Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[Syegfryed]

Really? You're curious about that? You saw all the rhetoric early on about how dark skinned elves or hobbits or dwarves don't belong in Middle Earth and you wonder why people argue that it wasn't originally very inclusive?

If it wasn't inclusive, why everyone, regardless, loved?

It was very inclusive, because there is more to the story than skin color.

Yeah, it's called adaptation. There's no rule that an adaptation needs to stick to the source material as closely as possible

There is a rule however, that it says it need to be good in the end, and respect the source, at the very list, and the show wan't able to do both.

You're also straight up wrong. Almost all of the main plot points that were laid out in the appendices and Silmarillion for these events are present.

thats where the 10-15% are; the points;

The beloved movies weren't Tolkien's vision either.

As always, "b-b-but the movies"

but it's still decent television

If you claim the CW slobs like the flash and batgirl are decent, yeah, this might fit in the criteria, but flash, last time i saw, had only 50million budget

YOU are absolutely free to dislike the show, but that doesn't make it a "bad" show.

Indeed, whats make a bad show is bad writting, bad acting, bad directing, even bad edits in the cuts, bad figurine as well, bad choreography in most fights, etc etc

[Valarnin]

That isn't true. Amazon reached out to Peter Jackson to have him involved and/or offer input. The Tolkien estate is rumored to have been against Peter Jackson being involved because they were still upset about him ruining the spirit of Tolkien. An executive that was pushing for Peter Jackson left Amazon Studios in 2019. There was also concern about keeping the two cinematic universes seperate and Peter Jackson involved might lead people to think the WB and Amazon universes were connected.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv...es-1235193692/

It is amusing though that some fans are treating Rings of Power the same way the Tolkien Estate viewed the Jackson movies. I don't think the Tolkien estate would ever reveal what they thought since they are focused on monetization and growing the brand. It would be interesting to see if they felt Rings of Power is better or worse then the Jackson films.

Then there are many truths concerning this matter since I remember reading it from few different sources that peter jackson among some tolkien experts would have aided this show gladly but they were not accepted by amazon studios. The link you provided is not anymore trustworthy than any other source starting from online forums. Could also be that amazon studios is giving BS statement just trying to cover their failure. And BS is what amazon does. There is no running around the fact that this show could have been great but instead they deliberately chose to make this BS crab with all the woke influence and messing up with things practically using tolkiens middle-earth story as a popular stepping stone to make their own perverted version. As someone said there is like 10-15% of original story used in this sh**show and I must say that is optimistic evaluation. Peter jackson with his crew made amazing work with the movies and it was bearable amount of changes to original story that they made and this is why those movies still belong among the most watched and loved movies of all time and they will be a huge thing still after 50 years from now and beyond. Yes, this show could have made similar success but it did not. They failed at everything from cast to writing and creating the scenes. It is amazing how you can fck up so badly with an insane budget of over 1 billion dollars and with so many good people willing to help.

edit: I think this show is already among the most hated and most negatively criticized show of film industry. If not the worst even. The only good reviews are done by bots and by people bought by amazon. If it weren't available as free torrents, I would not have wasted any cent watching it after seeing the first episode or perhaps seeing the trailer would have been enough. And this comes from a person who spends almost all his waking hours playing fantasy games, reading about middle-earth and enjoying high-fantasy.

[Adamas102]

If it wasn't inclusive, why everyone, regardless, loved?

Are you serious? Just because people like something doesn't mean it's inclusive. They're completely separate things. Are you thinking of the term "accessible" and confusing that for "inclusive"?

Tolkien's works were still a product of his time and upbringing. That's a fact. Stop playing a fool as if you don't know that his works don't revolve almost entirely around fair skinned male characters. Nothing that was written 75+ years ago is going to be particularly inclusive. And yeah, you're right that there is more to the stories that skin color, which is what made it super easy for the show to depict more variety in the setting without changing the overall plot and themes.

There is a rule however, that it says it need to be good in the end, and respect the source, at the very list, and the show wan't able to do both.

"Respect the source" is a meaningless phrase. Basically the only thing you're saying is "it's not what I was expecting", and that's not a particularly relevant opinion to anyone else. I do agree that Tolkien would have hated the show, just as he would have hated the movies and video games, but again that's kind of irrelevant. He understood that selling the rights to his works was inviting other artists to re-imagine, reinterpret, and expand on his works. THAT'S what you should expect from any adaptation; someone else's take on the story.

Indeed, whats make a bad show is bad writting, bad acting, bad directing, even bad edits in the cuts, bad figurine as well, bad choreography in most fights, etc etc

Cool, ok. Good thing this particular show does a decent/good job on most of those things.

Yeah, we get it. You enjoy being a constant crybaby, a tiresome mope. I'd wager that 95% of your posts on this forum are just you complaining about movies and shows, and almost all of it basically boils down to "I don't like it so it's bad". I mean, I've spent a good amount of time bitching in the GoT thread, but at least I can articulate my opinions beyond "X is bad, and Y is bad, and Z is bad, and it doesn't show respect, and I know other people who didn't like it, and and and did I mention that it's bad?".

[Syegfryed]

Are you serious? Just because people like something doesn't mean it's inclusive. They're completely separate things. Are you thinking of the term "accessible" and confusing that for "inclusive"?

No, i think you are confusing inclusion with the modern way of using it, a story doesn't need to be inclusive regarding adding different ethnic groups, because the story is not about this, there is context to the book and the reason they made, and thats we don't judge these kind of things with the eyes of current time neither do anacronism.

The book is very inclusive because any person can identify with the character without superfluous reasons.

Tolkien's works were still a product of his time and upbringing.

Same way work from authors in different places are a product that reflect their own upbringing, shocking.

"Respect the source" is a meaningless phrase.

Not rly, you respect the source by not fucking with the work, like making Elrond kiss his mother-in-law or force a ship with her and sauron

Thats disgusting and sick to his memory.

Cool, ok. Good thing this particular show does a decent/good job on most of those things.

No it doesn't.

If it did, more would be fine with it and would make actual success, you know, like the hobbit trilogy

This one is garbage, we ripped apart season 1 episode by episode, i could do again with season 2, but its going in deaf ears with people full on copium, you don't rly care about "articulated" opinions, don't pretend you do, cause you didn't mention why the show i decent either, and no, condescending the timeline isn't a groundbreaking shit they did.

[Adamas102]

The book is very inclusive because any person can identify with the character without superfluous reasons.

So yeah, you're definitely confusing "accessibility" with "inclusivity". Those are two different things and you can definitely have the first without the second.

Accessibility means the work is able to appeal to a wide audience of varying backgrounds. Inclusivity has to do with whether the work itself portrays a wide range of characters across the spectrum of age, sex, skin color, etc.

The Hobbit literally has zero female characters of note. Tolkien's genealogies don't even bother to name most of the wives and daughters of referenced male characters. You yourself have even vocally opposed the War of the Rohirrim having ANY focus on Helm's daughter who Tolkien didn't even feel deserved a name despite being central to the marriage proposal that launched the war. And of course there's Tolkien's problematic portrayal of dark skinned people (even if he himself wasn't a virulent racist, his works very much excluded them from any meaningful representation).

Also, no one has said that adaptations of old works NEED more inclusivity. That's an argument that you're just making up in order for you to argue that adding inclusivity is bad. Yeah, Amazon could have adapted the show only hiring white actors for all of the human, elf, and dwarf roles and that would have been a legitimate choice as far as I'm concerned. However, having non-white actors in those various roles is a positive with zero negatives. Arondir is just an elf, Disa is just a dwarf, and Miriel is just a Numenorean. None of those castings change the story, and the only people complaining about it are racists who either demand an explanation for the mere existence of non-white people or simply tell them to stick to their own stories.

Same way work from authors in different places are a product that reflect their own upbringing, shocking.

It seems like you're so shocked by the notion that works from almost a century ago, when racial prejudice/segregation and more conservative views on women were a lot more prevalent, could possibly lack inclusivity.

Not rly, you respect the source by not fucking with the work, like making Elrond kiss his mother-in-law or force a ship with her and sauron

Thats disgusting and sick to his memory.

"Not fucking with the work". Cool. Another completely pointless and juvenile phrase that means absolutely nothing.

Galadriel is NOT Elrond's mother-in-law, and the kiss was literally a ruse to pass off the item that she used to escape. There's also no forced ship between her and Sauron. Why wouldn't Sauron try to seduce one of the most powerful elves to his side? There's absolutely nothing out of character with him trying that, and her having the strength to deny him is very much in character as well. Just two great examples of your utter and complete lack of critical thought when discussing pretty much anything.

If it did, more would be fine with it and would make actual success, you know, like the hobbit trilogy

No one cares whether you like it or not. As has been said to you before, not everything is made for you (even adaptations based on things that you like). The show is still being watched by A LOT of people, and almost all of the negativity comes from immature kids like yourself who can't even properly articulate one issue with the show or from purists who can't get their heads out of their asses to understand what an adaptation is. Just as Christopher Tolkien's disdain for the movies made no difference to the fact that they were good movies, the disdain of random online purists makes no difference either.

[rogoth]

Yeah, it's called adaptation. There's no rule that an adaptation needs to stick to the source material as closely as possible (especially in this case when the source material as little more than notes and lists). You're also straight up wrong. Almost all of the main plot points that were laid out in the appendices and Silmarillion for these events are present. It's just the details that connect them that are being fleshed out and expanded upon. Stop pretending like Tolkien left behind a well written narrative for this stuff. He didn't.

The beloved movies weren't Tolkien's vision either. They were the vision and interpretation of Peter Jackson, Fran Walsh, and Philippa Boyens who took inspiration from the books and made dozens upon dozens of changes to present something that they thought was better suited for a modern cinema audience. Tolkien would have absolutely HATED those movies. Gimli relegated to little more than comic relief, the changes to Aragorn's core motivations, the omission of the Scouring, the character assassination of Denethor and Boromir, and the over reliance on action and violence just to name the more egregious deviations. But you know what? That's irrelevant because the movies weren't made to make Tolkien happy. They were made for movie audiences to enjoy and they succeeded magnificently. There are plenty of other adaptations that strayed quite a bit from the source material and yet still made for good (or at least enjoyable) movies.

Now, the show is certainly no where near the level of the movies, but it's still decent television and it appeals to a broad audience which includes fans of the books and the movies. The fact that it deviates from the source material isn't an issue in and of itself. In fact, things like condensing the timeline of events were GOOD changes for adapting the story to screen format. YOU are absolutely free to dislike the show, but that doesn't make it a "bad" show.



Really? You're curious about that? You saw all the rhetoric early on about how dark skinned elves or hobbits or dwarves don't belong in Middle Earth and you wonder why people argue that it wasn't originally very inclusive? You think just because Lovecraft's writings were popular before means that it hasn't benefited greatly from the increased inclusivity of modern works inspired inspired by them?

yes really, last time I checked, there were dozens of tribes of Harondor and Haradwaith that would have given them PLENTY of black and olive-skinned representation, or the Easterlings of Khand that would have given them Asian representation, but of course that won't sell a TV show or movie, so instead of using the tools at their disposal to make characters that work within the lore of the universe they have bastardised beyond all recognition, they took established characters, rewrote them to the complete antithesis of their established lore characterisations, they then had the sheer fucking audacity and hubris to think themselves better than the source material heralded as the creation of modern fantasy, and thought they would be able to tell a proper story in this universe.

it's already been argued ad nauseum why the 'dwarf of colour' and 'elf of colour' are fundamentally wrong in this setting and do not belong anywhere near this material, yet here we are with Amazon mandating their boxes be ticked off to make sure they cover their social credit score bases.

and if that wasn't bad enough, the established characters that already existed were so badly rewritten and changed that they may as well be brand new characters that just happen to have the same names, and just to make this abundantly clear to you, since you're clearly ignorant of this fact, but for something to be considered an 'adaptation' there needs to be a majority of the original work represented with a minority portion made up of newly written content, this show fails to meet that VERY BASIC level, meaning this is more of a 'based on' show than an adaptation, so can you and the rest of the alphabet mafia and white knight brigade stop calling it something it isn't, it's disingenuous.

[Syegfryed]

So yeah, you're definitely confusing "accessibility" with "inclusivity". Those are two different things and you can definitely have the first without the second.

You think what you want buddy, tis very clear we are not going to agree here, i at least can speak for myself as a latino black man that i see lord of the rings as inclusive enough, because what it matters is beyond what you think

The Hobbit literally has zero female characters of note. Tolkien's genealogies don't even bother to name most of the wives and daughters of referenced male characters.

Yet, any woman can be a fan and identify with other characters, they don't need to be women as well.

It seems like you're so shocked by the notion that works from almost a century ago, when racial prejudice/segregation

you may think Tolkien was a racist who deliberate chose segregation in his books, other people with some noodles can see he wrote what he knew and experienced in his life and in the war.

Especially when he tried to make a mythology for england, who, was not rly diverse in that time, as he mention people with other ethnic groups in his works, that, surprise, are neglected by the inclusive media.

"Not fucking with the work". Cool. Another completely pointless and juvenile phrase that means absolutely nothing.

If it doesn't mean nothing to you maybe you are the one with juvenile thinking?

Galadriel is NOT Elrond's mother-in-law, and the kiss was literally a ruse to pass off the item that she used to escape.

She is in the canon, and it will be if they continue the story.

A fucking ruse that could have being handled in any other way like DAMN HUG, they knew exactly what where they were going with this, it was a deliberate perverted choice to make a game of thrones attempt and give ammunition to twitter weirdos who like ship

This, right there, is what fucking with his work means, you make something The author would never do, and do because you are a hack. If you still can't grasp, the problem is with you.

There's also no forced ship between her and Sauron

There is, don't be delusional

Why wouldn't Sauron try to seduce one of the most powerful elves to his side?

Why she would even fall for that when she is MARRIED, and she already was suspicious of him in the first place? even know it makes no godamn sense since she already know who he is.

Again, another example of fucking with tolkien work, by making something worse.

Just two great examples of your utter and complete lack of critical thought

Rich coming from you, the one defending this garbage of a show with no sequiturs, since the best you can do is say how Tolkien would not like the movies either.

No one cares whether you like it or not.

No one cares whether you like or not either, drop from that high horse

As has been said to you before, not everything is made for you

Doesn't mean it still not garbage

The show is still being watched by A LOT of people

And way less people than season 1 and other shows with less power behind IP

and almost all of the negativity comes from immature kids like yourself who can't even properly articulate one issue with the show or from purists who can't get their heads out of their asses to understand what an adaptation is.

And all the positivity comes from immature kids like yourself who cant even properly articulate a defense to the show either without crying for the movies who did absolutely much better with less budget and became a classic for generations.

You talk shit about head out of their asses but you are here thinking you are above all, like you know more, while, again, not a single proper defense to this show or cite anything good that isn't "well they condescended the timeline" like that is much of a praise when they fuck over the timeline as well with the the order of the rings, because the goobers tough themselves clever for using the poem.

Again, i could watch season 2, and rip a new asshole to the show like i did to season 1, but is pointless since you would ignore it and dismiss acting pedant like right now

Honestly, only rhole and some members of council actually care to defend the show for a bit, but even most of then gave up by how utterly retarded season 1 was, i think it was around episode the ship exploding by wine and 300 horses, 300 humans and supplies fitting in 3 small ships

But hey, if you turn off your brain and watch while scrolling instagram/twitter - which is the target audience - sure the show might look like decent.

[rhorle]

Honestly, only rhole and some members of council actually care to defend the show for a bit, but even most of then gave up by how utterly retarded season 1 was, i think it was around episode the ship exploding by wine and 300 horses, 300 humans and supplies fitting in 3 small ships

Just because people don't engage with you doesn't mean they no longer think the show is good. It just means they are not engaging with you. You really care more about hate then the content. Not watching Season 2 and the Agatha thread make this quite clear.

[Syegfryed]

Just because people don't engage with you doesn't mean they no longer think the show is good. It just means they are not engaging with you.

Or because they can't defend some of the show bullshit and they hide to save face

Cause people are eager to engage and bitch about anything, even defend shit of other shows, be with me or someone else

You really care more about hate then the content. Not watching Season 2 and the Agatha thread make this quite clear.

No, i did gave seaon 1 a chance, and only got shit content, so its guns out now

Agatha i don't care, its another bad disney show nOt MaDe FoR yOu bs, so no one rly care.

[DingDongKing]

Or because they can't defend some of the show bullshit and they hide to save face

Cause people are eager to engage and bitch about anything, even defend shit of other shows, be with me or someone else



No, i did gave seaon 1 a chance, and only got shit content, so its guns out now

Agatha i don't care, its another bad disney show nOt MaDe FoR yOu bs, so no one rly care.

I would assume most people have you on ignore.

I do. I just take a peek now and then to giggle.

[Witchblade77]

I would assume most people have you on ignore.

I do. I just take a peek now and then to giggle.

this basically. only time I see his comments is when they are quoted by someone else.

[bledgor]

Elrond kissed his mother-in-law? Ugh for the love of god if they even fucking have him settle for Celebrian since he couldn't be with Galadriel it will prove without a doubt that the two chuckle fucks should never be allowed to do a job more creative than mopping a floor, least then they would be doing something of value.

I though season 1 was approaching rock bottom in lore desecration, but they find new ways to fuck it all up. I've also been told they have repurposed so much dialogue from the trilogy into conversations they never should have been uttered in.

[rogoth]

Elrond kissed his mother-in-law? Ugh for the love of god if they even fucking have him settle for Celebrian since he couldn't be with Galadriel it will prove without a doubt that the two chuckle fucks should never be allowed to do a job more creative than mopping a floor, least then they would be doing something of value.

I thought season 1 was approaching rock bottom in lore desecration, but they found new ways to fuck it all up. I've also been told they have repurposed so much dialogue from the trilogy into conversations they never should have been uttered in.

it seems so far that the vast majority of the dialogue of this season is repurposed lines from the PJ films used as member berries and trying to get people to watch through nostalgia, but it's so badly written into the scenes it just comes across as comical, it's like in season 1 when 'gandalf not gandalf' said to female frodo 'when in doubt follow your nose' a literal rip from the fellowship of the ring during the mines of moria sequence.

there's dozens of new examples but you get the idea, it's a creatively bankrupt, utter bastardization of a project that is at this point in time just a medium for money laundering because I'm genuinely unsure how you can spend $450m for a season, and have it be this terrible.

[Ebonn]

See this is the type of comment that makes the people who whinge about the show lose all validity. Like have you never seen... Television??
Let me start with the two largest shows of the last couple decades. Game of thrones season 6 ring a bell? Having the dragons arrive from a continent away just in time. Or having one guy running the distance that previously shown to take days in a matter of minutes. Those exemples of teleporting became a running jokes for months and even years.
What about the Walking dead? Another huge show. After spending seasons of walking and labouriously travelling around country the producers seemed drop all of that in favour of characters to just simply arrive at locations. There are memes still today and the teleporting zombie has become a running joke.
I could go back further, to lost, or Jack Bauer always arriving just in time, or Xena of nearly any action show in existence. Its a thing.
Picking it out of this show, irrelevant to the plot, and barely noticable, just seems so small and petty. Its hard to take further cricticisms seriously.

Anyways, to this weeks episode.
The Numenor plot seems the weakest by far, but I think its there because of the Captain guy is actually Aragons ancestor? Correct me if Im wrong. Im still really impressed by the entire design of the dwarves and harfoots. I don't there has been a better visual interpretation of these fictional races on media before. Again, correct me if im wrong, as a fan of fantasy, i would very much like to see if theres better out there.
As usual, a decent hour of tv, not the best, not nowhere near the worst.

Lol omg this comment is so funny. You’re coming after someone because they lack common sense, but you’re completely misunderstanding the point you’re using to prove him wrong, so it actually just helps his point more. Haha. That’s fun. There was no teleporting in those GoT episodes you’re referencing, you just missed all the context clues that were there to show how much time elapsed. Hahaha. Oh it’s so funny because so many people say that, missing all the blatantly obvious visual and verbal cues that were deliberately placed to show how much time elapsed. I’m still chuckling. Thank you for that.

[rhorle]

Lol omg this comment is so funny. You’re coming after someone because they lack common sense, but you’re completely misunderstanding the point you’re using to prove him wrong, so it actually just helps his point more. Haha. That’s fun. There was no teleporting in those GoT episodes you’re referencing, you just missed all the context clues that were there to show how much time elapsed. Hahaha. Oh it’s so funny because so many people say that, missing all the blatantly obvious visual and verbal cues that were deliberately placed to show how much time elapsed. I’m still chuckling. Thank you for that.

https://screenrant.com/game-of-thron...me-varys-arya/

A common complaint was that Season 6 had characters teleporting around.

[Syegfryed]

I would assume most people have you on ignore.

Might be the case, but its just me say something about a shit show they all flock in, its amazing, cause y'al cant contain themselves

- - - Updated - - -

I though season 1 was approaching rock bottom in lore desecration, but they find new ways to fuck it all up. I've also been told they have repurposed so much dialogue from the trilogy into conversations they never should have been uttered in.

Not just from the trillogy

Apparently they rip-off a matrix scene as well, when Neo see the error in the matrix witht he black cat

But this is TOTALLY different cause Celebrimbor see a white mouse

[Adamas102]

You think what you want buddy, tis very clear we are not going to agree here, i at least can speak for myself as a latino black man that i see lord of the rings as inclusive enough, because what it matters is beyond what you think

It's not a matter of opinion. You literally can't wrap your head around the fact that words have definitions.

Yet, any woman can be a fan and identify with other characters, they don't need to be women as well

Again, you can't seem to understand the definition of the words "accessible" vs "inclusive".

you may think Tolkien was a racist who deliberate chose segregation in his books, other people with some noodles can see he wrote what he knew and experienced in his life and in the war.

Try to use your noodle then and understand that the point is that an adaptation doesn't need to adhere to whatever biases the original author may have had. You also need to work on your reading comprehension since I specifically said that Tolkien was NOT a racist, but that might be too much to expect from you.

Especially when he tried to make a mythology for england, who, was not rly diverse in that time, as he mention people with other ethnic groups in his works, that, surprise, are neglected by the inclusive media.

The whole "mythology for England" is EXACTLY why the increased inclusivity is a good thing. Most of these actors are ENGLISH. This completely fictional story is as much for them as for any white Englishman.

If it doesn't mean nothing to you maybe you are the one with juvenile thinking?

That's gotta be one of the dumbest "no u" responses I've seen from you...

She is in the canon, and it will be if they continue the story.

She's not right now which is what matters for a scene that happens right now. The canon obviously isn't relevant here.

A fucking ruse that could have being handled in any other way like DAMN HUG, they knew exactly what where they were going with this, it was a deliberate perverted choice to make a game of thrones attempt and give ammunition to twitter weirdos who like ship

This is just YOU being weird about something that isn't weird in the setting. Elrond isn't married and while I do think Celeborn will be introduced later, at this time Galadriel is under the impression that he is dead. Nothing weird about the relationship that these characters have right now.

There is, don't be delusional

Galadriel denied Sauron's offer immediately. You're 100% wrong. Don't be delusional.

Why she would even fall for that when she is MARRIED, and she already was suspicious of him in the first place? even know it makes no godamn sense since she already know who he is.

Since your attention span is that of a goldfish, I'll say again that at this point in the story she thinks her husband is dead. And yeah, he doesn't fall for it, but the question was why would Sauron NOT try?

Rich coming from you, the one defending this garbage of a show with no sequiturs, since the best you can do is say how Tolkien would not like the movies either.

It's not a non sequitur since most of your failed arguments revolve around "it's not respecting the source material" while not applying the same critiques to the movies which would have evoked a similar response from the author of the source material. It's directly addressing your double standards.

No one cares whether you like or not either, drop from that high horse

Never said anyone should care about whether I like the show or not. I haven't even talked about whether or not I like the show. In your overly simplistic mind you seem to think that if I'm not constantly going out of my way to shit on the show then it must be my favorite thing ever. It's an extraordinarily childish mindset.

And way less people than season 1 and other shows with less power behind IP

Doesn't fucking matter. It's not a zero sum game.

And all the positivity comes from immature kids like yourself who cant even properly articulate a defense to the show either without crying for the movies who did absolutely much better with less budget and became a classic for generations.

Literally just explained to you TWICE why two scenes that you picked out work within the narrative, but you're too much a baby to see past the "but, but, but... that's not how it is in the books".

You talk shit about head out of their asses but you are here thinking you are above all, like you know more, while, again, not a single proper defense to this show or cite anything good that isn't "well they condescended the timeline" like that is much of a praise when they fuck over the timeline as well with the the order of the rings, because the goobers tough themselves clever for using the poem.

Oh, you want a list of things that I think the show is doing well?

- The production in terms of sets, costumes, and CGI is very high. Could they achieve that without spending as much money as they have? Perhaps, but I'm not their accountant and either way many of the set pieces (especially in s2) have been pretty impressive
- Most of the dwarven storyline. Even some folks who incessantly complain still admit positive things about that part of the show
- Peter Mullan as Durin III. Recently finished Ozark so happy to see him again
- I think it's interesting how they've been fleshing out a lot of the stuff that Tolkien didn't go into detail on, such as the Pharazon's rise to power and the wizards in the East. Even if some choices aren't the ones I would make, I have no problem seeing what the showrunners come up with for these sorts of things
- The way Sauron's deception of Celebrimbor was depicted in episodes 6 and 7 (even though I thought it was a bit clunky in earlier episodes)
- Adar. I was a bit disappointed when Mawle was recast, but the new actor has grown on me over the past few episodes. The completely irrelevant orc baby was whatever, but overall I think the added depth that the Adar/Moriondor storyline gives the orcs is interesting

You mention the change to the order the rings were made and I'll tell you why they made the correct decision here.

The timeline in the books goes as follows; Sauron/Annatar arrives in Eregion after the High King, Galadriel, and Elrond determine he's too sketchy to chat with, he spends 300 years just teaching, at some point over the next 90 years the 16 Rings of Power are made and then Sauron just... leaves, meanwhile Celebrimbor decides to make 3 more rings by himself, and ten years later Sauron completes the One Ring.

First off, while the timeline is epic in terms of scale it is absurd in terms of dramatic narrative. Montages have a place, but relegating the forging of the Rings of Power to a montage would be laughable. Secondly, once Sauron leaves Eregion and Celebrimbor is just alone making rings the narrative tension is gone. He's not aware of the big picture, he's literally just enjoying his hobby. It also doesn't make sense for him to craft the rings in secret while Annatar is in Eregion because he has no reason to keep such a thing from the one who has been teaching them all along. So that's why shifting the forging of the Three to the beginning was a perfectly good decision for doing a dramatic adaptation.

Again, i could watch season 2, and rip a new asshole to the show like i did to season 1, but is pointless since you would ignore it and dismiss acting pedant like right now

Haha, the only asshole being ripped is your own with how far you're shoving your head up there. But go on. Let's see what you've got. I remember literally explaining to you a scene back in s1 line by line because you said it didn't make sense, and even after pointing out what each word and gesture meant/referenced your response was "no that's dumb, it doesn't make sense".

[VMSmith]

Personally, I'd give up the Jackson movies and this show in a heartbeat if it meant changing time to get Bakshi to finish his films. The 1978 film is still the best adaptation of Tolkien to film ever done.

[Adamas102]

yes really, last time I checked, there were dozens of tribes of Harondor and Haradwaith that would have given them PLENTY of black and olive-skinned representation, or the Easterlings of Khand that would have given them Asian representation

This is basically the "they should stick with their own X, this one is for whites only" argument. Needless to say, I think there is a HUGE issue with that argument.

they took established characters, rewrote them to the complete antithesis of their established lore characterisations

Are you saying that simply changing the melanin of a character's skin makes them the antithesis of a the light skinned version?

it's already been argued ad nauseum why the 'dwarf of colour' and 'elf of colour' are fundamentally wrong in this setting and do not belong anywhere near this material

There have been ZERO legitimate arguments as to why dark skinned actors cannot play dwarves or elves in an adaptation of the story. In fact, one of the best arguments in favor of the change is Tolkien's intent to frame the legendarium as a mythology for England. While in his mind that might have been a predominately white England, the reality today is that English people come in a variety of skin colors. This wonderfully imaginative world is as much theirs, and that's why relegating their presence to "the folks way down south that have almost nothing to do with the primary narrative of the setting" is ridiculous.

for something to be considered an 'adaptation' there needs to be a majority of the original work represented with a minority portion made up of newly written content

That's not true at all. You ever heard of a guy called Shakespeare? You ever check out any of the adaptations of his works? Just because you set Romeo and Juliet in modern day America with mafia families, guns, and include Latin American and African American actors doesn't made it not an adaptation of Romeo and Juliet. Setting Coriolanus in the modern day Balkans instead of ancient Rome doesn't make it not an adaptation of Shakespeare's play. Similarly, completely changing the entire ending (and in doing so the entire theme of the story) of I Am Legend doesn't mean the movie wasn't an adaptation of the novel.

This idea that adaptation has to abide by some arbitrary rule of what can and cannot change is a complete fabrication made up by people who just didn't enjoy a particular adaptation.

As for RoP specifically, the basic narrative outlined by Tolkien is very much there. Almost all of the main characters and locations are present. Most of the work the show is doing is simply fleshing out the details that bridge the events and making changes to better suit a more dramatic medium.

[Orby]

Personally, I'd give up the Jackson movies and this show in a heartbeat if it meant changing time to get Bakshi to finish his films. The 1978 film is still the best adaptation of Tolkien to film ever done.

I will die on this hill that John Hurts Aragorn is the best adaptation. This man you can believe is a king.

The movie is great in some aspects, there are some laugh out loud silliness, Sam in this is just annoying as all hell though, but I loved some interesting visuals, also we need to talk about why no one talks like this in films anymore.




Man I wish all movies would go back to having people talk like this, especially in fantasy... Everyone speaks so modern now or when they try and speak like this it sounds like it was done by AI, I am not sure you can mimic it sadly. Like we need this way of talking in fantasy back xD

Just listen to Borimir at 0:20.