Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[Orby]

I don't want perfect... I'd just want some damn effort put into it to make it close and feel like it's part of the original stories.

well the show isnt out yet, and all we have is a teaser trailer... so what effort they have put in isnt really out there outside of that teaser. But hey you could be right, I aint gonna say its going to be good myself, I don;t know either. But the story is what is going to make or break it for me.

[Jastall]

As a general rule (this applies to GoT too) when watching these series, the best scenes follow the plot of the source material closely (like the ride to Gondor, which if not worded exactly the same is pretty damn close). The worst scenes are the ones where the plot is changed (“ride out and meet them!”).

Hell, a lot of the best lines in the movies are lifted directly from the books - “and it would seem like wisdom but for the warning in my heart”.

Speaking of things the movie messed up, Faramir has to be pretty high up there too huh… he was great in the books and terrible in the movies. It’s the usual issue - movie writers want to create conflict so they made Faramir an initially threatening character instead of a good guy.

Anyway, the point is, when that’s the reality, why should we have any hope that something with no source material to work from could be good?

I'll get hate for it but I don't mind the Faramir changes that much. In the books he's just too perfect. He was more or less Tolkien's self-insert and it showed in how the one object that tempts ever other Man who lays eyes on it makes him shrug and move on.

Jackson took it too far for the sake of conflict, sure, no arguments here. But making Faramir be truly tempted until he relents precisely because he's a better man than his brother makes him a better character if you ask me, and emphasizes the power of the Ring further.

Denethor though, there's no excuses for it, he turned a nuanced and flawed character into a sneering villain and it sucks.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Are you actually suggesting that people don't read books these days? I know unbridled, irrational hate blinds people, but you could not be more blind to reality lol

Books still release every single day, some continue to top bestsellers lists, people continue to buy and read.

Americans read about 20 minutes a day. Twenty minutes. One glance at the dismally low amount of books our supposedly best authors sell underscores this fact.

Compare 20 minutes of reading to the average amount of time spent gaming, or watching movies and TV shows. Books only matter insofar as they get made into movies or TV shows or have video game adaptations.

As for "best seller's lists", look at how those lists are actually defined. By using Publisher Rocket, any author can easily make it onto a "best seller's list" by writing to market for a category that has only a few books releasing. Authors also make it onto the "best seller" list without actually making it. Usually what happens is that their company buys up 5,000 of the books, and then the author gives the books away for promotion, whilst the purchase is still counted and skyrockets them to the top of the "best seller" list, and then that gets them a lot of publicity and then their books fly off the shelves. It's fake.

Publishers also inflate their own numbers due to the way oldpub works, where they make money not by selling books to bookstores, but instead bookstores returning the books back to the publisher and the publisher destroys the books and gets a tax break. Oldpub is not in the business of actually trying to get people to read books anymore.

Barnes & Noble doesn't make money selling books anymore. They make money selling pens and coffee mugs.

most people would certainly have never even heard about them without the Peter Jackson movies.

Hahaha

[Xath]

Thing is, if it was an established director, from anyone but Amazon I would probably be open to it, but after The Rafe of Time and the fact they once again went with basically no names to produce it, I don't.

This series seems to be following the same path as WoT and that was an utter fucking abomination.

Exactly which is why it's receiving a ton of pessimism rather than nervous optimism because we have already seen amazon royally fuck up a fantasy show this year.

[Nerovar]

Random find of the day. Someone made a Reddit post containing combined pre-release criticism of 2001 trilogy. Many arguments seem weirdly familiar:

https://www.reddit.com/r/lotr/commen...riticized_pjs/

Most critiques of the films were and still are valid.

But his situation will be wholly different. Amazon doesn't even have the rights to the Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales and the History of Middle Earth which effectively means that all they can go by is Appendix B which is half a page of text and one page of timeline. That's it. Peter Jackson at least had access to the literature that was relevant to his adaptation. Amazon doesn't have the rights to the main sources for the Second Age.

[Triceron]

Most critiques of the films were and still are valid.

But his situation will be wholly different. Amazon doesn't even have the rights to the Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales and the History of Middle Earth which effectively means that all they can go by is Appendix B which is half a page of text and one page of timeline. That's it. Peter Jackson at least had access to the literature that was relevant to his adaptation. Amazon doesn't have the rights to the main sources for the Second Age.

Not like it matters. Amazon is deliberately telling a new story using the LOTR name. They aren't exactly looking for authenticity.

[Xath]

Not like it matters. Amazon is deliberately telling a new story using the LOTR name. They aren't exactly looking for authenticity.

They did the same thing with Wheel of Time and it blew up in their face.

[Coniferous]

I'll get hate for it but I don't mind the Faramir changes that much. In the books he's just too perfect. He was more or less Tolkien's self-insert and it showed in how the one object that tempts ever other Man who lays eyes on it makes him shrug and move on.

Jackson took it too far for the sake of conflict, sure, no arguments here. But making Faramir be truly tempted until he relents precisely because he's a better man than his brother makes him a better character if you ask me, and emphasizes the power of the Ring further.

Denethor though, there's no excuses for it, he turned a nuanced and flawed character into a sneering villain and it sucks.

I disagree - I like Faramir in the book. He's kind of an anti-Arthas - he bluntly says he won't make moral compromises even if he thinks he might save his city by doing so. And while I don't think he says so directly, it seems implied to me that it's because of his understanding of the history of Numenor and Gondor. He talks about how the story of Numenorean men has been one of slow decline, and it seems to me that his uncompromising morals stem from his desire to be like the Numenoreans of old, to avoid contributing to the decline he obviously sees and constantly alludes to. When Sam complements him and says he has an "Elvish" air, Faramir says, "Maybe you discern from far away the air of Numenor."

It's the idea that men are corruptible, but some men have always managed to not be corrupted, and those men have been the ones who have always fought against the evils of Sauron and Morgoth.

[Triceron]

They did the same thing with Wheel of Time and it blew up in their face.

They have 2 more seasons confirmed. Don't think they really mich care about whatever 'blew up on their face', since it doesn't seem to matter as much as people think it does.

[bledgor]

They have 2 more seasons confirmed. Don't think they really mich care about whatever 'blew up on their face', since it doesn't seem to matter as much as people think it does.

Ehhh they blew A LOT of good will/faith people had, and considering how fucking awful episode 8 was, think if season 2 isn't very good it will fall off hard. I already know quite a few people that gave it a go and won't watch season 2, including myself.

[Varodoc]

Not like it matters. Amazon is deliberately telling a new story using the LOTR name. They aren't exactly looking for authenticity.

Translation: "They know no one would watch their shitty fanfics if they didn't have the LOTR name associated to it."

That's why people are spamming the quote "Evil cannot create anything new, they can only corrupt and ruin what good forces have invented or made", because it fits this situation perfectly.

[s_bushido]

Translation: "They know no one would watch their shitty fanfics if they didn't have the LOTR name associated to it."

That's why people are spamming the quote "Evil cannot create anything new, they can only corrupt and ruin what good forces have invented or made", because it fits this situation perfectly.

Translation: It's an adaptation and that makes me angry!

Honestly... Literally every movie/tv adaptation is a "shitty fanfic" of the original if this is the metric you're going to use.

Most of them turn out to be crap because it's incredibly difficult to make a good show/movie period...and that's without the extra baggage of basing it on a work that people thought was good enough to adapt in the first place.

[Varodoc]

Translation: It's an adaptation and that makes me angry!

Honestly... Literally every movie/tv adaptation is a "shitty fanfic" of the original if this is the metric you're going to use.

Most of them turn out to be crap because it's incredibly difficult to make a good show/movie period...and that's without the extra baggage of basing it on a work that people thought was good enough to adapt in the first place.

Adaptation of what lol? They don't have the copyright to adapt anything, they are just making shit up.

Most of them turn to crap because these people who adapt them don't care about putting the writer's message but their own, which is not what the movies did, and it's why the movies are still remembered today as the best movies ever made.

[Triceron]

Adaptation of what lol? They don't have the copyright to adapt anything, they are just making shit up.

Most of them turn to crap because these people who adapt them don't care about putting the writer's message but their own, which is not what the movies did, and it's why the movies are still remembered today as the best movies ever made.

I don't get why people get so angry over something that's clearly not made for them.

You said it yourself. It's not an adaptation of anything. It's not canon. So why even be so bothered by it?

I fully aware that this show would very likely be an absolute mess. Doesn't mean there isn't an audience for it out there. People watch bad shows, people watch bad movies. They don't have to be for everyone.

Hobbit trilogy was shitty fanfic. Doesn't mean it can't be enjoyable for people who liked those movies.

[Varodoc]

You said it yourself. It's not an adaptation of anything. It's not canon. So why even be so bothered by it?

Because I have the freedom to be bothered by it, sorry if freedom of speech exists and people will complain about something they dislike.

So in other words, because I can.

[Nask]

Translation: "They know no one would watch their shitty fanfics if they didn't have the LOTR name associated to it."

That's why people are spamming the quote "Evil cannot create anything new, they can only corrupt and ruin what good forces have invented or made", because it fits this situation perfectly.

Since you like that quote, can you point to me where it is in books or the movies? Pretty sure that's not a real quote, but "twisted/corrupted" one, kind of funny eh?

[Triceron]

Because I have the freedom to be bothered by it, sorry if freedom of speech exists and people will complain about something they dislike.

Sure, but if you're replying to me then at least address something we can discuss. Just throwing your opinion around doesn't account to much, considering anything can be considered shitty fanfic. It's tied to personal biases that don't apply to everyone.

'Shitty fanfic' is literally just an expression of opinion, not a criticism of the actual show. Someone can think PJ's LOTR trilogy is shitty fanfic just as well, and they wouldn't be wrong for thinking so, because ultimately it's just their opinion. There'a no objective standard to discuss here. All you're pointing out is that people have opinions. That's all.

[Nyel]

Eh, some of the cgi is kinda poor.

Galadriel hanging from the cliff looks terrible, there's video games that look better.

The autumn trees/waterfall/council looks *really* bad, the trees off on the left side of the shot look straight out of Skyrim.

Rise of the Tomb Raider did it better, yes. Everything looked just like a cheap B-movie and not a 500 million production it's supposed to be.

[Magnagarde]

Wait. You think shadow of war, with shellob and sauron kissing, with celebrimbor forging the one ring, with a new ring of power being forged, With celebrimbor controlling orcs, with Isildur being a Nazgul, had more respect to the source material? Wtf.

I specifically addressed Baranor when speaking further on the subject. Of course it isn't lore friendly and it isn't pretending to be. It is clearly non-canon, but even a game doesn't try to put what is clearly token diversity in an illogical setting.

Even a non-canon game found a logical way to explain why a Haradrim is the Captain of Gondor's guard at Minas Ithil. I loved playing as Baranor. Amazon's show, which I assume might be attempting to present itself as a canon representation of the universe, can and must do better. If it's clearly designated as non-canon, then it's a whatever on my end.

[Nyel]

"Generic" is the go-to word parroted by people, especially fans of a franchise, who just want to hate on something when they cannot say why. It means nothing, and people probably use it without even knowing what it means.

If you wouldn't know that it's Lord of the Rings, you couldn't tell from the trailer. That's what generic in this case means. And it's 100% accurate.