also, stop trying to put words in my mouth, I never once said Arcane is a 'masterpiece', I stated that it was a very good show because the story made sense, the characters worked together, and with it being animated it could do things no live action piece could even dream of doing, LOTR has a very set in stone story, and the fact these showrunners fucked it up so badly speaks volumes to their creative bankruptcy and hubris that they thought they could make what is literally the blueprint for all deep fantasy 'better', and what we got was this steaming pile of shite.

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without the fucking rights, there is no fucking show, ergo, they are the FOUNDATION of the cost of this project, which, in totality has more than double the budget of even the most expensive movies in existence today, once again you're making an entirely disingenuous argument filled with 'well technically if you only look at season 1 it's actually less than that' strawman bullshit, Amazon paid for an entire project of multiple seasons, that's the total cost of the project, trying to be funny with semantics while your entire MO in this thread, is not and will never be factually accurate. but keep trying, I'm sure it might change eventually if you believe in it hard enough.

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he is the Tolkienian version of 'mother nature' and is designed exclusively to be here there and everywhere while being nowhere and nobody at the same time.

he's already dead on arrival because of the childish writing exhibited in that first season, his dialogue is beyond all these hack writers skill COMBINED, it's a pure mark of hubris that they think they can even do the character justice nevermind being shoehorned into this cesspit of a project.

It wasnt perfect, and while the lows were low, I quite enjoyed the good parts. It’s a shame there doesn’t seem to be any room for that opinion with you.

You’re wrong about Bombadil though. Tolkien has stated that he himself never defined who or what Bombadil is and that even he wasn’t sure. Him being some kind of incarnation of whatever phenomenom is pure conjecture.

You argue in quite a toxic manner, so I will withdraw from the conversation.

[Syegfryed]

Oh yeah, forgot you were also one of those insufferable shitposters.

Is this ironic? pot, meet kettle

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It wasnt perfect, and while the lows were low, I quite enjoyed the good parts. It’s a shame there doesn’t seem to be any room for that opinion with you.

Sorry, but even the good parts, which i assume you are thinking the relationship with Durin and Elrond that most people like to think off, that was ruined by the plot being bullshit and making no sense, that actually damage their relation and the awful terrible dialogue they had to say man.

I did tried to like then, you can see they are good actors, but they are reading actually garbage for script

The only way to not get bothered or feel offended by how the show is bad if you actually watch by doing something else, or scrolling your phone, cause you will not be paying attention to what they are doing or saying

You are saying you are curious to what they do with him, obviouslly they are doign to do shit, probably rip him off from Radagast, but we know for a fact they can surprise us with much worse, like he is either a compeltely buffon or a serious guy

[rogoth]

It wasnt perfect, and while the lows were low, I quite enjoyed the good parts. It’s a shame there doesn’t seem to be any room for that opinion with you.

You’re wrong about Bombadil though. Tolkien has stated that he himself never defined who or what Bombadil is and that even he wasn’t sure. Him being some kind of incarnation of whatever phenomenom is pure conjecture.

You argue in quite a toxic manner, so I will withdraw from the conversation.

you're free to like what you like, I nor anybody else has said differently, just don't try to argue that it's the best thing since sliced bread was invented and try to gaslight people who say it's not.

as far as bombadil is concerned, his most likely analogue is that of 'mother nature' whether that's what Tolkien was going for is obviously something we will never know, but that's the most commonly accepted comparison to a known quantity, and irrespective of all that, it's guaranteed that these so-called showrunners and writers will screw it up, in a completely misguided and abhorrent attempt to appeal to an imaginary audience.

yeah well you would be VERY cynical and jaded after having to argue for over 100 pages in this thread the points that this project has bastardised beyond recognition to the white knight crew who plague this space, only to be called every name under the sun for defending this beloved work, just remember, LOTR wasn't inclusive until these gobshites calling themselves producers and showrunners said it was inclusive, it wasn't representative enough until the activists they hired as actors said it was representative during their many paid-for fluff interviews that nobody watched because of how ridiculous they were, and lastly, always remember that if you criticise obvious type casting and hiring based on racist ideology then you're not a progressive person, and you should stop watching these shows because they are only made for the progressive, representative types who will push the 'message' regardless of whether people want it or not.

[Kilpi]

The best way to look at this show is to think as "The Rings Of Power - A fantasy show inspired by the works of Tolkien". Then you just ignore the fact that they are using names and places from Tolkien, and just think that this actually has nothing to do with Lord of the Rings, Silmarillion or any other Tolkien property. As a fantasy show I think the first season was fine, so I'm just looking at it like a Chinese copy of Tolkien.

By comparison the Hobbit movies weren't even good as fanfiction bullshit movies, they just straight up sucked.

[Biomega]

I'm just looking at it like a Chinese copy of Tolkien.

Maybe a little clunky as an analogy, but I get what you mean. It definitely has that cheap mobile game knockoff feel to it, where you think you vaguely recognize what it's based on, but ultimately know it's just a loveless cash-grab not interested in delivering art but in manufacturing product. And that's about the attention I paid it, too - I looked at it for a bit, went "nah fam, I'm good", and never came back.

I guess this isn't meant for me, and I'm kinda cool with that. I still have to engage with it for various professional reasons, but luckily that's mostly abstract and theoretical at this stage so I won't have to finish watching it. Just knowing it exists is enough.

[DarkAmbient]

RoP is the Raid: Shadow Legends of adaptations.

[Kilpi]

Maybe a little clunky as an analogy, but I get what you mean. It definitely has that cheap mobile game knockoff feel to it, where you think you vaguely recognize what it's based on, but ultimately know it's just a loveless cash-grab not interested in delivering art but in manufacturing product. And that's about the attention I paid it, too - I looked at it for a bit, went "nah fam, I'm good", and never came back.

I guess this isn't meant for me, and I'm kinda cool with that. I still have to engage with it for various professional reasons, but luckily that's mostly abstract and theoretical at this stage so I won't have to finish watching it. Just knowing it exists is enough.

Yep. I also expect literally nothing from any Tolkien game, TV show or movie. Since Jackson trilogy we've had the old RTS games that were decent (don't care for RTS games though), but everything else has been meh at best, decaying poop at worst. Even a good game like Shadow of Mordor was shit as a Tolkien product. I'm fully expecting all Tolkien related products to be absolute garbage. The upcoming Weta game might be ok, but I'm not intersted in that even in the slightest.

Oh yea, I guess Lord of the Rings Online has been decent, but every time I've tried to play it, it's been like "this is like playing WoW but it's worse and looks like poop".

[bledgor]

Yep. I also expect literally nothing from any Tolkien game, TV show or movie. Since Jackson trilogy we've had the old RTS games that were decent (don't care for RTS games though), but everything else has been meh at best, decaying poop at worst. Even a good game like Shadow of Mordor was shit as a Tolkien product. I'm fully expecting all Tolkien related products to be absolute garbage. The upcoming Weta game might be ok, but I'm not intersted in that even in the slightest.

Oh yea, I guess Lord of the Rings Online has been decent, but every time I've tried to play it, it's been like "this is like playing WoW but it's worse and looks like poop".

Excuse me? I will not let this blasphemy stand, The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (video game) was fantastic, I played through (100% even) that game several times

[rhorle]

Excuse me? I will not let this blasphemy stand, The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (video game) was fantastic, I played through (100% even) that game several times

Which is strange, if you aren't being sarcastic, because liberties were taken with that video game. A lot of people have this double standard where liberties taken with Rings of Power is bad but allow it in other works. When they like something things are not an issue. When they don't like something they make everything an issue.

[AcidicSyn]

This thread:
Me: Them boots better be yellow or he must otherwise acquire yellow boots dag nabit.

Oh, and let the dude sing.

[Kilpi]

Excuse me? I will not let this blasphemy stand, The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (video game) was fantastic, I played through (100% even) that game several times

Sure, I played it a lot too, but I'm not sure it's a good game, or was I just a huge fanboy of the movie...

[RobertoCarlos]

Which is strange, if you aren't being sarcastic, because liberties were taken with that video game. A lot of people have this double standard where liberties taken with Rings of Power is bad but allow it in other works. When they like something things are not an issue. When they don't like something they make everything an issue.

What liberties were taking out of curiosity there rhorle?

[rhorle]

What liberties were taking out of curiosity there rhorle?

The game came out before the movie and didn't involve Peter Jackson (and the other film makers) as much as promised. It would differ from the movies that already are different from the books. I doubt you are actually interested in a comparison of the 3 mediums though. Everyone who has ever adapted Lord of the Rings (including Tolkien's son) has taken liberties. The acceptance of those is often arbitrary and depends on if you like or don't like something.


" Liberties ARE taken with regards to the storyline and, I can now point out, by the movie. I won't spoil anything for you, but to be fair there, there isn't too much revealed in the way of shocking film footage in this game." https://www.ign.com/articles/2003/11...-of-the-king-5


Despite the game's receiving general critical acclaim and selling well, Peter Jackson, director of the Lord of the Rings film trilogy, stated that the video game tie-in for his next film, King Kong, would not be developed by EA, but by Ubisoft. Jackson's manager claimed that despite EA saying the filmmakers were heavily involved in the making of the game, the developers were not interested in Jackson's input on the game. Additionally, Jackson had played Beyond Good & Evil, and wanted to work with producer Michel Ancel, who was at Ubisoft. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lo...ckson_reaction

The game adaptation doesn't faithfully recreate the movie but instead takes some of the main parts and extends them into situations that are better suited for hack and slash. In the movie I don't recall Sam running through Shelob's lair, dispatching a battalion of orcs and a multitude of lesser giant spiders but the lack of battles during the bulk of the hobbits' journey wouldn't have lent itself too well to this style of gameplay. Plus the actual struggle between Frodo and Gollum in the movie worked well on film but the final battle between them in the game works better for this format, as ridiculous as that was. Though the option to fight Gollum as Sam was a welcome one, given that it felt like he was true hero in the film between those two hobbits.

One liberty the game did take was actually returning a line closer to the original text from the book. Eowyn's quote when she fought the Mouth of Sauron is "“But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Éowyn I am, Éomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him." In the movie was just shortened to "I am no man!" This is a one in a million occurrence of an example where I actually preferred the quote in the movie. It states the literal fact of not being a man with womanhood implied and still adhering to the rule no man can slay the Mouth of Sauron, using the gender loophole to be victorious. It was just more succinct and better for trash talking but it's hard to get upset when a game changes something from the movie to be more true to the book. https://hardcoregamer.com/features/m...e-king/383085/

[RobertoCarlos]

I'm surprised you actually gave an answer I'm impressed.

I'm glad you mentioned the movies differ from the books because Peter Jackson isn't the authority on Lord of the rings adaption, people like the films though and they're largely faithful.

Some people consider anything non Tolkien as not lord of the rings when I tend to view it as a quality thing myself.

Shadow of mordor games are insanely inaccurate with the idea of a 2nd ring of power or shelob being a sexy lady but they are good fun and in good spirit.

I don't think rings of power is good fun or well spirited and more just comes off as using a big fantasy name to boost support of a streaming service that doesn't have many big names on it

[Triceron]

Not to broadly generalize everything and everyone down to a single quote, but I do think 'Winning cures everything' is quite applicable here.

Was it the perfect adaptation? Hell no. But it was well written and well performed all around, enough to change how we see fantasy adaptations done on film. It was one of the most entertaining adaptations in film, one that still managed to respect the majority of Tolkien's vision. That is why most (problematic) changes are trivialized and often looked over.


Rings of Power is being seen as resistant or rejective to adhere to Tolkien's original works and vision, and that colors the perspective of those who see it this way. So the criticisms may look like nitpicks, but they all come from a place of sentimental value and passion rather than logic. Understanding that makes it less about the actual changes, and more a reflection of sentiments of anyone who watched the show.

That is why it's pointless to argue over changes to the lore to someone who simply sees the show as not being faithful, as compared to say the same level of changes to a 'winning' adaptation like LOTR which also had massive lore changes, but is seen for the better not the worse.

ROP is seen as poisoning the series (by certain people) because it never managed to 'win over' these fans, and openly antagonized them and belittled them before the show even released. Terrible fan campaigns, terrible marketting, and plenty of artificial controversy that would be easily avoidable had they stuck closer to the 'winning' vision instead of trying to present a muddled modernized mess that lacked any vision for itself. Kinda like Pro Wrestling introducing a new Heel character, you either love em or hate em.

RoP tried too hard appealing to vastly different audiences, and so it divides the audiences into different tribes like we see here. And we see that in modern fandoms like SW and Marvel and whatever, where there are advocates of different visions of the franchise. RoP is mostly enjoyed by people who don't care about adherence to any particular vision, while those who hate it are seemingly comparing its quality directly to the highest standard (PJ original trilogy). No different than any new SW series being compared to the original trilogy, and having a divisive fanbase for it.

[RobertoCarlos]

I'm actually from new zealand so liking the Peter Jackson films is part of the citizenship test,

but one of the big gripes I have with them are the treatment of two characters,

isildur - They set him up as the fall of man. Which is true, he did fail to cast the ring into the fires of mount doom. But the films fail to make it clear he was trying to rectify his error when he is ambushed by orcs and killed and the ring falls into the river. I think its quite an important distinction because it makes Aragon journey living up to his families potential more dramatic because he succeeds even when tempted by the ring like Isildur was, and Isildur was someone worthy of respect making this more impactful rather than making him a semi villain that makes Elrond Lament men.

And the stewart of gordor Denethor II gets done pretty dirty and made to look cartoon levels of evil when he really wasnt that bad