Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[rhorle]

I laughed at Sauron shooting arrows at a defeated Celebrimbor. It was so comically petty, it didn't strike me as something a Maiar would do.

Gandalf tells Frodo that Sauron will be petty if he gets a chance. Also, he wiped out the Numenoreans for petty revenge.

Gandalf to Frodo (p.62.): “It would be a grievous blow to the world, if the Dark Power overcame the Shire; if all your kind, jolly, stupid Bolgers, Hornblowers…, and the rest, not to mention the ridiculous Baggineses, became enslaved." Frodo shuddered. “But why should we be?” he asked. “And why should he want such slaves?” “… He does not need you – he has many more useful servants – but he won’t forget you again. And hobbits as miserable slaves would please him far more than hobbits happy and free. There is such a thing as malice and revenge!”

Gandalf to Frodo (p.238.): “You would have become a wraith under the dominion of the Dark Lord; and he would have tormented you for trying to keep his Ring, if any greater torment were possible than being robbed of it and seeing it on his hand.”

Tolkien’s 1958 essay: But though Sauron’s whole true motive was the destruction of the Númenóreans, this was a particular matter of revenge upon Ar-Pharazon, for humiliation. Sauron (unlike Morgoth) would have been content for the Númenóreans to exist, as his own subjects, and indeed he used a great many of them that he corrupted to his allegiance.

[Triceron]

They are not required to say they are taking x number of ships, the could mention how many battleships they are bringing but what about support and supply ships, you are completely ignoring the logistics of moving an army no matter what size, show me where in the show they said they are only bringing 3 single ships in total.

That's the problem though. There are only 3 ships shown the entire time. The show presents only 3 ships to the audience.

If you're implying that there are more ships than what we see, then it is the responsibility of the show to present that to the audience. Film is a visual medium, and if it what's being told to us doesn't match up with what we're seeing, then it becomes a problem.

The argument here is that there's no good reason why they didn't show more than 3 ships to carry the amount of troops and supplies they are talking about. The ships themselves are CG. They can make as many as they wanted to, they have full creative control over that. There's no story limit, there's no budgetary limit. It was just a poorly planned scenario. Honestly, not worth defending, because it simply doesn't make sense. If they intended more ships to be used, then it needs to be presented unambiguously.

[kenn9530]

They indeed are required, but that is what a good show would do


They could

But they didn't

That is the show being bad not making worldbuilding


No, the show is ignoring, not me, im literally pointing how they ignored


The series SHOW only 3 ships, and does not mention any other

then it is what it is.


Uou still cannot wrap your head around the fact that the problem is how the mountain is WAAAy too far to be reached, and if a catapult can reach that, the massive sheer force can blow hole trough anything

Its basically impossible to do that, dam the tiver and immediately attack the city



Yeah, the show is rly bad and the scenes are not show in any common logic, you almost got it right, but you think is a feature instead

The show is terrible at it, compare to the movies and any person can see the difference

They are not required at all to mention the exact number of ships they would be using its pointless information, its just basic common sense they would use as many as needed to transport and supply an army of a certain size.

No you personally are ignoring the simple reality that not everything happens at the same time in a tv show/movie, do you want what little time there is showing them traveling in a tv show wasting more important things that could be there instead.

It doesnt matter how many ships they show, that is just for visuals its not always going to be thats all we are sending.

You obviously did not watch the show if you think the mountain is far away, it is no further than other points they were hitting in the city, the catapults shifted to the left to hit the mountain, the catapults were already hitting the mountain behind the city, the other one is to the left of the city, the whole tree line is filled with catapults so plenty of them are in range.

All shows that involve significant distances do the same thing, we don't need to know wasteful details on the journey for every trip they do, just traveling to the dwarf city from eregion is likely to be a week long round trip at least, are you wanting a whole tv series dedicated to watching the long journeys. The movies are showing a year long trip in 3 films, gandalfs journey to research the ring and come back to the shire was many months or even years, the movies just skipped past significant areas where lots of time would of passed.

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That's the problem though. There are only 3 ships shown the entire time. The show presents only 3 ships to the audience.

If you're implying that there are more ships than what we see, then it is the responsibility of the show to present that to the audience. Film is a visual medium, and if it what's being told to us doesn't match up with what we're seeing, then it becomes a problem.

The argument here is that there's no good reason why they didn't show more than 3 ships to carry the amount of troops and supplies they are talking about. The ships themselves are CG. They can make as many as they wanted to, they have full creative control over that. There's no story limit, there's no budgetary limit. It was just a poorly planned scenario. Honestly, not worth defending, because it simply doesn't make sense. If they intended more ships to be used, then it needs to be presented unambiguously.

Showing 3 ships does not mean only those 3 ships were sent, that is just basic common sense to realise other things happen in the background that is involved in moving any size of army, this thing is skipped in most tv shows/ movies because its simple a waste of time explaining it in most scenarios.

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So which of the showrunners are you? Or do you share the account? Because geezus f. christ... the stupidity you are defending is very clearly evident for anyone with eyes and a minimal knowledge of physics. But I guess as long as people like you exist Bezos and his slaves can just keep going on with this shitshow and make money. Good work!
Why have quality if stupid people clap for idiot shows.

The show is great, its what i expected it to be a story based around events and characters of lord of the rings nothing more.

[Kumorii]

Episode was kind of meh imo...
Everything that happened was what you already thought would happen. Only really looked forward to seeing the Balrog VFX, since the VFX has been mostly stellar in the show.
On the contrast the fight between Sauron and Galadriel looked very low budget.

When it comes to Arondir. I must admit they got me. I thought he would either die or do a fakeout but they did neither.... they just straight up ignore his state in the episode prior. I guess he got an healing potion of-screen they didn't need to show to you. Common sense.

I wonder if Season 3 will spend all it's episodes to hint at Not-Gandalfs name without saying it...

[uopayroll]

That's the problem though. There are only 3 ships shown the entire time. The show presents only 3 ships to the audience.

If you're implying that there are more ships than what we see, then it is the responsibility of the show to present that to the audience. Film is a visual medium, and if it what's being told to us doesn't match up with what we're seeing, then it becomes a problem.

The argument here is that there's no good reason why they didn't show more than 3 ships to carry the amount of troops and supplies they are talking about. The ships themselves are CG. They can make as many as they wanted to, they have full creative control over that. There's no story limit, there's no budgetary limit. It was just a poorly planned scenario. Honestly, not worth defending, because it simply doesn't make sense. If they intended more ships to be used, then it needs to be presented unambiguously.

This has been a fun read, but if you are saying the large army made it impossible for only the three ships they showed, than is not that huge army their way of implying more than three ships went?

I am all for ten minutes of ship after ship after ship, then 6 months of episodes where all they do is ride the ship, all so that the show is real time, but....

[Kumorii]

I am all for ten minutes of ship after ship after ship, then 6 months of episodes where all they do is ride the ship, all so that the show is real time, but....

Use a wide shot and show a lot of them at once? Takes the same amount of time as showing 3 ships.

[rogoth]

Use a wide shot and show a lot of them at once? Takes the same amount of time as showing 3 ships.

the technology isn't there yet - meme circa early 2000's

[Kumorii]

the technology isn't there yet - meme circa early 2000's

Maybe the writers thought they had to show every single ship one by one for this reason.

[rhorle]

Use a wide shot and show a lot of them at once? Takes the same amount of time as showing 3 ships.

Didn't the peter Jackson films only show two or three ships with Aragorn when he had a fleet of 50 or so in the books. Though I think the movies only have him bringing the ghosts and not the men he freed/rallied. Sure, Rings of Power could have easily done a shot of an entire battle group while emphasizing three command ships but it feels like a small thing.

Small things can add up but not much about the scenes would change if they had shown more ships.

[DarkAmbient]

Gandalf tells Frodo that Sauron will be petty if he gets a chance. Also, he wiped out the Numenoreans for petty revenge.

Gandalf to Frodo (p.62.): “It would be a grievous blow to the world, if the Dark Power overcame the Shire; if all your kind, jolly, stupid Bolgers, Hornblowers…, and the rest, not to mention the ridiculous Baggineses, became enslaved." Frodo shuddered. “But why should we be?” he asked. “And why should he want such slaves?” “… He does not need you – he has many more useful servants – but he won’t forget you again. And hobbits as miserable slaves would please him far more than hobbits happy and free. There is such a thing as malice and revenge!”

Gandalf to Frodo (p.238.): “You would have become a wraith under the dominion of the Dark Lord; and he would have tormented you for trying to keep his Ring, if any greater torment were possible than being robbed of it and seeing it on his hand.”

Tolkien’s 1958 essay: But though Sauron’s whole true motive was the destruction of the Númenóreans, this was a particular matter of revenge upon Ar-Pharazon, for humiliation. Sauron (unlike Morgoth) would have been content for the Númenóreans to exist, as his own subjects, and indeed he used a great many of them that he corrupted to his allegiance.

We know Sauron likes to do bad things. But a being like him tends to do them at scale. Petty for him is to enslave a race purely for the fun of making them miserable, or turning someone into a wraith and tormenting them for eternity because they displeased him. But seeing him take pot shots with a bow at Celebrimbor was funny, and was the sort of pettiness usually displayed by much lesser beings.

[Raisei]

The show is great, its what i expected it to be a story based around events and characters of lord of the rings nothing more.

Less power to you then, if you find this in any way acceptable. Even if I had not seen the Jackson movies and the novels, I can still see all the flaws in base logic, the infinite contrivance and complete handwaving of character motivations.

A show with a 1 billion dollar price tag should very much do better then this and with better writers it would have done. What we were given is a joke.

Just tell me one thing: How is it acceptable that Galadriel falls several 100 meters and does not have so much as a hematoma? How are Poppy and Nori completely unharmed after being blown away by a Tornado that expressly KILLED two fully grown warriors? How does Estrid tank a blow from a friggin Ent that throws her against a rock?

Marina or whatever she was called fell a few meter from a wall and was heavily wounded but Galadriel is barely scratched. How does this make sense in any world where logic exists?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

We know Sauron likes to do bad things. But a being like him tends to do them at scale. Petty for him is to enslave a race purely for the fun of making them miserable, or turning someone into a wraith and tormenting them for eternity because they displeased him. But seeing him take pot shots with a bow at Celebrimbor was funny, and was the sort of pettiness usually displayed by much lesser beings.

I mean he’s the same guy who sent abunch of werewolf’s to kill a dog and when he failed turned into one to not be shown up threw hands and got his ass kicked.

If a dark lord (lieutenant at the time) is petty enough to fight a literally dog pot shots doesn’t seem out of the question.

[Triceron]

This has been a fun read, but if you are saying the large army made it impossible for only the three ships they showed, than is not that huge army their way of implying more than three ships went?

I am all for ten minutes of ship after ship after ship, then 6 months of episodes where all they do is ride the ship, all so that the show is real time, but....

Basic film making 101. Show. Don't tell.

The show tells us the numbers of troops that are going to be sent to the Southlands. What we're presented with visually doesn't match to transport the numbers we were told, and was completely unclear to whether they ended up sending less troops, or if they managed to replace the ships that were sabotaged right before they left. All we're shown is 3 ships leaving, and later on, a very large army appearing in the Southlands.

A single establishing shot of a fleet of ships disembarked on the trip would have sufficed. If not, just more ships in the bay at the time before they left. They don't need to focus on ship after ship leaving, they just need to show that there are more than 3 ships that were prepped to leave (not counting the ones that were sabotaged).


And no, I didn't say it was impossible for it to just be the 3 ships showed. I'm saying that what the filmmakers presented to us was mired with ambiguity and did not line up with the narrative they wanted to tell. This is not a situation where imagination and suspension of disbelief would help 'fill in the blanks'. This is something that they should clearly show, because the entire focus of the narrative was on transporting a large army overseas, which also involved a sabotage subplot. If the sabotaged ships didn't impact transporting hundreds of troops over seas on the remaining 3 ships, or if you're intended to 'imagine' that they had a fleet of ships waiting offscreen, then it renders the whole sabotage subplot pointless.

This is why imagination and implication doesn't really work in this specific case. We should have been shown the results of whether the sabotage actually impacted them or not. In this case, they completely skipped over it and left it unresolved. What we are shown is the full army being transported on 3 ships alone.

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Showing 3 ships does not mean only those 3 ships were sent, that is just basic common sense to realise other things happen in the background that is involved in moving any size of army, this thing is skipped in most tv shows/ movies because its simple a waste of time explaining it in most scenarios.

Then the entire sabotage subplot is more of a waste of time, since it would not have impacted their transport at all. Even if they had no ships, you could use your imagination to fill in the blanks to say a thousand giant eagles came to ferry them across the seas. Anything can be magically resolved by imagination. It doesn't mean it's a good answer. Unrealistic bullshit will get called out, and this is one of those very cases.

[Syegfryed]

A couple of Harfoots call the forgetful wizard "grand elf" - you'll never guess how that later influences his choice of name for himself!

they must be thinking they are freaking Geniuses for coming up with a origin story for the name of gandalf, and are probably grooming themselves thinking how clever it was to make the "Grand elf" -> Gandalf correlation

Its honestly baffling this is the level of writing in a show that cost this much and have this big IP

Galadriel survives a 100+ ft drop off a cliff. Impressive.

Its not the most unreal shit she did so far

Surviving a cataclysmic eruption of mount doom and swimming from valinor to middle earth still top on that.

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They are not required at all to mention the exact number of ships they would be using its pointless information, its just basic common sense they would use as many as needed to transport and supply an army of a certain size.

they are required to do that, because they are telling a story

You do not get to write the show for themselves, they do not get to NOT write shit just because some people have their brain shut down while watching to not notice their clear mistakes.

No you personally are ignoring the simple reality that not everything happens at the same time in a tv show/movie,

You are ignoring the reality that, all the time this happens, it is explained/told/show in the series

When it doesn't, it is because the show is garbage.

Showing 3 ships does not mean only those 3 ships were sent,

It is, because its literally the only reference and proof

Youa re the one saying they send more, you made that up to fill the plothole the writers left

A good show would have said they would be sending 100 ships, a even better show would actually show 100 ships sailling

[DarkAmbient]

I mean he’s the same guy who sent abunch of werewolf’s to kill a dog and when he failed turned into one to not be shown up threw hands and got his ass kicked.

If a dark lord (lieutenant at the time) is petty enough to fight a literally dog pot shots doesn’t seem out of the question.

I think you're underselling the immortal hound of Valinor a little bit by calling him a dog, hehe.

[Syegfryed]

When it comes to Arondir. I must admit they got me. I thought he would either die or do a fakeout but they did neither.... they just straight up ignore his state in the episode prior. I guess he got an healing potion of-screen they didn't need to show to you. Common sense.
..

They already killed a diverse elf in previous episode, there is no way they would kill him as well - and the elf who died once again stealing from the movies, stealing Boromir arrow scene and trying to make a relation with helms deep while the orc sacrifice himself to explode the wall

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I think you're underselling the immortal hound of Valinor a little bit by calling him a dog, hehe.

You have a point, he is a very good boy after all.

[ringpriest]

My thoughts after just finishing the finale.
I'm not the biggest fan of characters sacrificing themselves for nothing but damn that that entire opening scene looked so good.
Props again to the costumes and arts departments.
Not sure if "heal yourself" had quite the emotional impact they want but alas.
It's a real shame, I don't think we will see a conclusion to this. The ratings are good but maybe just not high enough to justify the budget. Trolls and haters did so much damage to the shows chances before it even began. As someone who enjoys fantasy, it wasn't perfect but it was a nice escape and decent genre shows are few and far between these days. And I'll say it again, it sure looked beautiful.

You misspelled 'showrunners'.

[Syegfryed]

You misspelled 'showrunners'.

The classic blame the audience when you make something bad

[rhorle]

they must be thinking they are freaking Geniuses for coming up with a origin story for the name of gandalf, and are probably grooming themselves thinking how clever it was to make the "Grand elf" -> Gandalf correlation

Tolkien took the name from a Norse word for "Staff Elf".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gandalf#Etymology

Tolkien derived the name Gandalf from Gandálfr, a dwarf in the Völuspá's Dvergatal, a list of dwarf-names. In Old Norse, the name means staff-elf. This is reflected in his name Tharkûn, which is "said to mean 'Staff-man'" in Khuzdul, the language Tolkien invented for his Dwarves.